Guns and MA's...hahaha

[Fu-Pow]

I just went to the firing range for the first time and shot some hand guns yesterday.

I tried a Daewoo Semi-Automatic, a single action 38 revolver and a smaller semi-automatic.

That's some scary **** man. The next time I hear or read something about someone doing a gun disarm I'm going to laugh my ass off.

When you've got a double action hand gun pointed out you, you might have 3 shots in you before you can even blink let alone try to take the gun away.

Peace.

[Ray Pina]

I'm going to shoot my brothers new shottie this weekend. I've never fired a real gun before and look forward to it.

[Meat Shake]

Its ok... Depends on what you are shooting. :eek:
I prefer just taking a shottie or rifle out for a walk in the country, just putting rounds into whatever seems appropriate. :eek:
Havent shot a gun in ages...

[Suntzu]

in my younger... dumber days... a buddy of mine had a sawed off shotty... don't know where he got it from tho... just for fun we would point it at each other... it was empty... a gun pointing at you creates the illest sensation... goes right to your spine.... you want to look away but one eye ALWAYS seems to focus on the barrel............ and that's when u KNOW it's not loaded.... hate to know what it feels like to have a live one pointed at you.......

[Meat Shake]

Yeah... Even when a gun is unloaded I get really uncomfortable having it pointed anywhere near me...

[CaptinPickAxe]

The only gun I'll buy is a Desert Eagle .50 (A.K.A. the little hand cannon) Everything else is just a waste of money.

[Meat Shake]

Mosberg...
Nice silver with black pump and handle. Pistol grip, of course.

[CaptinPickAxe]

A vile of nerve gas, beat that punk.

[Meat Shake]

A crack addicted midget with an inferiority complex and a machine gun. Buy them whole sale at disgruntledmidgetsdirect.com!

[CaptinPickAxe]

catch more z's than Rip Van Winkles 12 step narcolepsy siminar.

[Meat Shake]

colonel mustard was framed ******!
Im cruising over there.
Peaceout.

[BentMonk]

I've been shooting since I was a kid. I was taught gun safety, and to treat a gun as if it were loaded at all times, no matter how sure you were that it wasn't. I enjoy shooting all types of guns for fun on the range. I don't own one personally. I am thinking of buying one, and getting a concealed carry permit. I haven't decided for sure yet. I also agree with Fu-pow, so called disarming tecniques only work in the movies. In the real world that chit will get you shot. OMG, I just agreed with Fu-Pow! :D

[Fu-Pow]

Thanks for derailing my thread guys.

[dwid]

Thanks for derailing my thread guys.

It's not like it had much potential to last very long without being derailed. The few people on here who still believe gun disarms work are probably afraid to voice their opinions at this point. Everyone else agrees with you, so there's no argument.

Anyway, having a gun pointed at you would suck. I had what was most likely not a gun in someone's jacket pocket pointed at me a long time ago, and the possibility of it being a gun was scary enough.

[Black Jack]

I am not afraid to voice my viewpoint. It's not about having a specific by rote gun defense. Its about just having a understanding of those basic principles involved if you are forced to take action and are given the needed opportunity.

There are times when a person may very well want to consider taking his chances with a attacker armed with a firearm as the outcome of following his orders may be just as lethal as fighting him off if not worse.

Getting into a car, getting tied up, and so forth......

A few weeks ago I posted a link to a torture and murder where a man was brought into a van by gunpoint for drugmoney.

btw- the desert eagle has to be one of the most absurd guns for civilan self protection. The thing is absurd.

[Starchaser107]

I usually tend to be in agreement with this type of reasoning, as above in BJ's post.
the odds might be slim but , i suppose there are cases when it is definately better to take the chance. is this post suggesting that martial artists Do Not train gun defense?

I think a more appropriate statement is, TRAIN GUN DEFENSE

but do not be fooled by a FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY.

anything is worth a try when there's so much at stake.

win or lose , it's that simple.

you can laugh, but , I'll continue to train, maybe it works , maybe not.

[joedoe]

Originally posted by Black Jack
I am not afraid to voice my viewpoint. It's not about having a specific by rote gun defense. Its about just having a understanding of those basic principles involved if you are forced to take action and are given the needed opportunity.

There are times when a person may very well want to consider taking his chances with a attacker armed with a firearm as the outcome of following his orders may be just as lethal as fighting him off if not worse.

Getting into a car, getting tied up, and so forth......

A few weeks ago I posted a link to a torture and murder where a man was brought into a van by gunpoint for drugmoney.

btw- the desert eagle has to be one of the most absurd guns for civilan self protection. The thing is absurd.

I can't believe it - I actually agree with BJ on something :D

[Nick]

Didn't somebody post a video or link to a video of some monk doing a real-live gun disarm on some guy in a parking lot?

Later...

[ZhouJiaQuan]

did anyone see the video there playing on the news with the lawyer getting shot?

this guy walks up to this lawyer, pulls out a revolver and shoots him 1 or 2 times, then the guy who was shot gets behind a tree and the guy aims the gun at one side of the tree, the lawyer ducks to the other, then the gunner moves to that side of the tree and the lawyer moves to the other, they do this dance for 3-4times i guess. then when the gun was empty the shooter just walked away, and the got tackled by an off duty cop. and the lawyer is still walking around(adrenaline must be some strong ish). its was really wierd to watch. truth is stranger then fiction sometimes i guess.

(it was caught on camera because it was outside a courthouse that a big trail was going on at)

btw CPA - lay off the aesop quotes haha

[Ikken Hisatsu]

the problem is most people are thick. the kind of people who think having a black belt automatically makes you a master of fisticuffs are going to have a false sense of security if someone points a gun at them. this is a VERY bad thing. I personally don't care if someone that stupid gets killed, but it would reflect badly on the teacher. which is one of the reasons i feel many instructors dont teach gun defense (apart from the fairly obvious fact that if someones going to shoot you they probably won't stand right next to you and give you time to grab the weapon- another thing that only happens in movies)

[rogue]

I think a more appropriate statement is, TRAIN GUN DEFENSE but do not be fooled by a FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY.
Agreed. Good training for gun assaults will actually give you a better idea of what your odds are for success.

Agree with you about the DE, BJ. Nice gun but a pain to pack.



the problem is most people are thick. the kind of people who think having a black belt automatically makes you a master of fisticuffs are going to have a false sense of security if someone points a gun at them. this is a VERY bad thing. I personally don't care if someone that stupid gets killed, but it would reflect badly on the teacher. I do hope you're joking.

which is one of the reasons i feel many instructors dont teach gun defense (apart from the fairly obvious fact that if someones going to shoot you they probably won't stand right next to you and give you time to grab the weapon- another thing that only happens in movies) You're assuming that most instructors have a clue about dealing with a gun assault. They don't. As far as distance did you see the video of what happened outside the LA courthouse? Most people can't hit jack **** with a hand gun, even at pretty close range.

[Ikken Hisatsu]

Originally posted by Ikken Hisatsu
which is one of the reasons i feel many instructors dont teach gun defense (apart from the fairly obvious fact that if someones going to shoot you they probably won't stand right next to you and give you time to grab the weapon- another thing that only happens in movies)

I didnt think my english was that difficult to understand....

As for my first statement how about this-

One of Joe Sifus students was held up recently with a gun, so Joe Sifu decides a few pointers in gun situations wouldnt go amiss. (he is proficient in disarming people- in fact he was the champion of the international disarming people league for 3 years running)

While Joe Sifu stresses that this should ONLY be used in a situation where the only alternative is death, some fool walks out feeling bullet proof. later on, someone sticks him up for his wallet. moron tries to defend and gets shot and killed. Joe Sifus reputation goes down the toilet- everyone accuses him of teaching wrong or inspiring a foolish sense of confidence. Joe Sifu is ruined, his wife leaves him for the milkman, and he ends his days playing tekken 12 while crying into his (cheap) beer.

All of Joe Sifus peers hear about this, look at each other and say a collective "f*ck that for a joke"

[rogue]

What the hell are you talking about?

[Meat Shake]

Dude, everybody knows that I'm the champion for the people who disarm people league.
Pppppfffft.

[SanSoo Student]

What distance would a gun disarming tech work?
How would it work from a frontal versus a hold up from the side?

[Ikken Hisatsu]

the problem lies in speed. obviously you gotta be pretty quick to get the gun pointing away from you, whether you dodge (in which case he will just follow) or whether you smack it out of the way. the problem comes from the fact that you have no idea how fast the other guy is. its a gamble I certainly wouldn't want to take unless I was certain he would kill me otherwise.

[sticky fingers]

Originally posted by Fu-Pow
I tried a Daewoo Semi-Automatic, a single action 38 revolver and a smaller semi-automatic.

That's some scary **** man. The next time I hear or read something about someone doing a gun disarm I'm going to laugh my ass off.



geez, I thought Daewoo only made cars

[dwid]

geez, I thought Daewoo only made cars

Well, if they make guns as good as they make cars....

Anyway, BJ, I agree with you that training is still worthwhile. The situation presented was one where a gun was actually pointed at you, which to me is obviously the worst type of gun scenario. At that point, I suppose it's a judgment call as to whether the person intends to kill you.

Also, regarding the Desert Eagle, you might as well start using an AK for home defense. It's like the .454; I think most people who have one just like the attention they get on the range. Seems like a big waste of money.

[neigung]

Well...a .50 will definitely drop someone no matter where you hit them.
If I'm in the situation that I actually need to shoot someone, I want to make sure that f ucker is going to drop no matter what. Get the .50 :)

[Meat Shake]

A D.E. is just one hard ass piece. No questions asked. I want a D.E. and a Mosberg for the house. I dont need to carry where Im at now, but if I ever had to for some odd reason, Id go with a 9mm.

[BentMonk]

So how does one realistically practice disarming someone with a gun? The only way I could see you getting any kind of real feedback on the effectiveness of your techniques would be by using a paintball gun or the like. Has anyone on here really worked on this? Does anyone know of someone using said techniques in the real world? I'm just curious. Although I have to agree with those who have said that if they knew they were more than likely going to get shot anyway, you might as well go out swinging.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by sticky fingers


geez, I thought Daewoo only made cars

My first VCR was a Daewoo. :p

MS, 9mms have a nice velocity to them, but the bullet doesn't have the same knock down power a .45 automatic would have to it. My dad is a hunter and a gun afficiando and I have been around guns all of my life. I have no false sense of security if someone pointed a gun at me. Do what they want unless you reasonably belive they will kill you or someone you care about.

I don't care how fast you are or how much training you have, their trigger finger is likely faster than your best "disarming" technique.

[dwid]

Well...a .50 will definitely drop someone no matter where you hit them.

No offense, but it doesn't sound like you have much experience with guns. Lots of things will drop someone no matter where you hit them. A .45 auto, a 12 gauge, and neither of these has the problem a .50 would likely have of going through the person, through your wall, and still having enough kinetic energy to kill someone else.

Lots of weapons are good for home defense, a DE isn't one of them. They look really cool, and they're available with gold plating for that gangsta look, but practical home defense they are not.

[Fred Sanford]

shot placement is more important than caliber.

the DE .50 is a joke

[dwid]

shot placement is more important than caliber.

Amen to that.

Unless we're talking about a zombie apocalypse, which I'm willing to discuss with anyone who wants to take the thread in that direction, putting even one or two low-caliber rounds into most intruders' center of mass will, at the very least, make them rethink their desire to victimize your particular household.



;)

[FatherDog]

I have very little practical knowledge of guns, but everyone I know who does (ie, military, police, and/or hardcore shooters) are pretty united in saying that the DE is an "armchair shooter's" piece (i.e., no one who actually uses guns would use one.)

[dwid]

I concur.

I know some **** hardcore shooters, and the DE never even comes up in conversations about quality handguns.

[MasterKiller]

I have a Security Six .357, never shot it, though. Someone gave it to me because they owed me money, and I'm not exactly sure it's legal.

[joedoe]

I'd heard the Israeli army use the DE as a side arm. Can anyone confirm this?

Seems to me to be some serious overkill in a handgun. I can understand its use in a military situation, but for personal protection it seems to be a case of using a hammer to kill a fly.

[dwid]

I'd heard the Israeli army use the DE as a side arm. Can anyone confirm this?

I would be profoundly surprised if this were true. Given the fact that a lot of the Israeli army is composed of teenagers, more or less, and the carbine they use is only a 9mm, it would seem odd that their sidearm would be so much larger. It would be highly impractical for any military to use such a large and unwieldy gun as the sidearm. The whole point of a sidearm, especially in military applications, is it is highly maneuverable for use in tight spaces, under diress, etc...

I would wager dollars to donuts that whatever sidearm the Israeli's use, it is a 9mm or something in that range.

Well, if this info is reliable...according to this website, the DE is the weapon of choice for Israeli police.

http://www.planethalflife.com/borkedhazard/weapons.asp

I just noticed this is a video game site, so I wouldn't stake much on the quality of info, but who knows.

:D

[joedoe]

That all makes sense.

[Fu-Pow]

I don't care how fast you are or how much training you have, their trigger finger is likely faster than your best "disarming" technique.
I don't care how fast you are or how much training you have, their trigger finger is likely faster than your best "disarming" technique.

That was my whole point.

[rogue]

I don't care how fast you are or how much training you have, their trigger finger is likely faster than your best "disarming" technique. Fu-Pow, your not trying to be faster than the trigger finger or the bullet. And who said anything about wanting to disarm the assaulter? We're hoping to use blanks for practice as soon as we can make them and test them. Gotta get the amount of powder right.

[Meat Shake]

haters. :eek:

A DE is just super cool. Im not ever going to use my ****ing swords either, now am I? So who cares if I decide to waste money on a gangsta ass sterling silver DE .50 with 24K accent pieces.
:p

[dwid]

Well, if you don't intend to use it, get some kind of replica or something. It will be lots cheaper, and as long as you keep people from examining it closely, you can be every bit as cool.

In this case, I recommend going with dual 24K replicas, so you can pretend to be Nicolas Cage's character from Face-Off

:D

[Stranger]

1) The DE .50 is for guys with little d1cks and no common sense. It is a first rate piece of junk that doesn't shoot accurately or reliably under adverse conditions.

2) There are ways to counter the gun. Fu-Pow's post does not suprise me in light of his admission that this is the first time he has fired a handgun (not trying to start sh1t ). Familiarity with firearms tends to take away that magical aura of invincibility that a person feels the first time they hear the big crack of a round going off at the local firing range.

3) Guns can be dealt with at close range, medium range, and at long range (medium being the most difficult at this point in my experience).

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

1) The DE .50 is for guys with little d1cks and no common sense. It is a first rate piece of junk that doesn't shoot accurately or reliably under adverse conditions.

then why is it one of max paynes best guns????

pfffft .... you don't know what your talkin about man.

[Tak]

Originally posted by Ikken Hisatsu
Joe Sifu is ruined, his wife leaves him for the milkman, and he ends his days playing tekken 12 while crying into his (cheap) beer. Sweet, Tekken 12 is out! Is it available for the Playstation 6?

[Tak]

Originally posted by Stranger
1) The DE .50 is for guys with little d1cks and no common sense. It is a first rate piece of junk that doesn't shoot accurately or reliably under adverse conditions.

2) There are ways to counter the gun. Fu-Pow's post does not suprise me in light of his admission that this is the first time he has fired a handgun (not trying to start sh1t ). Familiarity with firearms tends to take away that magical aura of invincibility that a person feels the first time they hear the big crack of a round going off at the local firing range.

3) Guns can be dealt with at close range, medium range, and at long range (medium being the most difficult at this point in my experience).
I agree from start to finish. Close range, lots of people have the tendency to hold the gun at arm's length, so it can be hard to keep you in front of the barrel, particularly if you step into them. Long range, you run away and they probably can't hit you anyway (talking about handguns). Mid range is tough because you have to cover a lot of distance to either get up close to the person or to get out of their effective range.

I have mixed feelings on the whole issue of gun defense. Sure, you can say, "Just give up the wallet and don't be a hero." But, you have no assurance that they won't shoot you even after you give up the wallet - just a vague hope that they are somewhat sane and realize that killing you might mean more trouble for them. It would suck to be shot and die realizing that you could have done something about it.

Wasn't it Locke who said that people should legally be able to kill anyone who attempts to control them using physical force? - because once under their control, the controller would realistically have the power to kill the controllee and that the controllee shouldn't have to rely on the controller's benevolence in drawing the line between robbing and killing.

[GeneChing]

There's a vid of the newscast of this but the article below captures it.


Man pulls weapon at school amid debate on guns and martial arts, according to police (http://www.wpbf.com/article/man-pulls-weapon-at-school-amid-debate-on-guns-and-martial-arts-according-to-police/12010769)
WPBF Updated: 9:03 PM EDT Aug 14, 2017
Whitney Burbank
Reporter

PORT SAINT LUCIE, Fla. —
Sunday Chris LaSala was holding an open house at Grace Christian Academy where he teaches physical education in order to get students to join a martial arts after school program.

LaSala said he was talking with a group of kids and their families about the importance of self defense at the Port St. Lucie school but one man in his 60s didn't want to hear
it.

"He proceeded to get up out of his chair walked around the children, the group of people, and pulled a pistol out of his pocket, pointed it at my face over the top of a
woman's face and said, 'Boom your dead'," said LaSala.

LaSala said George Meyer became angry when he mentioned a gun wasn't the best choice for self-defense, because according to LaSala, it can easily be taken away. LaSala
said Meyer used the weapon to try and prove a point, in front of an audience of
students, parents, and even a woman holding an 18-month-old.

"When he walked to his chair, he made sure he let everyone know his gun was locked and loaded and ready to fire," said LaSala.

LaSala said he left the room to alert a school administrator and call police.

"If want to have a discussion or a debate about martial arts and firearms then, well, you talk about it," said Port St. Lucie police spokesperson Frank Sabol Monday. "You
don't have to, especially, it's illegal, to pull out a gun and point it at
somebody to make a point."

Sabol said police arrested Meyer at his home in Port St. Lucie and took away the weapon.

Meyer was arrested on for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon without intent to kill, and multiple gun related charges including carrying a concealed weapon without a
permit.

Meyer was released on bond, and returned to the school Monday afternoon.

Officials contacted authorities who located Meyer after he left the property.

Meyer was cited for trespassing.

He remains out of jail this evening.