MQ: Why the Basics aren´t so basic

[German Bai Lung]

Last Night I read the article from Sifu John Chang and was delighted about some very true conclusions!
i.e.: "Many advanced students reach a point in their training when they grow bored with basic punches, kicks etc and go in search of more techniques, more forms, even more styles....
this quest for "more" can conceal the path to "better"!

Yeah that is so true! If I look around than I can see exact that thing happens all the time to most advanced students of Kung Fu.

So my point of getting in discussion is: is that circumstance a problem of the teacher? Did he something wrong (missed something?) not to eliminate these behavior at time?
Or is it just mens nature and every individual must get this enlightment by himself?

What do you think?

PS: I hope it was okay to quote that text from the new MQ. If not I will editing it imediatly!

[mantis108]

Hi GBL,

<<<So my point of getting in discussion is: is that circumstance a problem of the teacher?>>>

I think Largely, it is the teacher's problem. A lot of teachers just insist on students working on basic but never really explain why and how they are important. Some don't even care if their students get it or not. You know why? because nowadays Mantis teacher are running "programs" just to get their students in and out of the door in a hurry [re: cash flow]. In certain cases, Mantis is a bunch of forms on the shelves for students to pick and choose (for the right price of course ;) ). Few have paid attention to the classical thoughts on mantis training anymore. I believe it would help if the teacher points out where and how the basics are relevant through out the training.

<<<Did he something wrong (missed something?) not to eliminate these behavior at time?>>>

I would think yes again. More and more the teacher student relationship is modelled after the western education system. You go to school and you leave the school. The relationship begins and ends there. It is not easy to do with a lot of the modern society rationale. The day of the Kung Fu family is pretty much washed up.

<<<Or is it just mens nature and every individual must get this enlightment by himself?>>>

I think the teacher can only show the door way (even add a little nudge) but that's all. The really step has to be taken by the student. Basics in a system is the reference point if that point is not right on the spot. You can expect things to go off course.

Warm regards

Mantis108

[MantisifuFW]

GBL,

I also enjoyed the article. Sifu Chang offers a seasoned perspective on learning and teaching the art.

I believe that the search for "more" comes about from many corners.

First, there are, as 108 said, schools who prize and measure a person's status by how many sets he knows. This often sets up the pattern that sends the student ever looking for more instead of depth.

Second, there is insufficient teaching of actual Tanglang fighting; that is how to put the different elements of Tanglang together and apply them. Without a clear picture, students are apt to look elsewhere for techniques from other arts (that are clearly presented) to supplement what they don't understand in their own art.

Third, there is not sufficient teaching of theory. When this happens there must be something to fill the void. Some move to the theories of JKD or Wing Chun or Taiji and eventually to the actual movements of these arts.

Finally, as 108 said, there is the individual and their journey. As stated above, the student should be shown the art. The realization and appreciation of what they are being shown is up to the student. (lead a horse to water...)

Hope it helps,

Steve Cottrell

[Tak]

I think Largely, it is the teacher's problem. A lot of teachers just insist on students working on basic but never really explain why and how they are important. Some don't even care if their students get it or not.

...

I think the teacher can only show the door way (even add a little nudge) but that's all. The really step has to be taken by the student. Aren't these two statements contradictory?

[TRAVIS WHITMAN]

-quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Largely, it is the teacher's problem. A lot of teachers just insist on students working on basic but never really explain why and how they are important. Some don't even care if their students get it or not.

...

I think the teacher can only show the door way (even add a little nudge) but that's all. The really step has to be taken by the student.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aren't these two statements contradictory
----------------------------------------------

Not necessarily, part of the teachers job is to make sure that the student is ready to be a student. A major problem in the martial arts today is showing techniques that are soon dismissed. I have seen students be shown pai an, practice it 30 minutes and then dismiss it with the comment 'Yeah I know it, its just for close range fighting'??!!
A good teacher will spend time on the basics, but will also show many different contexts for those basics.

Mantissifu quote:
'Second, there is insufficient teaching of actual Tanglang fighting; that is how to put the different elements of Tanglang together and apply them. Without a clear picture, students are apt to look elsewhere for techniques from other arts (that are clearly presented) to supplement what they don't understand in their own art.'

I think you hit the nail on the head, when people say their art doesn't have a particular LEGITATMENT technique then they need to either 1) add it or 2) (and more probably)learn more of their system and find it because someone thought of it and it's there somewhere. Clarity of presentation is helpful.

mantis108 quote:
'The day of the Kung Fu family is pretty much washed up.'

Not necessarily, it is definately on the wane, but a few of us will pass the torch to the next generation, can't say what will happen then.

ps; Mr. Cottrell & Yu Shan - I sent e-mails.

[SevenStar]

I can teach a person to fish, but can't make him have the patience to wait around until the fish start to bite...

[German Bai Lung]

Originally posted by SevenStar
I can teach a person to fish, but can't make him have the patience to wait around until the fish start to bite...

No, not exact: If you teach someone to fish, you maybe told him that the goal is to get a fish. Next you teach him: okay, the fish will only bite if you be calm and patience!
And now he "will" understand or he "will not" understand that patience is most necessary to be a succesful fisher!

same as in Kung Fu.

[SevenStar]

That's exactly my point... how successful he is will ultimately be up to him. It is the same with kung fu. I can't MAKE him be patient. I can tell him that patience is a virtue and that his training will benefit greatly from it, but that decision is his to make.