Testing/refining - a venue?

[scotty1]

Hi

I was thinking about John Wang's post on another forum that talked about not being isolationist in regard to your art, and being a 'copy machine'.

With this in mind, I wondered about the following:

1. Could a taiji player benefit from attending a good MMA class alongside and in addition to his regular daily taiji training? By benefit I mean:

- learn some techniques which are not in taiji, esp. with regard to groundfighting. Not really to incorporate into the taiji (although, if they could be applied without violating any principles, why not?) but also to gain awareness of some other techniques out there, and therefore ways of being attacked that don't really come up in your regular class.

- gaining experience of different fighters. Fit, strong fighters who are skilled in every range.

- having a bit of fun, a bit of a change, training in a more competitive, sport-based atmosphere, and maybe doing some things which test your skills that you don't normally get to do eg. different focus pad drills.

During sparring the taiji man would try and apply the softness and other skills he had learnt from his taiji training. Except now he would be under pressure from a different type of opponent than his usual.

Do you think the person's taiji would suffer?

Taiji being a principle based art, could those principles be mainfested in that type of training? As I understand it, taiji's teaching your body to move and react a certain way. If two of the main 'skills' in taiji are ting jing and whole body movement those could quite easily be manifested and TESTED couldn't they?

Also, do you think it would make a difference how much experience the taiji man has when he starts attending the MMA class?

So, to sum up - taiji guy attending a MMA class for a bit of fun, a work out, a different perspective on fighting in general and taiji in particular, and some experience trying to make his taiji work under extremely non-cooperative conditons.

"extremely non-cooperative conditons" I am aware that of course this should be happening in the taiji class anyway. But if the only people you're sparring are other taiji guys, then surely there would be benefit in sparring with a MMA?

Well, what do you think? As you know I'm a beginner, and just after opinions and information.

Scott

[backbreaker]

I think you brought up excellent ideas. I have expierience with this topic. I went from doing Yang taiji, to doing MMA, to doing Chen style. I would say that MMA truly improved my Yang style because in an MMA class you will be forced to work hard.The "internal and external" that is so often talked about are not seperate or contradictory. If you mostly do soft slow form without any other hard practices(fajin,weapons) you will not develop true power in the long run. I found if I did a couple hours of taiji standing pole , taiji neigong, and taiji forms practice , and then did a hard MMA class , I would gain way more rooting and power than if I had either done just Taiji or just MMA. I have found hard training will increase your progress very quickly compared to lighter training

[Tak]

I have found hard training will increase your progress very quickly compared to lighter training Now I know why I come to this forum. Ancient training secrets.

[scotty1]

This issue has been resolved on emptyflower -

http://www.emptyflower.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=Xing;action=display;num=1069243047

Thank you for your time and replies.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

More than the style or the instructor.. it seem that it is the student's intentions that set the course.. i have seen students with no prior experience excell at the martial aspect of Taiji.. i have seen students with solid MA histories struggle greatly with Taiji concepts and Taiji fighters.. The serious student will persevere and find the best available teacher, they will travel to find quality instruction.. their deeds are evidence of their intentions..

If someone intends to benefit from the Martial aspect of Taiji they will test their knowledge at almost any opportunity.. and that is appropriate.. but, the challenge is to preserve the principles of Taiji in the face of uncooperative oponents.. here is where the true Taiji student is evident.. they will accept loss as a tool for learning how to apply the principles.. one only "wins" when they achieve their goals.. Taiji is a profound Art that the student must invest a lifetime to get the full benefits, to suspect that it is lacking and you need to supplement your training elsewhere will seperate the student from the full benefits available.. not that it wont help, just that its finer qualities will be lost to the student's lack of faith.. That faith is evident when the student tests his knowledge against other oponents and, regardless of loss, returns to Taiji and renews the pursuit of excellence..

Be well..