Good grappling art

[Void Boxing]

Those of you who have studied grappling, could you recommend an art that i could blend with Wing chun and JKD?......

I know of many different ones and i really dont have the time to go off and study each one, so any recommendations would be good OH and could you give a reason why please - thank you.

[lowsweep]

I have done BJJ for a little over a year and I love it. Check it out, you wont find many fake schools and it becomes effective pretty fast. I would say catch wrestling would be nice with the fast linear strategy of Wing Chun, but its pretty hard to find a good catch wrestling teacher without first having the right connections. If you can, though, catch wrestling is one of the most simple, fast, and brutally effective arts you'll find. Ask around anyways, see what you can dig up. Where are you located? I may know something nearby.

[Void Boxing]

I live in melbourne, victoria, australia - i could just look through the phone book and see if there are any catch wrestlers out there. Cheers mate.

[Meat Shake]

You mean on the ground or standing?
Shuai chiao if you are standing...
BJJ is hands down the most fluid ground fighting style I have ever seen. I dont think that much, if anything else, compares.

[jjj]

I'd recommend bjj or wrestling, or both if you can.

[shaolin kungfu]

BJJ or catch wrestling.

[45degree fist]

Shaolin Chin Na always supplements any style. it also allows you to stay on your feet.

[shaolin kungfu]

Shaolin Chin Na always supplements any style. it also allows you to stay on your feet.

You'd be better off going with something like BJJ. No disrespect to chin na.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by 45degree fist
Shaolin Chin Na always supplements any style. it also allows you to stay on your feet.


tell me you're kidding...

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by 45degree fist
Shaolin Chin Na always supplements any style. it also allows you to stay on your feet.

Well, truthfully, it relies on you staying on your feet. It doesn't allow as much. Chinna doesn't have the power to allow as much. That kinda comes down to you and the other guy, don't you think?

Ideally, chinna is designed to allow grappling while standing. So it's not necessary to go to the ground. But the contention of BJJ has never been that it's necessary or even preferable to go to the ground. Only that it happens. And that you'd better have some recourse when it does.


Stuart B.

[45degree fist]

I believe the question asked was "Those of you who have studied grappling, could you recommend an art that i could blend with Wing chun and JKD?......"


Everyone gave their suggestions I gave mine. and I believe that Chin Na with WC and JKD as well as any other style improves on each other.

besides if you are in a fight and end up on the ground you deserve to be there unless you are blind sided then in that case there really is no defense your getting hit regardless.

[apoweyn]

Feh. I was feeling kinda bad about sounding like I'd dismissed your idea out of hand.

Until this.


besides if you are in a fight and end up on the ground you deserve to be there

What kind of solution is that?

Like you fall over a crate you didn't see on the ground, or you slip on ice, or (God forbid) the guy actually legitimately takes you down. You shrug your shoulders, figure you've got it coming, and then settle back for a spectacular beating?

No thanks.

[45degree fist]

alright guy. lets just agree to disagree here. you obviously train to be able to fight on the ground and I train to recover my position. and I still stand by my statement if a guy legitimately takes me down then that means I did something wrong, and I deserve to be there.

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by 45degree fist
alright guy. lets just agree to disagree here. you obviously train to be able to fight on the ground and I train to recover my position. and I still stand by my statement if a guy legitimately takes me down then that means I did something wrong, and I deserve to be there.

Actually, you're wrong. I've trained about 5 hours of groundfighting in my life. I've trained standing, striking, and footwork for 18 years.

And hitting the ground is still a possibility.

That aside, extend your reasoning in the logical direction. Where does it end?

A man gets mugged in the park. He did something wrong by 1) being in the park at that time and 2) not seeing the mugger coming. Conclusion: He deserved to be mugged.

By that rationale, martial arts themselves are a waste of time. If it reaches a point where you need that sort of specialized knowledge, you've done something wrong. And you deserve to be there.

But things go wrong. And people don't necessarily deserve it.

Why would you willingly say it's over before it's over rather than simply preparing for that phase of the engagement?

But as you said, let's agree to disagree. Guy.


Stuart B.

[Meat Shake]

45degree dude...

Learning MA doesnt give you "spidey sense", so you better **** well have a plan for once you hit the ground. You dont have eyes in the back of your head, you dont have super strength to consistently 1 hit KO, and you cant beat 3 people at once. If you have ever been in a real fight, or even watched a real fight for that matter, a good majority of the times, IT DOES GO TO THE GROUND. Its ignorant to neglect ground fighting. Its an imperitive skillset to have. Just cause master googaly moogaly says style XYZ is the ultimate shiznit, doesnt mean it is. If you want to be an efficient fighter, you cant neglect any range. Punch/kick, standing grappling, ground fighting.

And standing chin na does not relate in anyway to ground fighting. Standing locks cannot be used on the ground. Its an entirely different game. And yes, I do study standing chin na as well.

[45degree fist]

Maybe Saying a person deserves to be there is poor wording. I should say if you stay on the ground you deserve the consequences.

for meat shake
I have been in very real fights, been jumped, have witnessed riots, have lived through gang violence. I know going to the ground means getting kicked in the teeth, falling on broken glass, If you live in Phoenix, AZ like I do, in the summer it means having my skin burned off my body from the asphalt.

but maybe my demographics limit my thoughts on fighting.

so if this witch hunt is finished lets get back to the original question posted.


however this is a good conversation for another thread that people with more experience than our own can comment on.

[45degree fist]

heres something good

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=26913

[apoweyn]

so if this witch hunt is finished lets get back to the original question posted.

Talk about poor wording. I'm not disagreeing with you because I get my jollies off it, mate. We're just talking here. What's with the "witch hunt" stuff?

Whatever. Onward and upward, yeah?

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by 45degree fist
alright guy. lets just agree to disagree here. you obviously train to be able to fight on the ground and I train to recover my position. and I still stand by my statement if a guy legitimately takes me down then that means I did something wrong, and I deserve to be there.

Okay, let's just assume that your logic is sound, and you end up on the ground. We've established that you deserve to be there. Now that you're there, are you gonna use chin na to get back up? How do you plan to recover your position, since that's what you claim you train for?

[Merryprankster]

Methinks 45degree fist either is or trains with good old HKV. I'd recognize that attitude anywhere.

Yeah yeah... we know. The other guy always has a knife, a razor, a shank. The ground is littered with broken bottles, hypodermics infected with AIDS and mama's herpes encrusted panties. He invariably has friends that will kick the **** out of you as soon as you hit the ground...

Bleah.

Self-defense has far more to do with situational awareness than fighting skill per se anyhow. Which makes fighting *SHOCKER* a situationally dependent exercise!!! Say it ain't so!!!

Why do I train on the ground? From a self-defense perspective, so I can choose where to be rather than have somebody choose for me. Capiche, "guy?"

Ap, witch hunt because the poor boy is feeling persecuted. "Help, Help, I'm being oppressed..."

[Nick Forrer]

On the subject of BJJ

As far as books go 'BJJ theory and technique' by John Danaher, featuring Royler and Renzo Gracie isn't bad.

You can also get lots of free videoclips at www.wffchampionships.com
and at
www.subfighter.com

You have to be a member but its free to sign up and it doesn't take long

On the subject of Monty P and the Holy Grail

Arthur: (very angry) BE QUIET! I *order* you to be quiet!
Woman: "Order", eh, 'oo does 'e think 'e is?
Arthur: I am your king!
Woman: Well I didn't vote for you!
Arthur: You don't vote for kings!
Woman: Well 'ow'd you become king then?
(holy music up)
Arthur: The Lady of the Lake-- her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why I am your king!
Man: (laughingly) Listen: Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government! Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some... farcical aquatic ceremony!
Arthur: (yelling) BE QUIET!
Man: You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!!
Arthur: (coming forward and grabbing the man) Shut *UP*!
Man: I mean, if I went 'round, saying I was an emperor, just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!

[scotty1]

lol, thanks for the dialogue. :)

[Samurai Jack]

Aikido, Judo, traditional Japanese Jujutsu, esp. Dan Zan Ryu. The last two are the roots of BJJ and I like 'em better. The Gracie 'tude has always just rubbed me the wrong way. I'm sure it's really great, but I'd rather stick with budo.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Check out: www.catchwrestling.com

This is Tony Cecchine's website. Tony is probably the best Catch-as-catch-can wrestler in the world today. I bought his premium package of video tapes about 10 months ago - (although I had first been exposed to catch many years ago). Tony's tapes are awesome.

I have great respect for jiu jitsu and other grappling arts...but catch wrestling is the best grappling I've ever seen.

I've been doing wing chun for 28 years now - and catch mixes very well with it.

[Yung Apprentice]

Taken off of the website:


"What is a hooker"

"most great Hookers WEIGHED WELL UNDER 200 POUNDS"

"The Hooker also possesses the tendon strength"







I would like to meet this HOOKER.:D

[Ralphie]

I've been studying CMA for 10+ years, and I study BJJ for ground fighting. I found the relationship between the 2 very nice. I have used my knowledge of concepts, such as the interplay of yin and yang, to better understand how to break down structure and position to attack on the ground. You can of course learn this without that knowledge, but it has helped me connect the dots so to speak. I have also used it as an opportunity to learn how to defend the takedown better. Ground fighting doesn't always mean that you are pulling guard. It could mean, amongst other possiblities, you have your knee on a guy's stomach pounding shyte out of him.
The limitation for most people with chin na is that if they don't perform the hold/break on the first try, they're usually out of position to continue with it. I look at chin na as situational, and not a "system" of fighting so to speak. I think Chin na can be effective, but it def. is a limited idea in regards to ground fighting/grappling.
On the whole if you end up on the ground you deserve what you get thing: If you wind up on the ground, and you don't know how to escape, possibly switch positions, or finish your opponent from what may seem a bad position, then you deserve what you get. For me, a scraped up back is better then being pinned on the ground, and having the crap beaten out of me.

[John Kogas]

I train in ground fighting. Whenever someone asks why, I tell them it's for the same reason I train self-defense to begin with -- because things happen whether I want them to or not.

People train self-defense to be prepared. Train ground fighting to be prepared for that.

Saying you won't end up on the ground could be thought of as saying that you're the greatest fighter in the world and that no one can take you down.

Both are ridiculous statements.

[secondregime]

What is BJJ?

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by secondregime
What is BJJ?

Brazilian jiujitsu. You mentioned taking a class or two of it on a different forum. Gracie jiujitsu.

[NPMantis]

http://www.kamonwingchun.co.uk/Brazilian%20Jiu-Jitsu.asp

[Gangsterfist]

I had a few years of Ryukyu Okinowan Karate. I studied kyoshu Jutsu, Tuite Jutsu, and a third one I can't remember (lol it was about 10 yrs ago). These were the grappling styles incorporated into the Karate I took. Now I study Wing chun and Taiji, however I think that the Okinowan Karate I took was a good system, and I think it has lots of good grappling, both standing up and on the ground. Here is an info link if anyone is interested. Since I am so out of practice on these techniques I can not say that it will blend well with wing chun. I do remember some of the simpler techniques and those tend to blend just fine.

http://www.okinawakarate.org/ryukyu.htm