A couple points on martial arts

[Meat Shake]

Just 2 things I was interested in, didnt feel the need to make seperate threads.
First and foremost, what do you feel are your responsibilities as a martial artist? Do you believe that if you see someone getting the crap kicked out of them, you shoud jump in? Do you feel its your responsibility to protect your friends when they mouth of in a situation they shouldn't? What about when you see the gruffy ******* with **** stained pants trying to steal a purse from an old lady?
More or less, when, if ever, do you feel it necessary to be a "martial superman"?

Second point - Some people were bittching previously that others expect to see some improved abilities and dexterity due to the fact that they are a martial artist, and to this I say Bah. If you arent benefitting elsewhere from your training, something is wrong. If better stamina, better coordination, and better balance dont help you elsewhere... Im confused. No, kung fu doesnt make you a better basketball player. Yes, you should be able to jump higher, run faster, and play longer however.

[Tak]

Do you believe that if you see someone getting the crap kicked out of them, you shoud jump in? Assuming that this person doesn't deserve it (in my opinion), I would jump in whether or not I practiced MA.

Do you feel its your responsibility to protect your friends when they mouth of in a situation they shouldn't? Nope, if the dumb *******s want to start something, they're on their own.

What about when you see the gruffy ******* with **** stained pants trying to steal a purse from an old lady?Again, I'd do something regardless of being a MAist.

Second point, I feel should have some improved attributes and a certain level of general physical fitness - otherwise I'm not training hard enough.

[MonkeySlap Too]

What TAK said.

My mouth boxing has been far more useful in defusing stupidity than my CMA. The CMA is just for cleaning up after my first two sets of skills (awareness, and dialougue) have failed.

If someone causes sh!t, then it is thier problem.

If someone is gettng clobbered, I assess the situation before engaging. My willingness to help someone has nothing to do with CMA. It is a moral obligation - tempered by prudence.

[scotty1]

Its everyone's personal responsibilty to learn to look after themselves.

That said I would probably help someone I saw as an innocent party.

[apoweyn]

I think the answer to both questions is "you're not superman."

You're not responsible for wading in where angels fear to tread simply because you train in martial arts. Any feeling that you are so obliged is based on the idea that you're somehow more prepared to handle four guys with tire irons than the average joe. And that line of thinking smacks of overly cinematic fantasies about your own abilities.

Would I step up and confront a guy hastling an old woman? Yes. Many people would, training or no. It's the result of being a conscientious person. Not a trained fighter.

Would I dive into the fray if several armed people were beating on several unarmed people? Obviously, I'd love to say "yes." But that's much harder to say honestly. Honestly, I don't know.

I've known people who did that very thing. And I've known people who declined to do so. Their responses weren't governed by their estimation of how they'd fare in that situation. They were governed by a reaction to the injustice or barbarism of the act. Those responses are hardwired into all of us. (How am I going to respond to what I'm seeing? Do I address it? How? If not, how do I deal with it? Rationalize it? Deny it?)

We're people. And we make choices all the time about what we want to risk, what matters to us, what we can afford to lose, what we can live with, etc.

As tempting as the image is (lone martial artist walks into the midst of several nefarious thugs) it's not reality. Reality is that we're people. Not supermen. We get involved. We don't get involved. But we do so on the basis of who we are. Not whether we've trained knife disarms or no.

As for the question about improved athletic ability, if you stretch as part of your training, you'll be more flexible. If your practice is demanding physically, you'll be stronger, you'll have more wind, you'll be faster. Etc. Again, we're not supermen. We work, we see results. That's all.


Stuart B.

[SevenStar]

Good posts.

[Meat Shake]

Yes, good responses. Just trying to get the ball rolling on some good on topic chat. :)

I dont personally jump in to others business. Id help if someone was getting beaten badly, unless it meant I may get killed.
This is good tho. More responses.

[ShaolinDo]

People keep saying that it isnt their martial arts training that would make them step in to help someone out, but it makes you wonder if that sense of 'morals' is what brought a lot of us into the martial arts world.

I for one would let my friend get his ass handed to him if he were popping off for no good reason. Now if he was standing up for someone or something that deserved to be stood up for, then I would most likely agree with him and hopefully the fight would never get taken to my friend. Unless he was one of the friends I have who could also kick my ass!

I might just have to let the old lady get her ass whipped and purse stolen....I mean do you really want to touch some guy that has **** stains on his clothes? (just kidding....probably shouldnt make jokes like that around folks who dont know me)

[Fu-Pow]

I would assess the situation using Mun (Scholar), Mo (Warrior) and Sun (Sage) mindsets.

First, is the compassionate thing to do to help this person? Is the person clearly deserving of your help? Or did they bring this upon themselves?

Secondly, would it hurt you more not to help (ie your self esteem, integrity) or to help (ie potentially be hurt or killed, hurt/ kill other people.)?

Thirdly, what is the most strategic way to go about dealing with the situation. Is there an outcome that is most favorable for everyone or must there be a winner and loser?

You would have to ask yourself these questions and answer them instantaneously.

[fragbot]

And one of my neighbors (codename: M) had the following story:

a coupla kids (she thought brother and sister) were out in her front yard. The boy was beating on the girl and ended up swiping her bike. All this happened while M watched.

Her question to all of us: should I have tried to stop it?

My answer: if you had kids, would you want someone to try and stop it?

Her answer: yes.

My response: if that's the case then you better be willing to try and stop it yourself.

NOTE: "stopping it" wouldn't necessarily be physical but there's always a good possibility.

In the past, I've had to stop something once. Basically, some high school boy was beating on some high school girl in the parking lot of a local store. After I stepped in between him* and her and escorted her into the store, some guy drove up and threw the kid in the car. I think it was the right thing to do and had relatively little risk.

*I pretended like he wasn't there and focused only on her. In retrospect, this probably prevented it from turning into a ****ing contest between me and him. If the sail's not up, even with a whole lotta wind the boat'll barely budge.

[Becca]

I think we all know that one guy or girl who talks alot of BS. This story is from one of those people. I doubt it is true... The little punk would probably run and hide screeming for mommy if it did. But it ilistrates a good point to ponder if you know what I meen...

Anywho, the story goes that this guy was walking his dog one cold winter night and happened to see a little old lady waiting for the bus. He noticed that she wasn't paying attention to what was going on around her and two kids, about 13 or 14, were sneeking up on her. He figured they were getting ready to mug the old lady, or at least snatch her purse. the guy scooped up a snowball and threw it at the bigger of the two kids. The kids took off at a dead run, never looking back.

So anyway. Though I really doubt this happened, I have to give the guy credit for a good idea. A snowball is relitively harmless. If the kids had ment no harm, then there was no harm done to them. If they had, they were spooked off with little effort. And if they had been undercover cops, you could always tell them the truth of what you suspected.

Of course, you could also get into one great snow fight and end up making some good friends, too.;) :D

[fa_jing]

I never think about these things. Martial arts classes should focus on teaching the martial art, not teaching what it means to be a martial artist. Seriously I just think it will never happen and if it does, my expected reaction is not going to have anything to do with being a martial artist, other than the basic fact that I'm a able-bodied male capable of fighting.