A feeble attempt-I suppose it's worth a try

[trilobite]

Ok, if we can get guys like Serpent, Fu-Pow, Fred Sanford,MK, etc. etc. etc. etc. and the rest of the people in my system, I HOPE DEARLY that we can just leave this to rest. Just let us live in peace and more than likely we'll all end up being friends. We could learn so much from each other if we just shut up and stopped trying to get on each other's nerves like 7 year olds. Grow up and grow some balls guys. This is getting ridiculous and it's got me ****ed off that we're wasting time even posting on such ludicris debates. We all know by now that NO MATTER WHAT WE DO WE WILL NEVER PERSUADE EACH OTHER. Instead of making matters worse lets just do what this forum was created for and share our knowledge and experiences with one another.


God I hope this works. I'm sick of arguing with people. It's the BIGGEST WAIST OF TIME AND ENERGY ANYONE HAS EVER DONE!!!!!!!!!

In the immortal words of just about every body, "I mean, come on."

[MonkeySlap Too]

Ah, you see the argumnent is not presented because anyone wants to argue. It exists because at the heart of your position is an obvious, blatant, big LIE. And to the people on this boasrd who have dedicated themselves to CMA, they find that lie offensive.

I almost gaurentee that if we met in person, we'd have beers and whiskey, and get along just fine. I'm just that way. But I still would not accept the lie being propogated.

No biggie. At least you guys seem like normal guys, and not brainwashed like the OYD crowd...

FYI - based on what I've seen, on the web and in person, I really do not want to 'learn' anything from SD. Which for me is a pretty strong statement, but there you go.

[trilobite]

I don't care. I just want the fighting to stop. It's retarded and immature and we all know it.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Well, at times it is immature - but there is no reason to stop a reasoned discussion to debate a point. Which for the most part this is.

However, when it comes down to facts, that is where the SD POV starts to fall apart, so I can understand why you would want it to stop.

If you are tired of it, just ignore it.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by trilobite
I don't care. I just want the fighting to stop. It's retarded and immature and we all know it.
So is basing an entire system on a lie and expecting to get away with it.

You want us to share knowledge and experience? Well, 20 years of experience tells me that you guys are being sold a crock and I'm sharing that with you.

Besides, I've said before that if you can make what you're taught work and if it fulfills you, then that's great. Just don't call it something that it's not. The fact that I think it's technically and effectively useless is beside the point. You can do what you like, so long as you don't try to sell it in such a way that it demeans something that many of us have dedcated our lives to.

And as for not making any difference and no one changing their minds, why don't you have a chat with the poster Shaolin-Do, now known as Meat Shake. Ask him what's changed in his life recently.

[trilobite]

I nor no one else on this forum named it Shaolin Do.

I don't even want us to debate about it anymore. It always leads to a flame war. Isn't anyone else sick of it?

[joedoe]

I agree with MS2 - if you are sick of the argument, then stop reading the threads. At the very least stop participating in them.

I used to argue as fiercely as Serpent does, but after a while I realised that I was never going to convince anyone over the net, so I gave up arguing. I still check out how the argument is going, but rarely spend time responding any more unless I see something blatantly wrong being said.

But once I realised that I was not going to get anywhere in the argument and just let it go, my KFO life just became so much easier :)

[Serpent]

Originally posted by trilobite
I nor no one else on this forum named it Shaolin Do.

I don't even want us to debate about it anymore. It always leads to a flame war. Isn't anyone else sick of it?

So go away from those threads. Just ignore them if they bother you that much. Of course, if they do bother you that much then perhaps it's because deep down inside somewhere you know the truth...

[Serpent]

Originally posted by joedoe
I agree with MS2 - if you are sick of the argument, then stop reading the threads. At the very least stop participating in them.

I used to argue as fiercely as Serpent does, but after a while I realised that I was never going to convince anyone over the net, so I gave up arguing. I still check out how the argument is going, but rarely spend time responding any more unless I see something blatantly wrong being said.

But once I realised that I was not going to get anywhere in the argument and just let it go, my KFO life just became so much easier :)

I, on the other hand, have way too much time on my hands during the day. ;) That'll change soon, however.

And I would once again ask people to ask the poster Shaolin-Do, now known as Meat Shake, what his recent realisations and changes have been.

[trilobite]

lol

that's one of the corniest things I've heard a long time serp, good job:)

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

I think once the Shaolin Trademark will be enforced worldwide the debate will be settled.

And I expect a few respected(authentic??) heads to roll during that time, some already did in China.

In the end it is the Trademark holder who decies what is real and what is not, not a few guys on the Internet.

[themeecer]

Originally posted by MonkeySlap Too
I almost gaurentee that if we met in person, we'd have beers and whiskey, and get along just fine. I'm just that way. But I still
Hehe, I hope not. You would be giving alcohol to a minor there. :)

[Serpent]

Better that he drank whisky than swallowed bullsh!t. ;)

T'ai Ji Monkey - whose heads have rolled in China?

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

Originally posted by Serpent
T'ai Ji Monkey - whose heads have rolled in China?

No specific names given.

Check the Link (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=408050#post408050)

[Serpent]

Originally posted by T'ai Ji Monkey


No specific names given.

Check the Link (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=408050#post408050)

Hmm. Interesting stuff.

This amused me:



According to figures provided by the temple, 80 unauthorized kung fu schools in China have used the name Shaolin, and more than100 businesses, including those selling cars, beer, tires, furniture, and even wire, bear the Shaolin trademark, all without consulting the temple.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

what happened with shaolin do? running a search for posts but haven't found anything yet. im curious ... he always seemed alright.

[Fred Sanford]

will I stop fokking with the SDers?.........

I must go and seek direction from the white eyebrow council, high upon hua mountain, before giving you my answer.

it looks doubtful though. why don't you SDers just commit mass suicide? that would be totally sweet.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Serpent
The fact that I think it's technically and effectively useless is beside the point.

In this thread it is, but you created the SD techniques thread and then bashed the meecers approach to ground fighting. Another thread was created regarding SD practitioners techniques in specific situations. Have you read that thread? What of my post there? I find my techniques to be very effective and useful in my experiences.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by T'ai Ji Monkey
I think once the Shaolin Trademark will be enforced worldwide the debate will be settled.



Never happen. Public Domain.

[MasterKiller]

what happened with shaolin do? running a search for posts but haven't found anything yet. im curious ... he always seemed alright. GDA, he saw the light. Now, he's known as Meat Shake. Check his profile...no SD listed.

[Judge Pen]

The light or his bank account? His SC class doesn't charge, but his SD class did charge for lessons.

[MasterKiller]

I'm not going to expose anything unless he wants to do it himself, but he's taking classes from a well-respected person outside of his SC classes.

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by trilobite
Ok, if we can get guys like Serpent, Fu-Pow, Fred Sanford,MK, etc. etc. etc. etc. and the rest of the people in my system, I HOPE DEARLY that we can just leave this to rest. Just let us live in peace and more than likely we'll all end up being friends. We could learn so much from each other if we just shut up and stopped trying to get on each other's nerves like 7 year olds. Grow up and grow some balls guys. This is getting ridiculous and it's got me ****ed off that we're wasting time even posting on such ludicris debates. We all know by now that NO MATTER WHAT WE DO WE WILL NEVER PERSUADE EACH OTHER. Instead of making matters worse lets just do what this forum was created for and share our knowledge and experiences with one another.


God I hope this works. I'm sick of arguing with people. It's the BIGGEST WAIST OF TIME AND ENERGY ANYONE HAS EVER DONE!!!!!!!!!

In the immortal words of just about every body, "I mean, come on."

Here's my thing: I haven't got a problem with Shaolin-Do. Actually, that's not true. I haven't got a problem with you guys. Falsified histories, I have a problem with. But whatever. That's my problem. Not yours.

But if you're trying to "leave this to rest", "live in peace", and "end up being friends", perhaps telling your detractors to "grow up and grow some balls" isn't really the olive branch you were looking for to start the process.

In that sense, yes, this was a feeble effort.


Stuart B.

[MasterKiller]

What'd you expect from a 14-year-old?

[red5angel]

Tell them to knock it off with the fake history, and start worrying about practicing good martial arts and they will get my respect.

[Shaolin-Do]

Need to up my post count so I can use an avatar and sig under the name d@mnit... Bah. Lost my massive post count.
I left for a couple reasons. Anyone interested can PM me. A lot of the SDers do practice as hard as anyone else, so that argument isnt really relevant. R5, you dont even know the one true, Ving Chun™©, so you are wrong by default.
Notice that I not only have it trademarked, but copywrited. Fear me.
:eek:

[Judge Pen]

The history isn't going anywhere. No one in the system is going to advocate a change. Like it or not, SD is stuck with it.

I don't worry about history too much. I have my opinions, many of which I have expressed here, but I try to focus on training and being a good martial artist. Most good martial artists in SD do the same.

[Shaolin-Do]

WTF kinda stupid sh!t is this god ****ing ****it?!? Im logged in as meat shake and it posts as SD? ****! I hate this computer.
:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Radhnoti]

...I would love it if we were to drop the "shaolin" from the name, maybe the "do" while we're at it. I'll bet GM Sin wouldn't care either. It could even be worked into an "honoring the GM" sort of thing. The' family fist?
It not like I feel any sort of connection to today's shaolin temple anyway. It'll never happen, but approached properly it could be a good thing for our system, I think.

[Brad]

It's a Shaolin Do conspiricy I tells ya ;)

[MasterKiller]

SD,

Log out, then Log back In...

[red5angel]

R5, you dont even know the one true, Ving Chun™©, so you are wrong by default.

And you will not be able to log int apropriately until you relinquish your silly claims on the spelling of true Wing Chun. No need to copyright as it was passed down from my grandmaster, to my master, to me, so I am the only true spelling holder of the style.

[Meat Shake]

So you have copywrite by default. Touche, my friend, touche.

I have logged out and in. Stupid cookies.

[David Jamieson]

Well, in my personal experience, it is very hard to admit in yourself that you have made a mistake.

It's even harder when you have years in on something.

But, what is really key is to get over it and accept it as a true lesson.

It is the nature of people to not want to be seen as idiots or to have it pointed out to them. Hence, most arguments.

so, we have 3 sides to all arguments, side a, side b and ultimately the truth. So long as the "truth" is only one side's interpretation, it is never the truth.

True discovery can only be made when you free yourself of supposition and what others tell you is the truth. You will always be subjective, that is inescapable when regarding the self, but you can be objective based on cross referenced information and of course bitter reality.

cheers

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
What'd you expect from a 14-year-old?

Well, I think the intention was very mature. I kinda applaud him for that. It's just the execution that needed a bit of work.

Well, that and this foul mood I'm in. If that spilled over, my apologies.


Stuart B.

[Meat Shake]

14 eh? Quite the well spoken 14 year old. :)
Why the foul mood? Its a beautiful day here. Ill be 20 tomorrow. I get to celebrate by going to SC and taking a beating! Yay!
And GDA...

Best

Avatar

Ever.
;)

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by Meat Shake
14 eh? Quite the well spoken 14 year old. :)
Why the foul mood? Its a beautiful day here. Ill be 20 tomorrow. I get to celebrate by going to SC and taking a beating! Yay!
And GDA...

Best

Avatar

Ever.
;)

The foul mood is a long (and, I daresay, thoroughly unentertaining) story. But I agree with you. Trilobite is well spoken.

So my apologies again to him for being snarky.

And happy birthday to you, by the sounds of it.

[Meat Shake]

Thats tomorrow, but thanks :)
I havent decided wheather or not I feel like comming in to work tomorrow. Chances are I wont. :eek:
So... Yeah. Too bad I wont be 21. :)

[themeecer]

Happy birthday SD er .. I mean meat shake. PM me the details .. I'm curious to why the change. Shame you didn't make it to a Lexington tournament before the change. I was looking forward to hanging out with you at the last tournament.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

kung lek ...

It is the nature of people to not want to be seen as idiots

lmao

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

meat shake ... thanks and happy birthday.

[Meat Shake]

No problem, and thank you. :)

and thanks to kung lek for the new addition to my sig.
:)

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by Radhnoti
...I would love it if we were to drop the "shaolin" from the name, maybe the "do" while we're at it. I'll bet GM Sin wouldn't care either. It could even be worked into an "honoring the GM" sort of thing. The' family fist?
It not like I feel any sort of connection to today's shaolin temple anyway. It'll never happen, but approached properly it could be a good thing for our system, I think.

"Grandmaster The' is probably the ONLY PERSON in the world with a comprehensive knowledge of the Shaolin system. You should treat him in the same manner as you would treat the President of the United States or other world leader."



Uh yeah....right he wouldn't care. Then he'd have to give up the prestige of being the ONLY person who knows the ENTIRE Shaolin System.

[Radhnoti]

Fu Pow,

It's my impression that it's his senior students that put him up on that pedestal.
To me it's like some kind of weird, "I can show my teacher greater honor than you!" And so, ridiculous things that he could care less about get worked up as "this is an insult to our Grandmaster!"
JP mentioned the uniforms, and it's a perfect example (and only one of many). Some in SD say "it's a slap to GM Sin's face to not wear a gi!" And yet, Master Mullins got GM Sin's permission to wear the traditional Chinese clothing. I know a SD teacher whose students just wear gi (or similar) pants, club t-shirt and a belt. He asked GM Sin what he thought of this, GM Sin said, "I'll tell you what I think. Whatever the teacher thinks is good for his school...IS good for his school."

Lots of things, including much of what is said on different websites, is the result of some kind of SD senior student competition for GM Sin's attention.

...and that was me saying way more than I should about my seniors. :o

I'm not gonna erase it though. I heard JP was drinkin', throwin' around truth so I'm jumpin' on the bandwagon.

[joedoe]

Happy Birthday meat shake. Your birthday October 30 as well?

[Serpent]

Wow, some SD seniors are having a drink and telling the truth! There's hope yet.

Or course, as a great man said, "Those things we hold as true vary greatly depending on our point of view" (paraphrased), but there are certain inalienable, universal truths that can't be denied.

So, while your truth and my truth might be equally affected by our viewpoint, they are both necessary to point towards the middle ground in which the actual truth probably resides. Yin yang and the eternal balance.

But if you know that your truth is based on a foundation of blatant lies, how long can you hold on to it in all good concience?

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by Radhnoti
Fu Pow,

It's my impression that it's his senior students that put him up on that pedestal.
To me it's like some kind of weird, "I can show my teacher greater honor than you!" And so, ridiculous things that he could care less about get worked up as "this is an insult to our Grandmaster!"
.

Of course he did not complain when they did so.

And BTW, that quote was not off some obscure Shaolin Do branch website. It was directly of Shaolin-Do.com. Sin The's home webpage.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Fu-Pow


Of course he did not complain when they did so.

And BTW, that quote was not off some obscure Shaolin Do branch website. It was directly of Shaolin-Do.com. Sin The's home webpage.

That's not Sin The's home webpage. That's the webpage of the SDA which is run by some senior masters.

I've heard Sin The speak often and I've never heard the bravado that some websites attribute to him. If he is guilty of anything, it is, as you say, not complaining. Good or bad, he allwos much to be said about him and SD.

*pours another drink*

[Fu-Pow]

*Pours one for Fu-Pow*

Is it Friday yet?

[CaptinPickAxe]

IvE haddf onnewe to manyoi driiinks' areleday. *hic*

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Serpent
Or course, as a great man said, "Those things we hold as true vary greatly depending on our point of view" (paraphrased), but there are certain inalienable, universal truths that can't be denied.

Of course, he said that directly after being called on a blatant lie :D

[Serpent]

LOL.

:D

[David Jamieson]

words to the wise from the Buddha Guatama



'Do not accept anything based upon mere reports,
traditions or hearsay,
Nor upon the authority of religious texts,
Nor upon mere reasons and arguments,
Nor upon one's own inference,
Nor upon anything which appears to be true,
Nor upon one's own speculative opinion,
Nor upon another's seeming ability,
Nor upon the consideration: 'This is our Teacher.'
'But, when you know for yourselves the certain things are unwholesome and bad: tending to harm yourself of others, reject them.
'And when you know for yourselves that certain things are wholesome and good: conducive to the spiritual welfare of yourself as well as others, accept and follow them.'

cheers

[Bluesman]

I don't know if I accept that or not.

[Golden Tiger]

Originally posted by Fu-Pow


Of course he did not complain when they did so.

And BTW, that quote was not off some obscure Shaolin Do branch website. It was directly of Shaolin-Do.com. Sin The's home webpage.

The quote is from a overview/introduction to Shaolin-Do that was written in 1977 by Master Sin's most senior student. It is a very small part of a 6 or 7 page document that was designed to help new students understand the class rules, etiquit, etc. I am sure it was phrased the way it was because most new students in martial arts no little or nothing about it therefore you would use references that they are familar with to try to explain it to them.

I'll tell you Fu, you spend more time on our websites that I do! By the way, speaking of websites, you never did explain where the extra $240 dollars it costs to join your school for a year comes from. Perhaps instead of searhing our sites for errors, you should surf you own.

[MasterKiller]

I am sure it was phrased the way it was because most new students in martial arts no little or nothing about it therefore you would use references that they are familar with to try to explain it to them. Maybe, but using the president as an example is a little over-doing it. Perhaps saying you should show him the same amount of respect you show you school principal would be more suitable.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Maybe, but using the president as an example is a little over-doing it. Perhaps saying you should show him the same amount of respect you show you school principal would be more suitable.

Fair enough, but in these times the President receives little more respect than you garden-variety high school principal. Especially overseas.

[MasterKiller]

That's because he's an idiot with no competency for his job. You can't become a school principal just because your daddy was once one.

[Golden Tiger]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
That's because he's an idiot with no competency for his job.


That explains it all......MK is a liberal. It's all so clear to me now.

[dwid]

That explains it all......MK is a liberal. It's all so clear to me now.

Actually, while MK may be a liberal, his last post cannot be taken as irrefutable evidence of this. Given Bush's current approval rating, there are likely many many people who would not describe themselves as liberal who regard Bush the same way MK does.

Furthermore, given the sheer volume of people who, similar to MK, are suspicious of Shaolin-Do and its history, etc..., it is unlikely that there is any correlation between political beliefs and attitude toward that organization. Any apparent correlation is likely the result from the fact that many of our SD poster are from the south, and being from the south statistically increases the chances of them being conservative.

[Golden Tiger]

Originally posted by dwid


Actually, while MK may be a liberal, his last post cannot be taken as irrefutable evidence of this.

It was a joke. While I am a independent with conservative leanings, others political views are of no concern to me.



Originally posted by dwid


Furthermore, given the sheer volume of people who, similar to MK, are suspicious of Shaolin-Do and its history, etc..., it is unlikely that there is any correlation between political beliefs and attitude toward that organization. Any apparent correlation is likely the result from the fact that many of our SD poster are from the south, and being from the south statistically increases the chances of them being conservative.

The sheer volume you speak of is actually a very small sampling of the current number of registered users to this board.

N= 5,592
X= ~ 10

Actual % of those suspicious= 0.178 % +/- 3 %


Actually, the midwest is the area with the highest population of conservative voters (ie. the bible belt)





Gosh...am I really this bored??!!??

[dwid]

Gosh...am I really this bored??!!??

I kinda figured you were joking, but I really am that bored.

:D

[MasterKiller]

Actual % of those suspicious= 0.178 % +/- 3 % Actually, the number of suspicious is almost 100%, barring the recent influx from the SD camp. Only about 0.178% of those speak openly about it, while the other 99.822% laugh about you through PMs.

[Golden Tiger]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Actually, the number of suspicious is almost 100%, barring the recent influx from the SD camp. Only about 0.178% of those speak openly about it, while the other 99.822% laugh about you through PMs.

Actually, this particular forum is the only one that consistantly bashes SD. Having browsed through some of the others on here(ie. Southern, Mantis, etc.), there are some really good and pleasent exchanges of information and most the the SD posters are treated with the same respect as any other martial artist. While there may be many aspects of SD that you disagree with, why take it out on those that are just wanting to learn as much as possible and thought that this would be an excellent place to gain knowledge.

As for SD in general, "don't hate the player, just because you hate the game".

I'll admit, I come on here just for the fun of it but there are many SD students that come here seeking information. Exchange info without the bashing....you will catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

[MasterKiller]

Exchange info without the bashing....you will catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. I'm not trying to catch the flies, I'm trying to shoo them away. :p

FWIW, JP and Shaolin-Do a.k.a Meat Shake are the only one's who regularly contribute to discussion of technique. The others come here from your board to try and convince every else here that Sin The' and his claims are legit. Most of the longer SD threads have been posted by, you guessed it, SD members.

If you guys would quit trying to convert everyone, these discussions wouldn't be so drawn out.

[Golden Tiger]

I am not giving up on you yet MK. I know that sooner or later we will be great friends....

[Judge Pen]

. . . and when we forget about lineage and history, our discussions have been fairly constructive.

[CaptinPickAxe]

The whole thing reminds me of when the Christians tried to convert the Indians. Usually it won't work, but occasionally theres that one who doesn't have his blinders securely fastened and sees the light. I'm thankful I found this board as it pointed me out to a much better martial art (IMO). SO, Thanks KFO for helping me find Shuai Chiao and Sifu Kirk.


P.S. I'm not Christian:D

[Judge Pen]

And I'm not an indian.

There are a lot of good teachers out there. I am very happy with Master Mullins and his sons. If I hadn't hooked up with them, I probably wouldn't be training in SD.

I've been floating out in the world without a good teacher. I've experimented in other styles but couldn't find one I'm happy with. Of the different styles that I have trained, I've found the teacher made the largest difference in my training and not the lineage, history, or even the "core concepts" that define a style.

To rank the 3 best teachers I have had:

1. Master Mullins and sons -- SD
2. J.J. Tracey -- Aikido
3. Vernard Whitaker -- SD

CPA, I'm glad you have found a teacher and a style that fits you.

[MasterKiller]

How it is CPA just happens to be training with the same two Sifus as Meat Shake, a.k.a Shaolin-Do. I think someone forgot to log in/log out before they posted again. ;)

[CaptinPickAxe]

Thanx, JP.

And you know what? I don't care if anyone practices SD. diff'rnt strokes, diff'rnt folks. And I have to give it to SD, it sparked my love for Kung Fu. So I'm forever thankful for that.

[CaptinPickAxe]

nah, I'm his training partner. Its funny, really. SDers have to fight to prove their lineage. I have to fight to prove I'm not Meat Shake.:D

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by Golden Tiger


I'll tell you Fu, you spend more time on our websites that I do! By the way, speaking of websites, you never did explain where the extra $240 dollars it costs to join your school for a year comes from. Perhaps instead of searhing our sites for errors, you should surf you own.

Nice cheap shot Golden Tiger. Couldn't find anything else? Does our lineage make too much sense and doesn't have enough woolly chewbacca men in it?

Our monthly fee is $85 dollars. You can train up to 12 hrs+ a week(if you can actually handle it).

It costs $55.00 dollars for the uniform including sash, shoes (optional), t-shirt and pants.

All students are required to carry AAU insurance which is $25.00 a year.

Membership sign up fee is $20 which I guess goes to general school upkeep etc.

If you sign up for 3 months, 6 months or 1 year in advance you get some kind of discount. For 3 months its a free uniform, for 6 months to a year its %5 off tuition + a free uniform.

Don't try to paint our school as being a scam ya retard.

Our website is obviously in need of serious update.

[Judge Pen]

Fu Pow,

No troll, but how does rank advancement work in your school? You have sashes, so I assume you have rank as well. Do you test? Are there test fees too, or is it part of your monthly membership?

[CaptinPickAxe]

All students are required to carry AAU insurance which is $25.00 a year

Fu Pow,
Hey, I need Insurance. Could you PM me some info on it? I'm lucky I haven't been injured yet. (knocks on wood)

[MasterKiller]

Ladies and gentlemen of the supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider: this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk, but Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now, think about that. That does not make sense!

Why would a Wookiee — an eight foot tall Wookiee — want to live on Endor with a bunch of two foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense!

But more importantly, you have to ask yourself: what does that have to do with this case?

Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense!

Look at me, I'm a lawyer defending a major record company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca. Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense. None of this makes sense.

And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberating and conjugating the Emancipation Proclamation... does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense.

If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by MasterKiller


Why would a Wookiee — an eight foot tall Wookiee — want to live on Endor with a bunch of two foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense!



Maybe because Chewbacca has self-esteem issues, man.

[Golden Tiger]

Originally posted by Fu-Pow


Nice cheap shot Golden Tiger.

Don't try to paint our school as being a scam ya retard.

Our website is obviously in need of serious update.

It's about time you got back to me on that Fu. I was beginings to think that you didn't care about me anymore. Wasn't really a cheap shot at all. Just pointing out that the website contained some mistakes in it. I am sure had I actually come to the school and taken the classes, everything would have been straightened out.

Have a good evening everyone, I am out of 'ere

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by Judge Pen
Fu Pow,

No troll, but how does rank advancement work in your school? You have sashes, so I assume you have rank as well. Do you test? Are there test fees too, or is it part of your monthly membership?

Great question.

So in a school that has its basis in Chinese rather than Japanese culture there is no such thing as rank advancement.

There is a Sifu (father), SiHings (elder brothers) and SiDais (younger brothers.)

Who is a SiHing and who is SiDai has nothing to do with rank or skill. It is simply an indicator of when somebody started in relation to when another person started.

There is no way to differentiate who is a senior or a junior in the school simply by looking at them.

We all wear the same uniforms and we all wear a yellow sash.

There is a progression of forms through 8 levels, 3 sets per level.

There are roughly 2 weapons forms for every handset.

I think my Sifu knows around 30-40 forms so even when you finish the 8 levels you still have stuff to learn.

There are certificates you can get for each level. I don't have any of them because its not mandatory and I really don't care at this point.

I guess if I want to teach I should probably get them. My Sifu has been making the kids test but the adults aren't required to.

Any other questions?

[CaptinPickAxe]

I HAVE A QUESTION!

How can I get the same insurance you get?

[Liokault]

Didnt Chewbacca invent SD? I am sure some guy posted a pic of him as part of the SD line.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Fu-Pow


Great question.

So in a school that has its basis in Chinese rather than Japanese culture there is no such thing as rank advancement.

There is a Sifu (father), SiHings (elder brothers) and SiDais (younger brothers.)

Who is a SiHing and who is SiDai has nothing to do with rank or skill. It is simply an indicator of when somebody started in relation to when another person started.

There is no way to differentiate who is a senior or a junior in the school simply by looking at them.

We all wear the same uniforms and we all wear a yellow sash.

There is a progression of forms through 8 levels, 3 sets per level.

There are roughly 2 weapons forms for every handset.

I think my Sifu knows around 30-40 forms so even when you finish the 8 levels you still have stuff to learn.

There are certificates you can get for each level. I don't have any of them because its not mandatory and I really don't care at this point.

I guess if I want to teach I should probably get them. My Sifu has been making the kids test but the adults aren't required to.

Any other questions?

Everyone can agree that a colored rank scale is not "traditional" in CMA, but several traditional schools use them. Shui Chao for example. The shaolin temple is even contemplating some type of "duan" system as well.

So, fu pow you have certificates for each level (level being completion of a set of 3 forms per level: one hand set and two weapon sets. How do you know when you have completed a level? Do you need to display competency with the form? Is that just performing the form with proper focus, stance, power, pacing, spirit and alingment? Does the levels alos include being able to take the techniques introduced in the forms and show some type of application of the forms wither in a two man routine or in free sparring? Does you teacher set aside a time in class to review your material before teaching you the next set of forms or does he just tell you that you are ready from his overall observations in class?

Why does he make kids test as opposed to it being optional with adults? Are there test fees for the kids?

I'm curious how a different school does these things and how that has been modified for us goal-oriented Americans with A.D.D.

[joedoe]

Originally posted by Judge Pen


Fair enough, but in these times the President receives little more respect than you garden-variety high school principal. Especially overseas.

He got plenty of respect when he came to visit. He and his entourage showed little respect to the Australian people though.

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by Judge Pen


Everyone can agree that a colored rank scale is not "traditional" in CMA, but several traditional schools use them. Shui Chao for example. The shaolin temple is even contemplating some type of "duan" system as well.

So, fu pow you have certificates for each level (level being completion of a set of 3 forms per level: one hand set and two weapon sets. How do you know when you have completed a level? Do you need to display competency with the form? Is that just performing the form with proper focus, stance, power, pacing, spirit and alingment? Does the levels alos include being able to take the techniques introduced in the forms and show some type of application of the forms wither in a two man routine or in free sparring? Does you teacher set aside a time in class to review your material before teaching you the next set of forms or does he just tell you that you are ready from his overall observations in class?

Why does he make kids test as opposed to it being optional with adults? Are there test fees for the kids?

I'm curious how a different school does these things and how that has been modified for us goal-oriented Americans with A.D.D.

Our school is pretty small so Sifu Mak works pretty closely with all the students. He knows their level of competency and when they are ready to move on to the next form.

So for most adult students there is no formal "testing." It's like "do your form...ok you got it....you can start learning the next form." It depends on the person too. Sometimes if a person is not naturally athletic or not a quick learner he will make them spend some time perfecting the form before they move on. If they are "gifted" he'll just keep advancing them until they hit something that's difficult for them.

Sifu Mak does not spend a lot of time on specific application. I actually wish he would do more. However, this is not unique to my teacher. Most tradtional CMA teachers do not give you a lot of application. They expect you to learn the movement correctly and work it out for yourself. I think this is because a specific movement can have several applications and your preferred application will vary with body type.

Sometimes when I'm working on a applications with people he will point out flaws in my application and show me a simpler and more straightforward way to apply things.

I've been trying to introduce some other sparring drills into the class from my other experiences but I have been reprimanded by my teacher for doing so. I'll explain. Most sparring drills are of a "block and counter" nature. This is not a good way to train CLF. CLF is an agressive martial art who's basic premise is to "strike hard and strike first" and basically overwhelm your opponent with a succession of up to 10 continous techniques. There are blocks of course but they are usually launched simultaneously with an attack.

We do have continous free sparring and two man drills in our school. I've been considering competing in San Shou and encouraging others to do so because we are usually disqualified from continuous sparring because of the aggressive nature of CLF. I'm bragging now but one of our teenagers actually knocked out a TKD kid twice his size at a recent tournament .....and he wasn't even going that hard.

Kids are given test because they tend forget material easier. Having a formalized test makes them remember better. Also, kids are more wanting of something like a certificate that gives them a physical sense of achievement. Testing fee is $20 which includes a really nice certificate on quality paper and a patch for there sash. We are talking about kids as young as 8 years old.

Any more questions?

[themeecer]

Originally posted by Fu-Pow
Sifu Mak does not spend a lot of time on specific application. I actually wish he would do more. However, this is not unique to my teacher. Most tradtional CMA teachers do not give you a lot of application. They expect you to learn the movement correctly and work it out for yourself. I think this is because a specific movement can have several applications and your preferred application will vary with body type.
If I had said this about SD I would have been attacked on here about how a real teacher would teach you the applications. How it is impossible to figure out the applications by yourself.

[Skummer]

Originally posted by Fu-Pow


Sifu Mak does not spend a lot of time on specific application. I actually wish he would do more. However, this is not unique to my teacher. Most tradtional CMA teachers do not give you a lot of application. They expect you to learn the movement correctly and work it out for yourself. I think this is because a specific movement can have several applications and your preferred application will vary with body type.



I would not attend a school that teaches this way. Not to say it doesn't work or anything, but if I'm gonna pay somebody to teach me MA, I wanna learn the actual techniques as they were intended. Once I've learned them, then I can modify them for body type, etc.

In fact, I think I'd drop the forms altogether unless I felt I was actually getting something from doing them.

[Ralphie]

If I had said this about SD I would have been attacked on here about how a real teacher would teach you the applications. How it is impossible to figure out the applications by yourself.

Don't take this as an attack, themeecer, but I don't think SD peeps have ever been criticised regarding how they define applications. It has mostly been that their applications lack substance. That is, there are no foundational requirements present, so applications are incomplete. KEEP IN MIND, this is not saying your apps can't be effective, but is saying they could be more effective if you had more complete knowledge of that particular style. Also, so you don't feel compelled to say it, it is well known you are able to ascertain these foundational requirements just by learning the forms.:D Not that you're a kung fu genius, but the 64 rules of ba gua were present in your forms even b4 you knew of the 64 rules...
*tries hard not to :rolleyes: *

[joedoe]

Originally posted by themeecer

If I had said this about SD I would have been attacked on here about how a real teacher would teach you the applications. How it is impossible to figure out the applications by yourself.

No one ever said it was impossible to learn the applications by yourself. All that was said was that if you have a good teacher to guide along the path of learning the applications then why not make use of their skill, experience, and knowledge. Why re-invent the wheel?

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

Originally posted by themeecer

If I had said this about SD I would have been attacked on here about how a real teacher would teach you the applications. How it is impossible to figure out the applications by yourself.

In my style you are shown a few of the possible applications the rest you need to discover for yourself.

A good teacher will help you find them and correct them if needed or show a better and simpler way of doing things.

OTOH, the principles of the style are taught and not self-discovered.

[Golden Tiger]

As for applications being taught, I would have to agree with most that IMHO the ratio of time spent learning a form to actually applying the techniques is skewed way to the side of the form. Most teachers that I have studied with , including myself, place more emphasis on the form and I am not sure why. Applying what is taught within the form is really the whole point of learning it aside from the conditioning gained.

I think what happens sometimes is that the teacher feels that since he figured out what to do with this move and that one then the student should also. That is fine because it makes the student sit back and actually have to disect the movements inorder to find the meaning of them. But on the other hand, I have looked at a movement over and over and never seen what it could be used for only to have my teacher come up and say "oh, use it for this".

I think that a basic set of techniques should be given as supplemental training to the form to more or less give you a push in the right direction. It also gives you another point of view that you may never have thought of. So, if you are a teacher, consider this the next time you teach out a form and if you are a student, ask.

[Judge Pen]

Fu Pow,

Thanks for indulging me. I think your teacher runs a very traditional school and the way he teaches applications through forms are similar to the way my teacher does. Respects,

JP

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by themeecer

If I had said this about SD I would have been attacked on here about how a real teacher would teach you the applications. How it is impossible to figure out the applications by yourself.

There is a fundamental difference here that you are missing.

True, Sifu Mak expects you to figure out the application of movement from the forms. This is the traditional way. However, when you come up with some application he will also correct you.

He has intimate knowledge of the system from training and fighting with it for 40+ years. So he can evaluate your application and go "look here...this won't work very well...here's something that works better and is more in line with the core principles of the style. It might not look exactly like the form, it's simpler but it's something that I've used in real life."

The truth is that forms are more of a way of passing on information in a condensed way. Sometimes, aside from the forms, there are simpler ways to fight using your style that only an experienced teacher can show you.

(As a side note, traditionally in Chinese kung fu schools, they would expect you to warm up and condition on your own. The teacher would show you some movements and then expect you to practice those over and over until you had pefected them before showing you anything else. This is very different from the current 1-2 hr class schedule, forms collecting and rank advancement. Then the teacher might ask you to demonstrate something and he would correct your form and/or your application. )

Cheers.

[Meat Shake]

I understand what you are saying. Sometimes I will figure out and application and be working it, and sifu will notice that Im doing it wrong. Not "wrong" but adding steps into it that make it more difficult than it needs to be. Simple works.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

we dont do forms but a lot of times our sifu will show us a new technique and go over applications the following week.

if you complain he starts ranting about it not being paint by numbers and kicks you in the jimmy.

[Meat Shake]

"if you complain he starts ranting about it not being paint by numbers and kicks you in the jimmy."

I bet the childrens class gets pretty brutal.
:eek:

[fa_jing]

I don't know about you guys, but if I don't know at least one application for every move I'm doing in the air then I feel like it's a waste of time.

Then again Wing Chun applications are pretty easy to figure out....

[themeecer]

Don't take this as an attack, themeecer, but I don't think SD peeps have ever been criticised regarding how they define applications.
I know I have personally been criticized about this on here. I mentioned one single move out of an entire long form that I wasn't sure of its application and I had a couple people tell me that is a mark of my teacher being a bad teacher.


True, Sifu Mak expects you to figure out the application of movement from the forms. This is the traditional way. However, when you come up with some application he will also correct you.
Ok .... ummmmmmm, I never said that my teacher didn't correct our applications either.

I still can't believe that Fu-pow is not attacked for this and I am the poster child for attacks here. That is so hypocritical.

[Fred Sanford]

you just don't get it, do you meecer? as the saying goes, ignorance is bliss. you must be one extremely happy mofo.

[themeecer]

Originally posted by Fred Sanford
you just don't get it, do you meecer? as the saying goes, ignorance is bliss. you must be one extremely happy mofo.
You're right FS, I don't get it. I don't understand why many of you act less mature than the 3rd graders I taught yesterday, and take pleasure in trying to bring others down.

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by themeecer


I still can't believe that Fu-pow is not attacked for this and I am the poster child for attacks here. That is so hypocritical.

That's cause I don't have any Wookies in my lineage:D

[Meat Shake]

My karma ran over my dogma.