OT- Boxing is nasty...

[ZhouJiaQuan]

http://members.cox.net/gamba/RoyJones-Kelly.mpg

:eek: :D
lucky he wasnt fighting a kung fu guy, hahahaha :cool: (by the way that is sarcasm of course but trying to not get earased) he would have knocked anyone from any style out... thats just sick.

[CaptinPickAxe]

Roy Jones Jr is the man. Light wieght to Heavywieght Champ is very commindable.

[Chang Style Novice]

Holy cr@p! That was just ridiculous.

[Archangel]

I remember watching that fight live; all of us in the room just sat there and shook our heads. None of us could believe that Roy Jones Jr. just knocked a guy out with both hands behind his back. Un f u c k i n believable.

[PHILBERT]

Archangel, yeah that was what I thought too when me and my brothers watched it. Best find ender ever. If that had not been the finishing punch, it would not have been as cool.

[SevenStar]

RJJ is a bad man.

[UK MONK]

That was crap the guy was tired and when he hit him he lost his footing. There was no force behind it and if he did fight a kung fu guy i would put my money on the kung fu guy because boxers dont know how to defend against the feet.

[Cranestyle]

mr uk monk you are either being sarcastic or smoking good shi t these days.
that clip is amazing, a light heavyweight with the speed to do that is a scary thought. it doesnt matter if you do boxing kung fu karate or kickboxing. if someone has the speed to do that you are not winning that fight

[l@zylee]

indeed UKMONK is was neigh that impressive, I agree:rolleyes:

[kwaichang kaned]

boxer don't know how to defend against feet

Here we go again!!:rolleyes:

[UK MONK]

it wasnt that impressive and there was no speed. The guy was tired that is it that boxer was SH*T full stop.

P.S
i have sparred against boxers and when you kick them in the face they dont know what hit them derrrr it was my foot dum @ss

[MasterKiller]

How can you diss on RJJ? He fought Seraph to a draw.

[UK MONK]

i hate all boxers because they have a ****y atitude and they think there style is better that yours. But when you sparr them and kick them in the head and beat them they are all "that wouldnt work in a real fight" yeah but i just knock you out d**k head.:rolleyes:

[Suntzu]

2.5

[Chang Style Novice]

Well, in UK MONK's very slight defence, obviously Roy DID have the fight in the bag and was playing his opponent like a game of solitaire, or he would never have tried such a crazy grandstand move.

[kwaichang kaned]

UKMONK meet Europeanboxer


GAME ON!!!!!!!

[fa_jing]

That wasn't REAL boxing because REAL boxers do not put their hands behind their back. Show me the boxing form that has both hands behind the back....hah, didn't think so. C'mon doesn't anyone have a clip of REAL boxing? Is it true that REAL boxing can't be used against a resisting opponent?

[PHILBERT]

Originally posted by fa_jing
That wasn't REAL boxing because REAL boxers do not put their hands behind their back. Show me the boxing form that has both hands behind the back....hah, didn't think so. C'mon doesn't anyone have a clip of REAL boxing? Is it true that REAL boxing can't be used against a resisting opponent?

:D

Show me the form where you bite your opponent's ear off.

[Meat Shake]

"either being sarcastic or smoking good shi t these days. "

Dude, whats witht the association of people being retarded when they smoke good ****? It will get you a little off the rocker, unless you are a complete novice, in which case you will get a bit stupid... But c'mon, I smoke really good sh!t all the time , and regardless that the good majority of my posts are completely irrelevant, I do make my good points here and there... :D

And that man is a bad mofo. The clip is still quick as hell in slow mo.

[ZhouJiaQuan]

it is your potsmoking that makes you question the weed and stupidty relation, if you didnt smoke, you'd clearly see it :p

(30 Helens agree potheads are stupid)



didnt RJJ try to rap too?

peace

[norther practitioner]

One of the cleaner connecting hits I've seen in a while.:D

That guy must'a felt like an arse...

[backbreaker]

Originally posted by Meat Shake
"either being sarcastic or smoking good shi t these days. "

Dude, whats witht the association of people being retarded when they smoke good ****? It will get you a little off the rocker, unless you are a complete novice, in which case you will get a bit stupid... But c'mon, I smoke really good sh!t all the time , and regardless that the good majority of my posts are completely irrelevant, I do make my good points here and there... Correct, these people are ignorant brainwashed american novices.:D

[norther practitioner]

:rolleyes:

[backbreaker]

Originally posted by ZhouJiaQuan
http://members.cox.net/gamba/RoyJones-Kelly.mpg

:eek: :D
lucky he wasnt fighting a kung fu guy, hahahaha :cool: (by the way that is sarcasm of course but trying to not get earased) he would have knocked anyone from any style out... thats just sick. A bit of an extreme statement, I disagree. Roy jones' last fight was totally boring and sucked. IMHO some MMA fighters as well as TMA's would destroy him. He only punches, waits alot, and goes 12 rounds of boredom often. I saw that whole fight where he puts his hands behind his back and that fight was impressive, but I don't think that opponent was as good as any style fighter anywhere. I am skeptical of the guy's power and he just didn't bring his hand back to his face. Why can't you block or redirect or stick to the guys arm in boxing?(Like perhaps a slap type block on the wrist or forearm as he punches) Has Roy Jones knocked someone out to where they were sensless and twitching in a coma or similar?Tito ortiz messed up evan tanner just by throwing him down head first. Face first throwdown is a cool move.(especially in a ring)

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by backbreaker
A bit of an extreme statement, I disagree. Roy jones' last fight was totally boring and sucked. IMHO some MMA fighters as well as TMA's would destroy him.

Nobody in MMA could stand up with Jones right now, with the possible exception of Cro Cop, and that's only a maybe. There are some that could take him down, after which he would likely be easy prey, but even that isn't an easy proposition, given his absurd reaction time and foot speed.


Why can't you block or redirect or stick to the guys arm in boxing?(Like perhaps a slap type block on the wrist or forearm as he punches)

I encourage you to visit your local boxing gym and try it.



Has Roy Jones knocked someone out to where they were sensless and twitching in a coma or similar?

He has done so on several occasions, and broken Virgil Hill's rib with a body shot.

[backbreaker]

Okay, point made father dog. Body shots are awesome and I think an elbow to the sternum or chest would be awesome. I know Roy Jones looks easy to hit but no one can do it so you can't tell by watching. I have done slap block as a counter to a couner right hand in thai pad training with VERY good thai trainers. I have also been hit from not bringing my hand back quick enough after a right hand. The slap block I am finding more and more effective as long as you're not trying to actually slap or hit the arm. I still think if someone kicked Roy jones in the head he'd drop and not know what happened. I've been told that all that bobbing , weaving, and basically putting your head out there unprotected is not good.(unless you're Roy Jones) I beleive there are many aspects and many positions in mma. Many things can happen on the ground and standing up. Most mma fights nowadays usually are fought in the clinch with knees and elbows then going to the ground. My impression is that Roy Jones would easily be taken down and humiliated . I beleive his hits will do damage and hurt the opponent but I feel MMA fighters can control the fight better. I could be totally wrong as I'm just watching on TV but my gut instinct is that he is overated as well as boxing in general

[CD Lee]

The main reason you can't stick well to boxers that are good, is mainly that everyone forgets their footwork. Their footwork is really amazing at the higher levels. Everyone focuses on thier punches, but don't 'see' what is going on at the floor.

If you ever get a chance to watch Buster Douglas beat the holy crap out of Mike Tyson from 1991 in Japan, take your time an watch carefully how Douglas worked his magic. Tyson would dip and bob, wind-up...and the instant he move forward, Douglas stepped back one step (out of range), Tyson's weight would come down, and Douglas would step back in with a stiff jab in his face, and a followup right. He did this over and over and over, until Tyson's face was swelled like a sponge.

Some say Douglas got lucky, but most non-die-hard-fans can ever seem to articulate how Douglas beat Mike.

Try to stick to a Pernell Whittaker. He who thinks he can stick to these world class boxers...have you carefully looked at how they move those feet? You think they like getting hit in the face? Do you think their heads don't move the instant you move a fist towards their faces? They do. The good ones anyways.

[backbreaker]

Thanks for the explanation because I think footwork is very important especially for the distance to your opponent. The way I move is I push off my back leg to go forward, push off front leg to go back, front leg pushes off to go right , push off back leg to go left. I also train circular footwork. I seem to see sometimes people look like they're running, or chasing after someone and get caught stepping in. This also seems to result in a clinch if someone defends by sheilding their head or if someone isn't dropped by a body shot.

[CaptinPickAxe]

there was no speed

WTF!?!?!? I played that **** in slow-motion and it was still too quick. There's a gap in the punch during slow-mo, so 'no speed' is out of the question. Especially since the punches orgin was behind his back.

0.0

A K.O. from a body shot is much more commindable than how knocked out a guy is.
Its ludicris to say that this man cannot fight. Considering he could hand us our asses easily on a bad day.

[CD Lee]

Don't worry Captin, I have it on tape, and it is plenty fast. But in reality, it was not a real hard shot, and the guy was looking for a place on the canvas to land. Any champion caliber fighter would have got up and fought.

When guys are losing fights and their spirits are broken, almost any shot or cut can take them out. For example, Barerra last week when he was getting the crap beat out of him. With a small cut on the side of his left eye, he was arguing that it was bad, and he did not want to fight anymore. The ref made him practically fight. The cut stopped bleeding after he started fighting again and was getting hit in the face! Barely a cut, and we all know Barerra is an incredibly tough guy. He was ready to lose by then. Thankfully, his corner had seen enough and jumped in to stop it in the 11th.

Roy Jones fast? In reality, he is ridiculously fast.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by backbreaker
I still think if someone kicked Roy jones in the head he'd drop and not know what happened.

That would largely depend on who it was. I doubt that a head kick would be any easier to land on Jones than a head punch.



I've been told that all that bobbing , weaving, and basically putting your head out there unprotected is not good.(unless you're Roy Jones)

Bobbing too low, as is often done in boxing, opens you up to knees in a more open environment. Bobbing and weaving in general is still a valuable skill in MMA, and to suggest that it "put[s] your head out there unprotected" demonstrates that you know very little about bobbing and weaving.



I beleive there are many aspects and many positions in mma.

Duh.


Many things can happen on the ground and standing up.

Duh.



Most mma fights nowadays usually are fought in the clinch with knees and elbows then going to the ground.

Actually, few people in MMA throw effective elbows from the clinch. A few more throw effective knees. Most of the time, when the clinch is secured, it either gets broken and they go back to standup, or it goes quickly to the ground.



My impression is that Roy Jones would easily be taken down and humiliated .


Given Jones' superior speed, his excellent footwork, and his proven ability to avoid the clinch when he does not wish to go there, I would suggest that your impression is incorrect. It is certainly possible that he would be taken down, particularly by the higher level wrestlers such as Couture, Lindland, Henderson, Coleman, or Randleman, but it would certainly not be 'easy'.


I could be totally wrong

And in fact, you are.

[Archangel]

LOL, this kinda reminds me of when I watched the Hopkins-Trinidad fight with a friend of mine who studied Shotokan Karate. All the guy could comment on was how Hopkins and Tito had no skill and would easily be defeated by a blackbelt.

The fact of the matter is this, boxers get payed millions of dollars to fight; you would think that would be more than enough insentive to use the most efficient and effective way of punching.

A top levels boxers timing, speed and power are unmatched. I would be bold enough to say that Roy Jones Jr. or any of the top 10 heavyweights in boxing would cruise through the K1 circuit. Punching has always been the most effective and easiest way to knock somebody out. Just look at the stats in MMA or K1, I'm willing to bet that 80% of the knockouts have come through a punch.

Roy Jones in MMA would be interesting, if he could work with some grapplers and learn some basic takedown defence and groundwork, I could see a lot of people getting KTFO within a minute.

[backbreaker]

You tell me I'm wrong but then you list all the people who could possibly beat him. Maybe I should take back what I said , because I think Roy jones is a better and harder striker than anyone in UFC last night. You're right, Rot jones could beat alot of UFC guys in one minute, so put him against someone who he doesn't match well with(has that ever happened?). The reason I think he could be kicked in the head is because he wouldn't expect it. I don't wanna sound Like I'm saying a black belt could beat Roy Jones or that he isn't a great fighter, I'm basically saying he wouldn't expect anything but punches so I still think if someone threw out a head high kick it would land right on his face and he wouldn't expect it. Anyone here can be wrong because no one really knows for sure as such a match has never happened. Any top 10 boxer can beat K-1? I'm skeptical because I beleive anyone will take damage in K-1 and it's a tournament so you need to fight several times.K-1 fights NEVER go 12 rounds. I saw a match where Mirko Cro Cop kicked Mark Hunt in the head and he was done. I train at a gym that trains in boxing(with a pro trainer) but they don't use the head movement because it doesn't work against Muay Thai. We have seen that a good grappler can beat any K-1 fighter, but then cross training comes into play. I still also think saying boxers are the most powerful in the world isn't known for sure . I have seen very good Muay thai fighters hit heavy bags and pads and I think chinese internal styles have the most powerful strikes I've seen. And I think avoiding an inside fighting situation is different in boxing than MMA. I've insulted people by saying this before and been told I'm wrong but my opinion of Roy Jones and boxing is that it requires two people willing to fight and a ref who says when to fight and then they fight a specific way at a certain range.If you know something for sure just by watching endless videos, you must be **** good. Boxing seems to become useless in a multi person brawl or 2 on 1 fight. They cant throw someone off them from any clinch position. If Roy Jones gets in a clinch he's going down to the ground cause he can't throw someone off him. How would he get outta a bear hug?He couldn't.Do they do inside wresting in boxing? Can they handle knees? I don't know. I would think the strategy would be to to brawl and bully a pure boxer.I think a pro bower would kill or put in a coma most street fighters because the street fighter would have no defense so he would get dropped in 5 seconds. I know MMA can defeat street fighters 40 or 50 pounds heavier who throws haymakers because I have done it. I have sparred friendly 2 on 1 and done well. No disrespect intended but this is just my gut impression and no one knows for sure.(Yet, unless you truly are a fighting expert.)There just seems to be holes and things missing in boxing which can be exploited. But if a boxer is superior than an MMA fighter in some ways he could exploit that. I think it comes down to exploiting weakness rather than superior overall standing up skill or superior overall wresting skill. Thanks for disagreeing and making think a bit more

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by backbreaker
You tell me I'm wrong but then you list all the people who could possibly beat him.

I am telling you that you are wrong that anyone would beat Roy Jones "easily". There are many people that could beat him in an MMA environment. They are all top competitors, and none of them would do it "easily".


The reason I think he could be kicked in the head is because he wouldn't expect it.

You're an idiot. Jones doesn't slip punches because he "expects" them, he slips them because he sees them coming and moves out of the way. If he sees a kick coming, he'll do the same.


I saw a match where Mirko Cro Cop kicked Mark Hunt in the head and he was done.


No, you didn't. Mark Hunt and Mirko Filipovic have fought once. Mirko scored a knockdown with a high kick in the third round; Hunt immediately got back to his feet and finished the round. Mirko won a decision; Hunt was never knocked out and was certainly not "done". If you're going to offer an opinion, please try to sound like you at least vaguely know what you're talking about.

[cerebus]

As a former amateur boxer (5 years) and full contact karate fighter (3 years) with training in San Shou (off & on for around 3 years) I would like to comment on Roy Jones taking a kick to the head. No, I don't think you (meaning pretty much anyone on this forum) could hit him in the head with a kick, and here is why:
1)He's used to defending against lightning fast combinations of punches coming at his head from other pro boxers. Your foot would have to be faster than a pro boxer's hands and if that's the case then you must be some kind of world champion (or could easily become one).
2)It's been claimed that the kick would hit him because he wouldn't expect it. Can you kick him less telegraphically than his opponents, standing almost nose to nose with him, can punch? His skills are pure instinct, not based on thought. If it's coming at his head in a fight, whether it's your foot or your left butt-cheek I don't give it very good odds of landing anywhere on his head.
3) As for clinching, good luck. You have to get hold of him first, and his footwork & body movement, combined with his punching speed, accuracy & power would tear up most opponents before they could manage that.
These are just general points of course. Do I think Roy Jones can't be beat? Of course I don't think that. But I do think some people are believing he would be beat for the wrong reasons. I believe that a very good K1 fighter probably could beat him in a real fight because they possess good boxing skills as well as some of the best kicking & knee skills around as well as being superb athletes. I don't, however, agree with some of the previous statements as to who could beat him or (especially) WHY they would beat him. For what it's worth (probably not much to most here). Peace.

[backbreaker]

Hey , I'm saying if you don't expect or train something you won't see it.You won't mentally be prepared to react. Try blocking a punch,very difficult. Okay,now that I think about it I only saw clips of that fight. I'm not an idiot because I plan on being a devastating fighter who hurts people in one way or another and I plan on being effective in a ring.I'll never slam Roy Jones down face first in a ring anyways so you don't bother me too much. I think you take what I'm saying too literally. It's just a forum and I'm just a fight fan. It would look easy. People call Randy Coutures last two victories easy. It's just a figure of speech, or how people might view it if it happened

[backbreaker]

Thanks for the corrections, but I've been told by very good stand up trainers that bobbing and weaving will bob right into a head high kick

[cerebus]

(This post was in response to BB's previous post, not the one about "bobbing & weaving" into a kick). Perhaps, but there really are people out there who believe it would be easy to beat a pro boxer just 'cause they can kick or grapple. I've watched boxing matches with black belt friends of mine who would talk about how this punch or that punch had no power. Having "been there & done that" I can attest that those non-powerful looking punches that boxers absorb are often hard enough to drop the average guy. Boxing is deceptive. What you see isn't always what you get, there's usually alot more going on than a non-boxer can tell from just watching the match. Peace.
EDIT: Backbreaker slipped another post in as I was writing. My original post was responding to his previous post.

[cerebus]

Now responding to Backbreaker's last post, just before my last post: Don't know who told ya' that, but if a guy bobs or weaves INTO a blow, it's his own dam n fault & serves him right. He's also not ever going to be a world champion if that's how he does it (will make a very good vegetable early in his life though). T.

[backbreaker]

Basically what I'm saying is I would never want to go toe to toe with Roy Jones unless I was getting paid alot for getting knocked out. With UFC gloves he would probably be a killer but I think alot of good UFC fighters can turn a fight around if they don't get knocked out and if it's an even match.

[Archangel]

I really don't think that K1 fighters would stand a chance against a top 10 heavyweight boxer. After watching Bob Sapp knockout Hoost twice with no boxing skill whatsoever, it's scary to think what Tyson, Klitchko, Tua, Jones or Lewis would do to them.

Do you think that Bob Sapp would win one fight against a top 10 heavyweight? And let's be realistic here, if any of the top K1 guys had what it took to compete in heavyweight boxing they would be there. I'd rather make 10 million a fight than 500 K for a tournament.

[Chang Style Novice]

I'd say that backbreakers point that the wider possible techniques and strategies available to fighters in kickboxing or mma could possibly cause a top boxer to get caught unawaresby a kick or a grappling entry is valid. Most importantly, I think, isn't the fact that you could kick him in the head, but that he is totally unused to defending his legs. Yes, Roy RJJ's footwork is quick and crafty, but his legs are safe from any kind of kicks or grappling entries as long as boxing rules are in effect. Rather than trying to enter a standing clinch with him (which would definitely be very difficult, and probably a recipe for eating a lot of leather) I would expect any pro-level grappler or kickboxer to go low and try to take his base out, which I suspect would be considerably easier. If that could be accomplished, I think it quite likely that the guy could get hosed. But nobody in K1 or MMA is going to beat him with hand strikes or high kicks.

[cerebus]

In response to Archangel's post: No, of course a K-1 fighter couldn't take Jones in boxing. In my own post I mentioned that I felt they could take him in a real fight though. I do agree with CSN that leg kicks would likely be a problem for a boxer. His head is attacked all the time, so he's very good at defending it, but legs are never attacked in boxing leaving most boxers with little idea how to defend them other than using their footwork to stay out of range (which, however, keeps the boxer out of attacking range as well). I think knees would be a problem too (especially when used to attack below the belt).

[backbreaker]

Boxing is totally awesome and so is Roy Jones. Thinking any other style is better would be pure speculation and many mma fighters suck at punching even with small gloves. Head high kick just looks effective if the opponents hands aren't both up even at a fairly long range. The kick you don't see is the one that'll hit you. Making-miss a kick can be effective so actually I think yeah, he could make-miss a kick many times.

[ZhouJiaQuan]

hmm, this actually became an interesting thread.

How about we all agree that if having to fight RJJ it would be best to kick him in the knee and run like hell to the nearest police station, where you would be sfae from any retaliation :D ;)


Someone brought up sapp and hoost, i missed that fight, but did anyone see sapp and bonjanski(sp?). At first i thought bonjanski would have no chance against sapp, with his more high kick, jumping knee style, but it actually worked pretty well. S would tire after about one onslaught twds. B at the start of the round, then it was pretty much B all the way the rest of the round. Until of course sapp decied to get DQ'ed, as i remember Bonjanski slipped and sapp hit him on the while on the ground(obvious intention, that wasnt instinct) and bonjanski was out for a quick second. it seemed like sapp couldn't take much pain too. not sure what my point was, but it was an interesting fight.

peace

[Archangel]

cerebus,

Well in a real fight anything can happen, so it's difficult to really analyse an outcome with so many variables. The only fair venue would be a K1 rules fight since it allows all techniques from both styles.

Leg kicking would be a problem for a boxer, if the K1 fighter could get a few good shots in maybe he could take some of the boxers punching power away. But as i see it, the first or second punching exchange would do it. None of those guys have ever felt that kind of punching power, technique or hand speed before and one shot is all it would take.

[cerebus]

Hello Archangel. Though I do agree that if RJJ can get in some good, clean combos he would likely take the match, I don't agree that the K-! fighters have never felt that kind of power before. I'm sure they've all been on the receiving end of punches as hard as RJJ's at one time or another. However I don't think any of them have had to deal with the speed and timing that RJJ possesses. I do think that if RJJ learned how to defend against leg kicks to a skillful degree, he could be a serious danger to a K-1 fighter (Okay, I think he would be dangerous anyway, but being trained to deal with leg kicks, {and kick/ punch combos} would hinder the K-1 fighters major advantages). Peace.

[Chang Style Novice]

"How about we all agree that if having to fight RJJ it would be best to kick him in the knee and run like hell to the nearest police station, where you would be sfae from any retaliation."

The only way I feel safe fighting RJJ is by idly speculating on the internet about how other, tougher people might possibly be able to handle him.

Although M.O.D.O.K. would totally own his silver medal ass.

[joedoe]

The only way I would face RJJ is from behind the controls of an Abrams tank.

[Archangel]

cerebes,

Well I look at the top K1 guys, Hoost, Lebanner, Aerts etc. and I have noticed that they all have gotten rocked one time or another by mediocre ( boxing standards ) punchers. If Bob Sapp can knock out Hoost twice with little or no K1 training I can't imagine what a Tyson or a Tua could do to him. If Mark Hunt could rock Lebanner with a short hook and send him crashing to the mat, believe me Roy Jones or James Toney would eat him alive.

A good example of what I'm talking about happened in the first World Combat Championship in 1995. James warring an excruiserweight contender fought Jerome Turcan a French Savate Champion. Turcan started the match off firing leg kicks and catching Warring un-prepared; Warring eventually landed a straight right that knocked Turcan out.

[ZhouJiaQuan]

lol @ csn, that does seem like a better option actually. :)

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by UK MONK
it wasnt that impressive and there was no speed. The guy was tired that is it that boxer was SH*T full stop.

P.S
i have sparred against boxers and when you kick them in the face they dont know what hit them derrrr it was my foot dum @ss

How many boxers have you kicked in the face, precisely?

[Meat Shake]

exactly 3 and 3/4.
(The 3/4 was actually a midget in tall shoes)

[fa_jing]

Well if RJJ was going to fight in a MMA event he would be sure to train for it for 6 months or more. So we can pretty safely assume that he would walk in there and clean up, with the possible exception of UFC.