Mandarin/cantonese Terminology [Archive]

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NYerRoman

03-08-2003, 07:00 PM

I have studied several styles over the years, learned all the positions, kicks, etc. in Mandarin.

I have moved to Rome a year and a half ago, signed up in another school, started learning another style (hung gar), BUT am being instructed with the Cantonese names of everything.

Does anyone know of a quick guide and/or site with translations of everything in both languages....and perhaps English?

Sho

03-09-2003, 04:53 AM

Try www.mandarintools.com/chardict.html.

Surferdude

03-09-2003, 09:18 AM

Well GaoJia means puppy or dog or somethin like that in cantonese so you can say that alot!!!!!:D :p

Kristoffer

03-09-2003, 11:46 AM

:confused:

Yeah you COULD say that alot.. pretty awsome!! yeah... :rolleyes:

Kristoffer

03-09-2003, 11:47 AM

Hum Ga Ling (P==K) ;)

NYerRoman

03-09-2003, 12:32 PM

Sho,
Thanks for the site.
But it won't translate "hello."

Is there a secret to working it?

dezhen2001

03-09-2003, 01:15 PM

it only translates words that use 1 character without any tense... for eg: "smashing" you just put "smash"... "fist" instead of "boxing" etc.

good luck ;)
dawood

dezhen2001

03-09-2003, 01:22 PM

also if any chinese sites have the actual chinese u can copy and paste in...GB is for simplified chinese and big-5 does traditional.

or go by the pinyin or yale romanization.

Also, if you know the "radical" (which is like the main part that makes up the character, to define the 'section' if you like), then you can search by it and probably also the number of strokes to make it up.

will take a while im sure :)

dawood

Former castleva

03-09-2003, 01:31 PM

"Hello" is "nei hou" in cantonese."Nei" starts steadily and rises in the end while "hou" is somewhat stable. :)

prana

03-09-2003, 04:13 PM

gao jai = lit: dog child (male) mean: puppy
as for some words to help you get started

Shou = Sau ---> Hand
Gong = Gong --> Work
Shen = San --> Spirit / God
Mah Pu = Mah Pou --> Horse stance
Qi = Hei --> Chi/Qi
i = yat --> 1
er = yee --> 2
san = san --> 3
tze = sei --> 4
wu = mmm --> 5

Ham Kah Ling --> :p Dont say it to your sifu or you will be it....

I dunno what words you want and my mandarine ( and cantonese ) is fast deteriorating...

omarthefish

03-09-2003, 07:55 PM

liu = luk ---> 6
qi = chut ---> 7
ba = bat/pa ---> 8
jiu = gow ---> 9
shi = sup ---> 10

hu = fu= tiger
he = hok = crane

jin = gum = gold
shui = soi = water

tie = tit = iron
hsing = yin
tit seen = iron wire
sup yin = ten forms

yut yi choi = "1 day fist" = verticle fist (looks like the character for 'sun' or 'day')
ping choi = horizontal fist

tsop = cutting
sei ping ma = 4 died horse/square horse

dezhen2001

03-09-2003, 10:04 PM

LOL prana :D My lkimited cantonese has gone too... but i still know food so at least am not gonna go hungry :p

if you are just wanting a translation (ot transliteration) of the form exercises then it will take some time, but i think it can be done if you have either the chinese characters or english words.

good luck dude! :)
dawood

NYerRoman

11-12-2003, 10:25 AM

Hey all.
I am studying Hung Gar for almost 3 years now since I moved back to Rome.

The problem is in the 14 years training (shaolin, wushu, tang lang, sanda, etc.), I've learned most terminology in Mandarin.
NOW I have to learn it all in Cantonese. I'm getting the jist of it but this year I have an exam.

Does anyone know of a MANDARIN/CANTONESE/ENGLISH book that gives you all the positions, blocks, punches in all three?

Thank you.
peace brothers and sisters.

norther practitioner

11-12-2003, 02:22 PM

I don't know of any...

Marky

11-12-2003, 07:07 PM

Good luck, there are over 8 dialects of Cantonese!

Disciple

03-21-2005, 05:08 PM

Which one should I learn for kung fu?

joedoe

03-21-2005, 05:17 PM

Depends on a lot of things. Mandarin is useful since it is the official language of China. However if your art is a Cantonese art it might be useful to learn Cantonese. Then there is also your sifu to consider - which dialect does your sifu speak?

lkfmdc

03-21-2005, 06:55 PM

Disciple

03-21-2005, 08:04 PM

Yeah... I think I'll go with mandarin.

BTW, My current sifu is american and he speaks english but later on I'm moving to SF.

Zaveesha

03-22-2005, 03:23 AM

hi,

I am really interested in learning cantonese - but as Coach Ross said it is hard to fing a text book or courses to learn it - especially in my country where there is very small Chinese population and there are only few courses avaliable - mainly mandarin.

I can communicate a little in a few laguages but I would like to learn also some exotic language and cantonese fit here perfectly.

Coach Ross - could you write a sentence or two - some tips how to avoid the problem while learning cantonese ? what is so special about chinese/cantonese grammar and vocabulary ? I know they use in cantonese 9 tone but 6 six are in general use - I can imagine saying one word in 9 different ways and it can mean totally opposite things.

Any tips for those who want to learn cantonese?
So far I know only some - expressions like - Hei !, Do je, Mei ho ma? ,some gongfu terms. I also know some curse word but don't know what it mean exactly - Dil ni !

Anyone willing to help me?
thanks in advance
DO JE!

P.S This someone wrote about me -Zaveesha, ni ho ging ah!

CFT

03-22-2005, 05:07 AM

Any tips for those who want to learn cantonese?
So far I know only some - expressions like - Hei !, Do je, Mei ho ma? ,some gongfu terms. I also know some curse word but don't know what it mean exactly - Dil ni !
Should be "nei ho ma" = "how are you?"

Dil ni / Diu Nei = F*ck You!!! Not nice at all ...

A good site for Cantonese learners: http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk
Should have links to lots of other online resources too. Or hang around in the forums.

omarthefish

03-22-2005, 05:43 PM

Hate to be a kill joy, but for most Americans, Cantonese is a dialect they will never be able to learn. It is dificult in tone, difficult in vocabulary, difficult in grammar, and it is hard to find good instruction in it....

Mandarin on the other hand has MANY good text books and college level courses you can take. It has only 4 tones. It can be conversational in two semesters for most. It will get you around 95% of China, even major cities in Canton (Guangzhou, etc) thought the Cantonese will laugh at you...

The fact I speak Cantonese is a huge exception to the rule, and remember I was young when I learned it (having HUGE trouble picking up Korean in my late 30's) and was imersed totally in it

I was going to say roughly the same thing but I don't think it's being a killjoy. I have also wondered several times....how the **** did lkfmdc learn Cantonese. Other than being born and raised in Hong Kong, I've never heard of anyone else doing it successfully. There was a girl at a Cafe I used to go to and she fell into that category. Her parents were missionaries and she lived there untill she was about 5 or 6. There are programs in Universities that teach Cantonese but since it is a failr minor dialect when looked at as a percentage of the population, programs that can take you all the way are extrememly rare.

I am at an advantage now learning a dialect because different Chinese dialects are like different Romance languages. Once you got Spainish, Italian's not so hard. But if I go to Hong Kong, everyone will speak English with me and if I go to Guangzhou then I just speak Mandarin and they speak to me in their own really poor mandarin with a heavy Cantonese accent so I don't know how I could get total immersion at this point.

There is no clear standardized for of transcribing the sounds and tones for Cantonese. Mandarin doesn't have this problem. Pinyin is fairly simple and can transcribe exactly the way any Mandarin Chinese word is pronounced.

It is only a realistic question because of the way the politics of the past century have spilled out and resulted in the lions share of emmigration from China coming from Hong Kong or neighboring Guangzhou so it seems like half of all Chinese speakers speak Cantonese when the real figure is less than 5%.

Another thing to consider is that most Cantonese speakers can at least understand Mandarin and that the written language doesn't really change except for regional swear words and the Chienese equivalent of ebonics ie. Chinese "ghetto slang" which often doesn't have a written form even in the area it comes from.

Mo Lung

03-22-2005, 06:50 PM

Learning Cantonese is not as difficult as some of you are making it sound. Of course, Coach Ross is convinced that nobody else can do anything as well as he does it, but still...

To learn Cantonese you ideally need to have face to face, one on one lessons with a native speaker. You start by learning some basics, then having conversations, etc. It's an oral dialect, so you have to learn it as one. Also ideally, you need to immerse yourself in the language as much as possible. Try using it in shops and restaurants (and put up with the laughter and derision at first!). Go to China or Hong Kong and listen and interact.

Obviously, if you are somewhere that doesn't have a very big Cantonese speaking population, then you're starting from a bad point.

And, of course, apart from everything else, if you just want to converse with the Chinese, then learn Mandarin. It's much easier, it has lots of textbook support and courses and just about everyone these days will speak Mandarin, as has been mentioned before. Last time I was in China I came across people in Guangzhou and around that only spoke Mandarin as they had moved down from the north for work, etc.

The only reason that you would want to learn Cantonese is for cultural reasons. My Sifu speaks Cantonese primarily, all our system terminology is in Cantonese, etc., so I learned (hah! am learning, slowly!) the language.

But, Ross and others are partly right in that it is very hard and you're never likely to speak Cantonese like a native. But if it's important to your system, then you will certainly learn enough if you dedicate yourself to the study. But the easy option will always be Mandarin.

Fu-Pow

03-22-2005, 09:38 PM

I probably don't know as much Cantonese as Sifu Ross but I have picked up quite a bit of Cantonese through my teachers and classmates. Most of my knowledge is technical martial arts language. However, because I'm learning a martial art with origins in Guangzhou province it is necessary to learn the language to understand the terminology.

As other have pointed out Mandarin is more widely spoken. In fact, it is the most widely spoken language in the world by a landslide.

Check out this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_speakers

(Business people pay attention....you might want to invest in some Mandarin lessons. )

Cantonese is #18. Unless you have some specific reason to learn Cantonese then you might want to look into Mandarin as others have pointed out.

As for Mandarin being easier to learn than Cantonese I'd have to slightly disagree. The tonality of Cantonese is harder to learn, however I've found that overall their consonants are much easier to pronounce. Mandarin seems to have kind of "slur" to the consonants that makes it harder to pronounce.

As far as romanization goes (and I think Ross is in agreement on this one) the Pinyin seems to work for Mandarin (and its not going away even if we wanted it to) and the Yale system seems to work the best for Cantonese.

Good luck!

jimbob

03-23-2005, 03:15 AM

.......but if you want to learn how to curse really well, perservere with your Cantonese!

:D

CFT

03-23-2005, 04:23 AM

There is no clear standardized for of transcribing the sounds and tones for Cantonese. Mandarin doesn't have this problem. Pinyin is fairly simple and can transcribe exactly the way any Mandarin Chinese word is pronounced.

As far as romanization goes (and I think Ross is in agreement on this one) the Pinyin seems to work for Mandarin (and its not going away even if we wanted it to) and the Yale system seems to work the best for Cantonese.

There are standardized schemes for Cantonese pinyin: the Yale system that Fu-Pow refers to, and Jyutping which is promoted by the Linguistic Society of Hong Kong, amongst others.

But omarthefish is correct in that such schemes are not widely adopted - certainly not by the general populace like Mandarin pinyin seems to be.

omarthefish

03-23-2005, 04:55 AM

The key is "standardized". Those systems for Cantonese aren't. Maybe I'm using the word wrong. What I mean is that Pinyin is the standard. Wade-Giles isn't even close. It's a common shorthand for non-Chinese speakers and it has slipped into some common usage among non-linguists but it is faaaaaaaaar behind pinyin in accuracy and completeness. For Mandarin, there's pinyin and that's it. You can transcribe mandarin exactly and everyone agrees on how to do it. The dictionaries are all printed that way and that's how computer software for typing in Chinese is designed.

I am not familiar with the Cantonese transcription methods so I can't comment on their level of completeness or accuracy but AFAIK there is no single accepted method. Plus, there is more colloquial (ie. not found in dictionaries) speech in Cantonese.

I'm totally into it and wish I had more chances to learn a bit. What I know is basically just the bits I picked up in Hung Gar and the fact that now with my Mandarin fluency I can often pick up bits and pieces when listening to Cantonese speakers. But Cantonese-Mandarin is not so much like Italian-Spainish as maybe Italian-French.

I guess if you had the resources I would totally encourage someone to learn Cantonese just on coolness alone. But if you intend to go "all the way" and achieve literacy then the language of the educated is still Mandarin. Yes, I now...poems, music and stuff sound better in Cantonese. That doesn't change the fact that even in Hong Kong, a University education requires Mandarin.

CFT

03-23-2005, 09:11 AM

omarthefish,

I see where you're coming from. Each of the Cantonese romanization schemes are a formalized system, but is not the "Universal Standard" that Mandarin pinyin is, in terms of organisational backing nor popular penetration.

dingyuan

03-23-2005, 05:52 PM

If your style is a northern style like Baji Quan, Fanzi Quan, Mizong Quan or Xingyi Quan etc, I would suggest to learn mandarin however if your style is southern like Hung Gar, Wing Chun or Choy Lay Fut, you'll find Cantonese much more useful than Mandarin.

Ok you might want to learn some Shanghainese if you wish to learn "Bao Ding Kuai Jiao" (Shuai Jiao).

omarthefish

03-24-2005, 01:34 AM

SHANHAINESE !?!? And you thought Cantonese was hard....

Shanghanese is famous throughout China as the most strange and indecipherable dialect of all. Besides, they speak Mandarin just fine in Shanghai.

dingyuan

03-24-2005, 02:21 AM

lkfmdc

03-24-2005, 07:57 AM

Happeh

03-24-2005, 11:55 PM

Which one should I learn for kung fu?

What kung fu?

Northern styles. They speak Mandarin in the North.

Southern styles. They speak Cantonese in the South.

Depends on where you are too. Most immigrants to the USA who are older came from the Cantonese area of China. Most of the people where I live speak Cantonese. So it would be better for me to speak Cantonese to fit in with the people around here.

They taught Cantonese mostly in the local college with only a few Mandarin classes because the local population was mostly Cantonese speakers. The children of the immigrants would come to class to learn to speak better to the grandparents or the relatives when they went back to China. Or for an easy A. ;)

omarthefish

03-26-2005, 04:37 PM

No....they don't speak Cantonese "in the south"..while technically correct if you want to nit pick, it is about as correct as saying they speak Italian in southern Europe.

Cantonese is the langauge of . . . .Canton aka Guangzhou. It is also widely spoken in Hong Kong, a small island of the coast of Guangzhou.

In other southern areas like Fujian, they speak Fujianese. In Shanghai, Shanghainese. In Sichuan (also "in the south") they speak Sichuanese. In Yunan, Yunan...er...ese? Basically everything south of the Yellow river is "in the south" and off all those provinces there is only one where they speak Cantonese and one tiny little special governmental district.

Which is all not to say that Cantonese won't be more usefull for learning a southern style but the reasons are historical and not to do with the fallacy that "Cantonese is spoken in the south".

dingyuan

03-27-2005, 03:43 AM

Most of the southern style originated from Canton/Guangdong, so it is better for you to learn Cantonese if you wish to learn Southern style.

Wood Dragon

03-28-2005, 08:27 PM

Anyone know a good/decent introductory Mandarin text, for those of us who wish to get a grasp on the basics of Mandarin grammar and vocabulary?

Fu-Pow

04-11-2005, 03:48 PM

Nice Link:

http://www.chinawestexchange.com/Cantonese/difficulty.htm

BruceSteveRoy

06-26-2007, 01:06 PM

is anyone able to tell me how to say this in mandarin?

Kyuhn wai jow, gwan wai si, sun dao wai fu mo.

(Fist is seed, staff (pole) is teacher,
sun and moon blades are mother and father.)

this is what i think it is so far but need help with the rest (and these might also be wrong)

kyuhn=quan
gwan=gan
fumo=fumu
and i think dao is the same in both.
i am also guessing that wai is the verb "to be" so that would be "shi"

mantis108

06-26-2007, 01:23 PM

BruceSteveRoy

06-26-2007, 01:38 PM

thanks! my chinese is absolutely awful

SPJ

06-27-2007, 06:25 PM

Gwan Wai Si.

Si may be Shi or teacher.

:)

GeneChing

01-31-2018, 10:08 AM

Cantonese is definitely declining. :o

Students protest in Hong Kong over compulsory Mandarin (https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/students-protest-in-hong-kong-over-compulsory-mandarin-9899776)

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/image/9899774/16x9/670/377/d0aa46a934380dd5d0d4aea71a42d6d7/dR/there-are-growing-concerns-in-hong-kong-that-academic-freedoms-are-being-squeezed-by-beijing-1516958650412-2.jpg
There are growing concerns in Hong Kong that academic freedoms are being squeezed by Beijing. (Photo: AFP/Philip Fong)
26 Jan 2018 05:34PM

HONG KONG: Hundreds of Hong Kong students protested Friday (Jan 26) as tensions escalate on campuses over compulsory testing of Mandarin - the dominant language of mainland China.

The first language of Hong Kong is Cantonese and proposals from education chiefs to put more emphasis on learning Mandarin have tapped into fears about the "mainlandisation" of the semi-autonomous city's culture and identity.

Anger has mounted since two students from Baptist University were suspended this week for confronting and swearing at staff over the requirement to pass an exam in Mandarin before being able to graduate.

Their suspension comes as concern grows that academic freedoms are being squeezed by Beijing, and that freedom of speech as a whole is under threat.

Protesters from a range of universities gathered Friday afternoon in a public square at Baptist to support suspended pair Andrew Chan and Lau Tsz-kei, chanting: "Shame on student suppression!"

"Never mind if we have been suspended, but what if it happens to you all?" an emotional Chan told the crowd, wiping away tears.

Lau, who is president of the Baptist student union, admitted they need to reflect on their actions towards staff but said he was "very disappointed" in the university chief's decision to suspend them.

"I never thought he would do this," Lau said.

Lau and Chan were among 30 students who confronted staff in an eight-hour stand-off at the university's language centre last Friday after it was revealed that 70 per cent of those who had taken a Mandarin proficiency test had failed.

The test was introduced last year for students seeking exemption from a compulsory course in the language.

Students have highlighted the complexity of the proficiency test questions, and say the marking system was not transparent.

Supporters of compulsory testing say Mandarin skills boost students' career prospects, but many feel they should have the right to choose their own subjects.

Hong Kong enjoys freedoms unseen on the mainland since being handed back to China by Britain in 1997, under a "one country, two systems" deal.

But there are rising concerns that those liberties are under threat.

Universities have increasingly become battlegrounds after the mass Umbrella Movement protests of 2014 demanding democratic reforms.

The rallies, which failed to win concessions, were spearheaded by university student leaders and were an unprecedented rebuke to Beijing.

Since then, appointments of pro-establishment figures to senior university positions have riled students and some staff.

There has also been anger over university officials' opposition to the expression of pro-independence views on campuses.

University chiefs penned a joint statement in September saying freedom of expression was "not absolute" after pro-independence banners popped up at the beginning of term.

The emergence of activists calling for Hong Kong to split from the mainland has infuriated Beijing, with President Xi Jinping saying he will not tolerate challenges to Chinese sovereignty.

Source: AFP/zl

Orion Paximus

01-31-2018, 02:28 PM

Back in the day, all the Kung Fu coming to the states and movies out of "hong kong" cinema was Cantonese. So much so that in the late 80s/early 90s if your plan was to train on the west coast or in canada, it was the preferred dialect to learn. Now it's all but useless in our particular (peculiar?) circles.

Jimbo

01-31-2018, 03:34 PM

The last time I was in Hong Kong was 1990, when it was still under British control, so lots has changed since then. Even though I'm not a Cantonese speaker, IMO it would be sad if HK becomes like just every other mainland China city. IMO, they should allow HK to maintain its own unique character, but I don't think China will accept that.

Before I went to live overseas, I watched a ton of subtitled KF movies in Asian theaters here in the States. Most of the Shaw Brothers period films and earlier Golden Harvest films were dubbed in Mandarin. And all of the Taiwan films were as well. The only KF films I remember consistently in Cantonese were independent productions from HK.