Are Self defense and Streetfighting the same?

[loki]

Basically, I'd like to get people's feedback on this. Personally I would say that streetfighting by it's very nature contains an element of self defense but would a self defense situation neccessarily constitute a streetfight? I ask this question because many schools actually have different techniques for what they consider to be 'self defense' and teach different techniques for 'fighting and or sparring'. A fight in many cases has the participants face to face utilizing strategy , skill, footwork, etc., like a chessgame if you will. and the confrontation can last from several seconds to several minutes. Whereas in a self defense situation you are usually caught by surprise and it usually lasts only a few seconds. Keeping within the context of the current topic of discussion, (deadly techniques) I believe that it is within the parameters of a self defense situation that these "deadly techniques" would be most applicable and easier to use. Why I say this is because the attacker will usually leave himself open and will not be expecting a fight. They are usually too intent on the actual act of mugging or rape. This is where the strike to the eyes , groin, solar plexus , ears, throat , etc. can be most effective. Look at the techniques that are usually taught in the 'self defense' segments of most classes. The techniques are usually aimed at these very areas. Even if they don't incapacitate the attacker they can at least be stunned enough to allow you to get away. This I think is especially appliccable to women. I still think that you should be able to learn how to use those same techniques in a 'fight' but it is a lot harder to pull off, that is a given. Does anybody feel that a 'fight' is the same or different from a 'self defense' confrontation?

Peace

[JKDVIGILANTE]

IMHO, a 'fight' has certain spoken or unspoken rules. A self-defense situation is 'anything goes'.For instance,if I were to challenge you to a 'fight',that would mean that I do not want to 'spar',but to go at it full-contact,yet,I would refrain from really hurting you(unspoken rule:no crippling or blinding or sterilizing). Now,if someone were to threaten me or my family,and I was in a position to fight that person(no guns. or,if both of us had a gun),guess what,unspoken rule no longer applies,now I will fight to the death(if need be.My life or his,is what it would boil down to).Vigilante is not just a nic',I firmly believe in 'fighting back',not 'turning the other cheek'.Once again,this is only one man's opinion.I take self-defense issues very seriously.Can you tell?

[qy]

well the way I see it is there is no reason for "street fights".
Only time I would use my MA would be if my or anothers life or well being were at risk. My first Sensei would say something like "you should be practicing so hard you dont have the time or the will to fight outside of our school, and if you do I know some things we can do that will take care of that extra energy"....
Special Moves? For me it has always come down to the basics, with intention to end the situation.

Funny I used to watch other kids "fight" afterschool. I'd see the boys makin rules. I would just laugh and laugh. (it must be a guy thing huh?)

qy

[loki]

Welcome back JKDV!

I hear what you are saying. In case you have not been following these posts lately(wouldn't blame you!) The discussion has revolved around the question of whether there is such a thing as deadly techniqes and whether they can be effectively applied on the street. I believe there are but I don't think that it is so much the technique itself, say a 'tiger claw' that makes it deadly rather it is the points of the body which are the intended targets of these specialized strikes.

It is my belief that 'fighting' , where two people square off and have a 'fair' one is completely different than what would be considered a self defense situation. Many of these 'deadly techniques' may not be so easy to pull off in a regular fight, mainly because there is some sort of strategy going on on both sides. This makes it difficult , although not impossible. On the other hand , these same 'deadly techniques' are ideal and can be effectively applied in 'self defense' encounters. Therefore the learning and practise of such techniques should not be abandoned simply because you cannot use them in a sparring class while wearing protective equipment.

Peace

[rogue]

A street fight is premeditated by all parties but self defense is not.

[Water Dragon]

My Opinion:
A casual observer should not be able to tell the difference between a street fight and a self defense situation. I would use the exact same way of fighting for both, try to hurt the other guy as badly as possible as quickly as possible and get out of there.

The difference is in the mentality. There is generally no pride or cockiness involved when you are jumped, but that is the sole reason street fights occur. Translation, if you get in a street fight it's your own **** fault, if you get jumped, it's not.

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Although there are many styles, they all depend on the strong beating the weak and the slow falling to the quick. These are not related to the power that must be learned -- Taiji Classics

[shadow6818]

I have been in a street fight before. and let me say that things happen fast you have no time to think just act. although I do not believe in fighting I had no choise. I look at a fight as a life or death situation, on the 4thn of july just a few days ago a young man was jummed by 7 people , he was taken into the hospital in critical condition with sevior head trama . The reasone those 7 people jumped the young man ,"because he looked at us wierdly,"said one of the offenders . They showed no remores, how could people do this to one onother? well anyway its my opinion that there is very little self defence but more self offence.

[loki]

To be honest, there's not really much any style can teach you against multiple attackers like that. The best thing to do would be to try and get away as fast as possible. If that is not possible, I don't know...back in the day we had a saying , " You all might kill me but I'm gonna take a few of you with me."

Peace

[Leon]

If someone were to attack me, I wouldn't think twice before breaking something on him, I am talking self defense now. But since I do not want to fight, all fights outside the Vo duong(kwon) is self defense. We train both for sparring and self defense, where most of the self defense are based on the use of low kicks and a lot of arm and elbow use /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Street fights have rules, self defense does not. I hate when people break those rules :P

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Peace

Leon
eleon@online.no
Leonhardsen.net (http://home.sol.no/~hleonhar)
Thái_Cùc_Hiêp_Võ_Môn_KungFu (http://w1.2223.telia.com/~u222301652/HiepVoMon/)

[JKDVIGILANTE]

Here's an article fresh out of the 'Tampa Tribune',saturday,July 8,2000. 'Hockey dad dies after attack by another dad':" The 6-foot-1,275-pound Thomas Junta knocked the 6-foot,150-pound Michael Costin to the floor and punched him in the head,police said."Costin was later declared brain-dead and was taken off the ventilator.He was a single father of 4.The guy apparently died from a maximum of 2 or 3 hits.I only gave 1 quote from this article,to save myself a lot of typing,but to sum things up,a man was attacked at a kids hockey game,over some stupid bs.The man who was the victim was a small man(vigilante's exact dimensions and weight-6-foot,150lbs).His attacker was a mountain of a man,6-foot-1,275lbs.Physically,the little man was terribly out-gunned,IMHO,he had only 1 choice:run like hell and escape. Yes I also believe that a properly executed, strategic strike may stop the guy,but when they are that much larger than myself,(125lbs larger),I am avoiding this situation for mainly 1 reason:the odds would be against me millions to one,and with good reasons.Obvious reasons.If I had been faced with the same scenerio as the man in the paper,I would have avoided the big dude at all costs.If he managed to corner me, I would (try) to break his leg at the knee and escape.If I failed,I would be done.Dirt-nap,toe-tagvigilante. How would you guys have handled this situation?

[qy]

Jeez,
thats bad news. My thoughts are with his children.

It is hard in day to day life to keep in mind how our actions will change others lives.

[Leon]

Remember when I was a very small child and started on hockey. Already from the beginning there was this win at all cost, the other team shall die atmosphere. I quit after some 10 year older dude punched me in the stomach for not being though enough. I'm glad I didn't continue, I would probably be a meanie by now

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Peace

Leon
eleon@online.no
Leonhardsen.net (http://home.sol.no/~hleonhar)
Thái_Cùc_Hiêp_Võ_Môn_KungFu (http://w1.2223.telia.com/~u222301652/HiepVoMon/)

[Braden]

I wanted to stay out of this discussion because I don't really understand it.

Using your definitions, why do "fights" happen at all?

[Slater_E]

you know I've been in the presence on occasion of streetfighters. by deffinition they are people who fight for the fun of it. they fight in "illegal fight clubs" etc... streetfighters are people who illegally fight for the fun or glory or whatever. they might even fight like gangsters due to someone being on someone elses' turf. In my opinion in a true streetfight there aren't any rules either. Rules are defined by people with inhibitions. if you take away all inhibitions towards killin and/or maiming and get to the core of fighting it's just as much of an "anything goes" in street fighitng as it is in self-defense.
self-defense differs from streetfighting in that it is not premeditated. self-defense is what happens when you are caught unawares and off guard.
and there's more to it also. your mentality is different. ones pre-meditated, one's not, also not to be sexist or anything, but I haven't met too many female streetfighters....there's lot's of ways that they are different......

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"In a fight, there is no second place."