GiGirk

[curtis]

Trapping feet.
I was told this was not a technique that Yip Man taught.
I'm a strong believer of this technique, it is simple, efficient, and practical. It fits into every conceptual Wingchun concept.
My question is. Is it a classical technique, or is it not? And does it really matter?
How many Wingchun schools practice these techniques?

When attacking the opponent, I often find, contact easily made with the feet, with very little effort I can take the opponent base away, and trap him up. By attacking the feet (knee, or leg) I can easily make a stiff person loose, and easily trapable with the simple touch.
What's your opinion?
Sincerely yours. C.A.G.

[foolinthedeck]

I can easily make a stiff person loose

do you mean loose or lose?

as for the gerk i think its good, but it tends to be taught after the hands.

[anerlich]

At our school it is usually taught at a more advanced level, at or after Bil Jee.

In general, I've found judoka and sambists have these skills as well, and often developed to a higher level. BJJ guys often have excellent chi gerk as well, most obvious in the open guard, but also in various leg trapping techniques to set up sweeps and leglocks from other positions as well.

Whether Yip Man or anyone else taught it or not, whether it is classical or otherwise, I couldn't give a monkeys, though it might be a concern to those who agonise over WC is a complete system for eternity or not.

[WannabeWarrior]

I use leg fencing from Sambo as opposed to chi gurk. Less structured and very effective, imho.

[Keng Geng]

Wing Chun is not made up of techniques. It is made up of principles. If it follows the principles - it's Wing Chun.

[Phil Redmond]

It is common knowledge, (or should be), that Yip Man never taught Chi Geuk. It was made up later by Yip Man students. This topic was discussed on another forum.

[Wingman]

Originally posted by Phil Redmond
It is common knowledge, (or should be), that Yip Man never taught Chi Geuk. It was made up later by Yip Man students. This topic was discussed on another forum.

If that's the case, why is it that other lineages (not Yip Man) also have chi gerk? Is it possible that Yip Man's students "copied" chi gerk from other lineages?

[Keng Geng]

Originally posted by Phil Redmond
It is common knowledge, (or should be), that Yip Man never taught Chi Geuk. It was made up later by Yip Man students. Is that what they told you?

[Phil Redmond]

I asked on the WCML about Chi Geuk. (There a no "R" sounds in Cantonese and I'm using Yale Romanization). I can't write verbatum what was posted there because of list rules. But I will say that a practitioner of SNWCK that used to study YMWCK with more than my 33 years in WCK wrote that it was made by students after the first generation probably students of WSL. Also a practioner of SNWCK wrote that there is no evidence of Chi Geuk in PSKL nor in any version in the mainland as far as he is aware of. I have been hearing this for years from students of first generation YM students. So I'll have to answer yes, that's what they told me.

[Jim Roselando]

Hey guys,


In Leung Jan's Koo Lo village teaching there was no so-called Chi Gerk. Yet! We do have some leg exercises but nothing to do with Chi Gerk.


Regards,

[Phil Redmond]

Jim,
I forgot to ask you since you practise a non Yip Man lineage. Leg checking and blocks have alway been part of WCK. My only point was that the sticking leg drill that some people do wasn't an intregal part of WCK. Of course any training that is useful is a good thing. Seem like you agree with myself and others that it hasn't been seen in the mainland.

[Jim Roselando]

Hey Phil,



I forgot to ask you since you practise a non Yip Man lineage. Leg checking and blocks have alway been part of WCK. My only point was that the sticking leg drill that some people do wasn't an intregal part of WCK. Of course any training that is useful is a good thing. Seem like you agree with myself and others that it hasn't been seen in the mainland

Yes. Its a new invention. Nothing wrong with that but traditionally not part of our beloved art. I also noticed your comment about the word Gerk (or spelling with the R). Most of the leg methods in our art does not use the term Gerk! We more commonly use the term Toi!

So, instead of Chuen Sum Gerk in Koo Lo we would say; Chuen Sum Toi or Liu Yum Toi!


See ya,

[Frank Exchange]

Hi Phil

I find it unlikely that it was added by students of WSL, as he emphasized simple, direct, efficient techniques, and emphasized stability in the stance. Whilst there is nothing wrong with kicks at the appropriate time, to "chi sao" with the legs seems to go against his thinking.

Plus I have met 4 or 5 of his direct students, know two very well, and have never seen them emphasize this.

Not saying youre report is wrong, of course, he taught a great many people, i just wonder why the person you read thought it was WSL students rather than, for example, Yip Chun, as I have definitely seen it in their lineage.

Regards

[kj]

The students in Leung Sheung's class practiced chi gerk/geuk type exercises, though it wasn't with any formal pattern. They would sometimes chi sau while touching legs. This helped to help build up the standing leg and overall stability, and also developed sensitivity and responsiveness through the touching legs. The students also got used to using more limbs simultaneously and continuously. Responses were simple and direct as appropriate, like stepping, scraping, sweeping, etc. Like hands, the emphasis was on stickiness, rather than a lot of wild kicking or disconnectedness. So I would say that the idea of chi gerk/geuk goes way back, though not in some prescriptive format as so many things are presented today.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[yuanfen]

Agree with KJ that chi gerk(yes I know about the R) goes a way back. It's an unprovable claim that Ip man never did or teach chi gerk.
Chi gerk is not an absolute necessity but it naturally flows from wing chun at a stage of development where the ygkym is well built, chor ma is understood and standing well on one leg becomes natural.

[S.Teebas]

What is chor ma ?

[[Censored]]

Whether or not Yip Man taught sticking leg, it definitely is not a "new invention". People say that Yin Fu's sticking leg skill was higher than most people's sticking hand skill.

And you think none of Yip Man's forefathers did such training? :o How embarrassing!

[yuanfen]

S.Teebas- you probably usea different spelling.
It's the turning horse of chum kiu.

[Phil Redmond]

This is an interesting link;
http://www.wingchun-kungfu.com.au/articles/chigerk.html

Some one posted on another forum that WSL said that there was no real need for chi geuk because you can control the legs from the arm bridges. We say the same thing in TWC. I can only say what I've heard over the years from other Yip man students. Who really knows?

Censored,
Who is Yin Fu?

[[Censored]]

Yin Fu was a baguazhang master and imperial bodyguard, around the turn of the last century.

[anerlich]

I heard he was sometimes called "Dirty Yin Fu" due to an aversion to bathing.

No disrespect intended, just something I heard.

[[Censored]]

Yin Fu would choke *you* out. Disrespect intended. LOL.