A new form of competition [Archive] - Kung Fu Magazine Forums

Royal Dragon

11-11-2003, 07:20 PM

I see, so only the cool kids get to eat?

Seriously, if that is offenseve, you're really ****ed up. People have lives outside of Martial arts. No where else is a social event dictated by some sort of previous engagement. I have never seen a rule that says (ettiquite or otherwise) you have to train with a martial artist to eat dinner with one. Think about it, if you miss a wedding, your still welcome at the reception.

It's almost as if the fact that other things can, and do take precidece over MA training is considered insulting (Assuming the incedent you refer too is the one I'm thinking of).

My My my, how weak and fragile the Kung Fu/Martial arts Ego becomes. I wonder how many people would train in it if they knew what really happens to your personality after years of training? If they knew it breeds so much arrogance, Ego, and insane intolerance.

Based on what I have seen, especially in the last few years, martial artists get offended at practically anything often highly so at the tiniest of things. The higher they get, the worse it is too. The longer they train, the weaker they get. It's takes some deep thinking, but from where I'm sitting, it seems to be true.

MonkeySlap Too

11-11-2003, 08:26 PM

Ah, so when you talk smack, that's okay - but when you get called on it, no matter how indirectly or 'ribbingly', you cannot take it, and it is the sign of fragile egos on the part of the jokers? RD I was just going for a little good natured humor. Like all humor there is some truth to it, but since it is attached to another fragile ego, I doubt it will get recognized.

So am I free to go around the internet talking about how fragile you are and cannot take a joke? It seems to really work for you when you do it, so I thought I'd try it...

(End of my childish game - I just wanted to play RD's game a little.)

CrippledAvenger

11-11-2003, 10:26 PM

MonkeySlap burninates the correct, in so many different ways.

SifuAbel

11-11-2003, 11:46 PM

Actually no, I don't see the "correct" here. How is taking advantage of a person who can't compete actively somehow honorable? I think it's pretty cheap.

Royal Dragon

11-12-2003, 05:28 AM

He he he he, just asking questions dude.

I mean really, ever hear of a wedding reception that ONLY admits those who were at the ceremony? Don't you think that's just a little bit silly?

Allso, ridle me this, How is it smack talking to simply state facts?

Also, What exactly have I ever said about you, or your group that is smack talking? (The Larry thing is seperate as far as I'm concerned)

Seriously, you got all insulted and offended because I ONCE said I don't fully agree with everything you do. To this day I never said what I specificaly even dissagreed with. Does that sound like a normal, logical person to you? Does that sound like someone with a normal healthy self esteem and ego? Think about your behavior dude.

Really man, you need to lay of the Coffee me thinks, this sh!t just does not matter as much as you think it does.

Water Dragon

11-12-2003, 07:15 AM

*pats self on back for staying out of this one*

yenhoi

11-12-2003, 08:18 AM

Arent you two close enough to take care of this stuff in person?

:confused:

yenhoi

11-12-2003, 08:20 AM

And who is this Larry schmuck?

:confused:

Mr Punch

11-12-2003, 08:44 AM

Back to the original point, since you bunch of romos have been biotching about this in public for probably... oh since the offensive dinner took place... AND you're close enough to talk OR to beat the living S out of each other...! :rolleyes: :D
Originally posted by MonkeySlap Too
1.) How eloquently and politely we can discuss our training.Well you've lost that one for a start!

2.) How single pointed our minds are. We can recruit Ikebana and tea masters to observe ...I will beat you with my ikebana! A will snap off your limbs and insert them at elegant angles with just the right amount of maiai between them to make a really pleasing arrangement.

Or pour hot tea into your lap. :eek: Iron crotch won't work: iron conducts heat too well.

And who is Larry Schmuck?

Water Dragon

11-12-2003, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by SifuAbel
Actually no, I don't see the "correct" here. How is taking advantage of a person who can't compete actively somehow honorable? I think it's pretty cheap.

I'm not sure you're aware of the whole story. It's definately NOT a case of taking advantage of a person who can't compete. This whole "can't compete" line is a pretty recent development.

Tak

11-12-2003, 09:16 AM

Now in publication: The Truth about Larry Schmuck

Water Dragon

11-12-2003, 09:26 AM

lol. That's MR. Schmuck to you!

Meat Shake

11-12-2003, 09:28 AM

Short excerpt from "The Truth About Larry Schmuck"

"Poor Larry Schmuck lived a turbulent life. Wheather it was hand cleaning sceptic tanks, or sexing elephants, the poor guy just never really "got it". At the young age of 13, a little Larry Schmuck was orphaned when his parents were both gunned down at the hands of an disgruntled Chuck-E-Cheese manager. Larry was still only in the 2nd grade, and now homeless. Nowhere to go, no one to turn to, the 13 year old 2nd grader began selling crack."

KC Elbows

11-12-2003, 09:53 AM

Originally posted by Water Dragon
I'm not sure you're aware of the whole story.

Doesn't that beg the question "how would strangers on the internet get the whole story, both sides?"?

It wasn't from monkeyslap. He wasn't saying jack about it until recently.

I just wish you guys would make just one big ugly thread and finish it. It doesn't sound like you want anything to do with RD and vice versa, so it seems like clicking ignore might be warranted at this point.

Anyway, probably stepping where I'm not wanted, oh well.

Meat Shake

11-12-2003, 09:56 AM

"Anyway, probably stepping where I'm not wanted, oh well."

I did that once, and an old man with a shot gun came out yelling about bears and the government and his wife with her ****ed moldy cheese.....

KC Elbows

11-12-2003, 10:03 AM

That was me!

How's the ass wound?

Meat Shake

11-12-2003, 10:05 AM

Green and festering. :(

KC Elbows

11-12-2003, 10:09 AM

I'm having homemade corn chowder and a sammich.

Water Dragon

11-12-2003, 10:10 AM

Originally posted by KC Elbows

Doesn't that beg the question "how would strangers on the internet get the whole story, both sides?"?

It wasn't from monkeyslap. He wasn't saying jack about it until recently.

I just wish you guys would make just one big ugly thread and finish it. It doesn't sound like you want anything to do with RD and vice versa, so it seems like clicking ignore might be warranted at this point.

Anyway, probably stepping where I'm not wanted, oh well.

Well, you're correct there. But the impression I'm getting from SifuAbel's post is that he thinks we're picking on a poor defenseless cripple. That's not the case. Other than that, yeah, let it die.

Also, you may want to note that I didn't say **** until my name was mentioned.

Sincerely,
Larry Schmuck

Meat Shake

11-12-2003, 10:11 AM

Your wife told me she actually used toenails instead of corn since you didnt please her proper like. Next time you'll use bounty instead of that generic crap.

KC Elbows

11-12-2003, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by Water Dragon
Other than that, yeah, let it die.

The problem is, there will always be one more "other than that" to drag you back into it. For instance, I am friends with RD, but I know he'll probably come on here and say something that will continue it, and then someone will respond who is dealing with other than that's, and he will respond, and it's only a matter of time before your other than that comes up again.

Until you can pass up your other than that, you will never ultimately come off as the winner of this argument, but just another person online arguing when they could be wining and dining a chick with a nice round ass. This is truth. The man who posts only in the afterglow of hot jamaican love is the only true winner. All else are losers.

I'm sure you already know this, and that's why you're taking the high road. You've found your round assed woman, and you're looking toward the future. This post is for those less fortunate.

Water Dragon

11-12-2003, 10:42 AM

OK, I get it. Basically:

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still a retard.

KC Elbows

11-12-2003, 10:52 AM

My relation is better, because it has the phrase "hot jamaican love" in it. Sex sells, you know.

Also, I think it's important for people to realize how they get hooked into the same arguments over and over, usually the same ways every time. There's never gonna be a day where someone's response to that hook is gonna solve it all, because they'll just repeat it all again the next time they get hooked in and the next time, until the whole board is bored of it or they quit getting hooked.

Basically, yes. It's frustrating to watch smart people make themselves look less so. Mind you I do it all the time, but you're not me, you have to work what you got harder to even hope to compete with my sexiness.

yenhoi

11-12-2003, 12:09 PM

It's frustrating to watch smart people.....

Are you hanging out at Cyberkwoon again?

wtf?

:eek:

FatherDog

11-12-2003, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by yenhoi
It's frustrating to watch smart people.....

Are you hanging out at Cyberkwoon again?

wtf?

:eek:

What does hanging out at Cyberkwoon have to do with watching smart people? :D

rubthebuddha

11-12-2003, 02:36 PM

it's an alternate-universe-bizarro-world kinda thing.

Royal Dragon

11-12-2003, 07:14 PM

Eveninng gents, wasn't even going to reply, but hell, I've got sh!t to say, so here goes it.

I'm not sure you're aware of the whole story. It's definately NOT a case of taking advantage of a person who can't compete. This whole "can't compete" line is a pretty recent development.

Reply]
Not that it matters anymore anyway, it's all acedemic now, but it's not a new or "reacent" thing. It's been this way since about a year before I ever connected with any of you guys. In fact, if you think back, you'll remember I was looking for some people to cross hands a bit with so I could start getting my game back. As in restore lost skill, NOT learn this stuff all brand new. I didn't come to you guys to become any sort of desciple. I never wanted to get married to the system. I was looking for insite into desciphering throwing applications in my Tai tzu sets, and to do some two man work, that's it.

I thought I made that pretty clear from the get go, maybe not to WD, but defently to MS2 and MJ. Also, I made it adimantly clear I was comming off a major life altering injury. MS2 even told me on a number of occasions not to rush into things too fast. When training time came though, I felt quite a bit of pressure to over perform, to the extent of standing up and saying once that I "had it", and was done for the day (about 2 hours into a 3 hour session), only to have more pushed on me any way. Despite the pain I was In, I stood there and at least held the ball as directed anyway. I was in so much pain, just standing was brutal. What I wanted to do was just lay down in the grass and let my back relax. I hate to say it, but even Chung Moo Quan would have sat me out and layed me flat on my back and allowed it to relax. I stuck it out till this little voice in my head said "Hey dumb ass, what the he!! are you doing?" Thats when I just sat down and said "fu(k it all". I haven't been back since.

Then later I hear WD online saying I should have just pushed through it? Like I just had a common back ache? That's when I really lost it for you guys. It wasn't the midnight phone call, or the way MS handled it, and it wasn't the crushing my wind pipe thing (although that was a major biggie). It was just a general attitude of intolerance, arrogance and the insensitivity to the nature of my injury that caused me to back out of the group.

As for the dinner thing, I had no idea there was even an issue with that till THIS thread. Both MS, and MJ knew I wasn't going to be training due to my back, as it was still pretty tender back then and I had been over doing it reacently. I needed to rest it up. If comming out and socialising with you guys without training beforehand was such a hugh violation of your respect line, someone should have said something, instead of just inviting me out anyway, and b!tching about it behind my back (as it seems now to be the case).

MonkeySlap Too

11-12-2003, 07:46 PM

Well, I was trying to stay cool about this, but dude I was ribbing you back on the phone call thing. Even said so in the thread. And a year later you come around whining in a thread, calling me by name as an example of egomaniacal behavior. So, I tried to have fun with that a little, but you don't know how to let go.

SS was given you a little ribbing too - dude I know why you weren't training. But you do talk a big game, and when observed by fighters - well they are a little surprised you talk such a big game.

You are an audience of one for thinking the training is to rough or inconsiderate of injuries. I'd suggest a little self reflection on this point.

I won't say anymore, and you don't want me to. You can be an alright guy, but don't be such a tool.

Now I'm done, have a great day gentlemen. Hey! Look a SD guy is doing Golden Snake style (While they are distracted, he exits...)

Royal Dragon

11-12-2003, 07:48 PM

Ok, enough said then.

MonkeySlap Too

11-12-2003, 07:58 PM

And now for a public service anouncement:

While martial arts produces a great deal of crazy 'my ball is better than your ball' chatting - fighters know fighters, and real CMA guys know when someone has 'kung fu' or is just a 'flowery hand, brocade leg', or an 'empty barrell'.

And those of us with several decades of training and fighting can get annoyed occasionally when someone who lacks the skill or experience feels they can talk smack like an equal. Here's a clue. You aren't equal until you have earned it.

This doesn't mean that you can't ask questions, or explore great ideas. But it does mean, you should not run around claiming expertise or skill you don't have, and then whine when you don't get treated like you belong at the table.

This does not mean you are not treated civilly or your ideas don't matter, but those with the experience can get bored by the cyber warriors telling them what's what, when it is obvious they can't even spell 'what.'

This applies to very few people on this board, as I think most of the players at various levels on this board demonstrate a pretty realistic sense of things. The world of martial arts has changed forever, with digital media opening up the doors. This is good thing. But it does not mean that you have to tolerate poor behavior. This goes both ways - but respect is earned. So ask yourself, whose respect have YOU earned today - from your actions, not just words.

Starchaser107

11-12-2003, 08:05 PM

somebody mention something about hot jamaican love?

Meat Shake

11-12-2003, 10:34 PM

If jamaican love, ja better wear a jimmy hat.

SevenStar

11-18-2003, 02:20 AM

In the spirit of not continuing a tard debate, I won't repsond, even though I was out of town and couldn't respond sooner :p

SevenStar

11-18-2003, 02:32 AM

Originally posted by Royal Dragon

Seriously, you got all insulted and offended because I ONCE said I don't fully agree with everything you do. To this day I never said what I specificaly even dissagreed with.

Actually, I don't even recall that. My disagreement started when you were asserting that it was okay to start a mckwoon as long as it brought you bodies to use to further your own skills.

Royal Dragon

11-18-2003, 07:42 PM

Actually, I don't even recall that. My disagreement started when you were asserting that it was okay to start a mckwoon as long as it brought you bodies to use to further your own skills.

Reply]
See, I still don't see the problem with that. It's not like I'd be busting people up or anything, or inventing 900 "Thousand Bee's" forms. I know I'd be giving great benifit to the studnets so far as basic self defence, and health and conditioning goes. He!l, I have Taiji students who practically worship me because I got rid of a lifetime of knee and or back pain for them with my training methods, not to mention a good dozen or so HA,ADD kids that are off Riddelen because of my teaching Karate for Champion Youth Outreach, and later the Royal Dragon Kid's Kung Fu programs back in the mid to late 90's.

The common McKwoon student would never last in a hard core school anyway, and I could put together a program that not only blows away most Mc Kwoons, and supports a small hard core group, but makes me six figures, and keeps me sharp all at the same time, so what's the harm? What's the down side? I really don't get your gripe.

SevenStar

11-18-2003, 10:09 PM

I guess I'm looking to run a Mcdojo that preps students for traditional training.

Remember saying that?

I have come to the conclusion that if I want "MY" Kung fu to be any good, or to even be in the type of physical shape I used to be in, I need to train a good 4-5 hours a day (like I used to), preferably 3 three hour sessions. The ONLY way I can accomlish my goals is if Ican teach 100 people a month for no les than $100 per month tuition (I get 40%) of that. A "Watered down main stream system is the only way i can do that securely and reliably.

How about that?

You see, what I am doing IS watering the art down for comercial purposes, BUT, in the grander sceme of things, I am gettng TOP notch Kung Fu for me as I will have the time to actually persue it consistantly, I get to enjoy my family, AND I am raising the interest and promoting Kung Fu to the general public that would otherwise be lost to the Mc Dojo's.

I guess in the end, everyone's Kung fu would suck that way. Clearly the Mcdojo plan is the way to go as in the long run, many more people end up with good Kung Fu, especially me, even if it means a bunch of people (who will never be good no matter what, anyway) end up with mediocer skills at best.

I can go on an on. That's enough to illustrate my point though. This is what I have a problem with.

MonkeySlap Too

11-18-2003, 11:29 PM

There is no way a McDojo can adequately prepare a student for good CMA. You spend too much time in the mcdojo, learning bad body english, and unproven methods pulled from tapes, internet conversations, and books without adequate experience or guidance from teachers who have been there, or actual experience playing with skilled exponents. Idiot testing does not count...

Do not fool yourself that the students can trade up to a good school, or that any good school would actually want your students.

Practically any physical activity will produce some results. Heck, some people even got benefits from Chung Moo Quan.

If you are telling the public they are learning kung fu, well you should be qualified to teach and teaching kung fu. Otherwise you are lieing, and you are no better than any other McDojo.

Is that really what you want to be?

Meat Shake

11-18-2003, 11:35 PM

" need to train a good 4-5 hours a day (like I used to), preferably 3 three hour sessions."

?
:confused:
I thought 3x3 = 9?
???

Hmm.... Im too tired, but want to respond. Will respond tomorrow.

Royal Dragon

11-19-2003, 09:17 AM

Actually, the 9 hour thing is my ideal goal, I've never been able to do it. I did 3 two hour sessions in a day a few times, and made it to 5 hours non stop o good number of times wehn layed off during the summer, but when I was really into this stuff obsessively, I would do 3- 4, maybe and occasional 4 -1/2. Heck, when I was teaching for Champion Youth Outreach, I did the classes right along side my students (deep stances all night and everything), and that was 4, 45 minutes sessions a night back to back to back.

As for the rest of it, I'm not teaching anymore anyway, so it's all hypothetical anyway.

Still, I don't see the problem. Karate schools in this country have been doing it for decades, and it's pretty accepted. My daughters old gym starts people out in a general public "Rec" (As in recreational) program, and funnels the ones with talent up to the hard core competitve program through a series of "Tryouts". What would be wrong with doing that for a Kung Fu school?

As for the bad body structure and mechanics issue, I haven't seen too many who have it right anyway. Heck, even what we see comming out of Shaolin Temple is all shoulders back "butt out" material. If it's OK for them, why is it such a demonified issue with you guys? I mean, what is "Bad" body mechanics anyway?

Seriously, MMA guys don't seem to concerned about it, but they kick ass anyway, don't they?

Also [ms2], you guys go on and on and on about body structure and alignment and such, but from what I've seen your only marginally better than average guys anyway. Every one of you arches your lower backs, has your butts sticking out, and spines not striaght and the like, but you will sit there and say your structure is right because your knees are behind your toes in a horse stance and your shoulders are rounded forward.

I've crossed hands with an I-Chuan guy a few months ago, and I believe HE has it right, and I do pretty much the same thing he does. It just makes much more sense to me than the way you guys tweak your selves all out of alignment (from an I chuan guys perspective) just to get your knees behind your toes.

You're not all you crack yourself up to be either. I mean, who's to say YOUR idea of right is actually right? Wouldn't it be more correct to say what you do is right for YOU?

MasterKiller

11-19-2003, 09:31 AM

I mean, who's to say YOUR idea of right is actually right? Usually, the guy who is still standing gets to say his idea is correct, and the guy on the floor is forced to concede.

Royal Dragon

11-19-2003, 09:36 AM

Seven Star,
Ok, you posted a bunch of things I said in the past (Which I still stand by), but you haven't explained WHY you are against the idea yet, you just said

"I can go on an on. That's enough to illustrate my point though. This is what I have a problem with."

Posting quotes of me does not illistrate your point, it just refreshes everyone on what MY position is.

What exactly IS your problem with opening a huge profitable school? I know more than enough to put together a really good curriculem, and my students would defently benifit from it. Do you think only those who train professional fighters should be allowed to pass on what they have learned?

Water Dragon

11-19-2003, 09:38 AM

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Usually, the guy who is still standing gets to say his idea is correct, and the guy on the floor is forced to concede.

Yeah, but that only happens when people are willing to box with their hands instead of their mouths.

FatherDog

11-19-2003, 10:07 AM

Originally posted by Royal Dragon
As for the bad body structure and mechanics issue, I haven't seen too many who have it right anyway. Heck, even what we see comming out of Shaolin Temple is all shoulders back "butt out" material. If it's OK for them, why is it such a demonified issue with you guys? I mean, what is "Bad" body mechanics anyway?

Seriously, MMA guys don't seem to concerned about it, but they kick ass anyway, don't they?

Boxing, Muay Thai, and wrestling are preeminently concerned with body mechanics. Head up, back straight, chin down. Hips under body. Front foot forward and straight, back foot 45 degrees out. Weight distributed evenly, shifting with technique.

A Muay Thai player with poor distribution of weight and incorrectly placed hips will have no power behind his roundhouse, and may fall. A boxer with an incorrect stance can't "sit into" his punches and deliver them with the power of his entire body. A wrestler whose hips aren't underneath him will be snapped down or sprawled into the mat.

MMA guys are very concerned with proper body mechanics. You don't hear us arguing with each other about it on message boards because to us, there's no argument. We know when we're doing it wrong, because that's when our sparring partners who are doing it right 0wnz0r us. It's only when someone isn't putting their theory into practice that you get long, drawn out debates about how far in you should be tucking your rectum when in horse stance.

Water Dragon

11-19-2003, 10:10 AM

Good post Fatherdog.

CrippledAvenger

11-19-2003, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by FatherDog
MMA guys are very concerned with proper body mechanics. You don't hear us arguing with each other about it on message boards because to us, there's no argument. We know when we're doing it wrong, because that's when our sparring partners who are doing it right 0wnz0r us. It's only when someone isn't putting their theory into practice that you get long, drawn out debates about how far in you should be tucking your rectum when in horse stance.

FatherDog has caught the Columbo, and is currently nailing the Correct in the back seat of an El Camino.

norther practitioner

11-19-2003, 10:15 AM

Ditto, good post.

The only debate that usually goes on for us is when someone (usually a newbie) tells us that it's easier to do x when y is like this... then we'll show them why x is actually easier when y is different, then debate ends.

As far as the 7* thing is concerned, RD I think he is taking each of those statements and saying... no.... no, I don't agree with you.

Royal Dragon

11-19-2003, 10:38 AM

father Dog,
OK, I stand correted on the MMA structure thing.

As for the Seven Star issue, I understand he does not agree (which is all cool and all), what I don't understand is "Why". He hasn't explained the reasoning behind his dissagreement yet.

MonkeySlap Too

11-19-2003, 10:49 AM

RD - your mouth boxing is excellent, and it sure is great that you have opinions of your own. However, I think you will find that they are your own opinions.

But if you ever feel the need to find out for yourself if your theories are correct, you know where to find me. Although I suggest you start with a beginning student.

SevenStar

11-19-2003, 11:01 AM

NP has it right. I'm pointing out specific things I don't agree with.

Originally posted by Royal Dragon
Still, I don't see the problem. Karate schools in this country have been doing it for decades, and it's pretty accepted.

So sell yourself out because other people have done it?

My daughters old gym starts people out in a general public "Rec" (As in recreational) program, and funnels the ones with talent up to the hard core competitve program through a series of "Tryouts". What would be wrong with doing that for a Kung Fu school?

MA does do that, when it comes to competition. Fight teams (Lion's den comes to mind because I read an article about what all they have to go through) have tryouts. Those are competitiors. For the ones who don't compete, just feed them McMA? And when you "funnel" them to Ebble, chances are, he's goig to be retraining them. That means they may have a harder time learning, as they have to unlearn what they already know.

Seriously, MMA guys don't seem to concerned about it, but they kick ass anyway, don't they?

Train in MT, bjj, etc first. Then come back and re read that statement...

They are quite concerned with it. Thing is, when you've got someone trying to take your head off, it doesn't look picture perfect. The mechanics are there, and they train them dilligently.

[/B]

I know more than enough to put together a really good curriculem

Once again, I'm not saying that you don't. And, you even admit that you aren't qualified to teach advanced students, which is great, because you are being honest to your students. My only beef was with the approach you were going to take.

Royal Dragon

11-19-2003, 01:53 PM

NP has it right. I'm pointing out specific things I don't agree with.

Reply]
Yes, but your not saying "Why" you don't agrree with them.

MA does do that, when it comes to competition. Fight teams (Lion's den comes to mind because I read an article about what all they have to go through) have tryouts. Those are competitiors. For the ones who don't compete, just feed them McMA? And when you "funnel" them to Ebble, chances are, he's goig to be retraining them. That means they may have a harder time learning, as they have to unlearn what they already know.

Reply]
No, Basics are basics. If I get to a point where I'm ready to persue that avenue again, I may confir with him so we are on the same page over all. All I need to know are his requirements, and I can easily adjust my lesson structure to accomodate them. That's assumming I go that route. By the time that comes, I may be ready to teach the advanced classes myself. That of course would be the ultimate goal. I have some physical limtations to over come before I can persue my own training to that level first though. My other option is to hire someone as a head coach, and I would just teach the lower levels and handle the buisness end of it. There are plently of Long Fist guys in Chicago. I've even spoken to one guy about it back when I was going to open the school at I.G.I a few years ago.

Once again, I'm not saying that you don't. And, you even admit that you aren't qualified to teach advanced students, which is great, because you are being honest to your students. My only beef was with the approach you were going to take.

Reply]
Right, I understand you have a beef with it, but "WHY" do you have this beef? Really, there are tones of McKwoons out there. Those people that are looking for that do well in them, and those that don't find something tougher. Alot of people start out in a McKwoon, and after a time outgrow it. They are going to give thier money to one McShcool or another anyway, why not give it to mine? It's not like I'd be advertising that I was training people to fight NHB, and them just teaching forms. I have good self defence to offer. I've tested what I do enough over the years to l know I could sell a good product to serve the average persons needs, and then some.

Really, a good 80% of the martial artists out there are hobbyists, and the MC Kwoon enviroment is exactly what they are looking for. I think haveing a school that offeres the option to go either way would be a good thing. Then you let the students decide what's right for them, by themselves. They would see BOTH types of trainig side by side, and make the descision based on that. No lies, no deceptions, and no Bu!! Sh!t.

My job would be to make sure I had a program that suited thier needs. Whether "I" taught the class, contracted another to do it, or a mix of both.

MS2,
Beginners ehy? No thanks, I'll find someone a bit tougher than that. A beginner wouldn't pose the challenge nessasary for a good test. Last time I did something like that, we started with advanced intermediate (ready to test for brown) level students , which I dusted, I continued and fought up the ranks till I got myself in way too deep and got my ass handed to me. It was fun.

Anyway, I already have a guy or too lined up for that. No sense looking backwards to the past, it's time to look forwards.

Thank you for the offer though.

FatherDog

11-19-2003, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by CrippledAvenger

FatherDog has caught the Columbo, and is currently nailing the Correct in the back seat of an El Camino.

The front is like a car!
The back is like a truck!
The front is where we sit!
The back is where we

EL CAMINO!

MonkeySlap Too

11-19-2003, 03:39 PM

RD said:

No, Basics are basics. If I get to a point where I'm ready to persue that avenue again, I may confir with him so we are on the same page over all. All I need to know are his requirements, and I can easily adjust my lesson structure to accomodate them.

______________________________________________

This is simply not true. I would not be so sure that you would find it so easy. You might be surprised (although I can't imagine why) at what Brian thought of your 'skill'. You might intellectually comprehend some of the ideas - but without the skill you are helpless, and should not be teaching.

There is a level of self delusion here that is staggering.

Royal Dragon

11-19-2003, 04:05 PM

Interesting view point. Personally, from what I see, especially at the seminar, you guys are not bad, but not the best that I've seen either. Also, I was not anywhere near my best form then. infact, you may remember I opted out of the action for the most part due to health reasons.

He really didn't see anything of my potential, and neither have you. I appeceate the time he took to correct my "Repulse the Monkey" in my Taiji form. But much of the rest of what he told me was stuff I already knew.

The one part where he was trying to show me how the place my weight in the 40/60 (Weight on back leg), he couldn't even do. He had to shift me to a cat stance, and basically had me doing something I had done for years. He taught it to me as if I'd never seen it before or something, which is OK and all, but the original line of question was pertaining to a totally different stance all together.

When he was holding the horse, and showing me how he could keep his knee back behind his toes, yet put his weight ON the toes was messed up too. He totally broke his own structure, had to stick his as-s way out, arch his back, and thrust his chest forward to do it, yet stood there with this grin on his face like he was doing something special. Or maybe he thought I didn't have the eye to see how he was pulling that off. I was quiet about what I saw, and actually asked him how he was doing it, like I didn't know or something, but he was clearly trying to fake me out with that, and thought he got away with it. I found that to be rather humurus.

You act like I don't know anything, and maybe it's my fault for not openly questioning what I saw when I saw it, maybe I should have jumped up and started teaching, instead of just being in student mode, I don't know, but YOU guys can't do what you say either especially when is comes to the body structure you constantly harp about. I haven't seen any of you fight, only do drills, so I can't comment on that, but you need to get over yourselves, your not that spectacular when it comes to the things I have seen out of you.

MonkeySlap Too

11-19-2003, 04:16 PM

I am glad to hear that physically, you will be well.

Royal Dragon

11-19-2003, 04:37 PM

Thanks.

Start looking closely at the lumbar region of your guys from now on, you may see what I'm talking about.

PS, I got the dig and i'd like to say

I LOVE YOU TOO JOE!!!!

Water Dragon

11-19-2003, 06:06 PM

*rubs hands together*

-grins-

:)

Royal Dragon

11-19-2003, 06:57 PM

Meat Shake

11-19-2003, 07:51 PM

Hey mst, your inbox is full.

MonkeySlap Too

11-19-2003, 08:18 PM

Well Gian, I just have to disagree. I think you do have a pretty good memory for jargon, but injured or no, you showed no actual trace of 'having' what you claim. It shows - honestly. Now I don't claim to be gods gift to martial arts, but i'm willing to prove my point.

I beleive you have a standing challenge to WD to prove your skill. When is that year up? He's a relative beginner, so you should feel confident.

I would also suggest going to the Mountain and offering your advice directly to Brian, and see how well it goes.

For me the proof is in the doing. And if you are sick, or injured, well you bill yourself as a a coach, produce a skilled student to do it for you.

The fundamental factor here, is that I just don't beleive you have the skill or experience to support your mouth.

Other than that, I enjoy the heck out of you. You're one of the few to actually get both the good wishes, AND the dig.

Royal Dragon

11-19-2003, 09:05 PM

Ok, we can have our differences of opinion. I'm just trying to point out that you seem to be a little ignorant of your own flaws, that's all.

I would also suggest going to the Mountain and offering your advice directly to Brian, and see how well it goes.

I'm not really intersted in that. I brought it up because people seem so bent they know everything, and I really get the feeling you think you and your guys can do no wrong, yet there it was, plain as day. Not that I'm flawless myself or anything, but when someone goes on and on about how little they think I know, yet I see something like that out of them or guys they hold up as examples, it just makes me chuckle.

The fundamental factor here, is that I just don't beleive you have the skill or experience to support your mouth.

Reply]
Ok, that's cool, I can respect that. For the record, I do belive you got game. And I did get some really good insite out of you guys.

Other than that, I enjoy the heck out of you. You're one of the few to actually get both the good wishes, AND the dig.

Reply]
He he he, Your all right in my book too.:p

SevenStar

11-20-2003, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by Royal Dragon
Yes, but your not saying "Why" you don't agrree with them.

I've said it in this thread and in the other, but:

1. you are selling yourself and your style out for a buck
2. you yourself say that you aren't qualified to teached higher than beginning level students. IMO, if that's the case, the only way you should be teaching is if there is another teacher at the school who can.
3. you speak nonsense, like "basics are basics" and you're gonna teach??!?!

No, Basics are basics.

let's experiment on that one.

Show a student a roundhouse kick. send him to a muay thai gym.

Show a student your taiji basics. Send him to a shotokan school.

Show a student your longfist basics. Send him to a bjj school.

Basics aren't just basics... it's not quite that simple.

Really, there are tones of McKwoons out there. Those people that are looking for that do well in them, and those that don't find something tougher. Alot of people start out in a McKwoon, and after a time outgrow it. They are going to give thier money to one McShcool or another anyway, why not give it to mine?

And you're okay with that?

Royal Dragon

11-20-2003, 07:58 PM

I've said it in this thread and in the other, but:

1. you are selling yourself and your style out for a buck

Reply]
No, I'm cashing in. Beszides, I have a good program to offer. I can defenetly serve the demographic I plan to market to.Very well infact.

2. you yourself say that you aren't qualified to teached higher than beginning level students. IMO, if that's the case, the only way you should be teaching is if there is another teacher at the school who can.

Reply]
No, I said I'm not qualified to teach advanced studnets. I can go pretty darn far with what I have. I have taught non stop in one way or another since about 94 or so, till about 4 weeks ago. It was mostly Kids, but also adults. My Tai Chi program was especialy sucsessfull in so far as it did what it was designed to do, and ran until "I" decided to shut it down so I could have more time to work on my own needs (hard to do that and teach at the same time)

3. you speak nonsense, like "basics are basics" and you're gonna teach??!?!

Reply]
I like your examples, but it does not apply here. Brian teaches Long Fist, I teach Long Fist. My comment was strictly within those paramiters. I don't teach Muy Thai, Bjj, or any of those other things. I teach what can best be described as a common, run of the mill Shaolin Long fists style. Even the tai Tzu I do is really just a different flavor of what is pretty much common long Fist (although I haven't taught any of it really yet)

[b]Really, there are tones of McKwoons out there. Those people that are looking for that do well in them, and those that don't find something tougher. Alot of people start out in a McKwoon, and after a time outgrow it. They are going to give thier money to one McShcool or another anyway, why not give it to mine?[b]

And you're okay with that?

reply]
Uh Yeah, of course I am. I wouldn't of said it if i wasn't. Seriously, none of the students i'd be marketing to would last in a hard core school anyway. Are you saying they don't deserve the benifits of martial arts training because they don't want to become some sort of modern day galdiator like you did. Of the ones that DO want to become modern day gladiators, I know where to send them, and I would happily pass them off to those who can better fit thier needs. Why is that so bad?

You know, not every car is a high performance Corvette. Infact most aren't. but noone sees anyhting wrong with buying a Toyota Camry, or an SUV. The hard core schools are Corvettes, and the rest are Camrys, Suv's Buick Rivera's and such. A few are Mustangs and Camaro's too.

You can't coun't the Corvette as the most widely driven car n the world, DESPITE it's superior perfomance charecteristics. Most people buy what suites THEIR needs, not ours. You may need a Corvette, but not everybody does. I have normal cars to sell, and there are normal people who need them. I can accomodaet someone who need a Camaro, or Mustang, but not someone who needs a Vette. I know my limitations.

What is so wrong with selling them something that suites their needs when it is well within my capability to do so?.

If it bothers you so much, when I do it, you can come down and teach my advanced class if you like.

SevenStar

11-21-2003, 03:50 AM

Originally posted by Royal Dragon

I like your examples, but it does not apply here. Brian teaches Long Fist, I teach Long Fist. My comment was strictly within those paramiters. I don't teach Muy Thai, Bjj, or any of those other things. I teach what can best be described as a common, run of the mill Shaolin Long fists style. Even the tai Tzu I do is really just a different flavor of what is pretty much common long Fist (although I haven't taught any of it really yet)

I see what you're saying. Same thing still applies though. Look at Brian's longfist, then look at Dr. Yang Jwing Ming's longfist. Then look at Tsai's longfist.

Uh Yeah, of course I am. I wouldn't of said it if i wasn't. Seriously, none of the students i'd be marketing to would last in a hard core school anyway. Are you saying they don't deserve the benifits of martial arts training because they don't want to become some sort of modern day galdiator like you did. Of the ones that DO want to become modern day gladiators, I know where to send them, and I would happily pass them off to those who can better fit thier needs. Why is that so bad?

You know, not every car is a high performance Corvette. Infact most aren't. but noone sees anyhting wrong with buying a Toyota Camry, or an SUV. The hard core schools are Corvettes, and the rest are Camrys, Suv's Buick Rivera's and such. A few are Mustangs and Camaro's too.

Aw, shucks, I'm a gladiator? :D

Nothing wrong with a toyota. Don't give them a hyundai. And still, try to give them the corvette. I don't care if they don't have the desire to be corvettes - they don't have to be. But, I'm still going to put high octane gas in them and give them the proper maintenence.

[/B]

Royal Dragon

11-21-2003, 05:05 AM

Nothing wrong with a toyota. Don't give them a hyundai. And still, try to give them the corvette. I don't care if they don't have the desire to be corvettes - they don't have to be. But, I'm still going to put high octane gas in them and give them the proper maintenence.

Reply]
He he he. With what I have, I could give them a speedier Camaro, and defenetly instill the desire to be Corvettes. But for those that want to be Corvettes, i'd have to pass them off to someone else, and I have no problem doing so.

The problem is this, If I try to give them speedie Camaro's, a large portion won't work hard enough to install the 520 intake - 540 exaust Cam. When I tell them they are going to have to get their hands dirty and pull the front of the motor off to do it, they will quit. They are just not going to be able to fit that type of hard work and dedication to having a fast car into thier lives.

What I want to do, is open in an area where alot of TKD schools are pushing Hyundias, or Kia Sophias, and move thier customers into the Carmry, and maybe even a Camaro or two.