Sparring Partners You Hate To Love... [Archive]

Becca

10-29-2003, 05:07 PM

I hate knee blocks. But there is this one guy in my class who will murder you if you can't do them effectively. Which is why I love sparring with him.

He has this kick-@ss set-up: He'll kick low with what ever. Lures you in thinking it is one of those "I don't feel like doing it right" kicks, you know? So you take the kick thinking to take advantage of his being open. Is not an openning for you, though! While you just let the wimpy kick bounce off and slip in close for the kill, he's dropping low and slipping his leg behind you. Then he sweeps your @ss, grabs your nearest appendage and pummles you down to the ground with a tornado of punch-elbow-reverse hand sweeps that leaves you unsure if you're fighting one guy or a flock of mad crows.

He's a big guy, is really young (about 18), and diseptively looks slow, so the wimpy kick looks authentic... All you have to do to prevent this set-up is a simple knee block, and you must block all of them, even the ones that are probably going to miss, 'cause what he's after is getting his leg behind yours without you being ready for the sweep.

(Man, my shins hurt!):eek: :D

Starchaser107

10-29-2003, 05:10 PM

knee block?
is this a shin block?
do you mean to say you raise your leg bending your knee?
or are you blocking with your knees?

Becca

10-29-2003, 05:18 PM

Yes.

:D :D :D

All of the above. Took me a while to figure out why all those are called knee block, though if you raise your arms as well as your knee it becomes crane block. The more common knee block is made by going into San Sao, or rotating your hips so's your torso is facing your opponant and your lower body is 90` to the left or right with feet in a duck-footed position with knees slightly bent. Very effective block but it tends to diflect kicks so they scrape down your shins if the kick isn't retracted quickly.

Starchaser107

10-29-2003, 05:26 PM

might i respectfully ask WHY someone would chose to block with thier knees. this seems dangerous, for the person blocking.

Judge Pen

10-29-2003, 05:33 PM

The object is to block with conditioned shins, but sometimes the knee is involved. Not as dangerous as the knee is not on a planted leg. The reason to do so is to block mid to low kicks without dropping your hands which leads to iron face training.

Becca, I've used the same combo as your sparring partner too, but probably not as effectively.

Starchaser107

10-29-2003, 05:52 PM

don't misunderstand , I practice this block as well,
however i've always used the shins, and i suppose at times the thighs and knees might get involved.
involving the knees directly re: blocking is what i'm questioning.

Oso

10-29-2003, 05:56 PM

if the knee is used the only thing used should be the patella tendon. otherwise, as already stated by the Honerable Judge Penn, the shin is where ya want to take it.

good to hear from you again, Becca.

which leads to iron face training.

LOL

Starchaser107

10-29-2003, 06:21 PM

cool.
tnx judge oso and of course becca...4 real long time.

"grabs your nearest appendage and pummles you down to the ground with a tornado of punch-elbow-reverse hand sweeps that leaves you unsure if you're fighting one guy or a flock of mad crows."

any woman that spars regularly i give props to.

The Willow Sword

10-29-2003, 06:30 PM

of the two kick boxers and the one kick boxer throws his leg up for a kick and the other raises his knee up to block, and the guys ankle was broken on the impact(its was a really painful thing to watch). Thats how strong the knee is when it is raised and locked in that position.

Becca(you are a woman right?) i would advise you to , whenever you are sparring a guy, immediately go for the groin kick. no matter what he does you kick to the groin. if he punches at you. kick his groin. if he goes to kick you,,,kick his groin(taking in to account your own blocking and counter measures) watch what happens,,,,hehehe. they will back off and you will have space. plus you should be evading anyway instead of trying to go head to head with someone who is bigger and stronger. physics never fails in this instance and one shouldnt try to test it.

Many respects,,TWS

Starchaser107

10-29-2003, 06:51 PM

"of the two kick boxers and the one kick boxer throws his leg up for a kick and the other raises his knee up to block, and the guys ankle was broken on the impact(its was a really painful thing to watch). Thats how strong the knee is when it is raised and locked in that position."

thats how strong His legs were, and mind you the Ankle isn't really the toughest of joints there is, is it really so amazing that it broke...

i'd be awed if you said his shin shattered, but a broken ankle...wow
:rolleyes: painful yes , but not hard evidence.

have you ever sustained a knee injury?, from what i hear one's knees never really heal after that,
also a word to the wise , with age the knee tends to deteriorate , and if your knees are damaged after a certain point in time, you might be looking into some serious surgery.

like I said I use those knee lifts as well, just careful on the knees.

rogue

10-29-2003, 06:57 PM

I don't think it's so much a knee block as a knee strike into the tender areas of the thigh. At least that's what I was taught.

Oso

10-29-2003, 07:29 PM

FatherDog

10-29-2003, 08:41 PM

This sounds like the same leg block trained in Muay Thai. You're meant to catch it on the shin in Muay Thai, not the knee, but the mechanics and positioning sound the same.

Oso

10-29-2003, 08:44 PM

AFAIK, it is.

Serpent

10-29-2003, 08:58 PM

It's pretty universal in my experience, through many styles. However, catching it on the shin and not the knee is pretty essential, I would say.

Kristoffer

10-30-2003, 03:23 AM

Plant an elbow down on the kicking leg, that will hurt.

Oso

10-30-2003, 05:31 AM

shin is certainly the choice. what I said was

if the knee is used the only thing used should be the patella tendon.

it's not preferred but if you screw up and your knee is in the way, tighten the patella and position the knee to take it on that very thick, strong tendon.

Becca

10-30-2003, 04:22 PM

have you ever sustained a knee injury?, from what i hear one's knees never really heal after that,
also a word to the wise , with age the knee tends to deteriorate , and if your knees are damaged after a certain point in time, you might be looking into some serious surgery.

like I said I use those knee lifts as well, just careful on the knees. [/B]

... You're missing the point, I think. It is called a knee block because it requiers the knee to move, either up or in, but the knee is not the surface you are trying to block with. You want to catch the strike with the shin or calf muscle.

Becca(you are a woman right?)
:rolleyes: Yes, I am.

i would advise you to , whenever you are sparring a guy, immediately go for the groin kick. no matter what he does you kick to the groin. if he punches at you. kick his groin
I don't think so... The point of sparring is not to pizz off your partner, it's to practice you skills so you can use them in a real fight if you ever need to. Besides, I have learned that men in general, with very few exceptions, tend to fight high and punch down into short people like me. If I assume a low stance from the outset, they get used to me being low then fail to realize that when I sneek in close, they can't get me with any force. Once I get inside thier defences I sort of jump up. This seems to put people at a disadvantage; They have trouble getting their arms back in close enough to block well.

good to hear from you again, Becca
Thanx Oso.:)

Becca

10-30-2003, 04:31 PM

Back on topic...

Do any of you have a favorite sparring partner chosen spacifically because he/she makes you use a technique you usually avoid at all costs?

Starchaser107

10-30-2003, 04:38 PM

wasn't missing the point , just trying to generate information by steering the direction of the reply, it was successful was it not.

also to answer your question, no favourite training partner.

what do you mean by "use a training tech you avoid otherwise?"

Oso

10-30-2003, 04:53 PM

I like sparring partners that are better than I am at something or just in general.

Before I moved from my old school my favorite was a brown sash 17 year old. He was 4 times as fast as I was so it helped me with speed.

Judge Pen

10-30-2003, 04:54 PM

If I'm sparring someone and I can hit the with the same technique anytime I want then I'll tell them what I'm doing and why it is landing, but I'll also stop throwing that technique because it's not helping me improve. I'll try some of my weaker techniques on them to see how they respond and so I can work on making me and them better.

Of course when I spar my teacher he knows what I like to do and what I'm good at and he will spar to my level to force me to go in different directions. My longer techniqes, kicking, and footwork have vastly improved while sparring him because he forces me to fight outside. I just can't get in close to him.

So if that's what you mean, then yes. ;)

Becca

10-30-2003, 04:54 PM

...
what do you mean by "use a training tech you avoid otherwise?"
As I stated, I hate knee blocks, they hurt very much bad, so they are the absolute last techinque I would use, and will usually just take the hit rather than use the knee block. Yet I deliberatly spar with Danny because I have no choice but to use it if I want to win

The Willow Sword

10-30-2003, 04:57 PM

I am not suggesting that you do this to "pizz" your partner off.

The point of sparring is not to pizz off your partner, it's to practice you skills so you can use them in a real fight if you ever need to.

Yes EXACTLY,,and dancing around doing cat and mouse sparring is NOT going to help you in a real fight. i mention the groin attacks in sparring, especially for women, because thats the area that we men are predisposed to put our minds in to when attacking a woman or advancing for sexual assault.

you must also forgive me Becca for my sparring background doesnt do alot of wasted movement and flighty moves, not to suggest that this is what you are doing,,BUT,,, it seems as though most of the sparring that is done in schools are methods of play and tournament oriented rather than serious attempts to better your skill.

remember the lesson in physics,,when you really have to go up against it. ( i have,and it woke me up to some realities)hopefully it will happen for you.

oh and about your rolling eyes comment on me asking if you are a woman. i am just making sure for i didnt know really. i havent seen many of your posts so forgive my ignorance.

Many Respects,,,,TWS:)

Starchaser107

10-30-2003, 05:40 PM

becca , what about side stepping or leg takedowns?

what about kicking the attacking leg before it extends?

what about putting him on his back before he can do the same to you?

by the way, have you found yourself improving by sparring against this danny, are you able to counter his techniques now, or is it still too early in the game?

Ikken Hisatsu

10-31-2003, 02:19 AM

Originally posted by Becca
...
As I stated, I hate knee blocks, they hurt very much bad, so they are the absolute last techinque I would use, and will usually just take the hit rather than use the knee block. Yet I deliberatly spar with Danny because I have no choice but to use it if I want to win

To be honest that is one of the worst things I have ever heard. If you just stand there while someone smashes their shin into your leg in a real fight it is going to make the pain of a "lifting shin block" (or whatever you want to call it) seem like a being b*tch slapped by a 4 year old.

Having said that, Im not perfect either. I always find myself planting my foot against inexperienced people and letting them bounce off because I know its not gonna have any force behind it. One of the things I really try to work on (that and not blocking low kicks with my hands, I don't know where I picked up that nasty little habit)

apoweyn

10-31-2003, 11:35 AM

i'd be awed if you said his shin shattered, but a broken ankle...wow
painful yes , but not hard evidence.

It was his shin that broke. Not his ankle. You can see in the video that the lower portion of his leg flops around after the break. Not just the foot (as would be the case with a broken ankle).

So... be awed.

Stuart B.

Starchaser107

10-31-2003, 11:39 AM

consider me awed.:eek:

:cool:

Meat Shake

10-31-2003, 11:41 AM

You talking about the MT leg break clip?
Think about it... The other dude had his leg braced against his hamstring when he picked his leg up, the other dude had his leg out in the air swinging at full force. Simple physics. Its like kicking the corner of a brick column.

apoweyn

10-31-2003, 11:42 AM

That's the one.

Tak

10-31-2003, 11:51 AM

i would advise you to , whenever you are sparring a guy, immediately go for the groin kick. no matter what he does you kick to the groin. if he punches at you. kick his groin. if he goes to kick you,,,kick his groin(taking in to account your own blocking and counter measures) In turn, whenever you are sparring a woman, attack the chest. If she lifts her elbows, hit her left breast, if she tries to kick you, hit her right breast, if she kicks you in the groin, kick both breasts, if she bites your pressure points, bite her breasts.

I hope I succeeded in making this sound as stupid as the quoted post.

Starchaser107

10-31-2003, 11:54 AM

why am i aroused?:confused:

The Willow Sword

10-31-2003, 02:14 PM

I am sorry if you feel my post was "stupid". maybe you have been smashed in the nads and didnt like it. Or your version of sparring is nancy'ing around and doing things which waste time and energy. How long have you been training anyway? Me? over 16 years.

I have taught women self defense,,,Have you?
i have worked with nonprofit sexual assault recovery organizations to help counsel women as well as help to teach self defense. (real and practical self defense). my opinions are based on my experience,,,and they WORK for women.

maybe you in your wisdom would like to discuss why you feel the post is "stupid" rather than come off reading like a total fuk off,Tak.

TWS

Becca

10-31-2003, 03:49 PM

Dude, calm down. Not attacking you, just making an observation. That is just not exceptable sparring ettiquette in most kwoons.

To be honest that is one of the worst things I have ever heard. If you just stand there while someone smashes their shin into your leg in a real fight it is going to make the pain of a "lifting shin block" (or whatever you want to call it) seem like a being b*tch slapped by a 4 year old.
How is working a techinque you don't like a bad idea?:confused:

becca , what about side stepping or leg takedowns?
what about kicking the attacking leg before it extends?
what about putting him on his back before he can do the same to you?

I can do those techniques, as well. But they are not very effective agains this one person when he throws a low kick. Keep in mind that he's 6'3" and I'm 5'1". He can muscle through most types of block I put up is he wants to. Also, 50% of the time he'll kick so sloppy that other blocks would fail. The knee block has the added benifit of moving me out of the ideal sweeping postion, i.e. his leg will not be behind my suport leg.

by the way, have you found yourself improving by sparring against this danny, are you able to counter his techniques now, or is it still too early in the game?
I can counter them well when I'm alert. Still fall for it once I get fatigued.

Oso

10-31-2003, 04:05 PM

That is just not exceptable sparring ettiquette in most kwoons.

Becca, I'm afraid I have to say that if any target is 100% off limits in sparring than you're not getting in the best sparring you could unless your focus is sport. The only schools I've been too that ruled out groin shots are sport schools.

On the flip side, a groin shot is overated, imho. But, it is a target.

Becca

10-31-2003, 04:11 PM

I never said my kwoon out-laws them. It just isn't good etiquette to go for the groin 100% of the time as was suggested I do... And it was suggested I do that. I also agree that it isn't a major target, though. A valid one if the opertunity presents itself, yes, but just not something I put any emfises on.

I see no point in studying kunf fu if all I want to do is go for a grion shot.