View Full Version : How important is a heavy blow?

04-23-2000, 04:55 AM
What I mean is, personally speaking, on the street if I was facing multiple attackers I would prefer to stay standing rather than take one of them down to grapple. This gets me thinking, if I can take someone down in 1 or 2 blows, then i'm going to stand a better chance of getting away or intimidating the rest of the group (or just taking care of the whole group).

So I was wondering if any of you would think it would be a good idea to buy a heavy bag to practise punching and elbow techniques, to get them strong and fast.

Obviously it's a good idea to have a good punch anyway, but I myself do a lot of joint work and like being on the ground even though I do do kung fu.

My personal technique in a street situation, is going for the legs with heavy round house kicks until he weakens then I dive into him, grabbing both legs under the knees and yanking them back so that he falls on his back. This winds the guy and in my situation smashes his head on the floor as well, then I just stomped on his ribs once and heard an almighty crack! It sent a chill down my spine, and thankfully he didn't get up, so I ran off, the coward that I am(give me a break i'm only 18)
I went home and felt really ill and all weak in the knees.
That has been my only fight on the street, but I reckon if I can end the fight sooner, the better. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Nothing is to be feared, only understood...

Loki's Avatar
04-23-2000, 07:39 AM
My personal view is that when you are in a serious streetfight you should do whatever it takes to get the person down as fast as you can. The best way to do this however is not always a hard punch. The best are broken knees or eye gouges for the fastest possible ways to easily hurt somebody.

Also id recomend avoiding the ground in a streetfight because of the ever present threat of his buddies showing up.

04-23-2000, 05:51 PM
A heavy bag is an excellent idea. You can not only practice your hand and elbow techniqes (this includes chops and finger strikes), you can also practice your foot and knee techniques.

I come from a style and a teacher who believes in "one strike"--you may only get a chance for one strike--make it count.

04-23-2000, 07:48 PM
There's nothing like a heavy back hand.
Watch what Maurice Smith did against grappler after grappler with that hard right for his UFC victories.
Joint locks are great, and leg shots are a highly effective meathod for halting your opponent agression. But for the raw, one hit fight ender, nothing beats that rock hard back hand slamming into their brain. Take that from a guy that's had 2 broken jaws, a broken ocipital bone, broken nose, and 11 (count em') 11 concusions. (It's not that I suck, is just that, well ok I suck. But trust me anyway.)
Go get that heavy bag (at LEAST 80lbs.) and hit it, kick it, knee and elbow it as hard as you possibly can.

If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV

04-23-2000, 07:57 PM
Hi Robin,

so, with this 'one strike' belief, what would your tendency be for a 'one strike'? I think your answer will be interesting because you study both kung fu and taewondo.

I concur, a bag is necessary training for anyone of any style. There is just so much you will get from striking air. Get a bag, floor or otherwise, and practise form...then practise power..speed, then put them all together and do the hookie-pokie...shake it all about.

When you are practising kicks on the bag, be aware of how you are generating the power of the kick, as each kick has a different mechanism of movement and power generation. Make sure you're not simply throwing your leg all the time, and do not lean forward too much to enahnce 'power'.

04-23-2000, 09:05 PM
Red, all martial arts blows are meant to be hard. Thats how you take someone out of the fight. I've found that the best fight ender is the broken nose, which can be safely(for you)and effectively executed with no more than a boxing jab or a hook. Stay away from spontaneous eyegouges though they are most effective when the opponent is mobily hindered(like when hes trying to get a choke on you.) If you dont believe me then have a friend hold a quarter and try to stike it with your finger when they're constantly moving it.
I wouldn't try taking them to the ground as a primary defense tactic. It works in the UFC but the UFC is not real fighting. Trust me if the goal in the UFC were to inflict as much immediate damage to your opponent as possible, and as quickly as possible with the final goal of jumping outside of the octagon for personal safety(disabling your adversary then getting the hell out of there), then the UFC fights would be structured differently.As I have said before, how many bar fights would you expect to encounter where both combatants fumbled around in the gaurd for half an hour?

04-23-2000, 09:35 PM
You're right, nospam, the philosophy is a bit different in Kung Fu from Taekwondo.

First, taekwondo, as that is the least complicated. TKD fashions itself after the tiger, which in nature puts all of itself into each strike it makes, to end the conflict quickly. Once the threat is gone, the tiger walks away--he doesn't stick around to show off any pride, he just leaves. That's the TKD philosophy, put your all into that one strike to make other strikes unnecessary. If other strikes are necessary, put your all into those as well, to end the conflict quickly. Now, of course there are short comings to this as there are to all strategies. But, one strike is about all you have a chance to make. Then, get out of there. Same thing in competition, you want to knock your opponent out of the match in one strike--though this rarely happens.

Kung Fu, same thing to walk away when the threat is gone (or run if the case may be), and certainly you should put your all into your strike, but blocks and strikes seems to mold into one, so it seems like you're making more techniques. But, the idea is the same, get the fight over with fast and leave.

Now, I know I'm going to get a lot of flack from the guys who claim to have been in umteen street fights. I will admit, I haven't been in one "street fight", but I have gotten out of jerk's grasp quickly, and I did avoid another confrontation that appeared to me to be filled with potential harm to me (the guy was over 6 feet and it was a dark parking lot). So, my philosophy works very well for me. One strike, you're out.

04-24-2000, 01:35 AM
At first I thought this thread was about foreplay. Imagine my disappointment.

Nothing wrong with having a good heavy punch, but if we really claim to be martial artists, then it would seem to me that developing a good heavy punch would almost be a step backwards in our martial art development.

Musashi is said to have been a big guy with lots of natural brute strength, which he was able to use to his advantage. Yet, even he understood the big difference between raw talent, and the refined skills of a master.

There are many ways to bring down an opponent with "one shot, one kill." We all know of various pressure points, nerve clusters, etc...Some of our arts include various types of fists (ie. phoenix eye, leopard fist,etc..)

I am all for quick and simple, but it doesn't require having to develop a powerful punch. After all isn't that what learning martial arts is about (for some of us atleast), being able to render your opponent(s) helpless with minimal effort?

Good martial artists, regardless of their background, are tacticians. We are not brawlers, though our bouts may result in such a melee, the goal is to avoid this.

Maybe I'm alone in this thought, but I'm sure I'm not.

Really, why crack your fist against someone's head, when a knuckle to the throat works just as well, if not better. Heavy strikes use up more energy than lighter, precise ones.


From One Thing, Know Ten Thousand.

04-24-2000, 02:25 AM
..thanks for the response. As always, very insightful and informative.

..although I agree with what you said, I have a slightly different stroke..a good hard, solid (powerful) strike to the throat.

The concept of a one powerful punch is nice, but not overly realistic, unless you apply that principle to each and every strike. Thus, in essence, with any contact (for any amount of times) you accomplish a solid and powerful one strike technique.

If you want to end a fight quick, the head is not such a good target as it is the most well protected spot on the body. For most of us, you'd prolly break a bone or two on your hand anywho. The head is a small target and can be highly mobile in relation to the body. This has been debated for a long time...head or body, first?

In all of my encounters, it has been body shots that have dropped every last one. You can use the head (fakes) to create openings to the body..and visa versa.

05-04-2000, 03:14 AM
As a general rule: Hard weapons for soft targets and soft weapons for hard targets.
Slap the head and punch the nose etc.

Additionally if we as martial artists don't continually see a rise in punching power I would think we are doing something wrong /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Someone posted that gaining punching power is a step in the wrong direction, which I disagree with. Increasing muscle tension and muscle work and load is a step in the wrong direction for sure however.
Martial artists should strive for more power from less work through relaxing of the body and letting other factors do the work besides muscle strength. Actually muscle strength is the enemy /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif When a martial artist gets off a really good strike it should feel effortless and like he hardly did anything while the target or person should feel like he took tremdous energy and shock from the effortless, seemingly nothing transfer of energy.
The king of the battlefeild in war is one well aimed bullet.
The king of the battlefeild in unarmed combat is one well aimed strike.
"Question Everything"

05-05-2000, 03:59 PM
I have had great success with palm-heel strikes, I also believe in a strong punch----mainly because Ineed one! If you're small like me, it never hurts to strengthen yourself.(or even if you're not small).



06-15-2000, 02:46 AM
I think that the one shot kill
is a good idea. But hitting
in the throat can kill someone
quick. The only way i would hit
someone in the throat is if
they had some kind of weapon
or I had my family with me.
Otherwise I would take the knee
caps out..Plus being surrounded
so that would be another reason..
I think you can disable a person
without having to take his life..
A martial artist should know
how to control the situation
without causing fatality..