Man plays slappy hand game [Archive] - Kung Fu Magazine Forums

KC Elbows

11-11-2003, 07:03 AM

Let's get back to slamming the wing chun guys.

Here's why:

1) Public slap fights between best known practitioners

2) Too many schools that think sticky hands is fighting

3) The name changes are faster than the practitioners

4) Idiotic lineage infighting in print

5) "Now you see it now you don't" ground fighting

That's right wing chun folks, someone actually said it, your dirty little secrets are out now, you slap boxing mofos, everyone now sees that you are like the drunken aunt of the martial arts family, everyone knows you're nice, but you've got cranberry on your face and you've got that smell that proves that milk ain't the source of ALL cheese.

Ray Pina

11-11-2003, 07:23 AM

**** ....:eek:

cerebus

11-11-2003, 07:31 AM

Wow, a bit harsh there KCE. I'm not a WCer myself but I trained in it about 10 years ago. I actually found it to be very practical & effective. As with most other arts, I think a major component missing from the training in many WC schools is simply full contact sparring. Those schools that have full contact sparring are often able to use their art for real, while those who are afraid of getting hurt, well...;) . T.

fa_jing

11-11-2003, 07:55 AM

Don't worry about KC, he had Jim Bean over for breakfast...;)

cerebus

11-12-2003, 01:18 AM

:eek: Sounds a bit uncomfortable :p . T.

Ikken Hisatsu

11-12-2003, 02:31 AM

the thing i dont get is the stance, it doesnt seem very.... well practical. of course i know sweet f*ck all about wing chun, do they use that stance in sparring as well

(although sticky hands seems rather pointless to me- your average thug on the street wont be playing slapsies)

anton

11-12-2003, 02:38 AM

Originally posted by Ikken Hisatsu
(although sticky hands seems rather pointless to me- your average thug on the street wont be playing slapsies)

Heavy bag work seems rather pointless to me- your average thug on the street wont just be standing there while you beat him senseless.

Three-star hit seems rather pointless to me- your average thug on the street wont be playing forearm hitting games.

Static stance training seems rather pointless to me- your average thug on the street wont be impressed by how long you can sit in horse.

Push-ups seem rather pointless to me- your average thug on the street wont sit and watch while you get down and give him 20.

Forms seem rather pointless to me- your average thug on the street wont be playing silly dancing games

etc...etc...etc....

cerebus

11-12-2003, 02:52 AM

Hey Ikken Hisatsu. Which stance are you referring to (wing Chun has several, for both training and fighting)? I'll take a guess that you may be referring to the frontal pigeon-toed stance (Yee Jee Kim Yeung Ma). If so, that's easily explained. For one thing, it's often used more for training than fighting (much like the low, thighs parallel to groung horse stance of Hung Gar). Practically speaking, however, it CAN be effective. If you get attacked front-on in a crowd or a crowded room (bar, club, etc.) and have no space to maneuver, turnining the knees in helps protect the groin while you deflect any attack to the head/ body. As for Chi Sao, it isn't a fighting method. It's to develop instinctive reactions once contact is made. Instead of just covering against a barrage of punches, you learn to trap & cross the attackers arms up (I've done it in training & had my sparring partner smirk and say "Yeah, but what are you gonna do now? You're hands are busy keeping my arms crossed up" at which I grinned & bonked him lightly on the nose with a headbutt). Peace. T.

anton

11-12-2003, 06:04 AM

Originally posted by cerebus
As for Chi Sao, it isn't a fighting method. It's to develop instinctive reactions once contact is made.

Precisely my point :)

...Unless ofcourse Ikken Hisatsu was being sarcastic, in which case i humbly reinsert my point back into the orifice from which it appeared. :eek:

Ikken Hisatsu

11-12-2003, 10:28 PM

wasnt criticising or anything just asking, like i said I know squat about wing chun- theres probably 1 school in my entire country that teaches it. and yeah i was referring to the pigeon stance thingy

Meat Shake

11-12-2003, 10:30 PM

In san antonio there are schools that have teachers with only 2 years experience teaching.

KC Elbows

11-13-2003, 08:25 AM

Exactly! I've been told that because of its simplicity, it takes the least amount of time to master, yet its proponents are among the first to cite inexperience as an excuse whenever a practitioner is found who is lacking. Or shoe issues.

Tak

11-13-2003, 09:25 AM

I can see how you'd need special shoes for the pigeon-toed stance.

rubthebuddha

11-13-2003, 10:32 AM

least time to master if you're practicing temple-like for 6-8 hours per day. then again, what couldn't you master quickly training like that?

instead, wc has the same concern every other style does -- students who come to two classes per week, train little on their own, yet expect (and often get) regular promotion.

as far as wc's simplicity, i don't think it's any easier to learn than any other style. i find its simplicity to be conceptual -- less driven by quantity or narrowness in application of technique, and more driven by broadness in application. whether it takes more or less time to master this lies in the work ethic of the student.

red5angel

11-13-2003, 10:47 AM

hehe, my favorite subject. KC is correct in his list, especially number 1 and number 2.

The problem with wingchun,. as with any martial art is it takes practice and time but no one wants to do that so you get all those weak ass instructors out there who still thnk chi sao is fighting.

not too mention most WC people are becoming subjects of their own mislead publicity. For an art that is supposed to meant for smaller, weaker people I have yet to meet a smaller weaker person who can use it well enough to beat larger, stronger people.

You did forget to mention KC that most WC guys are great mouth boxers though. Look at the WC forum here for example, it's supposed to contain some of the top guys :rolleyes: although I have to wonder where they are finding time to train between arguing about lineage, and how sensitive they are ;) Sensitive like a bunch of girls maybe! HAH! I crack myselfup!

KC Elbows

11-13-2003, 11:56 AM

In modern terms, wing chun is the chosen art for german sterroid users hungry for photo ops.

red5angel

11-13-2003, 11:59 AM

I think that is Turkish steroid users ;)

red5angel

11-13-2003, 01:39 PM

size will always have an advantage in real scenarios.

So far, while in the striking arts I have practiced size and strength have most certainly come into play, the grappling I am doing now seems to even the playing field quite a bit, enough to surprise me anyway.

uh, where'd you get that one from?!?! all the "top" guys fought for real. the closest we can do now is spar hard full contact with equipment. the guys on here that do that, excluding me I can count on one hand missing a finger or two...

You would think that wouldn't you but you go ahead and ask those guys on the WC forum, if they aren't busy smacking down those on the a$$ they do like.

What's funny to me is that alot of people in a community, say the wingchun community, don't seem to realise that word gets arond, and although people may be telling you you are cool on the forum, I often find that they are talking badly about your skill level in reality. I know of a few really good examples on this particular WC forum who are often heralded as "good", while some of those people on the forum calling them that don't really believe it, and some of their kungfu bros and sisters are talking smack about them around the country. It's one of the reasons I broke away from studying just wingchun. It's so clannish and two faced its sickening and the marketing aspects that are now becoming popular are alot of bold faced lies and misdirections. I won't even get into lineage discussions....

rogue

11-13-2003, 07:45 PM

Red, Maybe you should ask yourself, "What would Carl Dechiara II do?".;)

Wing Chun is an organized means of teaching almost anyone to be effective fighters.

Wing Chun does not rely upon athletic ability, strength, or quick reflexes. Its theory of simplicity and economy of motion make it scientific in nature, unparalleled in close quarter combat, even against multiple attackers.

Wing Chun is the 'equalizer', the 'sawed-off shotgun' of martial arts. Are those statements accurate? :confused:

rubthebuddha

11-13-2003, 10:22 PM

maybe, but they imply a certain level of instant advantage that only something like a gun can give.

wing chun alone is nothing, same as judo, silat, kalari (or kalari-do, as i think kc learned years ago :D), whatever. only practice with that art and good application of the concepts makes it anything useful. in the right hands, wing chun can be fantastic. in the hands of a lazy *******'s who thinks the name of his style makes him a good fighter, wing chun can be like toddler synchronized swimming.

as far as logic of technique, wing chun makes a lot of sense. it can be all those things mentioned, but it requires practice to make yourself somewhat athletic, strong (within your own means) and have good reflexes.

Shaolinlueb

11-13-2003, 10:56 PM

lots of slapping, what else do you expect from a style made by a chick. har dpunching? Mwuahahahahahaha

note* I know nothing of wing chun jsut that the demo's i saw of some "great teachers" doing some wooden dummy form, their hits were weak and not fast at all. i was really let down. and people were like Awww thats greaty. :rolleyes: :(

Lowlynobody

11-14-2003, 12:06 AM

How much evasive charging and retreating footwork techniques does wing chun have? A lot of what I have seen is very stationary and linear. Is there more to it? Do they do evasive, charging, retreating 45 stepping footwork drills?

txwingchun

11-14-2003, 07:22 AM

Originally posted by Lowlynobody
How much evasive charging and retreating footwork techniques does wing chun have? A lot of what I have seen is very stationary and linear. Is there more to it? Do they do evasive, charging, retreating 45 stepping footwork drills?

yes

red5angel

11-14-2003, 09:37 AM

LOL!@Rogue

wing chun alone is nothing

:eek: You had better sit tight and wait for the wingchun police to come get you Rub.

rubthebuddha

11-14-2003, 09:53 AM

already have a plane ticket to a non-extraditing country. :D

Meat Shake

11-14-2003, 09:55 AM

Ive got a 2 fat blunts and 2 tickets to chilled out mutha ****a land.
:eek:

Actually I dont. Im at work and my thumb hurts, Im hungry, and need to crap. Maybe I should go hang out on the WC forum so I can cry about it.
:mad:

:D

red5angel

11-14-2003, 10:05 AM

or atleast argue about how to crap with proper structure and then decide whether or not you are truly Krapping or not. notice I used the true spelling of Krapping, not that watered down crap.

rubthebuddha

11-14-2003, 10:08 AM

and keep your elbows in, for pete's sake.

and spelling -- a rose by any other name would still be a ****ing flower. :D

Meat Shake

11-14-2003, 10:11 AM

But it would have a different name, and thus no longer be a "rose". It would be the same flower, but no longer of the same name. :o

Im tired. Think its about time for a 2 hour lunch so I can take a nice nap. I love this job.
:D

Mr Punch

11-15-2003, 07:04 AM

Originally posted by red5angel
or atleast argue about how to crap with proper structure and then decide whether or not you are truly Krapping or not. notice I used the true spelling of Krapping, not that watered down crap. LOL

LMMFAO

:D:D:D

That has to be one of the funniest things I've seen on this board!

black and blue

11-18-2003, 06:51 AM

Jeez Red5Angel, you've changed your tune bigtime! :eek:

WingTsun is a great art - like all CMAs. Is it better than others? Not necessarily. Is it full of more politics? Yes, definitely :)

Like someone else said, Chi Sau is to Wing Chun what Push Hands is to Tai Chi.

The pigeon-toed stance is a training stance but also the root of all WT's other stances. Looks kinda stupid, functions perfectly.

Top flight instructors on the Wing Chun forum? :eek: You're kidding, right? There aren't any top flight instructors on ANY of the KFO forums. Just some students of top flight instructors. ;)

PHILBERT

11-18-2003, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by black and blue
Jeez Red5Angel, you've changed your tune bigtime! :eek:

WingTsun is a great art - like all CMAs. Is it better than others? Not necessarily. Is it full of more politics? Yes, definitely :)

Like someone else said, Chi Sau is to Wing Chun what Push Hands is to Tai Chi.

The pigeon-toed stance is a training stance but also the root of all WT's other stances. Looks kinda stupid, functions perfectly.

Top flight instructors on the Wing Chun forum? :eek: You're kidding, right? There aren't any top flight instructors on ANY of the KFO forums. Just some students of top flight instructors. ;)

What's a flight instructor?

black and blue

11-18-2003, 09:31 AM

Kung Fu cats who can fly planes... obviously! :D

old jong

11-18-2003, 02:37 PM

A few contributors to this thread are funny...Some are just ignorant...One is just plain stupid!...;)

KC Elbows

11-18-2003, 02:44 PM

Old Jong, don't your troll this thread! This is pretrolled material, I'll not have you sullying it with your hands, stinky from slappy hand fighting!

It's obvious that everything said about wing chun here is true, it's entirely unrealistic. It's like fighting fire with confetti. I mean it.

Meat Shake

11-18-2003, 11:41 PM

I once fought a fire with an old man. His name was sal. You see, sal was a sad old man, with not much of a home life. His wife had left him for his brother several years ago, leaving a depressed shell of what was once a man. Sal began to drink heavily. His drinking landed him in many a drunken brawl, and several times he was on the receiving end of a bottle being thrown. Soon he became not much more intelligent than a piece of wood. He started smoking crack and whoring himself for little to no money. Anything for a hit. One day I was walking my cat down an alley, and I saw sal. I said "Hey old crackhead, do you want a buscuit?"
And indeed, he wanted a buscuit. I gave him his buscuit, and he happily ate it. I now felt content, and expected something good to now happent to me. I am a "karmatic *****" if you will. Nothing good happened, so this time I gave him a cookie. Still nothing good. "Something must be broken..." I muttered. Sal smiled a crusty cut lipped smile, and handed me his broken crack pipe.
To be continued...

shaolin kungfu

11-18-2003, 11:58 PM

What a coincidence, my dads name is sal.

cerebus

11-19-2003, 02:25 AM

Well, something really IS obvious here and that is the fact that some people here don't know much about Wing Chun, but that's far from unusual. It's just too bad that practicing martial artists often seem to know little more about the martial arts than the average Joe Schmoe off the street. Oh well. To each his own. Peace. T.

KC Elbows

11-20-2003, 08:00 PM

One of my training partners is a talented wing chun player who also has a subtle sense of humor.

But this is a serious thread.

How do you explain your grandmasters' fighting? Huh? I thought not!

It's because wing chun takes special orthopedics! That's right!

Sticky hands splits an important aspect of fighting into an inapplicable mess by assuming people are too slow to be taught the same idea with a "whole body approach" right from the start, instead of saying "now your feet will be stationairy". The practice gives the illusion of shortening the learning curve on it by taking a stationairy, and thus largely static, version of it that obviously will require a shorter learning curve to learn, and making that the focus, instead of making the students use the same concepts in motion right from the start. It turns one long learning curve into one short one, and one further one(for those who bother) that requires unlearning habits developed by doing the practice without stepping.

I said it here first, boyo: wing chun forms are so compact because there's not a lot of room for forms on the short bus!