Holding Back VS Contact

[Pika817]

Hello Everybody,

I have seen a few posts about some WC practitioners "sparring" with protective gear. We don't make full contact at the school I attend. Instead, if we have and opening, we will just touch the person where we could have hit.

For example, in chi sau, if we find an openning to the head, we will not execute a full punch. We would strike out and upon the point of contact, just lightly slap or tap the person to let them know that they are open.

For those that have full contact chi sau, how has it changed the way you fight? Do you become more aware of the potential threat from the opponent and therefore become more sensitive to evasion/trapping? Or has it made you become more offensive?

For those of you that do not make full contact, how do you train to get around this problem?

I feel that in a real situation, I won't be able to have the same control using full power.

Any thoughts would be helpful.

[anerlich]

We spar full contact, but only with protective equipment (mouthpiece,cup gloves, headguard, shinpads). Ther's no point trying to really damage each other, you either spend too much time unable to train due to injury or run out of training partners.

One of my KF teachers used to tell me "a good boxer is stung frequently and hurt occasionally." He used to occasionally put a reasonably powerful shot in, I remember a lot of momentary agony, but no significant injuries.

You need to temper yourself physically and psychologically in order to be able to fight, to take it as well as dish it out. This isn't possible without progressively harder contact. You can drill techniques and discuss principles as long as you want, but the fastest way to learn to successfully neutralise a punch is to know it's going to clock you one if you mess it up, and get clocked by it if you do.

In BJJ, you are taught armbar defenses. You have two ways to instill these into your arsenal: drill them incessantly for two years and hope they work when someone REALLY wants to put that armbar on you, or ask a higher belt to do nothing but try to catch you with armbars for an hour. The second way is much more effective, there is no substitute for this type of training.

Big difference between being able to make something "work" in a non contact situation and know that it will actually do something useful against someone with bad intentions.

I don't think anyone does "full contact chi sao". It's a sensitivity drill, not a fight, and you can't really do it with gear on. We put mouthguards in, and, rather than just touching the person, we might go medium contact to the torso and maybe a slap to the cheek.

Although in my last grading, "chi sao with Sifu" left me with two black eyes, and one side of my body red and bruised, including a palm print bruise so perfectly formed that the thumb and first three fingers and part of the pinkie could be individually made out. But that was a senior grading, none of the injuries were anything but superficial and I was back at training two days later. Some people seem to think that if they get hit with a punch their skull is going to explode or something.

You don't have to go hard all the time. But you do have to some of the time.

[Pika817]

Anerlich,

Thanks for your insight on this topic. I totally agree with what you are saying. I just wished that the school I attend allows us to go "all out" once in a while with protective gear.

Pika817

P.S. Nice comment about punches making heads explode! Some sort Dim Mak type move! LOL

[Ernie]

like every thing it's attribute development and teaching your mind and body to take it up a notch . if all you do is touch you never develop the balance and power to go through your target , also the mental commit ment not over commiment that might happen when you really have to do it and never practice at a high stress level .
like anything you have to keep turning up the pressure to gain the right results .
but not all the time don't go hardcoreing everything then you loss your finesse , it's a balance between the two

[Keng Geng]

There should be no such thing. That's not what chi sau is for. Any punches made should only be for the purpose of positioning your arms in a more advantageous way. Sometimes the muscle tension created by the formation and thrusting of a punch is exactly what is needed to get closer to your opponent, without needing to hit. Hitting is the easy part, the rest is what is the challenge.

[KenWingJitsu]

lmao

[Frank Exchange]

You can do chisao in any number of different ways. You can do it as an energy sensitivity drill, or you can try to hit each other. You can put in footwork, kicks, starting from a distance, or from arm contact, whatever the hell you want.

We do it light to medium heavy contact without pads, depending on the skill of the students involved. So, you get cut lips and bruises all the time. If you have never got whacked on the nose, it can be a very salutary learning experience. However, the better you get, the less you get hit.

Occaisonally we go all out if the practioners are very advanced, ie a high level student would really have a go at the instructor.

Going at it with power before you can deal with the power is stupid, and just flailing away trying to take the guys head off all the time can instill many bad habits. However, never dealing or giving out power is just as bad, and every one needs a good flail every now and then, IMO.

Hell, these things often look and sound worse than they are anyway. I got bee-atch slapped by my mate the other day, and the entire class stopped, as it really reverberated around, a real teeth rattler, they thought I was going down. If he had followed up, I would have been out for the count, undoubtably, as it totally destroyed my concentration and offensive capability, but 10 seconds later I was fine. The point is, that experience is needed, as it will happen in a real fight, and I have to deal with it and keep up with the offence.

As Wong Shun Leung liked to point out, nobody is a superman, and you will get hit in a fight. Learn to deal with it.

And let no one forget the teaching power of the mouth ulcer! The cut inside your mouth which forms a yellow tinged beauty, and reminds you for days of the hit you failed to counter. Hmm, perhaps I should buy some shares in Bonjela....

[Ultimatewingchun]

Anerlich:

Excellent post from A to Z !!!

[Keng Geng]

Everything has its purpose. You don't full out punch while doing single hand chi sau (well, hopefully not), so why would you do it in double hand chi sau. The exercise is the exercise, and has a number of purposes. There are other exercises for full out punching, but it's not in the chi sau. Punching hard in chi sau is like an idiot stating the obvious.

[anerlich]

Thanks, Pika, Victor.

KWJ comment was also appropriate.

[russellsherry]

hi guys, pika training with head gear and the like is good , but
you dont wear it in the street, to me take it as a part of training . but dont think, it is the real deal ,footwork chi sau body postioning, trapping is more important than contact sparring although it does have its place remember ifa guy has a blade you cant bloak it with gloves peace russell sherry