Single Leg--Head Inside or Outside ???

[Oso]

back in the day :D

circa 1981-85

the single leg was shot with the head to the inside to keep the noggin away from that nasty cross face.

now, it seems, that the single is shot with the head outside.

why?

[Ralphie]

inside unless you like the guillotine (sp). I don't. Outside only if you have a underhook and leg high so you're setting up for a trip.

[truewrestler]

Generally there is a single leg (head to the inside) and a high-crotch is with the head to the outside. There are variations of low shots with the head to the outside but they aren't as common. When I shoot a high-crotch I almost always switch to a double leg immediately.

You can get into a lot of trouble with the head to the outside on the single (high-crotch) because your opponent can spin and get your back with your arm trapped. Using the single leg (head to the inside), you can get caught in an omo-plata (not that common) but it is the safer of the two. The double leg with the head to the outside can get you caught with the guillotine but just like it is often easy to get... it is easy to defend.

Just gotta be careful on those takedowns :)

edit: MerryPrankster should have some good feedback on this topic

[brothernumber9]

on a single leg with the head to the outside, if the head is pushed up against the leg or side, then a crossface or guillotine is not so easy to apply, of course it can still be done, but it is not as easy as some people may think. A guillotine can be attempted from either side of a single leg but with less leverage from the inside. With the head to the outside two advantages are that the opponent's back or a side mount can be achieved easier from the take down (from a mobility stand point). the head to the inside can keep you protected a little better on the shoot and can fascilitate control of both legs easier and passing the guard. Of course it all depends on who you try to use them on.

[Oso]

inside unless you like the guillotine (sp). I don't. Outside only if you have a underhook and leg high so you're setting up for a trip.

agreed.


Generally there is a single leg (head to the inside) and a high-crotch is with the head to the outside. There are variations of low shots with the head to the outside but they aren't as common. When I shoot a high-crotch I almost always switch to a double leg immediately.

ok, so technically two different things.



You can get into a lot of trouble with the head to the outside on the single (high-crotch) because your opponent can spin and get your back with your arm trapped.

wizzer, right?
that's what we worked on last night...defending against the single after your leg has been caught from the kick. mostly went to the wizzer and cross faces.




Using the single leg (head to the inside), you can get caught in an omo-plata (not that common) but it is the safer of the two. The double leg with the head to the outside can get you caught with the guillotine but just like it is often easy to get... it is easy to defend.

Just gotta be careful on those takedowns

edit: MerryPrankster should have some good feedback on this topic[QUOTE]

saw omo-plata last night as well, but just for a second.

was curious about it as in HS the rule as taught to us was cut and dry:

Single = head inside
Double = head outside

just wondering what sort of evolution had taken place.

thanks

btw, Apoweyn has some more clips from my judo matches this past weekend. Since I am still much more a kung fu guy with a wrestling back ground than judo, I look forward to criticisms from you guys.

[truewrestler]

wizzer, right?
that's what we worked on last night...defending against the single after your leg has been caught from the kick. mostly went to the wizzer and cross faces.
a wh!zzer (spelled with an H but the word wh!z is blocked on ths site) is used when they have the head to the inside, crossface is when the have the head to the outside. Also, the only time I don't switch to a doulbe off the high crotch is when have a really good setup for the takedown that leaves my opponent off balance enough that I can turn the corner. That of course is what I did in wrestling but I'm more cautious in submission wrestling/bjj.


was curious about it as in HS the rule as taught to us was cut and dry:

Single = head inside
Double = head outside

just wondering what sort of evolution had taken place. Wrestling hasn't changed in ohhh..... at least 75 years :) so what you say is correct ...but also high single with the head to the outside is called a high crotch and a low single with the head to the outside is called "a low single with the head outside" and is also know as the "John Smith single" or similar phrase, named after Olympic wrestler known for said takedown.

After all that, a shooting attack on 1 leg is technically a single leg regardless of placement of the head. Names and terms were just shortened over time.

[Meat Shake]

Shooting with the head to the outside already? "Please put me in a crucifix"?
:rolleyes:

I dont shoot, and when people do shoot, I try and move their head to the outside if it isnt already there.

[truewrestler]

Please put me in a crucifix Good luck with that one :D

[Meat Shake]

Sheeot, its one of my favorite moves. :eek:
I practice it, and use it in free wrestling. :eek: :eek:
Ill soon to be using it in sparring as well. :eek: :eek: :eek:

[brothernumber9]

"please put me in a crucifix"
what is a crucifix? is that like a double underhook?
I wasn't a great wrestler only won about half my matches and we didn't learn many particular names to techniques or set ups. I would shoot the single leg a lot more than double (mainly because everyone was about 10-12 lbs heavier than me and I would get squashed by the sprawl).

[Meat Shake]

"like a double underhook?"

more or less.

[truewrestler]

Meat Shake,

Please explain how the crucifix submission is done when someone shoots a high crotch (single with head to the outside). I'll help... you can't :p. If you are referring to the crucifix position then yeah... I have seen that as a counter to the high crotch but rarely see someone finish from there.

The double leg takedown, which is with the head to the outside, is the most common takedown in grappling and MMA. I haven't seen many if any matches with someone finished with a crucifix as a counter to the double leg.

[Merryprankster]

Oso and truewrestler have caught the correct on single legs and high crotches.

Singles should be done with the head on the inside. Head on the outside results in a crossface.


Brothernumber9,

You can mitigate a crossface by gluing your head to their body, but this is TEMPORARY. You need to turn the corner ASAP or enjoy having your head snapped back. The bottom line is that a single with the head on the outside is a bad idea unless you are turning the corner immediately, ala high crotch.

TW has caught the insanely incorrect about the Crucifix :D (no hard feelings...). You most certainly CAN hit a crucifix from a person shooting a single/high crotch with the head on the outside. You just have to create the space between your leg and the inside arm. You will of course sit through to finish it on the ground.

Nobody with any ounce of experience or a decent base will allow you to crucifix them off a shot. LOUSY counter.

I use the john smith single almost exclusively when shooting to my right. Duck under and arm drags to my left...

[brothernumber9]

'You can mitigate a crossface by gluing your head to their body, but this is TEMPORARY. You need to turn the corner ASAP or enjoy having your head snapped back. The bottom line is that a single with the head on the outside is a bad idea unless you are turning the corner immediately, ala high crotch.'

agreed, I had enough racoon eyes to imply otherwise

[truewrestler]

TW has caught the insanely incorrect about the Crucifix (no hard feelings...). You most certainly CAN hit a crucifix from a person shooting a single/high crotch with the head on the outside. ****... foiled again... I know I know... you CAN but good luck :)

Good point... there are many things you can do once you get the inside arm underhooked and arm around the head.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
I use the john smith single almost exclusively when shooting to my right.

What's a John Smith single?

[truewrestler]

View all the preview videos on these pages (seems to be some overlap)

http://www.goldmedalvideos.com/smithlow.htm

http://www.goldmedalvideos.com/smithcreds.htm

For some reason I was under the impression that he was known for using the head on the outside. I don't see that in these videos so can someone let me know for sure if this is incorrect. Thanks

[Meat Shake]

I dont really use the crucifix for a submission. I use it as a takedown from having someone in a headlock, but usually instead of underhooking the inside arm, I force the shoulder down while kicking out the inside leg and pulling up on the outside arm which Ive underhooked.

[Water Dragon]

Are you talking about flipping the turtle off a sprawl MS?

[truewrestler]

Originally posted by Meat Shake
I dont really use the crucifix for a submission. I use it as a takedown from having someone in a headlock, but usually instead of underhooking the inside arm, I force the shoulder down while kicking out the inside leg and pulling up on the outside arm which Ive underhooked. Ok, that's the crucifix position not submission. Completely different but just as ineffective :)

[Meat Shake]

Erm... Dunno the name of it.
Set up & execution -
Attacker shoots in, we'll say to your right side. Your arm wraps around his head, control his right arm. Your arm around his head shoots up under his left armpit, your left elbow drops onto his right shoulder. Your right arm pulls up while the left forces downward, take his right leg either with your right or more preferably the left (if its strong enough).
Works great tho, whatever its called.

[Meat Shake]

Id use the crucifix in its place, but in training thats a kinda dangerous thing to be using... Im not about breaking someone's neck. But if you think its ineffective or unusable... maybe you need some better training partners. :eek:

[Oso]

hey meathead, I mean 'shake'

your pm box is full.

[truewrestler]

Does that counter to the takedown regularly work for and against you?

Do you and your training partners regularly get tapped with the crucifix?


Id use the crucifix in its place, but in training thats a kinda dangerous thing to be using... Im not about breaking someone's neck. Interesting comment the gives me great insight into your training ;)

[Meat Shake]

Erm... if you know what you are doing its actually pretty easy to break a neck like that... mine popped last time I was in it...
I dont go for submissions usually.

"Interesting comment the gives me great insight into your training"

lol. Say that to kirk. :rolleyes:

"Does that counter to the takedown regularly work for and against you"

This makes no sense.

"Do you and your training partners regularly get tapped with the crucifix?"

Nope. I use the set up for it for a takedown. You apparently havent touched hands with many skilled people or you wouldnt be so cocky.

Oso- done.

[Merryprankster]

I really don't want to get dragged into this argument, but in my experience, the crucifix is a counter that works well only on people without much mat time.

If it's working for you, great. But I think there are far better ways to deal with this.

Secondly, the crucifix most certainly can break a neck. Classifying it as "easy" however, isn't really accurate. We've got to get away from this idea that breaking necks is a simple task. It isn't.

[truewrestler]

Erm... if you know what you are doing its actually pretty easy to break a neck like that... mine popped last time I was in it...
I dont go for submissions usually. Did you tapout or did the person applying it decide you weren't going to and let up?


"Interesting comment the gives me great insight into your training"

lol. Say that to kirk. :rolleyes: Sorry but that wasn't a negative comment. Everyone trains differently


"Does that counter to the takedown regularly work for and against you"

This makes no sense. I'm just asking if you get it on others regularly and if they get you with it regularly.


"Do you and your training partners regularly get tapped with the crucifix?"

Nope. I use the set up for it for a takedown. You apparently havent touched hands with many skilled people or you wouldnt be so cocky. We are talking about the entry to the crucifix position? Very interesting that its a common counter because I would figure anyone decent at takedowns would have you on your ass before you get the chance to try it. I have "touched hands", and many other body parts, with highly skilled grapplers. I however have trouble training consistently.

by the way... cool technique to post blocked words :)

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Meat Shake
You apparently havent touched hands with many skilled people or you wouldnt be so co Can you name some "skilled" grapplers you have rolled with?

[Jowbacca]

Hope you guys don't mind if I bu tt in on this conversation.
Just had some questions about shooting.

For starters I've seen double & single legs that were more about breaking balance versus shooting in to scoop up and slam Rampage Jackson style.

I'm assuming for the single leg, whether your just looking to trip 'em up, or you wanna hoist 'em up to slam 'em down; either way, you should shoot with head inside the thigh, right?
Especially in a MMA/wrestling/grappling type match where the counter submission could be applied?

I'm just curious cuz it seems that head inside would mean supporting the weight more with one arm versus the other; and would also somewhat change the angle of your shoot.

I've managed to pull off the scooping one, with head outside the leg, in practise, and I guess it means I should try to modify somewhat to get the head inside and stay safer...

[Water Dragon]

I'm having a little trouble following this topic myself, but I will say this. Knifefighter, Truewrestler, Meatshake is training with one of the best Shuai Chiao guys in the country, hands down. I've trained with Kirk myself, and I'll vouch for him anytime. That doesn't mean a whole lot on the 'net as we've never trained together ourselves. But if you're gonna talk $hit about MS's teacher, understand that you're walking around with a mouth full of $hit.

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Water Dragon
Meatshake is training with one of the best Shuai Chiao guys in the country, hands down. Has he ever entered any open grappling competitions?

[truewrestler]

Jowbacca,

Where are you in Maryland? I'm in Northern Virginia.


I'm just curious cuz it seems that head inside would mean supporting the weight more with one arm versus the other; and would also somewhat change the angle of your shoot. Inside or Outside? Just wanted to make sure that wasn't a typo or understand the question better before giving some specific input.

I shoot a single (head inside) and high-crotch (head outside) very differently. The single and double generally use the basic shooting motion. For the high-crotch I use more of a swimming motion -- leading with my inside shoulder and knee, knee maybe tapping the ground while I reach with my inside arm under my opponent to the leg and then square up and circle or switch to the double. I generally find it much easier to shoot a high-crotch than a double leg in wrestling/grappling because it is one quick motion with your body instead of moving your entire body on the double.

There are few finishes to the single leg or high-crotch where you lift your opponent off the ground and slam... that is almost exclusive to the double leg.

Water Dragon,

I'll try to keep my mouth clean

[Jowbacca]

Well goin back to some of what WaterDragon said; havin this conversation degrade into a style vs style; this or that won't work; name-callin fest would be a shame.

I think there was probably a bit of friction of what would and wouldn't work once BJJ people and wrestlers started exchanging.

Just asking that you guys let cooler heads prevail and keep this a friendly exchange.

Whether you do something different, or you have a counter to a particular move; I'd rather see sharing instead of "laying down the law" and implying that someone doesn't know what they're talking about.

Not tryin to be a tree hugger or your daddy, I just think these kind of discussions could be a real positive thing.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Knifefighter
Has he ever entered any open grappling competitions?

Probably more of a San Shou type match. What I can tell you for sure is that Kirk just got 3rd black a couple weeks ago, and one of the requirements for black in our organization is, "A respectable tournament fighting record." There's a lot of leeway in that, but the tournament will have both striking and stand up wrestling in it.

So Open grappling with groundwork? Probably not
Striking and throws? Well yeah, like I said, it's a requirement.

[Jowbacca]

I live in Glen Burnie. I've gone down to work with Kru Miller & Jeff down there in Virginia a few times. Met ShaolinTiger00, Apoweyn, and MerryP last winter at 3rd Power for the big MD/VA/DC exchange. Way past due for another one by the way.

I think what I do is similar to a high crotch. Basically what happens is I'll lead with a kick and then go to hands once I closed distance. If the other guy's starting to light me up, I shoot in on his lead leg; head outside, shoulder squeezing in on the inside of the thigh as my (usually) left arm wraps around, bicep high up on the thigh, elbow down, fist up. From there I can usually hoist the guy up for a slam- lifting up directly under his center of gravity.

edit: it's practically a fireman's carry without securing his arm.

I figure if I shoot head inside the thigh, I've gotta lean in way to the left so that my rear (right arm) can grab his thigh- but won't be as close to his center of balance, so I could see it being harder to lift unless I went the extra step for the double leg. Plus coming down the center instead of kind of arcing down and to the right might put me in range for more of his tools.

I'm going to try to work on it, I'm just raising some issues that are popping into my head.

[truewrestler]

That's great that competition is a requirement

I think you guys just misunderstand. MerryPrankster wrestled in highschool and some in college. I would guess well over 100 wrestling matches and 4 or 5 years in BJJ with dozens of bjj/grappling matches. He is a purple belt in BJJ which is generally considered the black belt level of other martial arts.

If he makes a comment about submissions or wrestling takedowns (his specialties) I take that to heart.

I don't know Kirk but from what you say he is not big into submissions so I'll go with my experience and what MP says.

Really not a big deal and no disrespect intended with my previous posts.

[Merryprankster]

3.5 years of BJJ.

As far as my wrestling, let's not overstate the case. I was a talented HS wrestler who didn't work near **** hard enough to reach my potential. As far as college, I only wrestled a year and a half before I quit....being 17 and wrestling 23 year olds has a way of destroying your will to live--especially when you've got military requirements on top of academic ones, etc.

Although I have had probably hundreds of grappling matches--that I'll grant you. :D

[Jowbacca]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
....being 17 and wrestling 23 year olds has a way of destroying your will to live--especially when you've got military requirements on top of academic ones, etc.

Yah, I get the same feeling when I spar MusicalKataChamp.... or when I get KOed by a kick I shoulda seen 5 minutes before it landed... :D

[Oso]

Just asking that you guys let cooler heads prevail and keep this a friendly exchange.

Whether you do something different, or you have a counter to a particular move; I'd rather see sharing instead of "laying down the law" and implying that someone doesn't know what they're talking about.

Not tryin to be a tree hugger or your daddy, I just think these kind of discussions could be a real positive thing.

yes, please.

this is a good discussion.



I didn't shoot a single or double in HS. Never really worked for me for whatever reason, not fast enough maybe.

my senior year it was all firemans with the occasional 'barnyard' toss which I got when they read my firemans...as I remember they would back out of the firemans but be really bent over and I would grab the head, stand up and pop the hip into them.

but that doesn't really matter since there's 18 years of water under the bridge.

my question came up because I was shown a single with the head to the outside last night and we were working counters to that and it seemed contradictory to what I remembered. I've also seen what appears to be a lot of single legs in vid clips I've downloaded but now that 'high crotch' is thrown in that may be what I'm looking at.

so, in a high crotch, the head would be higher on the torso...closer to the ribs vs near the leg??? don't remember this from HS.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by truewrestler


I don't know Kirk but from what you say he is not big into submissions so I'll go with my experience and what MP says.


That's fine. We're not big into subs. My point is that you shouldn't take Meat Shakes inability to explain a concept as Kirk's inability to explain or perform it. It's not exactly a stupid man's commentary on a wise man's words, but it is a 3 month white belts commentary on a 20 year black belt's teachings. That's not a slam on MS, he's trying, and if he hasn't quit that class yet, he's a down mutha ****a. You'll get there Bro, just remember to tuck and not bang your ankles ;)

[CrippledAvenger]

and watch out for the black hand groin rippers! :D

[Water Dragon]

Yeah? Keep talking $hit Crip. Wait until you see the black hand for Diagonal Cut this Saturday. Hope ya got a good neck.

[CrippledAvenger]

Sweet! If it don't kill me, it'll be fuuuuun. Man, this whole fight thing's going to be nothing after our classes. ;)

edit: I hope I have a good neck too. I've been doing those neck excercizes from Miguel's class. They'd better be worth something, ******!

Now, back to your regularly scheduled thread.:D

[Meat Shake]

lol...
Whatever... Im too blunted to argue right now, Will continue in the morning. I explained it how it works. I train it like that. I wrestle with a purple belt Im friends with here in town. Its not my business to name names. Irrelevant anyhoo.

[No_Know]

Criticism/Comment(s) on the videos' material.

01. a grab like that on your part, press the foot to your side. Turn to the other side and down (reverse direction and you can add a sweep to the lower leg). The purpose is to rotate the leg at the hip by turning it to the inside (small circle)
....The shifing from clockwise to counter-clockwise and back agian I think is a useful tactic coupled with intent and timing.
....Your distance and stancing before entering was good and smart. You allow them an opportunity for them to make exploitable mistakes. Good for you.
....You try for a specific technique. perhaps you would consider going with what is offered instead of always going for a pre-set hold.
....Your kneeling flexibility seemed good.
....Shifting weight with your bounce makes a window where you Can't move-ish if they catch the timg-ish.
....Mind your rushed breathing (try less hard)
....I liked your waiting and switching-up.
....That untelegraphed lowerbody hop/switch-up is Beautiful. (Keep-up the sensory deception)

02.

....The dip then strech your leg in works for you.
....Establish an understanding of stepping (mirror/opposite) learto lead your opponent's leg into optimum sweep Range and Know your range.
The lean-down with the dip at the end is good before you sweep but also an obvious move to say you are going to move.
....You or opponent might have been other than well versed.

03.

....Resting on your kneeshelps you be more moveable.
....Letting your body be dead weight might be of assistance in this situation.

04.

...You might consider a punching spinning kick.
....More extention before you land the kick or drop it into sometingels or you might get repelled because your support leg is too close~.
....Your steps seem heavy though your stance can float (good~).
....If you shift your weight, do other than pick(rock)-up your feet to do it.
....Spin kick with your lead elbow held lower
More...more...hungry to see...:-)
....I like that you invite them to attack and the verticle forarm block (and that you are intercept minded).

[No_Know]

More a T'ai Chi Ch'uan type stepping when shifting weight or moving.

[chingei]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
I only wrestled a year and a half before I quit....

Nooooooooooooooooooo ! :( That's too bad.

[Merryprankster]

I only wrestled a year and half in COLLEGE before I quit. I really couldn't handle the beatdowns on top of everything else.

I wrestled in High school.

[chingei]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
I only wrestled a year and half in COLLEGE before I quit. I really couldn't handle the beatdowns on top of everything else.

I wrestled in High school.

I got it. I just didn't quote the whole thing. (being lazy)

[Merryprankster]

I suspect at a normal college, I would have been ok.

[chingei]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
I suspect at a normal college, I would have been ok.

Well, military obligations are a hell of a lot more important to be sure!

[Merryprankster]

Not really, I just couldn't do it all on 5-6 hours of sleep a night.

[chingei]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
Not really, I just couldn't do it all on 5-6 hours of sleep a night.

Well, well! Quite the lady's man!

[Merryprankster]

LOL, I wish. Academics, military and sports doesn't really leave much time for sleep at the Coast Guard Academy.

It's like west point, just for those of us who don't really want to be shot at...:P

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Merryprankster


It's like west point, just for those of us who don't really want to be shot at...:P

pu$$y

[Merryprankster]

Yeah, we just go INTO major storms with 30-40 ft swells that takes your prop out of the water to rescue stupid people in the middle of the night in the Alaskan winter, instead, LOL!

[ShaolinTiger00]

As someone who was an Ohio District winner, a 3 time state qualifier and a wrestler at Kent State University (MAC conference)for 4 years(& an alternate my freshman year), I might have something to add...


A head outside single can be effectively done.

BUT it must be shot @ the lead leg and it must be followed with your trailing leg immediately comming up to hook behind the heel of the captured leg as you slam him backwards.

crossface smoshface.. 1. your chin should be tucked down anyways. 2. suck it up wrestling is rough.

Crucifix? What idiot would let his outside arm get caught in that? bench that douchebag.. seriously... ELBOWS DOWN!

This may lead into a semantics argument.. because this is not a "typical" single leg takedown. grab & lift. this version is really more of a secure & trip.

As an add alternate I've also known guys who would shoot head outside, bring both knees together to hold captured leg and take inside arm and place it between opponents legs to the back side of his opposite ankle and then drive thru.. litterally stopping the opponents heels dead on the spot.

My 2 cents. for what it's worth.

[chingei]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
As someone who was an Ohio District winner, a 3 time state qualifier and a wrestler at Kent State University (MAC conference)for 4 years(& an alternate my freshman year), I might have something to add...



:rolleyes:
Was that little bit of self-promotion really necessary to make your point?

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by chingei
Was that little bit of self-promotion really necessary to make your point? I don't think that was necessarily self promotion- maybe just establishing credibility? Versus someone who has been training grappling for 3 or 4 months with someone who is "supposed" to be a good grappler.

[Oso]

as a 4 year HS wrestler who never medaled in the conferance tournament until his senior year and hasn't stepped into a wrestling room since 1986, I was trying to catch up on the new stuff :p ;)



BUT it must be shot @ the lead leg

I'm so slow I can't even imagine shooting at the BACK leg.


crossface smoshface.. 1. your chin should be tucked down anyways. 2. suck it up wrestling is rough.

sure, wrestling is tough, and I get a sick pleasure from being hit and I understand how you are saying it should be done, but why would you intentionally put yourself someplace where there is a known counter, unless you want to work something off of that counter?


***edit***
and yea, there is a counter to everything

so, my understanding is that there are many variations of the 'classic' single leg, some of which may have the head to the outside if done correctly.

t'anks.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
A head outside single can be effectively done.

BUT it must be shot @ the lead leg and it must be followed with your trailing leg immediately comming up to hook behind the heel of the captured leg as you slam him backwards.

Is it possible to shoot a single in this manner with the head inside? Does having the head outside make the mechanics of it easier in some way?

[chingei]

Originally posted by Knifefighter
Versus someone who has been training grappling for 3 or 4 months with someone who is "supposed" to be a good grappler.

come again?

[chingei]

Originally posted by FatherDog


Is it possible to shoot a single in this manner with the head inside?

You would probably finish differently.

[ShaolinTiger00]

I don't think that was necessarily self promotion- maybe just establishing credibility? Versus someone who has been training grappling for 3 or 4 months with someone who is "supposed" to be a good grappler.

Knifefighter has given the correct a bannana split and proceeded to check it's oil..

[truewrestler]

lol ST

[Oso]

Knifefighter has given the correct a bannana split and proceeded to check it's oil..

that's just a wrong picture....:p

[ShaolinTiger00]

but why would you intentionally put yourself someplace where there is a known counter, unless you want to work something off of that counter?

A duck under could also be considered a variation to a head outside single..

[Oso]

true, and thereby the guillotine.

he, in the finals of my senior year conf tourney I got nailed with a guillotine when I tried shooting a fireman's.

like I said in the beginning of this thread, our coach just gave us the simple rule of single>>inside & double>>outside and I've been seeing a lot of different stuff as I've delved back into it lately and was curious.



TW, btw, I think that wrestling has changed a lot. I just caught a couple of matches on ESPN2 (the World Freestyle Champs, maybe) and there's a lot I didn't used to see in the 80's. Basics are basics and those probably havn't changed but there seems to be some new 'moves' for lack of a better name.

[truewrestler]

Oso, I'm guessing then that you stuck to folkstyle

[truewrestler]

in the finals of my senior year conf tourney I got nailed with a guillotine when I tried shooting a fireman's.

guillotine pinning combination(wrestling term) or choke(bjj/submission term)?

[Oso]

uhhh, don't know exactly what 'folkstyle' is. Wrestled what i've always referred to as 'collegiate' style and a short foray into freestyle and greco-roman after I graduated HS.


guillotine pinning combos, although he didn't pin me. he only beat me 17-2, that's all :p

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Oso
uhhh, don't know exactly what 'folkstyle' is. Wrestled what i've always referred to as 'collegiate' style and a short foray into freestyle and greco-roman after I graduated HS.

High school and college wrestling == folkstyle.

Pretty much the same techniques as freestyle, but the scoring is very different, which means matches are wrestled entirely differently.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Fatherdog has determined that the correct was a 1/2 quart low, and has jammed the funnel in and proceeded to pour it on down..

;)

[Meat Shake]

I cleaned the bathroom and cant get the smell of amonia off my hands.
D@MMIT!
Anyhow, What are we talking about now? Why go for the shoot when you can throw?! :confused:
;)
Im really tired...

[ShaolinTiger00]

Meaty - well I can think of 2 reasons..

1.) you want to get this guy to the ground asap. maybe he's drunk or you don't want to f him up too bad, but just need to restrain him. you shoot, get a dominant position and hold him down. no blood spilled.

2.) for some people, throws aren't where they want to be. They want to go from the free movement phase right into the ground phase. (ie. early royce gracie) or ironically the strikers who want to sprawl and brawl. if they see an opporitunity they'll shoot quickly from a striking range vs. closing into a clinch that is mush more comfortable to any grappler..

the standing clinch is a very big skillset, and takes lots of time & training to develop..

[Meat Shake]

Yeah... we work the standing clinch all the time... Im actually getting to prefer being in a clinch... :eek:
:)

[Oso]

FD, oh...ok. had heard of folkstyle but never associated with what I had done.


and while I was in a strange town I worked out at a BJJ school.
good workout, had a guy my size as a training partner, picked up a couple of new drills from him. of the two things the instructor showed one was a variation of a scissors takedown I had never seen or thought about before and the other was a submit from a gi grab that I had seen before.

my training partner was very skilled and a nice guy, the instructor was affable though I didn't exactly speak to him much past the introduction. wish I had had more time to visit.

good experience and the big lesson was...I need more ab work !