View Full Version : Which Kung Fu style is the most well-rounded and fit for street combat?

07-01-2000, 01:31 PM
I have often which Kung Fu style is the most well-rounded and fit for functional self defense.
I would vote for Wing Chun, which I study, but it has no groundfighting technique whatsoever.
What do you guys think?

07-01-2000, 05:38 PM
Wing Chun has groundfighting.

"take the pebble from my hand"

07-01-2000, 06:22 PM
tell us more, please. go into detail of what ground fighting wc has

07-01-2000, 07:39 PM
Longterm I'd say modern longfist (don't laugh). It not only teaches basic self defense it's also make other styles easier to learn (crosstraining). As for teaching good self defense in the shortest amount of time I've found Arnis to be pretty efective.

07-01-2000, 08:08 PM
I believe my style is very well rounded for street combat, luckily I haven't got the chance to test it though /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

07-01-2000, 08:27 PM
As far as Kung-Fu styles go, I'd say, in a short time, Wing Chun (Which is also the style I study) I have to agree with Jo on this one, though. To my knowledge, Wing Chun has no groundfighting whatsoever.
Choy Li Futt seems like the best rounded and effective Kung-Fu style, though. I have never taken it, so I don't really know.
Shia Chiao (I forget the spelling) is a great art, also. Good for takedowns, throws, things like that.

Any coward can fight a battle when he's sure of winning.
-George Elliot

07-01-2000, 09:13 PM
thanks for that leon, very helpful


07-01-2000, 09:43 PM
Fut Sao Gu Yee Chuan Wing Chun Kuen's ground fighting starts in lotus and rerverse lotus and is adaptable to grappling and anti-grappling through it's Chin Na. www.buddhapalm.com (http://www.buddhapalm.com)

07-01-2000, 11:45 PM
It wouldn't help you much if my style was the best in the world (which it probably is not) because you would have to move to Norway to practice it /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
no offense meant

07-01-2000, 11:51 PM
Leon, what do you practice?

I am interested in western as well as Eastern martial arts. From possibly the first complete martial arts system, Pankration, down to oddities like cornish wrestling (alot like judo), cumbrian wrestling (a bit like BJJ mixed with Judo and Boxing) and Greenoch (The celtish native martial art)

What system do you practice, and what are its characteristics?

Thanks in advance,

07-02-2000, 01:04 AM
If I'm not mistaken, Leon practices
'Thái Cùc Hiêp Võ Môn KungFu'

Ah, the wonders of profiles. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Any coward can fight a battle when he's sure of winning.
-George Elliot

07-02-2000, 01:27 AM

[This message has been edited by CommonSense (edited 07-03-2000).]

07-02-2000, 01:48 AM
Oh no dude, don't go there!hehehe

Wing Chun has ground fighting, fighting to stand up!
The average 'Chunner is dead on the ground, but one time my mook jong fell over and...

With all the choices around, why would anyone be practicing a style that they didn't think was well rounded and efficacious?

07-02-2000, 02:04 AM
Change your name to uncommom sence,

I have done nothing but full contact my entire carreer as a martial artist. In and out of our school. I'm not afraid of anybody.
Unfortunaly you can't tap out of a broken leg.
There is nothing nervous about me.
Careful what you wish for.....

Where did I come into this thread? Why did you pick this thread to comment on me? When there are so many others to choose from. the put up or shut up post, the attn sifuabel post, the monkey kung fu post. Whats the deal?

07-02-2000, 03:38 AM
I thought "What's this? Is it Monkey Season?"

07-02-2000, 04:42 AM
Don't make Sifu angry, he might beat you with a monkey.


07-02-2000, 04:47 AM
Dont get ****ed at me now.....

I didn't make you a moron, that was your doing. You now, being dropped on your head at birth and all.

07-02-2000, 04:49 AM
**** this keyboard it should read
"you know" not "you now"

07-02-2000, 06:33 AM
Don't take your childhood out on me. It's not my fault you and your Mom have the same father.


07-02-2000, 12:18 PM
Hey Shenden...

You know Greenoch doesn't exist, eh? /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

But seriously, do you know of any celtic martial traditions?

07-02-2000, 06:29 PM
Whatever you say then guys.

"take the pebble from my hand"

07-02-2000, 07:50 PM
I went to the Buddha Palm wing chun site and there was no information there whatsoever on Wing Chun ground fighting.
I think you must be confusing a few Wing Chun techniques that translate to the ground with actual ground positioning, technique formulated ONLY for the ground (which is a range of combat all to its own and thus requires techniques that work off of a different set of principles and physics), ground reversals and submissions.
I have a thousand dollars that says your style of Wing Chun doesn't have all that, unless your sifu studied a grappling art and added it in to your Wing Chun.
This is the commona mistake that Kung Fu fighters and practitioners often make. They think they can take techniques and translate them to the ground and be good at ground fighting.
To be able to control an opponent on the ground you must learn specially developed technique that revolves around proper body positioning and movements.
I saw an article written by a Wing Chun sifu once entitled "Wing Chun for the Ground".
The article was laughable at best.
The article showed this wing chun sifu on bottom and a guy on top of him in the mount.
The pictures showed the sifu on bottom doing tahn sau's and biu saus and strikes to the guys eyes and that was the great "wing chun ground techniques".
What the article didn't show was how easy it would have been for the guy on top to merely scoot up a couple of inches on the sifu's chest and be completely out of range out of any of his strikes. From that positioning he could rain down freely with his own strikes to the guys on bottoms face.
And what the article didn't offer was any technique to reverse that postitioning.
So, with all this in mind, does your style REALLY have valid groundfighting technique (you could compete in a all grappling tournament with your Wing Chun ground techniques only), or are you just taking standing wing chun techniques and theories and applying them to the ground?

07-02-2000, 07:55 PM
Sifu Blabel,
You have already proven yourself to be a liar (your demonstrated lack of knowledge of groundfighting after claiming to know so much about it), and a keyboard warrior (by refusing to come participate in a open style grappling tournament), so go play with your monkey!

07-03-2000, 12:27 AM
hey jojism,

I never said I was strickly a grappler. You don't want a contest, you want some sort of bloodlust. For that you can come here.

kocho, is that a furry loin cloth? oops. no its your mama. LOL! just kidding your a great guy.

Its dangerous to think your immortal.

Water Dragon
07-03-2000, 08:00 PM
The best style for modern day in the streets fights is....

Whatever style you practice provided.

1. You are learning from a legitamate source
2. you are willing to put in the time and hard work (read: Gung Fu) to aquire those skills
3. You question and ponder everything you are taught so that you REALLY understan why it is done.
4. You test it out on other real fighters. I like boxers and wrestlers.


Although there are many styles, they all depend on the strong beating the weak and the slow falling to the quick. These are not related to the power that must be learned -- Taiji Classics

laughing tiger
07-04-2000, 08:49 PM
From what I've seen, most well-known kung fu arts are pretty darned all-encompassing. :-)

"If you care enough for the result, you will almost always attain it"

-William James

07-05-2000, 05:53 AM
Once again Water Dragon makes sense.

I coulda sworn Emil Bozteppe(?) reckons his style of wing tsun does grappling.However I'm probaly wrong.

So this is where JJ27 got exiled to.

Take it easy:-)

07-05-2000, 01:39 PM
concidering most of wc's blocks use deflection most of the techniques actually work easier on the ground then standing. most people dont class wc as having ground fighting as then you would ned to say groundfighting,stairfighting,wallfighting etc
but in answering the question unless you did all the styles(impossible no matter what people say) you could not say what would be best for you in the street. cause what works for you might not work for me. i like wc but im biased
see ya
the more you sweat in peace
the less you bleed in war

07-07-2000, 11:53 AM
What sifu Emin has done is to incorporate many ideas he has had with a background as a wrestler into wingtsun using wingtsun techniques and principles. The point is to be able to get off the ground and back up standing. There is no way to out grapple a grappler unless you practice grappling as much as he does.

Its all fun and games til someone loses an eye. Then its just fun.

unclaimed effort
06-04-2001, 05:23 AM
My opinion is that Tai chi is the most well rounded and fit for street combat. Once mastered you can release devastating power to rid of your opponents. Besides striking there are also joint locks, and throws. :)

If two tigers fight, the result will be one injured tiger.

Stillness in stillness is not real stillness. Stillness in motion is real stillness.

06-05-2001, 08:18 AM
Wing Chun does not have groundfighting. Give up your idea and move on. I hope you recieve your closure :) .

06-07-2001, 04:46 PM
Sometimes Wing Chun have ground stuff.
Check this out:


"Better have a chicken tomorrow than eggs today."

The Willow Sword
06-09-2001, 09:12 AM
the ancient art of ching ching POW!!!
if you dont have that then the ever so secret techniques of BAT kung fu,,,and if you dont have that then i would suggest that you go to master wang hung lo's school of takeyodo,,,for 49'95 YOU TOO can be ultimate street fighter!

in all seriousness i really like hsing-i chuan.
its no nonsense,,real simple,,,and will KILL you.
YES KILL YOU. you train long and hard enough with your will and your mind and your abilities to focus you can hit them in the right spot and f**k them up,,,,,i personally like Tank Abbots form of hsing-i......i would want to be an allie of his not an enemy.
many respects willow sword.
(and no tank doesnt do hsingi literally,,or does he?,,,,,the term does mean "mind will fist")

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.

the running guy
06-10-2001, 02:47 AM
The most well rounded style for street fighting is whatever style gets you through the fight without getting the s*** kicked out of you. Unfortunately, the only way to find out how well a style works in a street fight involves getting into a streetfight. Don't fight unless it is entirely necessary. Peace and be groovy.

Rolling Elbow
06-13-2001, 05:24 AM
Wing Chun or derivatives Ving Stun may claim to have ground fighting but they do not. Ground fighting refers to holds, escapes, locks, reversals from the ground. Sticky hands and lap sao, bong sao may be seen partially on teh ground but what happens when the arms are locked up. Nobody is good enough to say they'll never hit the ground in a society where people way 200 + pounds and can grapple or will drop you like a sac a potatoes.

But having said that, any of the kungfu systems can be effective if they teach hand speed, power striking combinations and general sensitivity. Who cares about the style. Blocks are blocks, limb destructions are limb destructions...if you can land em then you can argue that your style is as good as the next. That's all that matters. But in playing with the game, i would say Wing Chun, Southern Mantis, Tiger, CLF, Bak Mei seem to be quite adept and street fighting. the otehrs are of course too but something like White Crane from what i have seen might take someone a tad longer to use because of the concentration and principles involved.

Bottom line, don't think about it and just go all guns blazing be it on the ground or stand up

Michael Panzerotti
Taijutsu Nobody from the Great White North..

06-13-2001, 07:36 AM
"Wing Chun does not have groundfighting." -- G-I

"Wing Chun or derivatives Ving Stun may claim to have ground fighting but they do not." -- R.E.

Wow! Look at all the Wing Chun experts!!

Hmmmmmmm. Let's see. I've been doing Wing Chun for 10 years, and have never practiced any other art. I practice counter-grappling, joint-wrenching, ground escapes, clinch work, takedowns and ground pins -- all movements taken from the forms, and all principles found in the art.

Yup, you're right, Wing Chun won't help on the ground. I wonder what it was I was doing on the mat for three hours today getting my shirt all dirty? Ah well.

Oh: "but what happens when the arms are locked up"? I twist my freakin' arms properly to escape the hold. And yes, I've practiced this.

By your definition of "ground fighting", though -- no Wing Chun does NOT contain "ground fighting". It does, however, contain a heavy component of supine counter-trapping, body positioning to prevent joint-locks, escapes, and joint wrenching to remove holds.

The focus is different. I don't work positions looking for subs, I work escapes to get my @ss back to my feet.


Not to tire of learning is wisdom;
Not to weary of teaching is benevolence.
-- Tzu-kung

06-13-2001, 07:14 PM




Here's the matriarch of the munkey family.

06-15-2001, 09:14 PM
Those pics are hilarious :D . Ok, ok i'm sorry guys i'll rephrase. MOST WC does not have ground fighting. And i'm saying most because all the WC does not have groundfighting. You guys are the only ones that may have it in your system.

06-15-2001, 09:53 PM
If they practice JJ grappling for 3 hours, then you need to practice 6 hours of Wing Chun on the ground. Sorry, just read Ryu's post on his grappling Icon. =p Imagine training hardcore for 10 hours straight. Sheesh.

"If you and I agree all the time, then one of us is unnecessary."

SanSoo Student
06-16-2001, 01:18 AM
I think Kung Fu SanSoo is the best for street fighting/ combat situations. Unlike traditional fighting styles, SanSoo focuses only working up close with the opponent. SanSoo uses everything, eye pokes, groin strikes, etc.. What you might call cheap fighting

06-16-2001, 03:05 AM
>>>Sorry, just read Ryu's post on his grappling Icon. =p Imagine training hardcore for 10 hours straight. Sheesh.<<<

No kidding. Just when I thought I was training hard, I had to go and read that. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Not to tire of learning is wisdom;
Not to weary of teaching is benevolence.
-- Tzu-kung

06-26-2001, 04:30 AM
Welcome to the board San Soo Student! Who do you train under?

06-28-2001, 03:07 PM
Southern Mantis and street fighting.
I practice two variations of Southern Mantis Chow Gar and Jook lum (Bamboo Forest). All defence and attack techniques of these Southern Mantis kung fu styles, originate from one main stance from which the southern mantis system draws its strength. It allows a firm foundation for the dominant power and skill of the southern mantis kung fu system, and is used to manipulate an opponent's attack and to force an opening in the defence allowing for reprisal of lethal and devastating effect and permanent damage.
Bamboo Forest Temple Mantis Kung Fu Training Methods
This style of southern mantis kung fu is purely for street fighting, and is not designed to create the particular look of a bodybuilder It is a dangerous and cruel kung fu combat system, relying on internal power and external toughness, which is developed by training and refining the required muscle, bones and power areas in order to achieve the necessary results in every technique.

06-29-2001, 05:22 PM
JKD is the answer for all of your street fighting needs it has no forms, it is fighting stripped to the basics. there are no nonsense stances or ornate movements it is just pure unadaltered combat. Not to mention it was devolped for modern, down and dirty fighting.

old jong
06-29-2001, 06:29 PM
Oh yeeaahh??? ;)


06-29-2001, 07:35 PM
Ahahah AHAH AHah AHAh ah a

First those monkey pictures then someone referring seriously to "Greenoch." Wish I'd found this thread earlier!

(P.S. everyone knows the answer is bagua) :)

06-29-2001, 07:36 PM
"Unlike traditional fighting styles, SanSoo focuses only working up close with the opponent."

"JKD is the answer for all of your street fighting needs it has no forms, it is fighting stripped to the basics. there are no nonsense stances or ornate movements it is just pure unadaltered combat. Not to mention it was devolped for modern, down and dirty fighting."


this thread is rich

06-30-2001, 11:50 AM
Yea,I love it when all of the non WT/WC/VT people
talk about the non-ground-fighting aspect of what I myself have trained in.

Some of these other-style-armchair-experts that MAYBE have taken a class or two,read a book or they might have watched a video.

Whats also funny is when they tap-out a student level WT or WC/VT guy they have the art figured out.

Rolling Elebow,your art is very good on the ground,but I have seen enough black belts in the "Hatsumi" style beaten on THE GROUND by WT guys to know that if we sux,you guys really sux on the ground.

fiercest tiger
07-02-2001, 02:15 AM
i disagree, traditional kung fu works! i do agree that maybe some teachers dont teach students properly or havent been in a real life encounter to teach the students how to use their art!

see pad work, ground skills, knife, trapping, etc have come from traditional systems. the problem is that half the schools out there teach for 1 and 1/2 hrs, 30 minutes warm ups, 30 stances, punching the air (crap) then forms. see teachers such as myself teach 3-4 hrs a night and work on all aspects of the art. fighting is only 1 part of an art, health with chi kung and healing with energy and medicine is another.

jkd is a good street art but lacks in every other aspect of a REAL MARTIAL ART!! you may say well thats ok, all i want to do is beat someone up, thats fine, but thats no mastering anything. if you want to fight, put a punching bag in your garage get some mats, get some friends over and play around. get some skills and go out clubbing and pick a fight! i guarentee you will get beaten at one time... and may never be the same again! fighting is stupid, anyone can fight not everyone can be an artist!

just my thoughts :rolleyes:

come & visit us!

[This message was edited by fiercest tiger on 07-02-01 at 05:30 PM.]

07-20-2001, 01:22 AM
I think that a lot of the martial arts out there are fit for the street. It just depends on you being able to narrow down the most practical techniques such as elbows, knees, low/mid kicks, punches, locks/chokes. In a street fight situation, you would have to be a very good all around fighter meaning that you can fight on your back as well as on your feet.

07-20-2001, 03:48 AM
fiercest tiger said:
"punching the air (crap)"

Sorry but I gotta disagree with this. Boxers punch in the air when they're first learning technique and when they shadowbox. I guess their punching is cr@p too?

I think the main problem is that kung fu classes don't punch in the air enough, and not with enough attention to detail. Basics are what form the foundation of your kung fu. They are what you first use and will later fall back on when fighting. I think a lot of schools have a "let's cr@p through this so we can get to the more exciting stuff" approach about basics. Maybe basics aren't important in the style you study; but in my experience, those that didn't "punch the air enough" don't get comfortable with their techniques and don't really become good fighters. Most advanced techniques are built on the basics. Would a boxer be able to execute a flurry if he/she had not spent hours making sure they had proper technique on all their core punches? Doubt it.

Just my 2 cents, packing up my soapbox now.

07-25-2001, 03:13 AM
I found Praying Mantis or even White Crane works quite well.

Fear.....Fear attracts the fearful.....The strong....the weak....the innocent....
Fear is my ally

07-27-2001, 12:45 AM
Urban Fist is the ultimate streetfighting style that I and my student (Urbanfist, who is about to become a member) have taken extensive time to develop. To learn more, visit our website, which will be completed and posted under this forum at a later date.

08-01-2001, 04:27 AM
What a waste...

08-01-2001, 04:53 PM
i have to agree with lost_disciple about the "air" punches tiger. for one it builds a great deal of endurance after doing thousands of them. also, doing a punch thousands of times will help you to be able to do it the one time you need to in a fight.
it is true though that sometimes students aren't doing the punch correctly, over and over again. sometimes i will pair students up with muai thai pads (which are hard pads) and have them punch those after the workout from an actual fighting stance. this helps students figure out that there is something wrong with their punch since if they do not do, say an uppercut right, then they can go back and fix their punches and do them right when doing the "air" punches.

To know others is to have knowledge. To know oneself is to be enlightened.

08-01-2001, 07:25 PM
The best MA for the streets is "Gun-Fu!"

All the training consists of practicing the pull and release of a single index finger!

It's so effective that with that single finger, you can take out countless people standing all around you.

- Nexus

08-01-2001, 07:30 PM
Is that anything like dim mak?

The way of the samurai is in desperateness. Ten men or more cannot kill such a man. Common sense will not accomplish great things. Simply become insane and desperate. - Hagakure

08-05-2001, 11:11 PM
If you ask 100 martail arts practitioners which art is the best you will get 100 different answers.
The fact is all the arts are effective when practised on a daily basis.

08-07-2001, 05:35 AM
I suppose that is true...

www.namcoarcade.com/ (http://www.namcoarcade.com/)
Fear.....Fear attracts the fearful.....The strong....the weak....the innocent....
Fear is my ally...


08-10-2001, 06:01 AM
I suppose that it is the same, say, if you ask 100 martial artists what weapon is better. you'd get 100 different answers...

Fear.....Fear attracts the fearful.....The strong....the weak....the innocent....
Fear is my ally...


08-10-2001, 06:28 AM
considering the fact that i can guarantee that none of you are proficient in all forms of martial arts, i have to say that an objective answer is impossible, now a subjective answer...