Tai Chi Sparring?

[Knifefighter]

Do Tai Chi training methods include sparring? If so what type (open hand; closed fist; stand-up only; ground fighting) and is any protective gear used?

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

Yes, there is Tai Chi San Shou(Sparring hands), it is normally only trained after Tui Shou(Push Hands) skills have been aquired.

How and what is trained will vary between styles and schools, some styles have 2-person sparring forms whereas others don't.
Some schools will also teach weapon sparring.

AFAIK, ground grappling is not normally trained and no protective gear is used, but like I said it will vary.

Do a search on "Tai Chi San Shou" or "Tai Chi sparring" on google and you should find some info about schools and their training methods.

I am sure that some more versed people will reply too.

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by T'ai Ji Monkey
Yes, there is Tai Chi San Shou(Sparring hands), Is this full contact sparring? If so, what is used- closed fists, finger strikes, palms, elbows, etc.?


Originally posted by T'ai Ji Monkey
some styles have 2-person sparring forms What is this? Full contact sparring with weapons? If so, what type of weapons and what type of protective gear is used?

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

Knife-fighter:

I don't know particulars about the 2-person forms as they were invented only some 70+yrs ago and are not part of the style I study.
;)

How do YOU define full-contact sparring?
All the sparring I have ever done was at different intensity levels agreed upon by the participants.
We train strikes, kicks, sweeps, takedowns, throws, joint-locks, etc.

Most weapon sparring I have seen was using the straight sword and the staff, no protective gear, and the guys went at it pretty seriously.

I am sure that my experience & sparring is different from lets say Shooter and similar people who train for competitions.

Hence, I said it will vary between styles and schools, there is no standard for Tai Chi( too many styles, sub-styles and lineages) as such all we can talk is from our personal experience and knowledge.

[brassmonkey]

"Do Tai Chi training methods include sparring? If so what type (open hand; closed fist; stand-up only; ground fighting) and is any protective gear used?"

It all depends on the school. My impression is most(90+ %) don't spar full contact. And of course those who do spar full contact use some gloves, mouth piece hopefully.

[brassmonkey]

"Is this full contact sparring? If so, what is used- closed fists, finger strikes, palms, elbows, etc.?


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by T'ai Ji Monkey
some styles have 2-person sparring forms
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is this? Full contact sparring with weapons? If so, what type of weapons and what type of protective gear is used?"

Yeah I've seen this 2 person Sanshou a couple times and it is definately not sparring. If anything its closer to a 2 person dance though it can be of benefit if trained properly I'm sure. No weapons its a 2 person dance with set applications for set attacks. No pads or equipment.

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

Originally posted by brassmonkey
It all depends on the school. My impression is most(90+ %) don't spar full contact. And of course those who do spar full contact use some gloves, mouth piece hopefully.



Yeah I've seen this 2 person Sanshou a couple times and it is definately not sparring. If anything its closer to a 2 person dance though it can be of benefit if trained properly I'm sure. No weapons its a 2 person dance with set applications for set attacks. No pads or equipment.


Are you speaking for your locality or for all kwoons worlwide??

Just curious. ;)

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

At our school we develop the student in progressive stages.. forms, weapons, push-hands, applications, light sparring and finally full-contact.. but, i insist that good internal principles be utilized.. this is all training to improve one's "internal" skills. after the internal student demonstrates appropriate internal skills with other internal fighting partners, we test our internal skills against my partner's arts (JKD, Muay Thai, Mo Hahn, etc...).. and even here i insist on good internal principles.. We do take precautions such as protective gear and very active refereeing (weird word to spell) to insure that the students are able to return for additional instruction.. our goal is to learn.. We do demonstrate many seemingly dangerous applications, but the execution of the application is controlled and intended to illustrate the potential, not its actual result..

I am not aware of any other local schools (and there are several) that emphasize applications or sparring.. that does not diminish the benefit desired by the student, considering that most people are aware of what our school offers.. it is merely a choice of preference by the student.. In fact, there are a couple of other teachers that i consult with regarding esoteric health practices related to Internal Arts... we can get along and benefit from each others' experiences or.. well, we've all seen the ugliness of bashing, etc...

Be well..

[brassmonkey]

"Are you speaking for your locality or for all kwoons worlwide??

Just curious."

Of course I havent been to all kwoons worldwide and only a couple different Sanshou routines from different lines of Yang however the Yang Sanshou routine I'm sure could have some variances even though it isnt that old. However is what I described incorrect? Is it not set attacks with set defenses?

[Shooter]

No. Tai Chi training does not include sparring. Hence, there's no need for protective gear. However, I'm usually chained to a jungle-gym and have to wear my hockey helmet when I practice my form in the park. Scary stuff, that.

sheesh :D

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

Originally posted by brassmonkey
Of course I havent been to all kwoons worldwide and only a couple different Sanshou routines from different lines of Yang however the Yang Sanshou routine I'm sure could have some variances even though it isnt that old. However is what I described incorrect? Is it not set attacks with set defenses?

The Yang San Shou routines as I understand is similar to the forms is a starting point that gives you a few pointers.

Prior to those routines the partners agreed on a selection of attacks/defenses that were going to be used.

The next step after this would be free-sparring, similar to the way Tui shou is taught( fixed, single step, one-hand, two-hand and free-style).

In TJQ training the level is slowly but steadily increased.

[greendragon]

no, Tai Chi has no sparring. We just try to move very slow and avoid violent thoughts. We might get together after class and hug trees, maybe smoke some mugwort. This makes us healthy inside so if we get beat up we will heal quickly.

[j-himself]

i was just wondering, is this sparring performed at the end of this clip, or is that a prearranged fight?

http://www.taiji.de/taiji/head5e/index.htm


i havent been doing taiji quan for very long, but it seems to me that some of those shoves-- using shoulders, n other tai ji techinques etc. --didnt seem to inflict much damage other than taking the opponent off his feet.

and for one of the qinna techniques, he just let go of the guy after performing an elbow take down, instead of pinning him on the ground...

not criticizing anything, just some minor observations.

[j-himself]

ttt

[Nexus]

Originally posted by greendragon
no, Tai Chi has no sparring. We just try to move very slow and avoid violent thoughts. We might get together after class and hug trees, maybe smoke some mugwort. This makes us healthy inside so if we get beat up we will heal quickly.

Shhh.. you are giving away our secrets!

[Syd]

Taiji as a system takes longer than most arts to use effectively as a fighting tool because it is a complete system. Namely the internal aspects take time ine getting right and Taiji requires a very specific way of moving which also requires allot of training in order to internalise.

The forms are largely about teaching the Taiji fighter how to move correctly and It also acts as a kind of encyclopedia of certain solutions to various styles of attack. Later on, training on things like small san sau and then large san sau as well as advanced push hands, double push hands and the use of Long Har Chuan and peng/hinge training, serve to round out a Taiji fighters understanding of the principles at work which is namely Fajin... the engine which drives the Taiji fighters applications.

There are many other area's of Taiji in my own system which involves point striking, dim mak or dian mai, qi disruption and wudan hand weaponsm and weapons forms.

Initially you will see something like large San Sau and it will be a 2 person pre-arranged format where the two fighters are going through the moves of a set routine but later it becomes open sparring using any and all techniques with no pre-arrangement and thats when a Taiji fighters skills start to become more honed. It should be noted though that even in the early stages of the large San Sau the fighters are taught to really go for their shots and force the opponent to block and re-attack.

The system takes allot of time to learn correctly and has endless layers and levels. You are never near the end of your journey as a true Taijiquan fighter or practitioner as it is like the Wuji symbol where the snake eats it's own tail... it simply deepens and goes on.

You don't see too many Taiji fighters because of the length of time it takes in order to reach the more advanced stages. Not allot of people want to commit to something that takes such effort and demands such dedication in order to get it right.

Those people that do stick with it though are what I would call real Taijiquan practioners. I am on that journey of trying to become one but I am still in my infancy with this system and I am awed by how beautiful, elegant and devastating it is as a complete system.

Best, Syd

[Ren Blade]

In my school, the Shaolin and Tai Chi students spar together. It's full contact with padded gear, resistant/uncooperative with hand techniques, kicks, Chin Na's, and throw/take downs allowed.

Our sparring class are divided into levels. Level 1-3, only hands are allowed. Level 4, kicking is allowed but only to the leg. Level 5, kicking is allowed at any height and Chin Na's and take downs are allowed. It's very restricted to what you can do in the beginning levels. Restricted to focus on specific skills. But it becomes more free form advancing through the levels.