How has your view changed?

[apoweyn]

Lots of people here have been training for years and years. I started at about 13 years old. And I'm 32 (is that right?) now. Obviously, my views on most things have changed considerably in the past 19 years. And my view of martial arts has been no exception.

There have been a couple of posters here (e.g., Red5Angel and perhaps Meat Shake) who have gone through a shift in perspective as well.

So what's changed? And why? Age? Experience? (Obviously, yes in both cases. But elaborate.)

Did you realize your school was a crock and go looking for new experiences? (That's one from my own experiences. Not a jab at anyone here.) Did your teacher undergo a shift in perspective and bring you along for the drive?

What mattered then? What matters now? Blah, blah, blah.


Stuart B.

[Suntzu]

this is a tuff off....... i have to get back to u on this one...

[Meat Shake]

Hmm... Good question.
First off... In my younger days (8 years old - 16 or so) I tried TKD, tried Hapkido, tried BJJ... didnt really care for any of them. Started SD a year and a half ago or so... after a few years of being a complete bum... I wanted to learn death touch and all that crap when I first started... Learned quickly however, that it was close to useless. I hunted forms for the first few months... then realized that it was pointless. Started SC about 3 months ago... My SD training was kinda conflicting with the SC, due to light contact sparring and certain sweeping aspects from SD... I was a little low on cash as well. Stopped SD... Shortly thereafter, I found a Chen style Taijiquan teacher, named Sal De La Rosa. Bad mofo. Decided I couldnt miss an opprotunity to train with such a talented person, and I am now training under him as well as Sifu Kirk. Kirk trains for free, solely for preservation of the art, and I gotta say, hes a d@mn fine sifu. Sifu Ryan (My SD sifu) was a great sifu as well, but I just didnt feel that the SD was working for me quite as well as a more specified style would.
A lot of my views have changed because of, beleive it or not, this forum. :eek: Kinda opened up a new can of worms for me, made me question things a bit more. (Also have to give WD props for letting me know there was SC here in town ;) )
My views have changed considerably even since a couple years ago... More than age Id have to say its due to experience and being open minded. Always remain open minded...

[apoweyn]

Good reply. Cheers MS.

[Meat Shake]

Ahoy hoy, matey. :)
Im sure I could have written more, but Im busy looking up the etymology of profanity. We have to write a paper on a personal problem for english, So... I chose profanity. :eek: I figured hey, Im in college, I can cuss in my papers. Why not write a paper about my problem with cussing so I can cuss a whole lot in it? :D

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by Meat Shake
Ahoy hoy, matey. :)
Im sure I could have written more, but Im busy looking up the etymology of profanity. We have to write a paper on a personal problem for english, So... I chose profanity. :eek: I figured hey, Im in college, I can cuss in my papers. Why not write a paper about my problem with cussing so I can cuss a whole lot in it? :D

That, my friend, is oddly brilliant.

[fa_jing]

Well, back in the day I though TKD was a superior art - I mean your legs are much stronger than your arms, right? And we always schooled the Shotokan guys in point fighting, 'cause they couldn't deal with our kicks. I practiced for about 2 years...Then I f'd up my knee and had to stop...I didn't practice MA for 9 years. When I saw "Lethal Weapon 4," I wanted to do all those cool stop kicks and such like Jet Li. I started up with a guy that was living in the same house as I was....a real character. I saw some cool concepts in Wing Chun so I bought the whole line, including GM William Cheung's shady style transmission story. That lasted for 6 months then I moved. Later after a long search, I found a good 7* mantis school that taught mantis 4 days a week and Wing Chun on Wednesdays. But the mantis class began to suck, it was traditional and hardcore and such, but Sifu Kwan wasn't allowed to teach the class for some legal reasons, and although his appointed Sifu did a pretty good job, his senior student was a total ass. They wouldn't teach me the form, yet expected me to know it. Everytime I asked something, it was "go sit in a horse stance for a few minutes, then I'll tell you the next move." The Sifus "punished" the students for not lining up and not putting enough effort and such - the punishment was no sparring for months. Then we were doing punative pushups collectively, and the senior student kept bashing my arms, not respecting the fact that I have nerve damage in one wrist. The class was geared to teenagers and I ain't taking sh!t from one, even if he could kick my ass at the time. So I guess I learned not to waste my time on something that wasn't oriented towards me. I learned some stuff and moved on after 6 months...decided to study semi-privately with the Wing Chun/JKD sifu...Found out that Chueng's wing chun is by no means the best wing chun. Also found that modern training methods with equipment and heavy sparring with 16 oz. gloves was the way to go as far as becoming a better fighter. I found out that training in sweat pants and forgetting about class heirarchy and si-hing this and Da Mo that was a more more beneficial way to train. I also found that thinking about movements in both Western and Eastern terms was the way to go for me, personally.

[Meat Shake]

Yeah... It was either that or smoking herb, which Ive cut down significantly. I dont like writing serious papers either. I like to write funny papers. Im better at it. :)
Anyhow....
TTT

[red5angel]

Experience is a lot of it. I have worked with some people who have some incredible talent, and some who haven't. Some of those were worth working with regardless of talent, and some were not. What I think it has come down to for me is that I got into the martial arts because I thought it was "cool" meaning I had no real reason for doing it.
Now a days it has become more of a lifestyle thing, has introduced me to alot of other things in the world, Eastern philosophy and culture being big ones. Used to be I didn't know what pursuing the martial arts really meant for me but along the path I started to get a picture and find myself where I am now. Of course all things change and over time I imagine my goals and outlooks will change more but for me things have taken on more substance.

[apoweyn]

By the way, Red5 and MS, I hope you don't mind my mentioning you by name.

[MasterKiller]

LOL....mentioning by "name."

Reminds me of the line from Boogie Nights, during the interview movie they shot. Marky Mark says, "I'm not Brock Landers. Brock Landers is a character I play. I'm Dirk Diggler." Both were made up screen names. :p

[Meat Shake]

lofl.
Dirk Diggler. Great porn name. There is an arena in round rock called the "Dell Diamond" arena.... If Dell Diamond isnt a porn name, I dont know what is.
:eek:
Brock landers... bahahaha...
Jesus... porn names are funny as ****. :D
And Ap - No I dont care. :)

[red5angel]

No problem Ap, actually you and a few others have been around through a couple of transitions for me. I call them transitions because now that I am older and wiser in the ways of martial arts:rolleyes: I can see that many people go through several of the phases I went through. There is a source to these sorts of attitudes and it's basically what bothers me most about trying to follow the martial way.
to many people out there in positions of responsibility, instructors "masters" "grandmasters" etc..willing to perpetuate the idea that anything but what they know must be inferior. too many people willing to try to tout what they have as the answer to all your martial needs.
What I have come to learn is that there is no complete art, no set of secret techniques that allow you to stand undefeatable by all other martial artists. That anyone can take just about any art, and if they have the will and the drive to learn, can make it work for them. While good teachers are a large contribution to how good you are, only you get to decide whether your good or not. You put in the time, the effort and the concentration and you WILL be a good martial artist.


As for you Ap, I owe you a bit of thanks for sort of being an internet guide without being aware of it. Your levelheadedness and open mind to the martial way has always given me pause to think about the things I am involved in, studying and what not. MP contributed alot to that as well, and a few others I just haven't named. Sorry to get all touchy feely, go back to kickin ass and taking names.

[yenhoi]

So what/where/who are you studing from now?

Last I heard it was SPM/MMA?

At least your not a WC Forum troll anymore.

:confused:

[fa_jing]

Red5: clean out your PM's, you focker.

[Meat Shake]

FOCKER!

Hey, how do I change what it says below my name? I forgot.
;)

[MasterKiller]

User control panel, Edit Profile. You have to wait 7 days from the time you sign up, though.

[Jowbacca]

Hey, I figure I'll bite. A lot of folks I know probly already know this one; and if the wrong people read it, they may get ticked, but what the he||.

Started when I was 16, after my friend/idol blasted me a good 4 feet with a no-inch / taiji brush knee push kinda thing. Hooked up with the guy he was studying with at the time before my friend moved on to the Fillipino MAs.

Trained with that first sifu for about 2 years in a bunch of stuff. Focused mostly on competition Taiji, hsing yi (wang shu jin style I've heard), and somewhat of a melange of animal styles. At the time I wanted to be a fighting Jet Li. Worked on tons of flexibility and acrobatics, cuz I could do a lot as a skinny 16 year old. My sparring was no-pad slap fighting. Got stomped one day by an older classmate who decided to get more serious about his training and lost all my confidence fighting wise. Thought I knew it all, cuz that was the attitude of the teacher. Still remember most, if not all, of the forms I learned (36); the hsing yi and 24 taiji really stuck with me.

Went off to college (unwillingly), got real depressed, gained a ton of weight, and didn't have a school. Tried out a JKD school for a couple classes, but the teacher decided to turn a focus mitt session into a no-pad freespar situation. Guess he was tryin to spank me to convince me I needed the class; but all he connected with was a single leg kick so it just ended up giving me a bad taste in my mouth.

Got a co-op in another town, and got a reprieve from college for a little while. Hooked up with a mantis school when I was down there. Realized that it hurts to start over more than it does the first time around. First trip was 6 months, and was almost in shape by the time i left. Went back to school to get out of shape for another 5 months before goin back on a second trip. Second trip was almost a year and a half and went through the same experience again.

As before, I was learning tons of forms. Got a feeling of superiority because of the "grandmasters" that I was meeting through various seminars at the school. Sparring was a bit more involved; but about the level of continuous sparring at tourneys. Wasn't really getting in shape the second time around. The training sessions left me seriously sore & overtrained; my diet wasn't much help either.

Never quite felt like I fit in at the mantis school. Started getting on KFO back then & I liked reading up on a lot of stuff. I KNOW I talked waaaay too much sh*t online back then. I think my interest in history, theory, etc made some of my classmates think I was c0cky; eventho I talked decidedly less at the school. Think I knew back then that it wasn't right for me but didn't know how to process it.

While I was still with the mantis school, I worked out with a Shuai Chao school once a week for a few months towards the end of my co-op stint. Really liked working out with the Shuai Chao people; all the people in the class were real advanced and a tight group. Was really intimidated about free wrestling with them at the time. Wish I could've stayed there longer; good group and I may have found my niche.

Went back to college to graduate. Hooked up with a Taiwanese guy the last 4 months before graduation. He fought in King of San Da in China. We hung out like everyday. Was posting a lot; which probably means I was talking a ton of sh*t but it was my first real experience with sport fighting and I liked it a lot. The training was more geared to helping my friend than developing myself, so I didn't feel completely immersed, but it was at least exposure; plus I was finally starting to get in shape again.

Graduated with nowhere to go. Hibernated at my folks' place in San Antonio for the next 6 to 8 months. Got more out of shape than ever before; eventho I was occasionally hitting the gym and working out with Martialduolos from here. Spent too much time on the net, reading and posting. Didn't know where I was gonna go- where I was gonna live, where I was gonna work, what I was gonna do martial arts wise.

Eventually I got a job and moved to the East coast. Been here just over a year and a half. Hooked up with a traditional school and got back into the swing of things....again. After a year of not feeling like my shape was improving any, I figured something had to change. Also started realizing that I wanted to fight full contact & actually practise stuff like I was gonna use it with full intensity.

Hooked up with Suntzu and Julio & fixed my diet; haven't regretted it since. Got in a lot better shape with more confidence. Seeing both sides of the issue that I thought I'd understood through various internet arguments years before was eye opening. Resolved the old Traditional vs Sport Fighting arguments for myself.

I still do lion dance and hit up my traditional school pretty regularly; because they're family & I just like doing it (especially lion). While I go through bouts of frustration with the kung fu school; or overtraining at the gym; I do think I've found my niche. I don't have the old "crisis of training" every few months that I was getting with just training forms & tournament sparring. I also got friends to go film stupid joke movies with after training. :D

I've gone from being your typical traditional purist to having a more "moderate" standpoint. I think there's reasons to train forms if you want to. I think there's good stuff that can be used in traditional kung fu. I also think styles are more of an individual thing- that people are fluid, they grow, and they need to exploit their strengths. So I don't see the point of not using something if it works, if I can use it, and if it makes me a better fighter.

I think belonging to X-type of traditional kung fu is more about family, loyalty, morals, ethics, philosophy, etiquette, and principles rather than what stance you fight out of, only training exactly what was trained hundreds of years ago, only hanging with certain people, and only attending certain events.

Realized that cuz "so and so" could fight back in the day; or because "grandmaster X" was visiting my school twice a year; or cuz sifu fights real good was no excuse for me not to see what I could do. I really had some insecurities at always having to point to someone else's ability.

Went from being a guy who kept using the "well the ring isn't the street" argument; to realizing that "the street" didn't make any sense for me; personally, to base my training around. I'd rather avoid a street confrontation at any cost; and I've never had any as an adult to begin with.

I realize that I'd prefer to have a skillset that was only used in a ring with specific rules & that knowing what I could do in that ring was enough to quiet those insecurities I'd always had at the other kung fu schools where the training wasn't based around competing full contact.

Another thing that came about as a result of the gym was the concept of no longer having to wait until someone told me it was "okay" to start training to fight. In kung fu there was this perception that sifu would someday tell me I was ready to start training to fight and until then just train what i was doing. Of course, waiting for your coach to say you're ready for a competition's a different story; but it was nice to find out that the training wasn't reserved for 5 or 10 year advanced students.

First fight's in a week and a half. Coming off a bad bout of overtraining & undereating last weekend and I just hope I'm where I need to be in time for the event.

Sorry for the long post. Not trying to pizz anyone off, just relating some personal experiences. I'll let yah know how it goes.

[Meat Shake]

No need for apologies. Good insightful post.

[red5angel]

fa_jing, my pm is clean....now.


Yenhoi, yep training MMA, mostly BJJ and Muy Thai for competition. I do one day a week of Praying Mantis for fun. From time to time I try to pick up a wingchun class just to keep that up as well but it doesn't happen that often.
The BJJ and MT training have taken up a lot of my time now a days and when I am ready to start competing it may take up a little more but I am enjoying the hell out of it.

[CaptinPickAxe]

Hey, Meat Shake, Way to steal my sig, you *******.

[Meat Shake]

Sorry.
:(

Hey... Something just occured to me... Why dont people call you captinpickass instead of captin pick your nose or other gay things when attempting to make fun?
:confused:

Edit: Holy Krav! Oh Maga! Do some reading on the stuff before tonight so we can make that broad feel dumb.
:eek:

[CaptinPickAxe]

the same reason people are too dense to realize your name portrays you worst habit.:D

I'll read up on it, but I know all this broad will know is what she learned watching that J-Lo movie.

[Meat Shake]

"realize your name portrays you worst habit."

That could be conceived many ways. Shaking my junk for money(stripper) Blending people chunks into icey smoothie goodness, or simply put, masturbating.
:eek:

[CaptinPickAxe]

LOL

regardless, I'm still going to eradicate you and all that you stand for. NOBODY, I repeat, NOBODY steals my sig and lives to keep posting.:D

[Meat Shake]

You have shamed your anscestors and will now ritualistically commit sebuku.

[Oso]

good question and a lot of good personal stories.

I've always trained with other stylists, mostly karate guys, so I've never had the 'my style is best attitude' bu the biggest change for me has been the realization that this is a big ole' huge world with a lot of martial arts and artists and that you have something to learn from all of them.

this place and the people here (well, most of them anyway) have been a big influence for me as well.

oh, and this too:



Did you realize your school was a crock and go looking for new experiences?

not the information necessarily, I feel my old sifu could still teach me stuff. But the presentation and all the hoopla that started to become the daily thing instead of the training.

[apoweyn]

Red5,


As for you Ap, I owe you a bit of thanks for sort of being an internet guide without being aware of it. Your levelheadedness and open mind to the martial way has always given me pause to think about the things I am involved in, studying and what not. MP contributed alot to that as well, and a few others I just haven't named. Sorry to get all touchy feely, go back to kickin ass and taking names.

Hey, thanks mate! I appreciate that.


Stuart

[Ray Pina]

Isshin-Ryu (4 to 13) was my foundation, gave me ability to move well.

Hung Gar/Wing Chun: Hung Gar never impressed me much, a few unique ways to generate power but was more of a form thing in my eyes. Wing Chun was a priceless stop! Learning trapping and sticking.

S. Mantis was another very valuable stop. This group just fought, that's all we did. Learned the extreme importance of going in, meeting the foe with momentum. Also learned how to judge a technique's merit by testing it. After a while you can just see, you know right away.

Present(Hsing-I, Ba Gua, E-Chuan): This is a most amazing stop. Kind of turned my martial arts upside down. Learned how to really generate power, how to really coordinate the entire body. Have finally met this thing called chi that I heard about and supposedly was building since I was a kid.

Next stop: Next month I will begin focusing on weapons!!!!

[joedoe]

I used to believe all the Shaolin mythology, but now I am more skeptical. Not that I don't believe it, but that I take it all with a grain of salt now, at least until I have the time to read up on the research myself.

I also feel more inclined to touch hands with other MAs to see how my art stands up against other arts. I used to be happy to train for the sake of training. Now I like to find out about other arts and how my art addresses the techniques/philosophies other arts.

All this from spending a few years wasting time on KFO :D

[Oso]

I used to believe all the Shaolin mythology, but now I am more skeptical. Not that I don't believe it, but that I take it all with a grain of salt now, at least until I have the time to read up on the research myself.

amen to that.

I think you accept most of the stories for what they are: historical legend.

kind of like a historical drama.

"Based on Historical Events"

[Serpent]

This is a great thread. And who says that arguing on the net is worthless! ;)

[Royal Dragon]

Hm, for me tradition and lineage under recognised teachers were the thing I guess. I was never able to really do it though, and eventually learned you really don't need that if you have people to test ideas with.

I've also learned most of the people I have been around are full of it in one way or another.

I have had people talke bout propper position,and found they have no idea WHY it's propper. I've been around those who talk of structure, and alignment, but when you look at THIER striucture it's not what they are preaching. Like they say the back should be stright, butt in, but when they hold a horse stance they have a sway-back going in the lumbar region. When you point it out, they say "No I don't" when it's plain as day.

I've seen guys who talk and talk and talk about how hard they train wile in a high horse when I'm in an Iron Chair actually doing it.

I've seen guys Go on and on and on about how tough their fighting is, only to find out they only do light tag sparring.

I've seen guys who boast how "Hard" they are, only to see them cry and wine because you hit them too hard.

I've seen guys go on and on and on about thier Mastership, and thier titles, and thier secet inheritances, only to find they BS'ed about it all and the people they suposedly learned form tell you they were nothing but minor players.

I've seen guys who look so legit it's not even in question, only to find they really don't have ANYTHING to do with Chin Woo.

I've found guys who cliamed to have learned one style for marketing purposes, then they turned to Taiji Hsing I and Bagua, and passed it off as the style they supposedly know.

I have seen entire systems who have maybe a dozen forms spring up dozen"Z" in a generation, all of whch are suposedly original.

I've seen suposeldy "Pure" styles with stuff mishmashed in from anywhere all "Willy nilly"like

I've seen schools who teach the forms, just to memorise the sequence, but NEVER the applications in combat, or exercise. They go to San Shou for that because they really don'tknow the apps, and don't have the creativity to decipher them right anyway.

Ive seen Masters hold so much "Knowledge" back that what they teach is pretty much nothing more than Yoga or areobics.

I've seen arguments about techniques where I have posted what I have ACTUALLY done, and everyone thinks It won't work and i don't know what I'm talking about.

I've seen people "Talk" about respect, and honor, humility and vertue, only to be the most arrogant, stuck on them selves, ego driven *******s I have ever met. Many are just LOOKING for reasons to be insulted,and will get all indignant at the slightest thing. A good example is when Monkey Slapp's phone messed up and called me waking practially my whole house up at like 2:30 Am. I made a humurus thread about it, completely toung in cheek, didn't even get mad about it, and he gets all ****ed off and posts something to the effect of "Don't ever contact me or anyone from my group again". You see this stuff all the time in Martial arts. Across ALL lines styles and systems


I've gotten to the point where I really don't care anymore. I've lost my lust for this stuff, it's all bull sh[i]/i]it. And every thing every one knows, doesn't mean jack because there is allways someone else who knows how to defete it. All I care about is the Qi Gong now and I already know more than enough of that to last me a lifetime. I don't want teachers, I don't want studnets and I don't really give a rats ass anymore.

[apoweyn]

Royal Dragon,


A good example is when Monkey Slapp's phone messed up and called me waking practially my whole house up at like 2:30 Am. I made a humurus thread about it, completely toung in cheek, didn't even get mad about it, and he gets all ****ed off and posts something to the effect of "Don't ever contact me or anyone from my group again". You see this stuff all the time in Martial arts. Across ALL lines styles and systems

Come off it, mate. This thread was proceeding nicely. How about not using it to air your dirty laundry.

Thanks.


Stuart B.

[Suntzu]

I think belonging to X-type of traditional kung fu is more about family, loyalty, morals, ethics, philosophy, etiquette, and principles rather than what stance you fight out of, only training exactly what was trained hundreds of years ago, only hanging with certain people, and only attending certain events. WOW...... well said.......

[Jowbacca]

Ap
FYI, you know you MP and ST00 have been great influences for me (not just sounding boards :) ) as well.

BTW- I think EvoFist was continuing his sifu-jock-riding, hung-gar-bashing, self-aggrandizing streak before RD started poppin off. Just to be fair...

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by Jowbacca
Ap
FYI, you know you MP and ST00 have been great influences for me (not just sounding boards :) ) as well.

Man, this is the feel-good thread of the year! Cheers Jow.


BTW- I think EvoFist was continuing his sifu-jock-riding, hung-gar-bashing, self-aggrandizing streak before RD started poppin off. Just to be fair...

Granted. I knew, reading EFist's post, that it was going to be one of his 'I'm getting the real deal' posts. But if he believes that, then it still speaks to his change in view.

Same with Royal Dragon. He did a fine job of discussing his disillusions and didn't really need to get so specific as to name a fellow KFM poster. That's for those two to hash out.

I'm not the forum police, mind you. I'd just hate to see what has thusfar been a really good thread break down into a running battle between two individuals.

Know what I mean?


Stuart B.

[yenhoi]

I dunno ap.

When I was a lurker I thought RD was a sap. Then I saw 7* talking to him, so I thought he must be cool. But over the last year, despite 7*'s favor, RD has proven to be a sap.

I dont get it.

Pagans.

:D

[red5angel]

Yenhoi you pagan.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Royal Dragon

I've seen people "Talk" about respect, and honor, humility and vertue, only to be the most arrogant, stuck on them selves, ego driven *******s I have ever met. Many are just LOOKING for reasons to be insulted,and will get all indignant at the slightest thing. A good example is when Monkey Slapp's phone messed up and called me waking practially my whole house up at like 2:30 Am. I made a humurus thread about it, completely toung in cheek, didn't even get mad about it, and he gets all ****ed off and posts something to the effect of "Don't ever contact me or anyone from my group again". You see this stuff all the time in Martial arts. Across ALL lines styles and systems


This is why I get upset. You just called my teacher, and friend, an @sshole out of the blue. WTF?

Anyway, I'm in the process of figuring out that a lot of people just don't want to do what I do. And that's OK. And no matter what I say, or what I try to point out, people are going to act and do and say and think what they want. And that's OK too. It's better for me to just have a big cup of STFU and train.

[red5angel]

well said WD. It's tough when you have a real interest in something and you look around and see a whole lot of people messing it up. All those so called "sifu" and "masters" and those that create their own styles or know the secrets to others.

Wingchun opened my eyes to how martial arts has really beomce the victim of misleading marketing. Walked into just about any wingchun school and you are going to hear how it is a "womans art" meaning you don't have to be big and powerful to use it. I understand where that ideal sprang from, but for the most part just about everyone I have touched hands with who was significantly smaller then me, really didn't have a chance.
What happens when that "small person" who has been studying wingchun for a little while is convinced he can take the guy who just threatened to beat him up. What happens if you are a woman and you decide wingchun has finally made you able to walk down those dark streets alone? It's stupid and irresponsible but that doesn't get past the fact that it sells.

[yenhoi]

The general public will be stupid and irresponsible no matter how much quality training some of you elites have.

h20: STFU and train.

:confused:

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by yenhoi
I dunno ap.

When I was a lurker I thought RD was a sap. Then I saw 7* talking to him, so I thought he must be cool. But over the last year, despite 7*'s favor, RD has proven to be a sap.

I dont get it.

Pagans.

:D

RD's not a bad guy, we just have conflicting views when it comes to MA... very conflicting views.

[SevenStar]

I started MA when I was 6 - I didn't have any view on it. My parents put me in it. I had a choice between that and gymnastics, and I chose MA. so I was enrolled in Chuck Norris' school in va (one of them, anyway. I went to their website, and my old teacher from all those years ago is still there)

When I was 9, I stopped, and when I was 12, started working with some friends of mine who trained in tkd and one who trained kung fu. I was a bully's bully back then - when my friends would bet bullied, I'd track the bully down and beat him up. I continued trying to practice on my own during that time, but really got into lifting weights.

What really changed my perspective was when I was a senior in high school. There was a guy at the gym - one of the trainers - who had a bb in tkd and a brown in both jjj and judo. he started training me in judo. The same year, I met a guy named yuichi kurokawa...he's one of the most awesome MA I've ever met. he grew up in japan, training karate all his life, with some judo. We trained constantly before he moved back to japan. We trainded hard and sparred hard contact - I developed a taste for it then. I entered some point tournies, and even though I would win, it wouldn't be without getting points taken for excessive contact. After Yuichi moved to back to Japan, I found MT. trained in it, kali and jun fan for two years and had some fights. loved it. Training with yuichi gave me the thirst for it, and MT continued to quench it.

I stopped MT because the school closed. I wandered into a longfist school, where I stayed for 4 years. I learned alot, but I definitely preferred MT. And I wanted to go back to fighting full contact, which wasn't gonna happen there, because nobody was willing to train me for it. I ended up hooking up with MSToo's group and also continuing my judo and starting bjj. That brings me to where I am now. the bjj school now has a great MT teacher, so it's likely that I will drop by it at least once a week, likely on tues, after judo and bjj. I've always liked to train hard and compete, and sport fighting fits that bill for me. Yuichi and I still talk, and we're like something you'd see in an anime or the movies - we train hard, then get together after a few years to see how far we've come along. It's my turn to see him, so Hopefully I can get to japan soon.

[Musicalkatachmp]

Realized that cuz "so and so" could fight back in the day; or because "grandmaster X" was visiting my school twice a year; or cuz sifu fights real good was no excuse for me not to see what I could do. I really had some insecurities at always having to point to someone else's ability.

A-phu**ing-men

[Kempo Guy]

I’ve been involved in MA in one form or another for the last 26 years. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately) I moved a lot which allowed me to experience a wide variety of arts. I’ve always had an affinity for MA and trained wherever and whenever I could. Many times I didn’t have a choice as to what I trained in, as there just wasn’t much available where I was at the time so I trained where training was available…

My first introduction to Martial Arts was in Kendo and Judo when I was six years old. Since then I’ve been around the block training in a TKD, boxing, Kyokushinkai, Traditional Jujutsu, Kempo, Neijia , JKD, BJJ and tried a few other arts… so yes, I’m a dabbler. Some of these arts I trained in for several years (none of the ones listed have I trained in for any less than 1.5 years).

In the beginning I trained because my friends did and it was just “fun”. Being a kid that’s all I cared about. .
During my teens and early twenties getting rank became a little more important and the vigorousness and the physicality of training (that is how much physical exertion was required for the workouts) was what I looked for, hence my Kyokushin and Kempo training (believe it or not my Kempo was really harsh training). Training to fight (or learning how to “fight”) was still not an issue. I figured it was a by-product of good hard training. When I got involved with Neijia (which was sort of by accident) I got intrigued with learning proper body mechanics, relaxation, and some of the health aspects. Since then I’ve kept my interest in body mechanics, principles of movement etc. My buddies, who were all into various “functional” martial arts, got me started in BJJ and JKD/C. This type of training opened my eyes as to what is a “workable” technique… however it’s not really my cup of tea. I neglected to mention my training in Jujutsu, which occurred while I was part of an exchange program to Japan (I also trained Kyokushin while there). This gave me my first taste into traditional JMA training, which created an on-going affinity with these arts.

Since my initial experiences with a traditional Japanese art / dojo I have wanted to continue my studies in these arts (and never had the opportunity to do so until the past year and a half). Applicability in self-defense at this stage of my life is of minor concern. What I am concerned about is training in something that can be practiced regardless of age. An aspect that is important for me is that the chosen art has good biomechanics with sound principles with efficiency in technique. Learning an art that has had few changes over time and being able to continue the lineage in an accurate manner offers great value to me as well.

I also feel that the study of budo (or other martial arts for that matter) is more than the study and memorization of physical techniques, but rather the study and preservation of a cultural “treasure” (art). This study should include language, etiquette, culture, history (at least as it relates to the art you study), and of course technical application of your art. I say these things because to not educate oneself about the culture and etiquette from your arts country of origin limits ones ability to properly interpret the original intent and meaning of ones chosen art, imho. I guess a large portion of my interest revolves around the subject of Hoplology - the study of the evolution and development of human combative behavior.

Another interesting aspect of training for me is what the Japanese call "Ningen Keisei", character building. The main principle of this being ‘perseverance’, i.e. never giving up even when discouraged. So in essence, your training is about unceasing training... How you practice the art rather than what one practices, is the primary purpose of training. Obviously in this instance what I practice is of some consequence.

And finally, the training has to be enjoyable! This particular part of training has never changed.

Luckily I’ve found a place where I respect the teachers and the fellow students. The camaraderie in our dojo is awesome. It is a sogo bujutsu (a comprehensive martial curriculum consisting of unarmed and armed techniques) and I hope to be studying this for a very long time…

Sorry for the long post guys.

KG

[apoweyn]

Sorry for the long post?!

Don't be. It was a good read.

[Meat Shake]

"I'm in the process of figuring out that a lot of people just don't want to do what I do"

I figured that out after about 7 people have stopped by our class... None have stayed. Still only Gene, Me, and CPA.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Meat Shake
"I'm in the process of figuring out that a lot of people just don't want to do what I do"

I figured that out after about 7 people have stopped by our class... None have stayed. Still only Gene, Me, and CPA.

getting thrown isn't most people's idea of fun. Neither is getting owned. We have similar probs in judo, bjj and mt.

[Meat Shake]

Yeah... People give me funny looks when I talk happily about getting slapped in the face and thrown on the ground.

[rogue]

What I've come to realize is that no matter how hard or how long you work at something, no matter how many repititions, no matter if you finish exhausted and hurting, if what you're doing is crap, it'll still be crap and will always be crap.

Quality of instruction makes such a difference. :)

[Christopher M]

Well... they fired Debbie Matenopoulus in 1999 and replaced her with Lisa Ling. Frankly, a change for the better. But Lisa is gone now, so it's gonna change again.

[CrippledAvenger]

I've gotta say, this board's change my opinions in a totally different fashion. I used to think that I was a through-and-through WMA guy. The CMA camp seemed to be full of pompous windbags and nice people who just didn't train as hard as I wanted.

Then, I started playing with Shuai Chiao guys and getting a taste of some good stuff. Not mind blowingly "touch-you-in-the-chest-and-your-liver-explodes" so, but nonetheless, these guys hit as hard as any boxer I'd met and the throws.... jesus, those throws! These guys were good. So, as a result, I've been training with them and slowly, I've been overwriting some of my previous notions of CMA.

Unfortunately, while I've been lucky enough to meet some fantastic gung fu guys, I'm still convinced that a sh!tload of people AREN'T training their arts properly, aren't training smartly, and are just perpetuating the same nonsense that leads to CMAs losing functionality. However, for all the schmucks, there's at least 2 or three people starting to "Get it", for the lack of a better term. There's hope for CMAs yet.

[Volcano Admim]

oh change o views

the views they change

about martial arts: imho a waste for people my age
we got better to do

i dont care who disagrees, its the truth
i wont get into details - wich i realise then course leaves you areas to argument with me, but if i took the time to go into detail, no way you could argument against me on this

overview:

martial arts take a big time of life one could be having more fun or searching for happiness whatever wherever it is - if yours is mainly in martial arts then ok
most peoples isnt, mine isnt
i stopped giving a fock about how hard i can hit or not, i dont give a fock
martial arts havent stopped being fun, its just that there are things a lot more fun

if i want to get in shape i go to a gym - its more effective than MA in doing such - plus its got way more hot chicks

the self defense part - takes just way too much time of training for something you might only use like very very very few times in your life, that is IF you ever use, and its gonna be for very few minutes, not to say seconds...
training years and years just for that moment? id rather give the money (that why carry few when rolling down the streets).

LIFE - there is studies, there is parties, there is chicks, there is traveling... so much things id rather spend my time much more than martial arts

thank you

[Volcano Admim]

i will quote the great band Carcass:

"Really done it now, sold out
But to who, what, when, where and how,
Yeah, really done it now, sold out,
I've taken my cut
And corporate rock really sucks"

[Volcano Admim]

why not Pantera


Revenge
I'm screaming revenge again
Wrong
I've been wrong for far too long
Been constantly so frustrated
I've moved mountains with less
When I channel my hate to productive
I don't find it hard to impress

[Royal Dragon]

Volcano Admim


Ahmen Bro!!

[Meat Shake]

Unless you train like 35-50 hours a week, you should have more than enough time for everything else.

[Royal Dragon]

I take it you don't have kids.

[Meat Shake]

Jesus no. I turned 20 like 3 days ago. Fock all that. :)

Edit: But time spent with kids is the equivalent to the time I spend going out.
Unless you are divorced, then you gotta go ass fishing too.

[Royal Dragon]

LOL!!!, Kids are way more work than that Bro. Besides, how often do you go out from 5-9 on weekdays? Wait till they need someone home to supervise their homework and stuff. Once your a family man, it literally takes a concious effort to neglect your family to train any respectable amount of time.
I think the only way to realisticaly do it would be to open a school, and have your kids do their homework in the office after school before your classes start.

The other option is to put your Kid in a competetive gymnastics club,and they will be too buy training to notice your not there. But then your neglecting your wife, and at some point you will find she's been doing some guy wile your busy in the Kwoon.

[Fred Sanford]

good example is when Monkey Slapp's phone messed up and called me waking practially my whole house up at like 2:30 Am. I made a humurus thread about it, completely toung in cheek, didn't even get mad about it, and he gets all ****ed off and posts something to the effect of "Don't ever contact me or anyone from my group again".

maybe it's because you made a big deal out of something that wasn't, just like a lil beyatch. you should be more careful what you say, it might come back to haunt you at a future date.

back to the topic at hand. I used to have the utmost respect for shaolin-do, but not anymore. for some reason they just constantly insult me. It really hurts my feelings.

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

RD, got it 100% correct when it comes to Kids and the time that they take out of your life.

And you will be nagged at friom all sides why you spend time at the kwoon rather than taking them to Mc Dees, or why your MA gear costs so much, etc.

Don't forget that the Wife also wants some time to herself and guess who gets to look after the kids than, YOU.

After the 9~5 slog you get home and get bombarded by your kids who want your attention and the Wife that wants you to do some chores.

Don't get me wrong I love my Family but at times you NEED to go somewhere and do your own thing too.

[Royal Dragon]

maybe it's because you made a big deal out of something that wasn't, just like a lil beyatch. you should be more careful what you say, it might come back to haunt you at a future date.

Reply]
See, the so called "Big deal" I made was all in good fun. Everyone got that but him. He's not the only one I've run into like that either. It almost seems to me like the study of martial arts somehow drains a good healthy sense of humur right out of alot of people. Ego's become unusually fragile, and sensitive, to the point where you can't even dissagree about things (In case I'm refering to, the actual things I didn't agree with were never even disclosed) with out being accused of being "Dis-respectfull", or even down right "Insulting" to the person you don't agree with.

If you step OUT of the Martial arts world, and have similar situation about another subject, no one even seems to notice. opinions are respected, debates are just debates and not personal attacks, and differences are nothing more than differances. Heck, I just got into a debate about whether the front suspesnions of the late 80's Camaros were inferior ot the older genration (I say the auto camber adjustment of the SLA suspension during cornering beats the non adjustable Mcphearson strut design of the newer ones). We have two diferent opinions on the subject, we are in total dissagreement on the subject, even engaged in a somewhat heated debate, but guess what, it does not even matter. We are still freinds, and probably allways will be. ONLY in martial arts circles have I seen such trivial things blown so far out of purportion that freindships are ended over them, hostile rivleries develop, and just plain old bad tension exists.

It's like in MA's, independant thinking, opinoins and ideas are grounds for battle. What ever group you follow, you have to worship. if you don't, your ostricised or alienated, or people start talking about you behind your back and everything turns into a challenge, and a headache. You can't stand up and say "Hey, your not even doing what you say you are, infact, your doing what you are telling US is wrong". If you do, YOUR the *******. In the real world, where everyone else lives, if someone Bull****s, and you bust them about it THEY are the *******, not you.

For all this talk of "Honor, respect, humillity" and what not, it seems on a large scale, across all lines, systems and styles, Martial arts training breeds just the opposite. It developes Ego, arrogance, fragile self esteems, obnoxious attitudes and flat out delusions of Grandure. In some cases complete psycotic fantasy worlds (AKA Shaolin Do,Cloud Forest, Chung moo Quan, Temple Kung Fu, Ashida Kim etc...)

I' have been working out in normal health clubs, where people only train to be in shape, and there is none of this. No one cares if you have a difference of opinion.In fact if you do, everyone wants to hear it. Differences of perspective, ideas, and training methodology all coexist simutanioulsy side by side every day, end is not even thought about. It's ALL good. Everyone does their own thing, and they are well respected for it. People help eachother, bounce ideas off eachother and are GENUINELY secure with themselves.

I've had some major changes in thinking about martial arts in the last 3-4 weeks. I've come to the conclusion alot of it exists solely so idiots, and weak minded people with low self esteem can feel good about themselves (example David Kash and his Cloud Forest "Chin Woo").

I'm telling you, I've got MAYBE 3 people I work with or talk to on any sort of regular basis (All of which are secure enough to NOT be insulted if I don't agree with them on something), and 1-2 more I'd like too someday on a one on one basis, but that's really about it. If all the fighting arts ended right now, and ceased to exist forever, it would not matter. The Qi Gong is all that is important.

[David Jamieson]

Life , time and experience will change anyones perspective about any given thing, person or place. That's how the wheel works.

I also have had martial arts in my life for most of it.

But I can't say I've really been a diligent practitioenr except for the last 15 years or so.

I also started when I was a kid. But hey, what do kids know? Nothing that's what. So all that daycare judo,karate and tkd et al doesn't count imo. In fact, I kind of get a chuckle when I hear " I've been a martial artists since I was 8" or something like that.

My perspective has changed in regards to a lot of things. I think that in order to really get a good grasp that you have to internalize and make your own whatever it is you have done. Constant repetition has a purpose, but once you have internalized teh material that was delivered to you, you have to make it your own in order to make is usable.

So, for the most part this means forgetting everything you were taught and taking a whole new approach at practice, For me this is where refinement comes in with a martial art.

Also, I have changed my views in regards to competitive fightiung and see it as a legitimate means to test and prove a martial art. Deadly strikes or not. I completely disregard those peeps who say x% of our art is deadly strikes and they can't be used in a tourney so we don't compete.

To that I say Bwahahahahahahahahaha. What a joke. As if your average ma in some kwoon could actually execute a deadly strike against a living resisting opponent.

I refuse to train anything now without a resisting opponent who is using as much force as possible. THat, to me is the only way to understand if your techs work or if they need work.

Now, granted, I think that some venues are so rule bound and kinda silly, but there are opportunities out there to really get your stuff tuned up.

I'm getting older now and really don't feel a need to prove myself, but i do appreciate learning new things and having resisting, fully resisting partnerts to train with and try the new stuff out. Much better, much more meaningful and useful and much truer to the original methods of martial training.

No more granola for me thanks.

cheers

[Meat Shake]

Granola helps to keep you 'regular'.
:eek:

[Royal Dragon]

So does rice

[David Jamieson]

I meant "granola" in the figuritive sense.:D

as in "That granola munching hippy couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag with that style". LOL

cheers

[Volcano Admim]

Originally posted by Meat Shake
Unless you train like 35-50 hours a week, you should have more than enough time for everything else.

nope

a very short undetailed example:
tomorrow i wake up at 6:20am
ill be back home at 11pm

[fa_jing]

Xebs: why not just practice on your own? As well as work out...then maybe pick it back up later as a hobby. Do it on your own terms.

[Bluesman]

Originally posted by Meat Shake
Yeah... It was either that or smoking herb, which Ive cut down significantly. TTT

As someone who smoked waaayy to much. Just say no!
It will take some getting use to...but it is worth it.
Once smoked 18 at a John Cougar and Zone/ Kinks concert, before he was John Melankamp. Drove most of the way back home on the wrong side of the road as I thought it was a one way:eek:
I had a built '68 Camaro, 12 bolt 411 posi, M22 transmission, Hurst shifter, 327 with Nitro. When people tried to pass me to get away from this idiot, I thought that they were wanting drag race me:rolleyes: and would gun it, let them go and gun it again.
Lucky didn't kill anyone.
Ran my Harley up the side of a hill once. Jumped the ditch with it. Bent the forks right up underneth my bike. Put a small dent into my gas tank with my gonads before flipping over the handle bars. Bled internal from my testicles. Glasses got pushed into my face. Now I have a 3/4" scar where they where stuck untill I pulled them out. Didn't hurt at all...not when your gonads are sending your brain the worst pain that it has ever felt in its life.
I was smoking a little over a oz. a week back then. Other than a few ozs of bourbon etc. I am clean as a whistle. And much happier too.
Of course there are the funny stories as well
;) LOL , oh to have my youth again:(