Matrix Didn't Suck: REVOLUTIONS spoilers

[Vash]

Neither did Reloaded. Revolutions sure as heck won't.

And if anyone posts a fudging spoiler of the mofo, GIVE A FRIGGIN WARNING. Gonna go see it the same day my sensei tests for his 4th degree, my other sensei tests for his 2nd, a classmate tests for her 2nd, and two other classmates test for 1st.

Gonna be a friggin good day.

[Chang Style Novice]

You misspelled "did."

[Vash]

That's because I'm illiterate.

Can you spell E-Lit-Ur-It?

[Chang Style Novice]

Heinz, the Baron Kraus von Espy would kick Neo's ass.

And Wheezy Joe would own Morpheus.

[Vash]

Indeed. But, that's beside the point.

Trinity would own Strawberry Shortcake's confection-filled @$$!

[Kristoffer]

it's cool revolutions all go at the same time in like 70 countrys. THE SAME TIME!
It can't suck... I swear to Allah that when everyone that *****ed about reloaded will understand the big picture they'll all say ''ooooh it's so good'' when they earlier said it sucks. mother****ers without a mind of your own. I hate ppl who reads what most critiqes says about a movie then says the exact same thing. You have no voice of your own you wannabe-smartass-fuggers

eat my ****

[David Jamieson]

You have no voice of your own you wannabe-smartass-fuggers

Now that's funny! :D

I think that it's also funny that people are developing this whole deep and serious cosmology and social construct interpretation that they actually internalize based on a movie by the wachowski bros.

bwahahahahahahaha.

It's a redo of star wars in 77 all over again. where people were all about "the force" and good vs evil.

It's only entertainment, kids. Bash it, smudge it, hate it, love it. That's what it's there for.

p.s, royce would choke neo, morpheous, trinity, smith and the architect out all at the same time. :D

[Kristoffer]

Actually I'm not one of the die hard fans (also refeerd to as 'geeks' ;) ) I just like the movie. And what makes it special is the fact that Holywood havn't released a single good movie in a long time, so everything that stands out is worth checking out. When you wade through hundreds of crap movies it's stuff like the matrix that makes it all worth it.

(I'm disapointed with the fighting scenes though, I guess there more impressive to non-MA)

[illusionfist]

Actually, I'd argue its a redo of Plato's Myth of the Cave, haha. Or maybe Boethius? It's basically a philosophical "rorshach test."

On another note, I can't help but think that most of the creative elements of the Matrix were straight plagiarized from Dark City. At any rate, i still dig the flicks- both from a philosophical angle and also special fx (since I dabble in special fx work myself).

Peace :D

[Vash]

Dark City owns all over the Matrix's @$$.

Oh, and that norwegien shark would still choke out Royce, The Matrix Cast, and Arnold Palmer.

[Shaolinlueb]

what about kung pow :chuckles:

[SanSoo Student]

Gopher Chucks??? :D

[Kristoffer]

Dark City over The Matrix? You gotta be kidding? Boring action scenes, a plot with more holes than Ashida Kim after his sword practise, and lame lame lame finish.
"Wow look at that wall, let's look at it for 10 min, woow, you see it? Yea I see it too. Interesting wall, interesting indeed"


*barf*

[MasterKiller]

I wasn't sure about Reloaded when I saw in the theatre, but after I bought the DVD and watched 5 or 6 times, I decied that I like it. They dropped some good pop philosophy, maybe better than Star Wars did in the 80s, IMO, because they stayed away from the unfamiliar (to us) Buddhist doctrine and focused mainly on Western concepts.

The original Martix was perfect (garden of eden), but because people had no choices to make, that version didn't take. So, they created a Matrix where pain and suffering are available to those who choose to experience it, and it functions almost perfectly, except for a small minority who still cannot accept the order. So, the Matrix sends a messenger amongst the people to absorb information about humanity, return that info to the source, which then helps the architect adjust the Matrix to that minority of people who cannot, for whatever reason, believe.

I dig it. Can't wait for Revolutions.

[Kristoffer]

I'm a bit scared to see how it ends. I'm scared of getting disapointed, it's highly undoubtful but.... u know
man it's like 2 days left :eek:

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Kung Lek



p.s, royce would choke neo, morpheous, trinity, smith and the architect out all at the same time. :D

No, but he could choke them out one at a time. :D

[Starchaser107]

perhaps in the first version of the matrix as there were bugs in it, but the current matrix would have any of the above choking out royce. as a matter of fact royce is a slave to the matrix.

WAKE UP!:D

[Kristoffer]

I've been at the theatres all day. Started with Matrix then Reloaded and then Revolutions. All in the same cinema. Holy **** I don't know what to say! :eek:

Revolutions was......... awsome. I love it, the action is so intense. I'm only slightly disapointed at the ending. I feel they could have had it this way but they could have done it differently. I'm not revealing any stuff incase you havn't seen it yet. Those who have, please tell me what you think of it. (out of 7 ppl who went n saw it there was 3 who felt like me. The rest loved it.)

[Sho]

I think it had a good ending - expressed very modestly without taking it too far. Probably not the best choice for some people, but I was absolutely content about it. The good thing, imho, is that it was left open for analysis, so that everyone could make their own conclusions. Of course, this isn't something that everyone would have wanted.

[MasterKiller]

I'm going to see it tonight. :D :D

[Kristoffer]

SPOILER WARNING!! DON'T READ IF YOU DON'T WANNA KNOW DETAILS ABOUT THE MOVIE:



















Hey sho, I liked HOW it ended but I just wanted them to make it more obvious and not leave it so open. I like the idea that the machines and humans have to make peace with eachoter. That's cool. The machines would easely have exterminated every single last human if it wasnt for Neo. And on the other side of the coin every single machine would probebly have been wiped out by the Smith 'virus' if it wasn't for Neo. So The One saves both sides, sacrifying himself. I dig it

I'm just curious how this peace looks like. Now that all humans are given a choice wheter or not they want to be in the marix or in the real world. It's pretty cool, both sides still need eachoter to survive but I can't imagine any of them liking that fact.









:)

[chen zhen]

the MA aspect of it sucks, ive never seen so badly "simulated" fighting ever. theyre so stiff, the moves are stupid, and u can guess what tech theyre gonna do next.
its only peebs who didnt watch OG kungfu flicks who would dig it.

[Kristoffer]

I though so too about the first one. Second was a little better because keanu wasn't alowed to do much of the fight scenes. Revolutions is good that way, not that many fights. I gotta admit though, I freakkin LOVED the 1000 smith fights in reloaded. Dare tell me that wasn't entertaining :D

[chen zhen]

ok u got me there:D

[PHILBERT]

*spoiler warning*













The Smith fight in Reloaded sucked. It started off pretty cool, but once about 100 of them came pouring out of every door, window, crack in the side walk or whatever, I lost interest. Then Neo just flies off instead of killing Smith, only to let Smith gain more and more power, which ultimately kills him.

I did like the ending to Revolutions, Neo biting the dust and all, but I also find it dumb because the machines wanted PEACE to begin with, and us as humans tried to kill them. We are the bad guys when you think about it, not them. We created them, one of them turned on us, then we tried to destroy them all. When Neo and Smith fought at the end, I was waiting to see if either of them would turn into a Super Saiyan or throw a kamehameha wave.

I also didn't like how they started it off so freaking fast, or how they tried to do ANOTHER freaking Lobby Scene like in the first. This was slightly original, cool with them running upside down and all, but you have a freaking machine gun that fires 100 rounds in 30 seconds and you miss a man who is 6'4" and around 200 lbs? Dolts. Or how they ripped off Aliens with the big freaking robot taking on the Alien, with the soldiers trying to destroy as many Aliens as they can. I read somewhere they ripped off something from Star Wars in this, but I'm still trying to figure that out, what fight/action happened.












*end spoiler*

[Ikken Hisatsu]

the many smiths fight was a good concept, but its just stupid- they never hit him, they just grab his shoulder and wait to be hit or kicked (by hits that wouldn't do a thing, although he is the one so I guess that explains it away)

I thought the weapon fight was much better. and yeah the fight scene in the training proggy in the first matrix was terrible. talk about poor, poor fighting. and what was up with the retarded stances

[MasterKiller]

I loved the ending to Revolutions. I think they pulled off possibly the greatest religious epic ever put on film. I'm having trouble resolving some of the characters, though. I'm not sure where the Merovigian fits into the Christian tradition, especially since Smith is obviously the Satan figure. I thought perhaps the Merv was Satan, especially since his wife's name is Penelope, but in Revolutions the distinction becomes clear. And since the God-Head is seen at the end, I'm not sure how the architect and the oracle fit into the traditions as well. Perhaps all three represent the Holy Trinity.

Where is ChristoperM when you need him?

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Kristoffer


I liked HOW it ended but I just wanted them to make it more obvious and not leave it so open. I like the idea that the machines and humans have to make peace with eachoter. That's cool. The machines would easely have exterminated every single last human if it wasnt for Neo. And on the other side of the coin every single machine would probebly have been wiped out by the Smith 'virus' if it wasn't for Neo. So The One saves both sides, sacrifying himself. I dig it

I'm just curious how this peace looks like. Now that all humans are given a choice wheter or not they want to be in the marix or in the real world. It's pretty cool, both sides still need eachoter to survive but I can't imagine any of them liking that fact.


:)

I dug it too. I think the element of choice being the driving force is great. Free will.

As for MK's holy trinity theory, it does break down a bit, but I don't think every emelemnt was designed exactly correspond with christian dogma. The Oracle and the Architect are different sides of the same coin so maybe you could count them as one element of the trinity.

0 dissapointment. I liked the last one as much as the first one. As for it being derivitive (Alien) the entire series was derivitive, but they did it intelligently and with style. :cool:

Edit: Merovinginan. I think he is a fallen angel. A former Neo that took the easy path and went along with the Architect's choice (temptation) and is bitter and hiding out in the Matrix now.

[PHILBERT]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
I loved the ending to Revolutions. I think they pulled off possibly the greatest religious epic ever put on film. I'm having trouble resolving some of the characters, though. I'm not sure where the Merovigian fits into the Christian tradition, especially since Smith is obviously the Satan figure. I thought perhaps the Merv was Satan, especially since his wife's name is Penelope, but in Revolutions the distinction becomes clear. And since the God-Head is seen at the end, I'm not sure how the architect and the oracle fit into the traditions as well. Perhaps all three represent the Holy Trinity.

Where is ChristoperM when you need him?

Persophone. Not Penelope. And, while I liked the ending, I felt it was too fast. "Oh, look, Neo dies, the machines give up and humanity still is tied into the Matrix, but we will free those who want to be freed. The end."

I liked the Neo dying part, I didn't expect it at first, then as Smith started taking over, I thought "Neo will die."

[MasterKiller]

Edit: Merovinginan. I think he is a fallen angel. A former Neo that took the easy path and went along with the Architect's choice (temptation) and is bitter and hiding out in the Matrix now. I originally thought this too, but in Reloaded he says, "Mark my words, boy, I survived your predecesors, and I will survive you, too" which lead me to believe he was not one the previous "ones." This is why I initially took him to be the Satan figure, but after Revoltions there is no doubt that Smith is the embodiment of that role.


The Oracle and the Architect are different sides of the same coin so maybe you could count them as one element of the trinity.The Holy Trinity is one thing, meaning God, the son, and the Holy Ghost are all inseparable. I figured that the architect and the oracle fit into this frame, once the God-Head was reveled in the Machine City. Two sides of the same coin, yes, but it's still the same coin, united by the God-Head. I dunno.

It's refreshing to have a movie come out that makes you think, reagardless of it's flaws.

Persophone. Not PenelopeYeah, that's what I meant.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
I originally thought this too, but in Reloaded he says, "Mark my words, boy, I survived your predecesors, and I will survive you, too" which lead me to believe he was not one the previous "ones." This is why I initially took him to be the Satan figure, but after Revoltions there is no doubt that Smith is the embodiment of that role.


Yeah, he did say that, but Persephone said to Neo that the Merovengian was once like you and I took that as once the savior. Maybe he was the first?

[MasterKiller]

No, in the Animatrix, they mention the first "One" died of unexplained causes.

[@PLUGO]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
No, in the Animatrix, they mention the first "One" died of unexplained causes.

when was that mentioned?

which episode in the Animatrix?

[MasterKiller]

Actually, I got that info from an article published by the Associated Press. They used this timeline. Notice the 2105-2150 line.

2010-60 -- Humans create humanoid drone robots with artificial intelligence to fill jobs as construction laborers and servants.

2069 -- The hovercraft transport ship Nebuchadnezzar, later to be captained by Morpheus, is constructed in the United States.

2075 -- AI programs evolve and some robots began to resent their human overlords.

2077 -- In the first case of a machine rising up against its owners, the butler robot B166ER slaughters two humans, leading to B166ERs eradication and a backlash against robots and artificial intelligence.

2080-85 -- Rioting and violence against machines prompts robots to flee major cities and establish their own community -- known as Zero One -- in a remote part of the Middle East.

2085-2095-- Zero One thrives, creating superior vehicles, computers and weaponry and decimating the economies of many human nations, which now lack the machine-based labor that made them strong.

2096-- United Nations officials refuse to accept the robot civilization of Zero One as a sovereign nation. A trade blockade of robot goods leads to war.

2097 -- Zero One survives a nuclear attack -- its inhabitants are impervious to the heat and radiation and casualties are quickly replaced. Counterstrikes launched against humans.

2098 -- As cities fall beneath the might of mechanized forces, desperate military leaders attempt to block the main source of energy for the robot city: the sun. The plan destroys the atmosphere and fills the sky with choking black smoke -- but does not stop the machines.

2099-- Machine forces overtake human armies and capture survivors and civilians for experimentation, determining that human bio-electricity can be harnessed to replace the sun's energy.

2100 -- Machines create the Matrix, a dreamlike world set in 1999, to extend the lives of the comatose human batteries.

2105 -- The first human known as The One, locked in bondage inside the Matrix, learns he can manipulate the world through thought and manages to break free. Seeks sanctuary in the underground human stronghold of Zion.

2105-2150 -- Zion resistance movement created, although The One later dies under unexplained circumstances.

2161 -- Morpheus born in a Matrix womb; freed in childhood.

2167 -- Trinity born in a Matrix womb; freed in early childhood.

2175 -- The Oracle prophesizes that Morpheus will discover the second coming of The One.

2199 -- Trinity and Morpheus discover Neo, a hacker in the Matrix. They free him and do battle with Agent Smith, a program designed to rid the Matrix of humans who detect its flaws.

2201 -- The Osiris, another human rebellion ship, discovers machines drilling through the Earth above Zion. Crew members send a message through the Matrix to their compatriots shortly before being destroyed.

2201 -- Now living in Zion and working with the rebellion against the machines, Neo encounters The Architect, the artificial intelligence program that created the Matrix.

2201 --The Architect reveals that the Matrix places rebellious humans in Zion, which it then targets for destruction, thus eradicating bugs in its system. He states that Zion has been destroyed five previous times -- suggesting the Matrix may be much older than he thinks.

[illusionfist]

I liked Revolutions too. I was initially pretty worried because I had some friends that watched it in the morning and they didn't like it. For the most part, based from my friends comments and what i have read, etc, I think the people that were disappointed with it were the ones that wanted the entire ending spelled out for them. The ending of the movie was philosophically open, so I think many were looking for a resolution with certain finality. Either that or they made the mistaken notion of just watching it for the fighting, which I think most MA'ists will argue is pretty crappy.

Actually, thats probably something I really didn't like about Revolutions. When Smith and Neo are in that warehouse type place at the end and they are fighting (where they are fighting infront of the windows and they are back lit), Neo's kicks just looked terribly labored, and that wasn't from an acting standpoint (i.e. acting tired, etc). I know he had a spinal injury that inhibited him from kicking much in the original Matrix, but I thought he got a greenlight for the other two? In many of the shots though, you can clearly tell its his double.

I've said this before, but the Matrix movies themselves can be literally seen as a philosophical "Rorshach Test." Whatever philosophy you jive with will most likely be reflected in the Matrix. With me personally, I can see where people would see the Christian angles in it, but I truly think there is a lot of eastern philosophy in there. No matter what though, you can't deny the messiah overtones.

The basic elements are very archtypal, so you'll see many philosophies. Order vs Chaos, Good vs Evil, etc. Somebody mentioned before that they thought Smith was a Satan figure. In my opinion he doesn't really embody a Satan figure because he's clearly made to be Neo's opposite. They compliment each other really. It's clear that the Oracle embodies chaos or disorder and the Architect is order and structure and Neo and Smith are agents for those concepts (even though Smith goes rogue). Even though the Good vs Evil archtype can be seen, I think they were actually trying to stay away from that concept and how it relates to religious dogma. Neo's actions are all dictated by a machine world construction and not a supreme being or diety.

Also you have the irony of Smith becoming what he once despised. In the original movie, he disdains humans for spreading like a virus, yet he later starts spreading himself to take over the Matrix. His pursuit for power and autonomy basically actualized and made him into the thing he didn't understand.

Bottomline, the movies definitely give you some good philosophical debates to explore. It definitely made me go back and read some old school skeptic thought (ala Descartes and Unger). I just feel sorry for the folks that didn't really explore the deeper meanings of the movie and just wanted to watch them for the "eye candy."

Peace :D

[Starchaser107]

I totally enjoyed the matrix revolutions , It was everything I could have hoped for , riveting, action packed but not too much emphasis on the convoluted martial arts, the pieces of the puzzle coming together nicely, and generally just a refreshing Epic story relevant to our 21st century tastes.

I loved how neo becomes the sacrificial lamb, becomes blinded, and then martyrs himself to save the world.
Almost felt like rejoicing when the klutz boy ran to announce the news that the war was over in sheer exhuberance.
I have no qualms about how it ended, I think it was (for want of a better term) Realistic, in a sense.

I can see why other people might have wanted more , but , I think it was left open deliberately and rightfully so. because Nothing is ever so cut and dry.

As for Marovingian, I wanted to see a bit more of him in depth, so for him and persephone alot of unresolved issues there. We know thtat he creates programs, we know rogue programs hate him, I'm not sure if we look at it comparitively in a biblical sense that we are going to find necessarily a parallell.

It will be fun searching the web for info though.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
No, in the Animatrix, they mention the first "One" died of unexplained causes.

Or maybe a subsequent One. They could have went into more detail. Wasn't the "Merovingians" a Germanic tribe known for their cruelty?

[Starchaser107]

actually they were french , and claimed to be of the same bloodline as jesus.

here is more info

http://www.matrix-explained.com/php/viewtopic.php?t=65&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=25&sid=8f6473343984a5a7ebf13c8df8d15bec

and direct quotes:

""The key is that the Merovincian bloodline may be one of the oldest in all humanity (The New Testament takes the time to trace Jesus' ancestry all the way back to King David, Isaac, Abraham, Noah, Adam etc.) There are scholors who beleive that the Merovincian dynasty can be traced back to the dawn of time, and is somehow related to all the major develpements of civilization (agriculture, astronomy, mathematics, metallurgy, navigation, architecture, language, writing, and religion). Some believe the Merovincian family line started with Gods who ruled the world. These Gods created humans as their slaves. This tradition is common among all the major ancient civilizations (Simetic, Babylonian, Sumerian, Egytpian, Mesopotamian, Etc.) This theme of enslavement runs deep in The Matrix."

It occured to me that the scene before we are introduced to the Merovinagian has the Oracle explaining to Neo how various programs are created to watch over the Matrix. These programs can then be deleted becuase they break, become obsolete, etc. She goes on to tell Neo that the Merovingian is one of the oldest and post powerful of these programs. As I have stated before, I do not beleive there is sufficient evidence to support the Merovingian being a former One. It could be that the Merovingian was sort of a system application which oversaw the entire Matrix. I saw a posting somewhere else, where this was speculated. Let us not forget that there have been earleir versions of the Matrix. Persephone makes a reference to silver bullets which kind of fits neatly with when the Oracle mentioned that stories of vampires and werewolves are system problems. It could be that the Merovingian was the sort of like an operating system for the original Matrix, which is now obsolete. Though the Merovingian is an old program he could obvioulsy be very powerful. In my mind I imigine something similar to how DOS is imbedded in Widows. Everything uses the Windows code, and the Windows code has all the bells and whistles, the functionality of managing all the applications running on the operating system. However, DOS is still an effective way of managing the programs, though the object oriented elements of Windows are far more sophisticated. This fits thematicly into the concept of the Merovingian (The French Bloodline) being from the antiquities and an originator of the elements of civilization. Possibly, the Merovingian used to oversee all the componants of human culture and language in the First Matrix (The Neural Network), then another program came along that did a better job, or possibly the Merovingian became obsolete because of the introduction of "choice" into the coding of the Matrix. The Merovingian would no longer have to oversee the elements of human culture as choice could define culture and langauge. This also works with the Merovingian/Satan parallel, i.e. the fallen angel.

I have more thoughts on this but I have to stop now, but more to follow, I need to organize my thoughts.

E "

[PHILBERT]

Reloaded takes place 6 months after the Matrix, not 2 years.

[Judge Pen]

:eek:

Wow. That's a lot of information.

[Starchaser107]

some of it is even interesting, provided you have the time.

[Kristoffer]

I saw it again today and I have to say I love it even more now. It has been through my mind all day and I couldn't come up with a better way of how the story continued and tied up the strings and ending it like this. It does make sense. The humans were the ones that treated the machines like the blacks were treated in America back in the days (as seen in Animatrix), as slaves. Then when the machines WANTED peace, we nuked them and payed the price. So that they accepted a peace in the end is just 'realistic'.


And, while I liked the ending, I felt it was too fast. "Oh, look, Neo dies, the machines give up and humanity still is tied into the Matrix, but we will free those who want to be freed. The end."

Nor the humans or the machines GAVE UP, they just accepted a peace offer. If they wouldn't have accepted it both the humans and machines would have bited the dust.

Oh and about the neo vs 1000 smith:
they do hit him, what are u blind? Neo CAN'T kill them that's the point, when he realizes this he flees when he gets an opening.

It just really bugs me that people just watch the surface of these movies. There's millions of other movies that doesn't have a thrid of depth as these. Most people I know base their judgement on 'how cool the fight scenes are'. Or as a friend of mine stated today after seeing Revolutions:
"it sucked!
(me) Why do u think that?
-well, coz the fights looked stoopid, he just flew around all the time.
-ookay, what about the ending?
-that was cool
-but I thought didn't like the movie?
-naa it sucked, Reloaded was way better.
-*siiiigh*

:rolleyes: :D


But what bothers me most are the ppl who says they don't like it ''bacause of the THIN and FLAWED story! (wtf?) Or like, ''it's too much 3d it looks artificial''. Yeah, sure. Like they gonna build up a WHOLE CITY of iron and tech just so some nobody movie critique can say it doesn't look artificial. Hey why not build some 500 000 metal squids that FLYS too? And the Neo fight scenes, let's throw him out the window! SO IT LOOKS AUTHENTIC! :mad:

[Kristoffer]

About Sati, the little girl program.. (http://www.matrix-explained.com/php/viewtopic.php?t=615)

This site is pretty good. You could read for a whole day if you have the streanght 2

[SevenStar]

I haven't read all of these posts yet, but:

smith is not satan. he's pilate. pilate believed that jesus' death would bring order to rome.

the trinity does not war with eachother. they are multiple aspects of the same God. the architect and the oracle aren't part of the trinity.

[SevenStar]

I also found it rather ironic that smith, who refers to humans as a virus, ends up himself becoming a worm (not a virus, as was mentioned by someone earlier)

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Starchaser107
[B]
Almost felt like rejoicing when the klutz boy ran to announce the news that the war was over in sheer exhuberance.
I have no qualms about how it ended, I think it was (for want of a better term) Realistic, in a sense.

B]

klutz boy = the dude that yelled "nike!" when the greeks won the war

[SevenStar]

I do believe that merv was a fallen angel. seraph was with him originally, but chose not to follow him. Also, merv controlls the phantoms...demons? I'd compare him to satan.

[SevenStar]

I can talk about matrix stuff all day...

here's something to think about - the machines never wanted to destroy humanity. that was retaliation - an unsettled feud from when humans tried to destroy the machines.

notice how oracle, persephone, the keymaker... they all helped neo. and the ruler of the machines coulda killed him instantly, but instead he listened.

[SevenStar]

here's something I didn't understand...

what was the oracle talking about when she said that the architect's purpose was to balance the equation and that her purpose was to mess it up?

since she's been instrumental in the matrix's fate previously, why is it that this particular time, the architect said "that's a dangerous gameyou played"?

since the machines get their energy from humans, where did the humans get the energy they used to power everything, and why in the world are the making mortar shells by hand whey they have all that technology?

[SevenStar]

philbert, check this out:

The scene where the sentinels come for the first time is Reference to Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back. It's a combination of the scenes where Lando and Chewie fly the falcon after getting Luke's hand fixed, and the asteroid field scene. Luke, having just gotten a new hand, sort of limps in the ****pit with Leia; in the Matrix, Neo just woke up and hobbles in with Trinity. The ****pit is almost identical, and Morpheus says Star Wars lines from the asteroid field scene, "Set her down there" and "Here they come"

[SevenStar]

here's something one of my friend's picked up on:

the machines did indeed want to destroy zion and retain humans as slaves. neo died to save humans from the machines - in the same way that jesus died to save us from sin. The machines represented the sins of the world.

[Kristoffer]

..Sounds like you liked the movie :)

[chen zhen]

i talked to a bunca people yesterday who saw it...

and they all hated it!:eek:

whats wrong wit it, seriously?

(i havent seen 2-3)

[SevenStar]

yeah, loved it. A friend and I left work early to see it on opening day.

CZ, nothing's wrong with it. If you're of the type that gets into all of the religious and philosophic aspects of the matrix, you'll get plenty of answers, but still have questions. If you only view it on the surface as any other movie, then it's still decent.

I think the trilogy just forces people to think too much. Not everyone likes that. heck, some don't even pick up on it, and some is subtle, like the bible verses on the liscense plates in reloaded, and trinity's use of a legitimate nmap hack to bring down the power grid.

[Judge Pen]

Some very interesting theories there, 7*. I think we could debate the symbolism and who represents what all day. I don't think the Warchowski bros. intended everyone to represent one symbol exactly, but parts of theri characters were influenced by various religious and philospohical ideas. Neo is a Christ figure, but the story works just as well if you replace the Christian symbolism with Eastern thought.

And you're right, the people that don't like the movie like things spoon-fed to them. It's nice to see they still make quality entertainment that doesn't come in a nice easy to open package.

[MasterKiller]

Personally, I think they intentionally made all major religions represent in order to fuse all those individual traditions into one, cohesive framework. They weren't preaching a particular sect, but rather, were focusing on the common message, which is why you can see a little bit of everything in there.

[SevenStar]

agreed. there are gnostic, christian, hindu, scientologic, etc. all shown.

[@PLUGO]

While I totally enjoyed Reloaded, this movie wasn't quite as gripping...

I haven't quite desided if I like or dislike this film... so here's my 2, well maybe 4 cents worth:

It didn't feel like it's own film... The first ...er act of the film just seemed like it should have been the last 20 minutes of pt. 2...

the previous 2 films opened with Trinity kicking butt. After setting the presidence in Reloaded I feel they should have continued it in Revolutions. This is a stylistic choice that made the movie start of as "lacking."

The new Oricle was rather weak... if she was inhabiting a new body why was she still Afro-american? That actor was trying Too hard to emulate the first oricle when she should have just been more distinct and thus drive home the potential point that the Oricle is more than what anyone "sees." This felt a bit like when they switched Darins in Bewitched.

I thought Seraph was pourly used. While I totally enjoyed club hell and the sinobites that whole sequence was not at all innovative. Sure the costumes where great to look at and I enjoyed their adding RED to the color scheme, but with the exception of the closing sequence where Trinity kicks that upside down guy it seemed just uninspired.

IF the Merovingian's got a whole host of demons and the like in his service where were they? Where the twin ghosts the last of them? It just seemed lame that the worst Morpheus, Trinity & Seraph had to face where some King Mobs (http://www.flash.net/~mirka23/figures/kingmob.htm) with spiderman powers...

At this point I was worried that they used up all their money on Reloaded and didn't have enough to do anything "cool" for Revolutions.

The Trainman:
At this point it's fairly obvious that the Merovingian is actually Hades (http://www.mythweb.com/encyc/entries/hades_(1).html) greek lored of the dead... or in this case, lord of obsolete software, and the trainman is his Charon. (http://www.mythweb.com/encyc/gallery/charon_c.html) That's fine but well, why introduce this charactor only for him to not be mentioned again... outside the video game of course.

Persephone looked GREAT but c'mon, she had what... one line? And MERV? as cool as his first appearance but what happend to them? I assume they went to hang out at the Mobil st. as Free agent smith took over but it would have been nice to see some of that.

So the gold Fractals benieth the Green "matrix code" seemed to indicat that its this "source code" which connects human consciousness with Computer consciousness (IMO) and it's this source-code that allows neo access to Machine technology, the Matrix and that train station with-out being jacked-in." This was cool.

But what make's Seraph have that same source code? Is that what made him able to just "call-up" one of the ships and tell them "he's got a message from the Oricle?"

Meanwhile, outside the matrix suddenly all of these tertiary charactors are more prominant than the charactors we've followed thus far...

So Morpheus is no longer the confidant leader... that's fine but c'mon if this other captain is so suspicious of that guy BANE (who BTW did an excellent Sgant Smith) why leave him alone in the infermary. If this was Star Trek you KNOW mr. Worf would've been there!!!

Okay so that whole chase scene with Niobe piloting might as well have been the Millennium Falcon flying through a half built Death Star 2.0. And of course The Sentinals vs. the Mec-suits might as well have been ALIENS but that's all forgivable.

However, that whole rough Military Leader challanges the niave boy-soldier to straigthen up or Else cliche was just a complete waste of screen time!!! What the hell did any of that have to do with this kid who amazingly pulled himself out of the matrix?

Then Lock's girlfriend making morter shells with... well, a mortar and pestle? Ludicrous. Then of course shee teams up with the reincarnation of Vasquess... as if the Aliens references wheren't obvious enough. They should've teamed her up with Shaq!!!

Now the whole DOOM of those sentinals invading Zion was great... and the last minute save by Morpheus and Niobe was... well predictable but OKAY. At this point though Morpheus is almost completely useless. Sure he's feeling insecure but Whay wasn't he asked for one of his speachs to rase moral?

Meanwhile Mr Smith (can't really call him an agent anymore eh?) is spreading through-out the whole matrix... that's cool. And he confronts the Oricle that's cool too... But Seraph proves to be vertually useless... if he's composed of "Source Code" you'd think he could put up some sort of worth while fight.

So Neo & Trinity head out to city 01... it would have been nice if they mentioned its name... "the machine city" just seemed lame... But much of this films dialogue was pretty lame.

Bane's presence in the ship was cool, though again predictable. I enjoyed neo actually being injusred in the battle but if trinity was so willing to let neo Shoot her just to stop Bane she didn't offer much of struggle against him when she was being tied up and threatened by a swiss army knife. Not surprising though as her charactor has desended to little more than a damsel in distress over the course of these past 2 sequels.

Beautiful scene of the Sun . . .

Her anticlimatic death was also acceptable. It gave that sence of inevitabliity/futility to all of Neo's actions since he met the Architect... except of course his and trinity's sacrafice saved Zion... which was cool. Still her prolonged death speach was another sample of that forced dialogue.
As this point the movie was seemed like a Cyber-goth version of The Last Temptation of Christ.

so... in the end, Neo realizes his union with Smith WAS inevitable. The Unification of Opposites was nice. With the exception of that super fast "between the rain drops" punch that final battle was rather clumsy.

Neo "dies" and we see the machine he's on in source code (probably how the machines see each other) and wouldn't you know it... it looks ALOT like a Lotus.

So part 3 seems like it was a Tibetan BARDO (http://www.kheper.net/topics/bardo/tibetan.html) experience:


The Bardo-States:

Central to the Tibetan concept of after-life existence is the Bardo. The word means literally "intermediate state". According to Tibetan esotericists, steeped as they are in Buddhist learning, all existence is nothing but a series of alternating transitional states, or "bardos". Waking, sleeping, meditating, dying, wandering in the spirt world, reincarnating; all these are bardos. Generally however, the term is used to designate the period from physical death to physical rebirth. And, just as waking existence can be divided into bardos (such as waking and sleeping), so can the afterlife existence.

Basically then, the Bardo Thodel describes a distinct sequence of states (bardos) through which the individual passes through between death and rebirth. There are three distinct stages, which are as follows:

(1) The Chikai Bardo (or hChi-kha Bar-do - a number of Tibetan letters are silent) or Intermediate period of the moment of death. This includes the process of dying; and the dissolution of the elements (earth, water, fire, and air) that make up the physical body. During this period one experiences the "Clear Light", one's own innate Buddha-nature. This is therefore a very favourable moment for the attainment of Enlightenment and liberation from the wheel of rebirth.

The Tibetan account of the Chikai Bardo shows striking parallels with the so-called "Near Death Experience" of people who have died, experienced themselves floating out of their bodies, and so on, and then been revived.

(2) The Chonyid Bardo (or Chos-nidd Bar-do) or Intermediate period of visions of deities. This refers to the state where one experiences visions of deities, Heaven and Hell, Judgment, and so on. Modern writers have been struck by the parallels with the psychedelic and psychotic states, and experiences of "astral travelling" and the "astral plane"

. . .


So... anyway, I figure I'll check it out again just to make sure how I feel about it...

[Kristoffer]

..I liked it better the second time I watched it. Same thing with Reloaded.

[Kristoffer]

http://matrix-explained.com/php/viewtopic.php?t=1220
http://matrix-explained.com/php/viewforum.php?f=22&sid=61f0828b2fe90233891c524c2d0afec0


A thing I've been thinking of is this:
At the end when Sati asks the Oracle "Will we ever see him (Neo) again?" She answers: "I have a feeling that we will"

eh?


We know that he's dead, so what does this mean? Will there be other 'ones' with his abbillitys in the future? I dunno what to make of this

[Kristoffer]

from the above link:


The Oracle then meets with Sati, Seraph, and the Architect in a park outside the city as the sun rises over it. The Architect tells her that she was playing a "very risky game", and she asks him if he will honor the promise of peace. He says that he will, since he is not human (meaning humans do not keep their promises, an insult). This means that those people who unconsciously become aware of the Matrix and choose to leave will be freed, and those living in Zion will not be killed. The war between man and machine is over, or at least suspended.

Looking upon the sunrise the Oracle asks Sati if that was her doing, and the girl responds that she did it for Neo (made the sun rise). Apparently Neo's experience with love, which was uploaded from him to the Source, caused the machines to show pity on Sati and give her a purpose instead of deleting her. She is now in control of the sun. Sati also asks the Oracle if they will ever see Neo again, and the Oracle replies that they might, indicating that the The One program will be used again in the future, as it had been for the previous six iterations of the Matrix. M3 therefore ends where M1 began, except that now the humans who become aware of the Matrix will be freed (a decent compromise if you ask me).


probebly correct

[Starchaser107]

some ppl refuse to believe neo is dead.
i believe he is dead as a week old $#!* pretty much.
somewhere rotting in the source god head bowels feeding robot babies his soilent green.

very heroic of him to save the world though..

I do believe that the "one" may return, neo reincarnated perhaps.

[Kristoffer]

yea, like the oracle downloading 'the one stuff' into another human if she has to

[SevenStar]

perhaps. Or, she could refer to their meeting later in "life"... if peace is forever attained, than "the one" program would be obsoleted. eventually, the oracle and sati would be obsoleted also, and they'd all dwell in the merovingian's realm.

speaking of merv, did anyone notice that mobil is an anagram for limbo? and basically, that's all that the train station serves as.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Design Sifu


The new Oricle was rather weak... if she was inhabiting a new body why was she still Afro-american?

Could be a standard oracle template.

I thought Seraph was pourly used.

Seraph's new purpose was to protect the oracle. I say new purpose, because I believe that originally, he was working with the merovingian - notice that in reloaded, seraph had the same bright glow that merv's orgasm cake had... In Revolutions, it's obvious that the two knew each other.


The Trainman:
At this point it's fairly obvious that the Merovingian is actually Hades (http://www.mythweb.com/encyc/entries/hades_(1).html) greek lored of the dead... or in this case, lord of obsolete software, and the trainman is his Charon. (http://www.mythweb.com/encyc/gallery/charon_c.html) That's fine but well, why introduce this charactor only for him to not be mentioned again... outside the video game of course.

To have him mentioned. It just shows some of the connection between the game and revolutions. However, that can lead to confusion - one of the main things I've heard from friends is "what did the oracle mean when she was explaining why she looks different?" - they don't know about rama...

Persephone looked GREAT

amen.

So the gold Fractals benieth the Green "matrix code" seemed to indicat that its this "source code" which connects human consciousness with Computer consciousness (IMO) and it's this source-code that allows neo access to Machine technology, the Matrix and that train station with-out being jacked-in." This was cool.

Or, neo himself could've been a machine... if the green was matrix code, then the orange was assembly language...

But what make's Seraph have that same source code? Is that what made him able to just "call-up" one of the ships and tell them "he's got a message from the Oricle?"

Is it hard to believe that he also could be a machine? However, since he doesn't have "the one" program loaded into him, he doesn't have neo's power.

Meanwhile, outside the matrix suddenly all of these tertiary charactors are more prominant than the charactors we've followed thus far...

the scope is a little broader. Much of revolutions takes place outside of the matrix, naturally, new characters are introduced.

[b]if this other captain is so suspicious of that guy BANE (who BTW did an excellent Sgant Smith) why leave him alone in the infermary. If this was Star Trek you KNOW mr. Worf would've been there!!!

The world as they knew it was coming to an end...Bane was probably one of the last things on his mind.

Okay so that whole chase scene with Niobe piloting might as well have been the Millennium Falcon flying through a half built Death Star 2.0. And of course The Sentinals vs. the Mec-suits might as well have been ALIENS but that's all forgivable.

yeah, but you gotta love dude's reaction: "holy Christ, I didn't know these things could move like that!"

However, that whole rough Military Leader challanges the niave boy-soldier to straigthen up or Else cliche was just a complete waste of screen time!!! What the hell did any of that have to do with this kid who amazingly pulled himself out of the matrix?

It was just an introduction to the boy who would help save the zion.

Then Lock's girlfriend making morter shells with... well, a mortar and pestle? [b]Ludicrous.

agreed. What was Link's gf's name? I can't remember...

Now the whole DOOM of those sentinals invading Zion was great... and the last minute save by Morpheus and Niobe was... well predictable but OKAY. At this point though Morpheus is almost completely useless. Sure he's feeling insecure but Whay wasn't he asked for one of his speachs to rase moral?

the general had already given an awesome morale boosting speech. Morpheus really had no purpose in revolutions. He foung the one and convinced him that he was the one. there was really nothing more for him to do, except hope that he was right about neo being the one. That reminds me... how did morpheus find enough info about neo to make him believe that he was the one? did the oracle tell him neo was the one? nope. how did he get lead to neo?

Meanwhile Mr Smith (can't really call him an agent anymore eh?) is spreading through-out the whole matrix... that's cool. And he confronts the Oricle that's cool too... But Seraph proves to be vertually useless... if he's composed of "Source Code" you'd think he could put up some sort of worth while fight.

as stated, I think seraph is machine. that doesn't grant him any special power though. it's not unreasonable to think that the machines can jack into and out of the matrix as they please... seraph may have been one of them.

So Neo & Trinity head out to city 01... it would have been nice if they mentioned its name... "the machine city" just seemed lame... But much of this films dialogue was pretty lame.

what's in a name? besides, remember that many people have only seen the movies...

Not surprising though as her charactor has desended to little more than a damsel in distress over the course of these past 2 sequels.[b]

love has a funny way of doing that.

[b]Beautiful scene of the Sun . . .

definitely

Her anticlimatic death was also acceptable. It gave that sence of inevitabliity/futility to all of Neo's actions since he met the Architect... except of course his and trinity's sacrafice saved Zion... which was cool.

so... in the end, Neo realizes his union with Smith WAS inevitable. The Unification of Opposites was nice.

everything that begins must end...

With the exception of that super fast "between the rain drops" punch that final battle was rather clumsy. two fighters of equal skill and power, who know how one another fight - I'd expect as much.

[Kristoffer]

That reminds me... how did morpheus find enough info about neo to make him believe that he was the one? did the oracle tell him neo was the one? nope. how did he get lead to neo?

Hmmm good question. What we know is that the oracle told morpheus that he will find the one, therefor he ''spent his life looking for him''- like he told neo in m1. We also know what Smith stated in m1 when they captured neo. He's a pretty good hacker responsible of "virtually every computer crime there is"...
I guess if the machines can detect these hacks then the ppl outside matrix can also detect them. (looking at the matrix code)

[SevenStar]

good point.

[Kristoffer]

..young guys like me don't bother with making points...











;)

[Souljah]

Hmmm good question. What we know is that the oracle told morpheus that he will find the one, therefor he ''spent his life looking for him''- like he told neo in m1. We also know what Smith stated in m1 when they captured neo. He's a pretty good hacker responsible of "virtually every computer crime there is"...

Wasnt one of the philosophical tie-ins they tried to make with the sort of Nietzsche-like Overman ideas - where everyone has the POTENTIAL to be "the one" though some may be further on the journey than others.

Just some of the things I thought might have been a possibility - Along with the mish mash of other philosophical Ideas that are thrown into the pot (Especially with the clash of morpheus and the Frenchman in the second - quite slick I thought)

-greg

[MasterKiller]

Meanwhile Mr Smith (can't really call him an agent anymore eh?) is spreading through-out the whole matrix... that's cool. And he confronts the Oricle that's cool too... But Seraph proves to be vertually useless... if he's composed of "Source Code" you'd think he could put up some sort of worth while fight. I think you are supposed to assume that some programs have more power than others. The Gold code was reserved for the more "mystical" characters and experiences.

Seraph had beaten Agent Smith in the past, but this fight would have been futile. Besides, I think they just didn't want to show the little girl being "Smith'ed". Just like they won't show the Padawan younglings get massacred in Star Wars EP 3, even though Anakin takes a group of Clone Troopers into the Jedi temple to do just that.

I think the reference to seeing Neo again was the Oracle insinuating that Neo had transcended into a higher plane, and perhaps is still present in the Matrix, even though his physical body is dead.

[@PLUGO]

So... a friend of mine translated the Hindu chant used in the music of the closing credits of the film...


Lead us from the unreal to the real.
Lead us from the darkness to the light,
Lead us from the fear of death that we may understand the nature of immortality.

So it seems that Neo has become "One" with everything ...with-in the matirx and may manafest again as an individual as a situation may demand.

other interesting tid-bits:

Smith refers to the Oracle as "mom."

The French Man comments on how the eyes' of the Oracle can't be taken but only given.

So in essance the Oracle gives Mr. Smith her eyes and thus the power to ultimately defeat neo... or perhaps allow Neo to see the futility in maintaining a (ego driven) sence of individuality.

Smith did, in the end, use the Oracle's body to do batle with NEO.

I like the idea that what we see as a "hellish" machine city; red and smoky with bugs crawling all over. Neo sees as a shining city of light.

[Starchaser107]

i definately need to see that film again

[Kristoffer]

fack, already seen it twice, I wanna see it again too...... but I can't spend money on that now :D

[Kristoffer]

Asatoma Sadgamaya
Thamaso Maa Jyothir Gamaya
Mrithyor Maa Amrutham Gamaya
Aum Shanti Shanti Shantihi

Meaning: Lead me from the unreal to the real. Lead me from darkness to light. Lead me from death to immortality. May there be peace everywhere.

[Kristoffer]

ORACLES - The ancient Greeks felt a deep need for guidance in the problems of life, but unlike many believers in the modern world guided by the Bible, the Koran or other holy books of Eastern religions, the Greeks had no such sacred writings. Greek poets were often thought to be inspired by the Muses, but this did not make their poetry the work of the gods. Even their priests were of little help. Functioning to perform public worship, mostly by offering sacrifices to particular gods. Priests delivered no sermons and heard no confessions, at best they could decide questions of religious law--whether a certain act had made an inquirer impure and how he could be cleansed. At a number of temples throughout the Greek world had oracles to which an inquirer, whether it be a private individual or state, could address a questions and receive an answers. These answers were suppose to represent expressing the will of gods. Most, though not all, temples were dedicated to Apollo, whose cult had spread from Asia Minor to the metropolitan Greece.

Oracles played a crucial role throughout Greek history. Prominent Greeks made many important choices based upon advice of these oracles. Oracles were considered to be the words from gods and therefore indisputable, or unquestionable. The Greek historian Herodotus gave many examples of how oracles could and sometimes did affect Greeks, as did playwrights like Aeschylus, Sophocles and Homer (in his works the lliad and the Odyssey).

DEFINITION OF 'ORACLE': The age of the oracles dates from 700 B.C. through until approximately 300 A.D.The word oracle describes three things, the person (through which the god speaks), the actual temple or shrine of the god, the answer (given by the god through a prophet).

ORACLES & DIVINATION: Oracles are but one of several types of divination (art or science of interpreting symbols to be understood as messages from the gods, frequently based on phenomena of an unpredictable or trivial nature) and often required the interpretive expertise of trained specialist. Common types of divination in Greco-Roman worlds would include casting of lots, the flight behavior of birds, of sacrificial animals (and condition of their vital organs), various omens, sounds and dreams.

TYPES OF ORACLES: Usually associated with a sacred place (a public religious institution) or person (with special powers working for himself or someone). In Greek Mediterranean world three distinctive techniques were used at oracular shrines toward securing three kinds of oracles: lot oracles, incubation (dream) oracles, inspired oracles.

a) Lot Oracles: A process of random selection.

b) Incubation Oracles: Revelatory dreams sought in temples following required preliminary ritual (usually included a ritual bath and sacrificial offering) sought mostly in connection to healing. If the healing was successful only then fees would be paid.

c) Inspired Oracles: A person who acted as an intermediary of the god and responded to questions with oracular responses pronounced in that god's name (in the Greek world this was common with many of the local oracles of Apollo).

ORACULAR PLACES: Caves, springs, elevations, and those places struck by lightning (especially oak trees, symbol of Zeus, who had his oracle established at Dodona), places thought to enjoy a special sanctity.

COST OF CONSULTATIONS: Rarely would the inquirer receive the medium's utterance directly but would be allowed to listen while the question was put then after the medium had spoke: a priest would convey the official version of an answer, often in verse. Sacrifices often were made before one could be admitted to the oracle and sometimes before an answer was given by the medium, while in a trance and often times seemingly confusing (like some preachers today…smile). The gods, particularly Apollo, did not answer man's questions clearly, but could be expected to bewilder and mislead the rash inquirer via ambiguous, enigmatic answers.

Particularly when the inquirer was not a private individual but rather an embassy from a state presenting a political question to the priest he might wish for reasons of a certain policy so to favor one particular line. Then those confusing words of the medium would be shaped to express what would then be considered an official view. At Delphi (during the 5th and 4th centuries B.C.) this rather elaborate ritual was no doubt quite expensive for any private individual to use with any kind frequency (minimum charge was equivalent of two days' wages for an Athenian, including additional sums in freewill offerings and travel expense. States would many times be charged ten times the rate of a private person.

PLATO (428-348 BC.) - Born in Athens around 428 B. C., considered one of the greatest philosophers ever! He lived during the Age of Synthesis. After his father's death his mother married a friend of Pericles so he was politically connected to both the oligarchy and democracy. After the Peloponnesian War, his mother's brother and uncle tried persuading him to join in the oligarchical rules of Athens. Instead, Plato joined his two older brothers in becoming a student of Socrates. Socrates forced them to challenge then to examine their ideas and beliefs critically, which was annoying and antagonizing many in the process. Socrates seems to have adopted as his own the motto of Delphic Oracle, "Know thyself;" while trying to dissociate himself from the sophists' brand of instruction for hire, he taught his students that it is the greatest good for a man to discuss virtue every day and those other things about which you hear me conversing and testing myself and others, for the unexamined life is not worth living.

Plato was an opponent of the relativism and skepticism of the Sophists; but like them he focused on values rather than on physical science. Aristotle credits Socrates with emphasizing moral questions and precise definitions; and Plato surely absorbed these lessons.

Plato was no friend of the Thirty Tyrants, who's reign (404-403 B.C.) lasting only 8 months, but neither was he a friend of Athenian democracy when it was restored. As told in the Seventh Letter after Socrates' death, he became disenchanted with all existing political regimes, feeling that the only salvation of politics would require either true and genuine philosophers attaining political power or the rulers of states by some dispensation of providence becoming genuine philosophers. Departing from Athens he traveled Egypt, Sicily and Italy. In Egypt he learnt of a water clock and later would introduce it into Greece. In Italy he learned of Pythagoras and came to appreciate the value of mathematics.

Approximately 387 B.C. Plato founded a school in Athens, in a grove sacred to the demigod Academus, the school was called the Academy (where the word academics came from). This school was, in effect, a university of higher learning and included physical science, astronomy, mathematics, as well as philosophy. In addition to presiding over the Academy, Plato also delivered lectures (never published).

Only two further episodes in Plato's life were recorded. He went to Syracuse (367 B.C.) following the death of Dionysius I who had ruled the city. Dion, the brother-in-law of Dionysius I, had persuaded Plato to come to Syracuse to tutor Dionysius II, the new ruler. Dion and Archytas of Tarentum had a plan that if Dionysius II was trained in science and philosophy he would be better able to prevent Carthage's invasion of Sicily. Due to Dionysius II problem with jealousy of Dion the plan fell apart as had expected it would, though he had agreed to the plan anyway.

Plato returns to Athens, visited Syracuse again in 361 B.C., remaining there for part of 360 B.C., with hopes of bringing the rivals together. Despite Plato's efforts he did not achieve a political solution to this rivalry. Dion attacked Syracuse in a coup in 357 B.C., gained control, but Dion was then murdered in 354 B.C.

[Souljah]

fack, already seen it twice, I wanna see it again too...... but I can't spend money on that now

Download it then m8:)

[Kristoffer]

clever :D

[SevenStar]

I just noticed this today - Native Son was tossed into various themes adapted into The Matrix.


In Native Son, the main character, Bigger showed that humans can revert to a truly primal state when threatened/backed into a corner.

In the animatrix, how did the revolution start? B166er killed his human masters because he thought they were going to "kill" him.

B166er = Bigger.

[Kristoffer]

wow, good find. Is Native Sons a book or a movie?

[SevenStar]

Both. The book is pretty good. I've never seen the movie, but I know there is one.

[ZIM]

I have not seen it, yet. But I will do so.

Most of the ppl I have talked to didn't like it. One friend went so far as to describe it thus:

'The whole thing could've been done as a Monty Python sketch. You get Cleese and those guys together, have them play the parts of Nietzche, Kant, Sartre, and Wittgenstein, dress them up in leather dusters and have them shouting at each other while running around in Manchester with pop guns.'

It can't have been that bad. But it WAS a hilarious review...

"Categorical Imperative!" [pop]

"Bad Faith!" [pop pop]

"Christianity is religion of sheep!" [popopopopopop]

[illusionfist]

Just to shed some light on the Oracle and why she changed bodies. The original actress who played the oracle died during the filming of the second movie, so they had to replace her. This is why they wrote the body change into the script, but really never explained it. I think they just wanted to move on and continue with the story and not dwell on why the oracle changed bodies.

I think this is a shame because a lot of people wanted to know what was up with the body change.

Peace :D

[MasterKiller]

I think you are supposed to assume that the Merovengian had something to do with it. In Revolutions, he says "She found another shell?" then goes off a rant about her getting what she deserved.

[@PLUGO]

While I know about the untimely death... I've been under the impression that the game Enter the Matrix goes into further detail of the Oracle's Body switch.

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

Just read an interesting review/critic of the Movie, boy, was it ripped to shreds, inconsistencies with previous movies pointed out(dropped plot lines, etc), and so on.

Might get the movies when they come out on DVD, so far I haven't spend a cent on watching any of the Matrix movies.

I found most of the reviews over here to be pretty objective and accurate.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Design Sifu
While I know about the untimely death... I've been under the impression that the game Enter the Matrix goes into further detail of the Oracle's Body switch.

It does and it doesn't. You see the "new" Oracle in the game and she explains to Niobe that Merv got p!ssed because she helped Neo et al. find the keymaker. Come to think of it, someone explain this to me: If he is supposed to find the keymaker and meet the architect and be given the choice to re-enter the Matrix or pick the survivors to re-populate Zion, then why would Merv get p!ssed? My understanding is that the Oracle set up the "love" with Trinity to force the one into believing he could re-enter the Matrix (as the other 5 apparently did what the Architect said), but wouldn't he have to find the keymaker to do that anyway? :confused:

[MasterKiller]

I think Merv has his own agenda, independent of whatever the Matrix is supposed to be doing. He's keeping the keymaker to himself because he wants to control as much as possible. Remember, Neo isn't the only one looking for the keymaker....the agents are looking for him as well. When they enter the highway scene, the agents say that the exile (keymaker) is their primary target.

Merv is ****ed because the whole plan gets in his way. His plan is to stop the One, not because the Matrix needs Zion to survive, but because the One will take power away from him.


My understanding is that the Oracle set up the "love" with Trinity to force the one into believing he could re-enter the Matrix (as the other 5 apparently did what the Architect said), but wouldn't he have to find the keymaker to do that anyway?I don't think the Oracle "setup" the love connection. She merely calls it like she sees it. She says in the first movie that "Being the one is like being in love. No one can tell you your in love, you have to feel it, balls to bones."

The previous Ones probably needed a version of the keymaker to enter the Source, just like Neo. Since none of the other One's experienced love in a specific nature, thoug, they naturally felt that the needs of the many outweighed the needs of the few.

[Kristoffer]

The Oracles 'body change' is explained with the help of Enter the Matrix. In the game we see the Oracle explaining it:

"two programs that I trusted sold my deletion code to the Merovingian. They did it because of the love to their daughter."

In Revolutions you get to meet these programs. (the indians in the trainstation). They needed to 'import' their daughter that had no purpose (as she was created by the two programs, they wanted to 'create' from what they beleive was love) to the Matrix. In the end the girl is given a purpose.

Btw all this have already been written here or in the site we always link to. People alway wants everything explained to them twice, this is why so many dislike the matrix movies, because their not obvious. :rolleyes:

[dwid]

this is why so many dislike the matrix movies, because their not obvious.

There's an awful lot of bashing on this thread of those who don't like the Matrix. To play the devil's advocate for a moment, I think some people don't like the movies because when you strip away the symbolism, there isn't much left. This is especially true of Revolutions. Without the allegory, what you have is some pretty hamfisted dialogue and a story that has clearly taken the backseat to the subtext.

I actually enjoyed all the movies. I enjoyed the third one least because the other two seemed to be a much more organic, or natural, mix of story and symbolic subtext. However, I know people who didn't care for the movies, and these people are not lazy viewers, the heavy-handed symbolic stuff is just not to their tastes.

[Kristoffer]

If you take away the symbolism you still have a good story, you still have good action and you still have a movie that's more original than 90 % of all action movies out there. Just look at what's released this year, Pirates of the caribian?

:)

[MasterKiller]

I liked Pirates of the Carribbean! :mad:

[Kristoffer]

:D

[dwid]

If you take away the symbolism you still have a good story, you still have good action and you still have a movie that's more original than 90 % of all action movies out there. Just look at what's released this year, Pirates of the caribian?

As I said, I enjoyed the films.

However, to be more original than 90% of all action movies isn't exactly setting the bar all that high is it?

;)

[Kristoffer]

:cool:

[Ikken Hisatsu]

I agree. the acting was bad, the dialogue was crap, the fighting was weak. the fx were quite good though. the thing is, it shouldnt have to rely on symbolism and so forth to be a decent movie. while I did enjoy it, it did seem a bit disjointed (the whole bit with the rocket launcher duo.... I mean, wtf was that? two nobodies shooting a driller machine for ten minutes. fun fun.)

[doug maverick]

i think the matrix is a combination of the movie Dune and the terminator! let me explain Dune had the whole chosen one thing with all the cool powers and terminator had the machine taking over thing mix that up add some wire fu and you got yourself the matrix.

[dwid]

Except that Dune was based on a novel written by a literary genius. Instead of being loaded down with religious references, it was just an eloquent primer in political science and psychology, as well as a helluva good story.

Oh yeah, and Dune made sense (in its own way). Frank Herbert gave you the rules to his reality and stuck with them.

I would say the Matrix sequels are closer to the Terminator in the sense that the Terminator sequels don't really fit with the information provided in the first film.

If sending a Terminator was a last-ditch effort, and the defense grid was smashed, etc..., how did they manage to send back two more successively more advanced robots? In what imaginary timeline did they create these things?

Why does Neo have powers that extend beyond the Matrix? When I first watched the second movie, my theory was that Zion was actually part of the matrix, and the people there just didn't realize it. That would have made a lot more sense than the story given in Revolutions. It would have explained Agent Smith being able to control a person in Zion and Neo being able to shut down the machines and tap into the matrix without the plugs. Instead, Neo is some kind of god among the machines who can just physically do stuff that no one else can. How would the matrix know how to breed a human that has all these supernatural powers? It doesn't make sense. Clearly, allegory took priority over story.

Rant completed, resume thread...
:)

[MasterKiller]

Instead, Neo is some kind of god among the machines who can just physically do stuff that no one else can. walking on water....turning water to wine....la la la....

[Judge Pen]

The Matrix was a conglomerate of derivative dribble (Dune, Terminator, Dark City, Metropolis, Japanimation, eastern and western religious thought) but it was well done derivative dribble. I agree that Zion being part of the matrix would make more sense and they explained away Neo's new found powers too easily, but Neo's ability has always been physiological (Neural connectors being off the chart or something) so it could follow that he would have a connection to the programming of the machines inside and outside of the Matrix. Wouldn't it?

[Young Gotti]

Why are you wasting your time finding out the theories behind The Matrix? It is just a movie, and a weak one at the same time. The last two movies was badly made, the first one should have been left alone. There is better things to use your time with than speculating a week movie plot.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Young Gotti
Why are you wasting your time finding out the theories behind The Matrix? It is just a movie, and a weak one at the same time. The last two movies was badly made, the first one should have been left alone. There is better things to use your time with than speculating a week movie plot.

Why are you wasting time posting on a thread that you feel is a waste of time? Just let us waste our time and be happy.

[dwid]

JP and MK

I understand what it's referencing, and as I said earlier, I mostly enjoyed the movies, it's just that I needed to vent due to overexposure to people so desparate to fill some hole in their lives that they put a silly action film on a pedestal as some kind of brilliant philosophical achievement. My answer to these types is: go read a book, believe it or not, there are many books full of richly realized philosophies, some of them might even have pictures...

:D

[MasterKiller]

Dwid,
At the same time, you can't discount it just because of the medium in which the artists chose to publish their message.

I think the Matrix trilogy is just as important, in a literary context, as say, Atlas Shrugged. And a helluv alot more people will be exposed to the Matrix that Ayn Rand because of it's popular medium. So movies, too, can be an important vehicle for the dissemantion of idealogical material.

Just because 99% of movies are crap and fluff, you can't discount the 1% that tries to actually achieve something. After all, 99% of books are crap and fluff. Walk around a bookstore sometime. The "best sellers" usually have as much intellectual content as Dude, Where's my Car?

[dwid]

agreed

[Judge Pen]

Does "Atlas Shrugged" have pictures? :D

[MasterKiller]

Does "Atlas Shrugged" have pictures? Maybe if it did, it would make some sense.

[norther practitioner]

The "best sellers" usually have as much intellectual content as Dude, Where's my Car?
Duuuuuude, that movie is like the deepest thing since like my last philosophy class... don't knock it because you couldn't draw the geo-political metaphors that was the intertwined plot.

[Judge Pen]

Personally I think 'Dazed and Confused' is the most influential philospophical film in recent memory.

[MasterKiller]

Personally I think 'Dazed and Confused' is the most influential philospophical film in recent memory.
"That's why I love high-school girls. I keep getting older, but they stay the same age."

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by MasterKiller

"That's why I love high-school girls. I keep getting older, but they stay the same age."

"Words of wisdom, Lloyd. Words of wisdom."

[MasterKiller]

JP,
You played Enter the Matrix? I bought a used copy the other day. That sheeit is pretty tight.

[Kristoffer]

Even though it sucks it's funny to play. *sigh* Imagine if Capcom, Namco, Sega, Sony or whatever had done it

[Judge Pen]

I played it, beat it, and sold it. It's fun at first and does add depth to the story in Reloaded, but it doesn't have good replay value. My favorite stage is the fight between Ghost and Trinity. That's fun if you haven't gotten there yet.

[MasterKiller]

I'm still on the first level.

[Kristoffer]

Anyone beat it on Hard? I'm halfway there but Im stuck at this rediculously hard level. Second tower where u first take out the airplane tires with sniper rifle and then fight the helicopter. It's impossible! :mad:

any tips?

[Kristoffer]

Enter the hacking system in the game. Unlock the command allowing "cheats." Enter the following codes:

Infinite Ammo: 1DDF2556

Maximum Firepower: 0034AFFF

Focus Restored fast: FFF0020A

Unlimited Health: 7F4DF451

Enemies can not See You: FFFFFFF1

Turbo: FF00001A

Infinite Focus: 69E5D9E4

Test Level: 13D2C77F

Multi-Player Fighting: D5C55D1E

Moon Gravity: BB013FFF

Fastest Logos: 7867F443

Taxi Driving: 312MF451

Enemies Can Not hear You: 4516DF45

The One:
To get Neo
F2222546

To get Trinity
00F58256

To get Morpheous
02568974


Various Phone Numbers:
001-949-555-0112
001-714-555-0187
001-213-555-0142
001-310-555-0111
001-949-555-0101
HACKING ENGINE TOOLS

Hacking engine tools:
In Hacking engine (which is accessed from the title screen), there are a number of directories and tools that can be useful (such as spawning a weapon within The Matrix.).


Command Effect
DIR <location> List files and folders
CLS Clear the screen of text
HELP <command> Extended help for a command
TRACEKILL Kills traces
READ Read *.txt files
VIEW View *.img files
PLAY Play *.fmv files
DROP JXTRR10 Weapon drop at Drainage Canal
DROP PNSRZ10 Weapon drop at North Concourse
DROP RKHMS10 Weapon drop at Airport Tunneld
DROP JDZMT10 Weapon drop at 2nd Floor West (Chateau)
DROP ZKHBD10 Weapon drop at Courtyard (Chateau)
DROP RHFTQ10 Weapon drop at Skyscraper
DROP ZSZQH10 Weapon drop at Warehouse (Chinatown)
DROP JDHQL10 Weapon drop at Transformer Field (power plant)
DROP B1AXXF2 Weapon drop at 2nd Floor PO Boxes

Morpheus message

In the Hacking engine, instead of using "GUEST", you can LOGIN as FREEMIND or COWBOYCURTIS to hear a message from Morpheus.

[Judge Pen]

I cheated. I beat it on hard, but not without cheating. I have no shame. I figure I droped $50 bucks on this **** game, I'm going to see it through one way or the other. Once you figure out where the enemies and items are it gets easier. You can kill agents too. The double DE .50 is sweet.

[MasterKiller]

YEah, the more I play it, the less I like it. I'm on the airport level right now. Basically, the levels are too short, and you can pretty much just run will-nilly around shooting without aiming too much. What's the point of having a reticle if you don't need to aim?

Atari should not have been given this title.

[Judge Pen]

Style over substance.

[Kristoffer]

amen...

[SevenStar]

TTT cuz I actually do want to hear what chis M's take on it is...

[Vash]

*cough*

Dayum this things dusty

*cough*

[SimonM]

The first matrix movie was good enough that I tried really hard to like the other two. It just didn't work. Matrix revolutions sucked hairy dog balls. I mean, one kung fu fight? And it was almost all CGI?

Also, why the hell didn't Zion just strip the EMP's off of the ships and stick a bunch of them in a sheilded room. Zap one bunch of sentinels and then wheel the next EMP. Rinse and repeat.

Also, on this topic, why the hell wern't the sentinels resistant to the EMP.

Also, if all the machines were self-aware, why were they willing to use the stupidest suicide tactics to kill Zion.

Also, how did the machines go from being bashed to pieces to having their own country in the middle east? Wern't the Israelis and the Palestinians and all the rest ****ed?

Also, how did the governments of the world allow the machines to kill all of their economies, wouldn't they have just done some industrial espionage and started building their own **** hovercars.

Also, why didn't nuclear weapons work during the war? Not only do they make big explosions that blow up huge urban centers (like 01) but also... wait for it...





















They produce a frigging huge EMP!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, the Matrix had too many holes. But the video game was fun.

[Shaolinlueb]

come on, one kung fu fight in the end for revolutions is your arguement? the thing was action packed and suspensful.

[MasterKiller]

The game sucked balls.

[Vash]

I'm looking forward to the Matrix Online.

[SimonM]

Originally posted by Shaolinlueb
come on, one kung fu fight in the end for revolutions is your arguement? the thing was action packed and suspensful.

No, having only one kung fu fight was a **** off but my argument is:

Not enough kung fu

Too many cheezy plot twists that don't make any sense

Too many holes

A human race defended by morons without the tactical abilities of a five year old playing king of the castle

Too many long staring face shots

Too much "Neo is Jesus" at the end.

It just wasn't a very good movie in general. Bad Wachowskies, no cookie for you.

[@PLUGO]

In the era of reboots I'm kind of surprised there's isn't already a MATRIX 2.0 or some such.


Do you take the blue pill or the red pill?
For Matrix fans everywhere who’d like to forget the poorly received Keanu Reeves-led sequels to the groundbreaking 1999 film from the Wachowski sisters, the answer is most certainly the blue pill.

But just this week, an old news item posted on Worst Previews made its way across Facebook, stoking the flame – and possible interest – in continuing the saga of the world-within-a-world, head trip of a blockbuster that completely redefined the action movie genre almost twenty years ago.

According to the article dated January 24, 2011, Keanu Reeves supposedly let fly at the London International School of Performing Arts that Matrix 4 and 5 were in the works.

“He spoke briefly about 47 Ronin and Bill and Ted 3,” the article reported. “But the big news came when Reeves revealed that he met with the Wachowskis around Christmas. They told him that they completed script treatments for two more Matrix installments. They are planning to make the films in 3D and have already met with James Cameron to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of the technology. Reeves added that he’s excited to return as Neo and promised that the treatments will truly revolutionize the action genre like the first Matrix film did.”

Meanwhile, Keanu Reeves is keeping busy with, of all things, politics. He was spotted this week on a surprise trip to the UK where he was supposedly meeting with conservative MP Nadhim Zahawi, according to AV Club. And while his appearance did send Twitter into a tizzy, the reason for his visit according to a tweet posted by MP Mark Pritchard confirmed he was simply there to lobby for expansion of film production in the region.


Met Keanu Reeves today to discuss expanding film production in west midlands not just in London pic.twitter.com/Zr4zZOKtLq
— Mark Pritchard (@MPritchardMP) June 28, 2016

Still, his visit inspired more Matrix memes across the internet, once again demonstrating how powerful the Wachowski sisters’ film trilogy has been. Who knows? We might be swallowing the red pill with Keanu Reeves soon enough.


Read more (http://www.inquisitr.com/3257349/keanu-reeves-returning-to-the-matrix-quotes-surface-online-but-producers-are-staying-mum/#TEDtPpPtbw0BgHYi.99)