The (Serious) What's Your Favorite Throw Thread

[CrippledAvenger]

As the title mentions, what's your favorite throw? Let's keep this informative, with good discussion about technique, please. Try not to hijack this thread until page 3 at least. Please? ;)

Anyhow, I'm going to start with my favorite 3 at the moment--

Inner Leg Hooking-- for you non-Shuai Chiao peeps, that's essentially hooking a leg around the same side of the opponent's body, then yanking backwards while pushing forwards. It's a nice quick throw for me.

Iron Broom-- Essentially a sweep thrown with a mechanic oddly similar to a low thai roundhouse, except it starts at ground level and stays relatively low throughout the motion of the kick. Iron Broom to Backwards Kicking is really a nice, fun combo that might become one of my bread and butter throws.

Diagonal Cut-- This is my senior's favorite throw and it's beginning to be one of mine (even though he's better built for it than I am). It's essentially a backwards reaping throw that can target one or both legs. Works great for me as a counter. but not as a primary throw.

[count]

those are my favorite three too. can't add anything to your thread :p

[fa_jing]

My favorite because it's the easiest for me to pull off is the one on page 114 of Liang Shou Yu's book. "outer suspended leg hooking" I think it's called O Soto Gari in Judo. My favorite throw because it's the most fun and I think a devestating throw is Diagonal Cut, which again I think is closest to O Soto Gari.

[Kristoffer]

I like the simple hip throws and the variant neck throw (hip throw but grabbing the others neck).
Not sure why I like them, I always like keeping controll over the neck. Clinching is fun

[Oso]

is still an Osotogari.

w/o a doubt the most common throw irregardless of style.

and my favorite as well.

simple and direct.

2nd favorite is the throwing application of the 'slant flying' move from most tai chi forms.

deflect and flank to outside of incoming punch
stepping behind lead leg w/ lead leg
cut back across body w/ lead arm

[yenhoi]

Puter Kapela - "Head turning throw" "all paths lead to puter kapela."

Inner leg hooking to ankle block - learned this in Judo recently. If you hook his leg and dont get the throw, drive forward slightly and hop a little, then plant your hooking leg straight down and block his other ankle with your other leg, sometimes he needs an extra tug, onto his face.

Of course o soto gari.

:eek:

[Brad Souders]

here are my three favorite

1. inside sag / o ouchi (my japanese sucks) / inside wrestler trip:

Arm tie up - side i'm tripping to has an overhook (my arm wrapped up over his, and my other arm is grabbing his other wrist)

tech - lets say i'm sweeping to my right so his right arm is overhooked. I sweep my right leg between his legs. My leg then hook behind his left leg. Now i throw my upperbody to the right as i drop my hips into his body and kick my right leg back hooking his leg and dragging him down. U should pull on the overhook upward and back almost enough that it alone should off balance him.

2. Bear hug trip

Arm tie up - Any

tech - This is a common takedown but we do ours a little different.
generally people try the trip while still standing. This can easily be countered with a hip toss. I like to dip low when doing it. So if i'm attacking his right leg. My left leg goes behind the outside of his leg as i drop to my knees. As i'm falling i bang the whole upper portion of my body into his thigh. This gets u so deep that if he doesn't go down u could hyperextend the knee.

side note - if he steps out of the trip continue your bend leg through and walk yourself up into a double leg takedown.


3. Flying triangle

*not one for everyone* I'm small and liek to do **** like this only hit it once in a competition though.

arm tie up - same as inside sag

tech- say i have the right arm overhooked again. I yank forward with that overhook. As he bend forward i jump into his body. My left hand pulls down his right arm and i swing my left leg over top it. As i land my right leg goes straight to scissor my legs. From there work to basic triangle postion and finish.

example of this *where i stole the grip* Genki Sudo UFC and his matches from submissionfighter.com

Brad Souders

[Water Dragon]

1. Diagonal Cut
2. Front Raise
3. Chopping

[Meat Shake]

Hmm...
Inner leg hooking...
Shaving... Love shaving...
Neck surrounding...
And this combo throw... For when you botch a hip throw or pulling or something, and wind up with your thigh lifting theirs, then just kick the other leg out from under them. Works great.
:)

[ShaolinTiger00]

my favorite renkuwaza (http://www.mma.tv/tuf/DisplayMessages.cfm?TID=317315&P=2&FID=22)

and many more.

[SevenStar]

Tani otoshi - valley drop
Tai otoshi - body drop
hiza guruma - knee wheel

many, many more

diiagonal cut / o soto gari is great, but IMO, too hard to actually get against an experienced guy unless you get it from an odd angle. you're not gonna (IME) just rush in and get an o soto. it's either gotta be done in combination or at an angle other than staright ahead.

[SevenStar]

I bumped the ultimate grappling thread - -there's good stuff there.... 14 pages with no jacking so far

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by yenhoi
Puter Kapela - "Head turning throw" "all paths lead to puter kapela."

Inner leg hooking to ankle block - learned this in Judo recently. If you hook his leg and dont get the throw, drive forward slightly and hop a little, then plant your hooking leg straight down and block his other ankle with your other leg, sometimes he needs an extra tug, onto his face.

Of course o soto gari.

:eek:

I like puter kepala also. Matter of factly, I've been using a derivative of that as one of my AIM handles since about 1996

[Merryprankster]

Tani Otoshi counterthrow

Uchimata-Tai Otoshi

Uchimata-Ko Uchi Gari-O Uchi Gari

O Uchi Gari-Uchimata-Ko Uchi Gari

Ko Uchi Gari-O Uchi Gari-Uchimata....

Seeing a pattern here? :D

I'll hit a drop seoi nage occasionally, if it's there.

What really makes me a ***** though, isn't my throwing, which is mediocre. It's my gripfighting, which is very good for my experience level, if I do say so myself. Can't throw me if you can't get a grip.... :D

Of course, ST00 whacked me with a beaut of a Yama Arashi the last time we judo-ed. I think it's to make up for the no-hands-foot sweep (ashi type throw for you Judoka) I nailed him with months ago.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Of course, ST00 whacked me with a beaut of a Yama Arashi the last time we judo-ed. I think it's to make up for the no-hands-foot sweep (ashi type throw for you Judoka) I nailed him with months ago.

MP has grabbed the correct by the lapels and has launched it thru the air..

btw MP -it was a no-handed deashi harai.

and a beautiful one at that..


(I'll never forget.. or forgive you...:mad: :D )

[Merryprankster]

ST00,

Check your hotmail--and, I miss NIH. Just BJJ Busy...

[Chang Style Novice]

Parting the horse's mane.

[Oso]

"parting the horse's main"

I was taught it as 'pat the high horse'. same move I'm sure.

???

got me there, bro. wait....hmmmm, maybe.

ok, how are you throwing with that?

[Chang Style Novice]

pat the high horse is different.

Part the horse's mane is where you come around the outside gate, plant the inside foot behind both legs of your opponent, get the near arm with your outside arm, reach your inside arm under the armpit and across the chest (or you might wanna grab onto some jawbone here) and pull him backwards across the leg you've got blocking his escape route. This leaves him on his back with the legs away from you and his arm in the crook of your elbow with the forearm held by the other hand. If you can't finish from here, you just ain't trying.

[Christopher M]

Puter kepala!

[Chang Style Novice]

Christopher -

Do you mean to say pooter kepala is the same as parting the horse's mane?

If so, I did not know that!

[yenhoi]

puter kapela is basically just turning someones head until they hit the ground.

see yourself grabbing someones head and one arm, then stuffing their head through the armpit of the arm you hold.

snap!

;)

[yenhoi]

Its really just a kind of throw, not a specific throw.

:cool:

[Christopher M]

No, not at all... it's just my favorite throw.

I think parting the horses main would be called kenjit in indonesian. Another great one, certainly.

[Oso]

hm, ok, then that is what I refer to as 'slant flying'.

any one got a picture of 'puter kapela' in action? it sounds like what I was taught as "Mobility Throw" Capitalization is intentional as that was the emphasis placed on the name.

damm, crazy cracker names.

would PK be an indonesian name?

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Christopher M
No, not at all... it's just my favorite throw.

I think parting the horses main would be called kenjit in indonesian. Another great one, certainly.

yeah, that sounds like kenjit - but with kenjit, I was taught to use that elbow also - more of a strike than push, so they go back and downwards

[SevenStar]

puter kepala (http://www.authenticbeladiri.com/s1.htm)

[SevenStar]

another application of puter kepala (http://www.dogbrothers.com/bytes.htm)

[Oso]

THANKS !

yep, that is exactly what I was taught as "Mobility Throw"

this came from Remy Presas' Modern Arnis.

Usually set up from decadena on the inside.

anybody else add a knee at about pic s1-4 ?

[Christopher M]

Originally posted by Oso
anybody else add a knee at about pic s1-4?

Oh yes.

I really just think of it as a manipulation to lead into stuff like that, rather than as a complete technique used as a throw. But then, that's how I try to think of everything people call throws.

[Water Dragon]

puter kapela = mopping

[Chang Style Novice]

Oso -

I don't think slanting fly and parting the horse's mane are the same. In slanting fly you move in from the front, step behind opponent and kick back to get the guy's leg in the air while you push forward on his chest (so he falls backward), right? With "parting..." you'd approach from the side, come under his arm so you're pulling to both your and his rear (you're facing more or less the same direction now) and bring him down to your left if you've got his right arm. If you kick his leg out, you'll be kicking forward. Wish I had a photo of an application so I could be more clear about this.

With slanting, you end up with his feet toward you, with parting, the feet are away. At least the way I'm defining the throws.

[Oso]

CSN, I looked around for some picks but didn't find too many application pics for tai chi either.

the form I do is a modified version of short yang (to the best of my knowledge, anyway) I don't have a move called 'parting..' by name so I'll have to play through it later and see if I have an analog to what you are describing.

{gets up and dances around office}

and what you are describing as 'parting...' sounds like what I'm calling slant flying.

my usual app for slant flying is to flank and enter with the shoulder strike to the ribs while warding with the same arm across the chest. In doing this I have moved the same side foot/leg behind their near leg and am hoping to uproot w/ my base as I extend through their centerline with my posture.
I may have the near side wrist in my off hand but not always.

If that fails then I might grab and twist through them.


your description of your slant flying sounds like 'diagonal cut' or 'osotogari'.

http://www.judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/osotogari.htm

[Water Dragon]

Quick point on the whole O Soto Gari/Diagonal Cut thing. IMO, O Soto Gari is a 'variation' of Diagonal Cut, but not necesarily the same.

The idea in O Soto Gari s to reap out the leg to throw the guy (Correct me if I'm wrong here ST00, 7*, MP)

The idea of Diagonal Cut is to create a line of force and then cut it at an angle, usually 45 degrees. So Diagonal Cut can be performed with the reap, by just standing there, by walking through the guy, by kicking out the leg instead of reaping, using the shoulder, etc. It's all Diagonal Cut because it all cuts the line in one way or another.

OK, that's enough theory for today.

[Merryprankster]

You don't have to use the reap for O Soto Gari.

In fact, a few Judoka that I know will tell you that you should really throw them with your coming in. The leg reap's help.

[ShaolinTiger00]

lmao ! I was spending the last 5 minutes trying to write what MP said in 2 sentences..

the "reap" is just the easiest way to remove the leg. it aids the throw. (competition osoto is different - hooking and pulling it in while driving to the corner)

It's the kuzushi to the back corner that makes it work..

A guy at our club can do it and literally just rip you backwards without even reapinging the leg.. his kuzushi, chect to chest contact and speed make it very dynamic.

[Merryprankster]

Right. The real trick is that chest to chest contact while:

1. Freezing the leg you're going to dump them over to the mat
2. Leaning FORWARD as you drive.

[Merryprankster]

ON an unrelated note, I just ipponed the **** out of some Vindaloo. I make a MEAN curry.

[SevenStar]

I'm not so sure that mopping = puter kepala... puter doesn't involve that head jerk that mopping does. It's more of a neck twisting.

[Black Jack]

puter kapela and its head/neck turning variants.

Head lock throw-cross buttock

Backwards and forward leg sweeps and sapu ankle sweeps

I always thought the flying mare looked interesting as a throw

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
It's the kuzushi to the back corner that makes it work..

[ShaolinTiger00]

More than a year ago, I was competing in one my first judo tournaments and an opponent Ripped into me with o soto kuzushi that would make a freight train jealous. I was completely at his will. and I was ipponed so hard that I heard the entire crowd go "OOOOOOHHHHHHh"

I just rrememberred looking at the gymnasium lights and then laughing. we came to the line and I couldn't do anything but smile.

It was beautiful. judo -mutual benefit and welfare...

Sunday it was a little different :D shameful bragging. (http://www.mma.tv/tuf/DisplayMessages.cfm?TID=317315&P=2&FID=22)

;)

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by SevenStar
I'm not so sure that mopping = puter kepala... puter doesn't involve that head jerk that mopping does. It's more of a neck twisting.

Hmm, I don't do mopping with a jerk. You may be right though. Myoung used to use both terms for the same throw, so maybe I'm just assuming.

[Chang Style Novice]

Well, that O-soto-gari looks like exactly what I THOUGHT was meant by slanting fly. So chalk that one up to bothersome vocabulary. And you're diagonal cut does sound suspiciously like parting the horse's mane the way you describe it. So I guess chalk that one up to bothersome vocabulary, too.

I just hope we mean the same thing by "pat the high horse", which is another good'un.

1 - Step forward between the opponent's feet.

2 - Wrap the opposite leg around the outside of your opponent's calf to stop backward movement on that side

2 - use the hand opposite the forward foot to control the opponent at the small of the back to prevent backward movement on the other side.

3 - Use the free hand to push forward on the center of his chest.

4 - Faw down go boom.

[Oso]

:)
thanks all for correction and education on osotogari and diaganol cut.

I've only been shown osotogari w/ the reap.

I understand the kazushi manipulation as key and have done other stuff in kung fu that was just that w/o the reaping.

CSN, nope...again. :)

I've been meaning to get my ******* tai chi form on tape.

RD and I were going to have a contest to see who did it better and Rub was going to judge:p

for me, Pat the High Horse does several things, 1 is an arm drag from inside, the other a head cranking throw from outside, the third is just a strike.

not a lot of time now to try and write it out. maybe a project to try and get on the website.

[neigung]

I really don't know what most of these are called in other arts, aside from one, but here are mine...

pulling (I think the closest thing to this in judo is the body drop throw)
chopping
neck surround leg blocking
knee seizing
elbow locking
pulling arm kicking

if anyone knows what these are in judo etc. feel free to translate

[MonkeySlap Too]

Puter Kepala and forward mopping (at least the variants I am referring to here) are the same throw. Some schools do not use the 'head rolling' for the puter, but the pukulan and kun tao guys do...It's a pretty versatile concept with a wide range of technical expresion - me, I like forward mopping with forward march...

[SevenStar]

coo - we only did it with the neck turn, not the head roll. This is a great tidbit for the Ultimate Grappling Thread

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by neigung
I really don't know what most of these are called in other arts, aside from one, but here are mine...

pulling (I think the closest thing to this in judo is the body drop throw)
chopping
neck surround leg blocking
knee seizing
elbow locking
pulling arm kicking

if anyone knows what these are in judo etc. feel free to translate

pulling - tai otoshi
neck surround - koshi guruma
neck surround with leg block would be similar to o soto makikomi, and to harai goshi if you sweep with the leg
elbow locking is used in entries to throws, like the shoulder throw.

describe pulling arm kicking and knee seizing

[Liokault]

Step up raise hands.

[neigung]

knee seizing -
my right hand on your right shoulder, my left hand goes to the side or back of your right knee, then the hands turn like you would a steering wheel.

pulling arm kicking -
both hands pull one of your arms as my body hops along side, then I pull backwards on your shoulder or head and kick your foot out from under you.

Basic descriptions, hope you can understand them.

[Water Dragon]

On knee seizing, I like to push on the shoulder, and then when you try to step out and escape the throw, smack you hard in the back of the knee. Gives you more of an "WTF just happened to me" thingy going on.

[neigung]

That sounds pretty good, I'll have to try that one.
When I get a half as sed knee seizing going (ie, less upper body control than I'd like, but good control on the knee), I just start running them backwards. 2 or 3 steps and they've tumbled. Or if you have the position, stick one of your feet behind theirs...knee seizing with either shaving or an outside dull sickle, depending on which foot you use.

[Water Dragon]

The one I like is, when knee seizing fails, take the hand that slapped the knee and change the grip to their elbow and continue stepping out into Diagonal Cut. Reap out both legs. If the cut fails, steal step backward with lead leg and go into neck surround.

That sounds like a good drill for Saturday, no?

[CrippledAvenger]

D@mn right, it does. :D

[Chang Style Novice]

http://www.takwah.com/taichi/steps.htm

This page shows some line drawings of "part the horse's mane" at 5-10, left right and then left again. No applications, though.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Water Dragon
On knee seizing, I like to push on the shoulder, and then when you try to step out and escape the throw, smack you hard in the back of the knee. Gives you more of an "WTF just happened to me" thingy going on.

sounds like kuchiki taoshi - falling tree throw.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by neigung

pulling arm kicking -
both hands pull one of your arms as my body hops along side, then I pull backwards on your shoulder or head and kick your foot out from under you.


Sounds like an o soto gari variation.

[neigung]

I just google searched o soto gari; not close at all.
In pulling arm kicking, both people are facing the same direction (after the hop).
I found a site with animations of judo throws, so I'll look for the closest approximation and post it in a few min.

[Oso]

CSN, cool. Except that we keep the lower hand closer to the elbow that's what we do as 'ward right, left then right again'

the beginning of that set is exactly like ours except we 'capture ball' the other way and 'part mane' right-left-right.

but then it completely diverges.

more tomorrow.

[neigung]

http://www.judoinfo.com/techdraw.htm

I just went through all of those throws and not one is even close to what I'm talking about.
Anyone know of other sites that list throws w/pics?

[SevenStar]

for which technique, pulling with kicking? if so, then you probably won't find a picture... there are like 2398234 different variations of o soto gari

[SevenStar]

http://www.judoinfo.com/images/nauta/kibisu.gif

may be a little closer to knee seizing than kuchiki taioshi