Ichi the Killer

[GeneChing]

Anyone seen this one yet?

Ichi the Killer is the epitome of comic book hero movies. Spiderman, X-men, the Hulk, Batman, Superman, they all miss the boat. Ichi is it. Very innovative filmmaking. Very edgy. It's brutally honest and I do mean brutally. This is not a film for everyone. It's ultraviolent and offensive. It makes Kill Bill look like Teletubbies, but no doubt, Tarantino will be ripping scenes out of this film for future projects. While Americans are waking up to Kill Bill, Japan is years ahead with Ichi.

Again, I do not recommend this movie for the squeemish at all. In fact, I'm not sure I even liked it. But there were some priceless moments, a lot of stuff I've never seen on film before, and I'm not sure that I'm happy that I've seen it now. But I will say the film surprised me several times, which is really uncommon in these days of tired formulaic plots.

[SanSoo Student]

I saw it, and it has to be the most violent, demented, and graphic movie I have ever seen.
The torture scenes are just plain sadism to the finest (not being a sadist, but from a movie critque point of view).
I still don't really grasp the pyschological aspects of the film, maybe because I'm not thet F**Ked up.
I will say that this film is very creative, you can see that with every violent scene, style and creativity are top notch in this film. The story is not for the faint of heart.

[Kristoffer]

Japanese movies are really interesting. They are light years ahead in the horror genre aswell. Just look at movies like Grudge (or Jue sumting as it's called in Japan), Dark Water, The Eye etc etc

Is there any trailers for Itchi?

[Kristoffer]

ttt

[GeneChing]

ichi trailer (http://www.ichithekiller.net/trailer/trailer_high.html)

I agree with SanSoo Student. Ichi is sick and perverse. But not as bad as the Sinful Dwarf or Cannibal Holocaust.

[Starchaser107]

why is japanese sub culture so perverse?

[Starchaser107]

booooooomboooclaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat staar.

just watched the trailer... that was ... i don't even have the words for it.

I think I want it though.:confused:

[SanSoo Student]

Kristoffer have u seen The Grudge?
I saw screen shots of it on ebay, and man does it look scary as crap, is it really that scary?

[SanSoo Student]

New link to the trailer that one doesn't work

http://www.the-associates.co.uk/images/trailers/ichithekiller.MPG
:eek:

[Shaolinlueb]

saw it. thought it was lame. the only thing cool about it was the violence. that kept me interested enough to see what he was gonna do next. i would only give it 1 star out of 4. nothing special. i wonder if the anime is as boring as the live action. there are way better takashi miike films out there.

[GeneChing]

Ichi was my first. Can you recommend his other works?

[Tak]

Originally posted by GeneChing
I agree with SanSoo Student. Ichi is sick and perverse. But not as bad as the Sinful Dwarf or Cannibal Holocaust. Grr, now you've got me kicking myself for not having watched that copy of Cannibal Holocaust I came across a few weeks ago.

[Kristoffer]

Kristoffer have u seen The Grudge?

No not yet, there's a movie festival going on here and I have tickets to The Grudge and The Grudge 2, about next week if I remember correctly. It looks scarier than The eye and that was pretty scary to me. I'm lookin forward to it

[Kristoffer]

oh n the itchi trailer... looks like it's just gory. Hmmm..

[Suntzu]

i have it sitting on my floor at home.... i watched the first 10-15 minutes to see what i was getting myself into.... i decided to wait until after the King Of San Da so i can sit down with a few drinks and bugg out over it.......

[GeneChing]

That was one of the most revolting films I have ever seen. Absolutely no redeeming qualities. And once you see it, you're ruined because you can't get that evil crap out of your head. I call it 'eye rape'.

[Shaolinlueb]

gene some of miike's other movies are

Fudoh : new generation *i recommend
Full Metal Yakuza *another good one
Audition
Visitor Q
City of Lost Souls
Dead or Alive
Dead or Alive 2
Dead or Alive 3

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0586281/
check out my list of stuff
http://www.automotivespecs.com/dvdlist.doc
I recommend any of the movies on my list except the last one or two i got for free.

[SanSoo Student]

I hear Cannibal Holocaust was banned in some of countries.
True? :confused:

[Kristoffer]

most of miikes movies suck. NEVER go see his Dead or Alive. NEVER, not one of them. I saw DOA2 and I want the the 2 hours stolen from my life back :mad:

sonnnofa...........

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by SanSoo Student
I hear Cannibal Holocaust was banned in some of countries.
True? :confused:


I dont know. :(


and yes most of miike's films suck. But they're funny and entertaining. all of em are B movies :D

[GeneChing]

My buddy who showed Ichi keeps threatening me with visitor q. He says I'm not ready. He's probably right. He also showed me Cannibal Holocaust, and Necromantic (I & II) - I'm not sure about CH but NI & NII were banned.

[Chang Style Novice]

(dons rain slicker and goggles)

I gotta Ichi trigger finger.

(anticipates barrage of rotting fruit)

[Kristoffer]

*splat*

[GeneChing]

I can tell from your current avatar that you ARE ichi. :eek:

[Shaolinlueb]

riki oh the story of riki owns all thsoe movies :o ;) :D

[GeneChing]

Ricky O was pretty fun. But I actually liked the Lone Wolf & cub/Baby Cart stuff better.

[SanSoo Student]

I just sae Ju-On: Grudge, it was a bit confusing, but the horror and suspense was really well done. Some parts were pretty funny, but the sound and atmosphere were set up quite nicely, Wayyyyyyyyyyyy better than the stupid Ring.

And I still can't find Cannibal Holocaust in any vid store near my house, anyone have a link to buy it cheap from a websit?

[Tak]

Speaking of B movies with cheesy gore effects, I just saw Meat Market the other day.

[Kristoffer]

SSS- good. I had hoped it to be better than the ring. aaah can hardly wait. I'm seeing it and the #2 right after another at a huge cinema this saturday (or was it sunday? hmmmm)

[Lucas]

So its been a couple years since i last watch this flick.

popped it in last night to remind myself of how wonderfully messed up this movie is.

i think its a good example of manga to live action adaption. not for the feignt of heart of course as its one of the most demented movies ever made.

anyone else like this movie?

Think you could take Ichi in a fight? :p

[冠木侍]

It's been a long time for me as well.

I remember getting lost in the plot and it was a very sick movie. I doubt I'll watch it anytime soon as I don't remember it having such a profound effect on me.

I'd watch Audition instead. :D

Unfortunately, I've never read the manga for Ichi. I will need to add the anime though on my list of things to watch.

[ghostexorcist]

anyone else like this movie?

Think you could take Ichi in a fight? :p

I like it, but it tends to get lost in itself. Not to mention him pleasuring himself outside that girl's apartment is a tad bit disturbing. I could have done without the close up of the skeet hitting the ground.

I would probably have an easier time with Ichi if he wasn't wearing his heal blades. In addition, I'd rip apart the jaws of that blond guy that likes to bite off peoples' hands.

[Lucas]

I could have done without the close up of the skeet hitting the ground.



lol no doubt

[Lucas]

ya they should have gone with wrist blades.

[GeneChing]

I'm morbidly fascinated by Miike. I just saw The Great Yokai War, which I enjoyed very much. It reminded me of Zebraman.

Ichi was incredible - harsh from the opening scene onward (what a way to do opening credit! ****!!) but I loved some of the twists in that film. It just kept going in unpredictable ways.

Is this going to be our Miike thread? We do need one here.

[Lucas]

I'm morbidly fascinated by Miike. I just saw The Great Yokai War, which I enjoyed very much. It reminded me of Zebraman.

Ichi was incredible - harsh from the opening scene onward (what a way to do opening credit! ****!!) but I loved some of the twists in that film. It just kept going in unpredictable ways.

Is this going to be our Miike thread? We do need one here.

Sure, can we change the name? or should we leave it?

Its funny because all of the characters, except for the ex cop turned gunman, are pretty sadistic messed up individuals. But I still find myself sympathizing with them and liking them anyway. Like Kakihara. Who cant love that guy!

[Lucas]

Just added The Great Yokai War, to my netflix que. Ill bump it up so i can have it next.

[GeneChing]

Let's see first if anyone else posts on this thread. It may just wind up me and you talking, Lucas. That would be fine. If nothing else, we can school the others in the wonders of Miike. Somehow I doubt that were alone here tho. I'm sure there are more Miike fans here, but let's let the forum take it's course.

I'd recommend Zebraman over Great Yokai War. I should mention that these are both kid films. That's right, Miike doing kid films. That's part of what makes them special. It's kind of like Dave McKean's work - he's done some really dark stuff, but then, he turns around and does these wonderful children's stories.

Zebraman will appeal if your a fan of tokusatsu like Ultraman, Rainbow Seven or Kikaida. I loved the original Kikaida so this one really hit home. It's a very well told story - funny, nerdy and ultimately quite satisfying.

Great Yokai War is more surreal, but it works better if you're familiar with Japanese children's fables like the Little Peach Boy, or Ukiyo horror art. I was raised on some of that, so things like umbrella demons, lantern devils and women with 50ft necks are par for the course for me. On that level, I found it pretty predictable, but if you don't know anything about it, it could be really way out for you.

[Lucas]

just added zebraman.

right now im also adding every Miike film i can on my instant que. I'll probably stream a few of these this weekend.

ill go with Masters of Horror, Takashi Miike: Imprint. The synopsis sounds really cool.

Have you watched Izo?

I also really liked Yakuza Demon.

Ive only seen a few of his flicks, but I think im on a crusade to watch everything.

[Jimbo]

I really like Miike's Gozu. Though it seems people either appreciate it or hate it; no in-between. It's essentially a Yakuza/horror/comedy, but comedy done in an understated, Miike way.

Ichi the Killer's a good film, but it's not one I watch too often. When I first bought it some years ago, I had thought Ichi was the bleach-blond torturer played by Tadanobu Asano, who's pictured on the cover. It is a wild, twisted movie, one of the weirdest I've seen. Ichi himself can almost be considered an onscreen monster like the Jasons and Myers and Kruegers, but with his characteristic perversions. The movie Ichi (or 1-Ichi) is a prequel to this film (not directed by Miike), and shows (mostly) how he came to become that way. The thing about Ichi's character is that he's a psycho (or a super-psycho). That and other reasons seem to make him superhuman and almost unstoppable, yet with a frailty, meaning violence literally gets him off.

I've had my eye on Izo at my local Best Buy, as it's sold there at a low price, but both copies there rattle when I lightly shake them (loose disc) so I'll wait 'til they get better copies.

I also saw one film that was a 3-director collaboration between Takashi Miike, Park Chan-Wook, and a HK director oddly named Fruit Chan. I forget the title, I think it's Three (something). It was a horror film of three separate stories, one by each director. Oddly enough, of the three installments, Miike's was the most subdued, Park's the most intense, and Chan's was unimpressive (IMO).

I like some of Miike's work, Gozu being my personal favorite. Probably my favorite of the current Japanese directors is Ryuhei Kitamura (Azumi, Versus, Skyhigh, Aragami). Though his and Miike's styles are completely different.

[doug maverick]

fruit chan is a well known horror filmmaker based out of hong kong, he has made something like 10 films over the last 13 years he is 49 years old.the only film i've seen of his was a movie called dumplings starring pauline lau an tony lueng(ka fai not chiu wai) fruits first american film dont look up is a remake and should be out next year.

[Lucas]

watched sukiyaki western django this weekend.

I had a lot of fun with this one. Quite a unique flick. At first I didnt realize in the opening scene that that was quentin tarantino.

[Lucas]

Izo is a fun one IMO. Nice pace to it, and lots of violence ;)

twisted story too

[doug maverick]

watched sukiyaki western django this weekend.

I had a lot of fun with this one. Quite a unique flick. At first I didnt realize in the opening scene that that was quentin tarantino.

yeah sukiyaki is one of those watch it once flicks, but cant watch it again. i liked it the first time although i wish miike got some better english actors or just put the whole thing in japanese.

[GeneChing]

The Sukiyaki Western Django (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52606) actually quelled my enthusiasm for seeing this. It fell down to the bottom of the 'to see' list.

[SimonM]

I have been fully convinced that Quentin Tarantino is the poisonous source of all that is bad in martial arts movies ever since two events:

1) Tarantino claims to PRODUCE Iron Monkey.

When what he really did was handle some cleanup of the subtitling, facilitated a bad recut and marketed it in the USA.

2) Kill Bill.

That movie was just f-ing awful. Seriously, I may be the only martial arts afficionado to say this but I will not bend. Kill Bill was a BAD movie.

The acting was wooden. The special effects were of inferior quality. The coreography was the worst that troupe has ever produced. The climax was highly anti-climactic and, for goodness sake, if you must have a "killer femmes" film PLEASE, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEPLEASE keep Lucy Liu AS FAR AWAY FROM IT AS POSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!

(Also Uma Thurman doesn't manage to present as if she could fight her way out of a paper bag and her use of a stunt double was ham-fistedly obvious.)

[Lucas]

ahh, its on the instant stream list on netflix so you can watch it any time if your a netflixer.

I thought it was neat.

a lot of people wont like it for the same reason they dont get into most Miike stuff I think.

Opening scene is cool looking. Background is paint and paper I think. very stage-ish.

also the intro of the main badass is rad. a guy draws a crossbow on him and fires, he draws his pistol, fires, shoots the bolt as the tip of it is a couple inches from the barrel of his gun. same bullet shoots the crossbow guys hat off.

IMO they captured the raw masculinity of the cowboy and matched it well with the iconic perfection of the samurai.

Samurai meets the old west.


I liked it.

[Lucas]

tarantino has pretty much nothing to do with this film other than probably being Miike's friend to land a quick spot in it.

[SimonM]

I still contend that he should have stuck to making American Crime movies and stayed far, far, far away from the martial arts genre.

[Lucas]

I still contend that he should have stuck to making American Crime movies and stayed far, far, far away from the martial arts genre.

lol ya. the best thing tarantino has going for him mainly is his taste.

You have to admit, he likes cool genre's and movies.

[Lucas]

the best part about kill bill were sonny chiba and gordon liu.

[doug maverick]

I have been fully convinced that Quentin Tarantino is the poisonous source of all that is bad in martial arts movies ever since two events:

1) Tarantino claims to PRODUCE Iron Monkey.

When what he really did was handle some cleanup of the subtitling, facilitated a bad recut and marketed it in the USA.

2) Kill Bill.

That movie was just f-ing awful. Seriously, I may be the only martial arts afficionado to say this but I will not bend. Kill Bill was a BAD movie.

The acting was wooden. The special effects were of inferior quality. The coreography was the worst that troupe has ever produced. The climax was highly anti-climactic and, for goodness sake, if you must have a "killer femmes" film PLEASE, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEPLEASE keep Lucy Liu AS FAR AWAY FROM IT AS POSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!

(Also Uma Thurman doesn't manage to present as if she could fight her way out of a paper bag and her use of a stunt double was ham-fistedly obvious.)

actually quentin tarrintino never claimed to have produced iron monkey, he presented it much in the way that he presented hero and george lucas presented kage musha when it debuted state side. another thing the acting in kill bill was pretty **** good so i would have to call you on that. the fights scenes however, the samurai stuff was not bad, but the kung fu was down right atrocious. and we could go back and forth all day on this, but the ending failed to live up to the movie, it sucked.

[SimonM]

the best part about kill bill were sonny chiba and gordon liu.

Sonny Chiba was grossly under-used.
Gordon Liu's character was also under-used. And <spoiler> he was murdered by Daryl Hannah in another Tarantino inspired casting disaster.

[Lucas]

for the paimei character though, who else could play paimei except the guy who fought him so much in the old days.

[doug maverick]

Sonny Chiba was grossly under-used.
Gordon Liu's character was also under-used. And <spoiler> he was murdered by Daryl Hannah in another Tarantino inspired casting disaster.

first let me say by this point everyone one on the board has seen the movie so the spoiler thing is not necessarry. second sonny chiba was actually just brought on to do the samurai sword training and choreography, his role was just a cameo role. so him him being under used in a cameo is kinda hard to do. i thought darryl hannah was a good casting choice considering that she was suppose to be the "anti-uma" so she worked perfectly. and also you mention lucy liu, she was great and bad ass in that role man, i guess its all a matter of opinion on that point, i mean i usually dont like her in action films at all, but the sword fight between her and uma was **** good, and i've seen much worse from much better. the only thing that killed this entire series for me was the end fight between david carradine and uma, i mean dave did a great job as bill in the acting perspective, but he failed utterly in the martial. if i was QT i would have just doubled him all the way through, that way you could've gotten more out of the character in terms of action, for Christ sakes the guy is over 70 and not like lau ka lueng over seventy he is over ****ing seventy you cant expect people to move to well. but anyway, there have been rumors of QT doing the whole bloody affair, which will link both films together with new footage, hopefully the whole sword fight on the beach will be added back to the script.

[Jimbo]

In Kill Bill Vol. 1, I thought Chiaki Kuriyama did an excellent job as Gogo, Lucy Liu's bodyguard. Esp. for a girl who claims to not be very competent in the athletic movement department. I'm just glad QT did not end up playing Pai Mei, that would've sucked big-time, and would've been the epitome of egotistical self-indulgence.

I thought the fight choreography in KB wasn't bad, considering that none of the main fighting characters besides Gordon Liu was actually a trained martial artist. But that's the trend; famous non-martial artist actors/actresses trained over a few months and being helped by CGI/wirework to fight in action movies. These types of action movies make a lot more money over a longer period than M.A. movies starring real martial artists (with a few exceptions). Fearless, with very good choreography/performers/execution made less money than either Kill Bill movie, any film of the Matrix series, and probably the first Charlie's Angels as well. All were fight choreographed by Yuen Wo-Ping and his team.

[doug maverick]

well it has alot to do with star power ofcourse, the ability to generate buzz, promotion and all that good stuff. i mean there are people who are stars who cant act o save their lives, but their movie gross major numbers, keanu reeves would be a big example, this guy is a walking talking peice of wood most of the time, the few exceptions where he showed he had some rage were, bill and ted series(yes i said it, go back and watch them not bad onreeves part) and the devils advocate. other then that its the same stiff as performances. but star power is what counts. you mention fearless in comparison to the matrix and charlies angels(ywp did not choreagraphy charlies angels btw) well the matrix and CA was in something like five thousand theaters and fearless was only in 700 so you can compare. compare it to something like crouching tiger hidden dragon, which ironically also didnt feature any martial artist, except maybe mechelle yeoh is you consider her one, other ma'ers were relugated to minor roles. but the film did huge numbers world wide, and was in about three thousand theaters in the us. so when doing those figures you have to take into acount, theaters, star power and studio promotion. all three will generate the outcome of a movies gross.

[Jimbo]

Thanks for the clarification on YWP and Charlie's Angels. Maybe it was Yuen Chung-Yan, his brother who choreographed it? Also, I thought I saw either Chung-Yan or Wo-Ping in a cameo at the very beginning of Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle.

I thought about pointing out that Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon had no actual martial artists as well. I wasn't aware that Fearless only played 700 theaters.

I saw one of Miike's films, Sukiyaki Dgango, in the DVD section while shopping at Target but it didn't look like my cup of tea.

[doug maverick]

yuen chung yan was the martial arts coordinator for the two charlie angels and he was also the one in the cameo in both films as well. yeah like i said alot goes into the success of a movie. some movies they test screen the **** out of before they screen it and then they figure out where to market. most martial arts films that are imports are regulated to big cities, because the fan base is there in big numbers, o mean its a proven fact going back to the seventies so why change a tried and proven formula. then there's religion most people along the bible belt consider martial arts a sin for whatever reason so you wont put your movie in one of those theaters would you? so that brings us back to big cities and big names, this is imports im talking about. see a movie like the matrix with all its religious subtext and its big names(mostly white) cast can get away with some things. its a weird conundrum, studios higher a lot of analysis and their not even a hundred percent right. for example the new vince vaughn reese witherspoon flick came out of nowhere had little promotion and did huge numbers beating projection by mind staggering numbers, hey it happens. while the day the earth stood still which was suppose to be critic proof did 31 million which is not bad but it is way lower then the estimated projection which i think was like 40-45mil.

[SimonM]

Yuen Woping really phoned in the coreography for Kill Bill which was wooden and uninspired even next to Charlies Angels (and certainly compared to the Matrix).

The actors selected for Kill Bill, without fail, looked clumsy when doing action sequences. And I just don't buy the killer schoolgirl schtick.

I don't know...

I think it's telling that the best part of Kill Bill was the cartoon... as, in reality, what Quentin Tarantino tried to do was make a live-action anime.

And it sucked just as bad as any other (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Ball:_The_Magic_Begins) live-action anime (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_Racer_(film)) made to date.

In other news, I'm amped for the new Dragonball movie! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonball_(film))

But, in light of my previous statements I'm not expecting high cinema.

[doug maverick]

Yuen Woping really phoned in the coreography for Kill Bill which was wooden and uninspired even next to Charlies Angels (and certainly compared to the Matrix).

The actors selected for Kill Bill, without fail, looked clumsy when doing action sequences. And I just don't buy the killer schoolgirl schtick.

I don't know...

I think it's telling that the best part of Kill Bill was the cartoon... as, in reality, what Quentin Tarantino tried to do was make a live-action anime.

And it sucked just as bad as any other (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Ball:_The_Magic_Begins) live-action anime (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_Racer_(film)) made to date.

In other news, I'm amped for the new Dragonball movie! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonball_(film))

But, in light of my previous statements I'm not expecting high cinema.

i dont know about phoned in. as someone whose done choreagraphy for both the screen and stage, i can tell you first hand that you have to work with what you got. plus there were all sorts of other problems on that set, according to alot of cast members qt was heavily involved with chorey why i have no ****ing idea. but whatever. i think your being cynical in your judgement of the film. i think it was a good peice of cinema very well written, the action was ok, the samurai stuff was great, vould watch that all day. the kung fu stuff was blah and looked rush and if you read carradines diary on the subject, ir was pretty rushed. the fight between vivica and uma was bad ass. the fight between her and darryl sucked nuts, the fight with the crazy eighty-eights. and lucy liu was top notched. dont give a f uck what you say. that was top notched ****, loved it can watch it over and over.acting was awesome, everyone did good jobs alll around. as for the dragon ball movie, eh. doesnt look that good to me at all, the martial arts looks for ****.

[Lucas]

the first fight between uma and vivica was really well done IMO. I think it was the best in the movie.

[SimonM]

the first fight between uma and vivica was really well done IMO. I think it was the best in the movie.

As long as you don't mind people sticking out their arms with the elbow locked and letting them hang there for seconds while they pose for the camera...

When knife fighting...

That's called "how to get your arm cut bad".

[Lucas]

for what it is though, a couple of chicks with no experience, it was an exciting fight scene.

sure after you watch ANY fight scene's enough, you can pick em apart. But I remember being highly entertained when that fight scene first played on the big screen.

[Lucas]

but of course this is coming from a guy (me) who is entertained by even worse fight scenes....shaw brothers comes to mind.

:D

[SimonM]

See I only really like the best.

Best actors + best coreography > best actors > best coreography > anything less than best.

[Jimbo]

but of course this is coming from a guy (me) who is entertained by even worse fight scenes....shaw brothers comes to mind.

:D

I can mention a great number of Shaws with far better fight scenes than Uma Thurman vs. Vivica Fox. :)

However, it pays to remember that movie fights are choreographed for drama and entertainment value, and not on what is or isn't tactically 'correct' in real fights. Just like Uma throwing her SOG Desert Dagger at Vivica would be a huge tactical mistake in real life.

[doug maverick]

yeah people keep forgetting that itsA F
UCKING MOVIE

[SimonM]

It's a FVCKING BAD MOVIE!!!

[doug maverick]

thats in your opinion and judging by the way you judged film aint worth a hill o beans. mostly because its extremely biased ad your in the minority on most of it. you know what i tell people like you go see if you can do better, cause i've worked with trained martial artist who couldnt. dont talk about it be about it.