View Full Version : Anti grappling in Kung Fu

Water Dragon
07-29-2000, 01:21 AM
I have a friend who was a high school wrestler. He is teaching me some of his stuff. I like it because his focus is on counters so that I don't hit the ground.

Last night he showed me this nice simple technique called a ****zer. When I tried it on him the guy went flying. Know why?

A ****zer is ward off, plain and simple. It even looks the same. I had the mechanics to power the **** out of it. But I needed him to show me it at first, cause I would have NEVER figured that one out by myself.

It makes sense though, cause you are actually warding the guy off /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Just wanted to share

Although there are many styles, they all depend on the strong beating the weak and the slow falling to the quick. These are not related to the power that must be learned -- Taiji Classics

Tai Mai Shu
07-30-2000, 03:33 AM
That's the way to be training! Gotta learn how to use the tools you have practically. Makes more sense to learn how to defend a takedown than it does to be practicing counters to "Dragon flies over the mountain and lashes his flaming tail".

I am Tai...I will help you.

dan downard
07-30-2000, 11:15 AM
I train BJJ at the Straightblast gym in Portland ,Oregon.I would like to invite any that would like to try a class to come down.You will be welcomed with open arms.

07-30-2000, 06:08 PM
Can someone explain the ****zer to me please?

07-30-2000, 06:35 PM
Well aparently it's ward off. Try to keep up. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Other than that I think it has something to do with drinking too much beer and sleeping late.


Jaguar Wong
07-30-2000, 06:50 PM
I've been practicing with a friend who's also a wrestler (as well as a little bjj that the started about 6 months ago). He has been working with us on actual groundfighting, but we were focusing on the sprawl a couple of weeks ago. You can really learn a lot about your own style when you play with others.

Tai Mai Shu, I agree with you to a certain extent, but what if someone uses the "Dragon flies over the mountain and lashes his flaming tail"? How do you expect me to survive if I never practice and prepare for it? /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Tai Mai Shu
07-31-2000, 03:33 AM

lol, as long as you stay away from Chinatown I think your chances of encountering an attack like that are lower than the chances of you being abducted and sexually abused by extraterrestrials. If you go to Chinatown on a regular basis, well then first learn how to defend yourself against indigestion...then we'll talk about countering the technique you described. Go in peace, my son /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I am Tai...I will help you.

07-31-2000, 05:07 AM
Hey I was abducted and sexually abused by hot extraterrestrial hooter babes from venus last night, but then I woke up.

Anyway, learning wrestling standup basics will help you immensely. If you know how to sprawl, apply wizzers & crossfaces etc. you become a grapplers nightmare. These techniques buy you time to use your striking techniques effectively. Lots of good books in the library demonstrating all these basics too. You have to practice them live though, this is where you build your balance and timing. Find a good wrestler and drill trying to maintain your feet using the basics while he tries to take you down, if he succeeds start back up again.

In a real fight against a non-grappler I have little fear of being eye-gouged when shooting etc. but if I shoot and the guy sprawls and stops my momentum, he's on top of my back and has lots of time to reach around and gouge or whatever so thats bad news for me.

08-01-2000, 05:46 PM
learning to defend a take down is the beginning.either way your done unless you have trained bjj.

08-01-2000, 08:42 PM
BJJ is no good if you can't take the guy down. You could boot scoot I guess /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

08-01-2000, 09:07 PM
JJJ, I had some pretty cool **** pulled on me last night.
I got put into the standing guilotine. No problem, I started to reach over the shoulder to relevie the pressure. As I did that, he leaned back, kicked his front leg up and sat down. Instand neck crank from hell. I tapped profusely.

Ever see this combination before? When he showed it too me, it looked simple and natural. He's a Greco Roman wrestler, but I was wondering if it was common for BJJ.


Paul DiMarino
08-01-2000, 09:24 PM
Did he sit back into the guard? That's my favorite neck crank. Wait a second. That's the only one I can pull off on a regular basis...

08-01-2000, 09:54 PM
Hey JWT,
The neck crank is hard to get out of, but the guillotine is easy to counter just throw your arm over his shoulder, get up on your toes butt in the air and drive your shoulder into his throat, use your free hand to try and relieve the pressure off your neck. Its a stalemate he doesen't have the leverage to finish so he will let go eventually.
One of the guys I train with is real good with the guillotine/neck crank & used to catch me real fast before I could counter, so now I make sure I keep my head up when I spar with him (its hard when you get tired though).

[This message has been edited by jjj (edited 08-02-2000).]

Jaguar Wong
08-01-2000, 10:57 PM
My legs cramp up on me whenever I crank the guillotine from the guard (well I'm actually hooking the legs at his knees). /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I usually am very tired at that point, so I tried something pretty drastic last Saturday. We started on our knees, so I tried to leap up and over his shoulder to take the back (he's about 6' - 6'1" and 240 lbs), but he kinda caught me like a pillow, so I grabbed his head as he dropped me on my back. I hooked his legs and cranked, and since I was relatively fresh, my legs didn't cramp up, but much to my dismay after exerting a great deal of my limited energy he just sat there relaxed thinking about what to do. He placed a hand on my shoulder (closer to the chest) and another on my elbow (around his head) and since I was really beat, he just popped his head out, grinnin' and all.

I was tappin' all day. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jaguar Wong
www.superaction.com (http://www.superaction.com)

08-01-2000, 11:10 PM
what is a ****zer/ward off?

i'm from wing chun you see......


08-02-2000, 02:10 AM
****ZER I think is similar to a sprawl except you're moving in a circular pattern when someones shoot for your leg...DON FRYE use this effectively against a GREAT BJJ tech. BITTI...Don Frye proceeded to elbow and knee the **** out of BITTI...learning anti takedown techs. are the KEY for guys trying to beat pure BJJ!!! You're not going to beat them on the ground with their game...but you can't beat the **** out of them if they cannot get you to da ground!

08-02-2000, 02:41 AM
sigh.. sorry lads, but what is a sprawl??

and no, i'm not TRYING to act st00pid



Water Dragon
08-02-2000, 03:02 AM
OK, This is what ward off looks like from the outside. I’m not even going to try and get into the internal mechanics. Stand in a front/bow and arrow/mountain climbing stance, right leg out front. Stick your right arm out in front of you like you are holding a baby with one arm. Now, turn to your right without moving your feet.

If you can picture someone going for a double leg takedown and you get your arm in their face before they can clinch and do that motion to their head, that’s a ****zer.

Although there are many styles, they all depend on the strong beating the weak and the slow falling to the quick. These are not related to the power that must be learned -- Taiji Classics