Define "Grappling"

[Water Dragon]

Same as topic

You may take my life, but you will never take my Freedom

[Jaguar Wong]

things like throws, entangling, trapping, submissions/breaks, and anything else that involves "prolonged" contact to your opponent. Including things like a clinch, pressure point grabbing, chin na, trips/sweeps that rely on grabbing your opponent first, biting and holding on like a pitbull :).

stuff that doesn't rely on the initial damage made by contact (like a strike), but the potential to manipulate your opponent. As well as everything involved to counter the above techniques.

something like that.

Jaguar Wong

[Shaolindynasty]

Joint manipulation standing or on the ground

New classes New online Catalog
www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net (http://www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net)

[Braden]

I'm a little uneasy including sweeps, throws and trapping in the definition of grappling. Ditto to the "prolonged contact" definition; I always try to stay in contact with my opponent while I'm elbowing them in the face, so is that grappling?

I think of it as manipulation of the opponent following grabbing and holding.

[Jaguar Wong]

Braden, if you're using your "contact" to manipulate them into the elbow. I guess that was a little general, but I consider trapping (not the quick pin and strike type, but the pressing their arm against thier body to open the head up) to be a part of it, only because it maneuvers the target without using a strike, or relying on the damage inflicted by it.

I do agree that you want to maintain contact when fighting close, but to me that is a part of grappling, because you're using your sensitivity to feel how their trying to escape or attack which is what many grapplers do when defending strikes, or submissions.

I know it's general, but that's how I think of it. I don't teach it that way or anything, because I'm still putting my "fighting style" notes together to have a better grasp on the martial arts.

Jaguar Wong

[Water Dragon]

So, by the definitions above, would a throw be grappling, striking, or something totally different?

You may take my life, but you will never take my Freedom

[Jaguar Wong]

Not sure about the others, but I feel that the throws as seen in Judo, Shuai Chiao (and some Shuai Chiao elements in other styles), Wrestling, and other styles, are considered grappling, since you're holding onto your opponent, and using leverage to toss'em.

That's just me, though.

Jaguar Wong

[Braden]

What about throws where you don't hold on to the person?

[Shaolindynasty]

I am thinkin in terms of the 4 ways
- Ti=leg movements
- Da= hand techniques
- Chin na= Joint manipulation
- Shuai Jiao= throwing and "wrestling"

New classes New online Catalog
www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net (http://www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net)

[Jaguar Wong]

Braden,
I've never seen any, so I might have to change my definition, or at least throw those into another category :). If you're talking about sort of a hip check type sweep (using your elbows, or shoulders to off balance the upper body while the hip, or leg sweeps the feet out), then I would still consider that grappling, because you're in a position to maintain contact (if you go down with them) and keep control of their weapons.


But my definition is no where near perfect, it's just for me to understand. When I explain it to others, it's along the lines of what ShaolinDynasty mentioned. :)


Jaguar Wong

[MaFuYee]

depending on who you ask...

grapling => method of fulfilling ones ****-latent fantasies, while hiding behind the mask of machismo. - ideally involves 2 mostly naked, spandex clad males, rolling around on a mat, groping each other. - usually concludes with "manly" hugging, and patting of bottoms. - also, serves as a favorite form of spectating entertainment for ****-latent, video game playing miscreants.

*flee*

- I bet a funny thing about driving a car off a cliff is, while you're in midair, you still hit those brakes! Hey, better try the emergency brake!

[EARTH DRAGON]

thats funny braden says he practices ba gua, but now gives advice on grappling!

http://www.kungfuUSA.net

[Jaguar Wong]

I dunno, maybe I missed something. Where does he give advice about grappling. Besides...Braden, don't you also train in Machado BJJ?

Jaguar Wong

[taijiquan_student]

that's funny I thought Bagua had grappling...

"Duifang jing zhi meng ji, wo fang tui zhi ce fang xi zhi."

[KC Elbows]

Now that's funny. :D

[Braden]

Yeah, that's the kind of "grabless" throws I'm mostly talking about.

I wasn't giving advice about grappling, I was just curious about the nomenclature. My bread and butter is maintaining constant contact, fighting closer even than most "grapplers" like to when standing, and opponent control and positioning, but I pathologically avoid actually grabbing when I'm on my feet. So is what I do grappling? I've always thought "NO", because if what I do is grappling, then the only thing that would be considered striking would be a boxing/kickboxing type strategy of dancing about at range and trading blows, which doesn't strike me as a viable combat tactic. But at the end of the day, it's only nomenclature.

I did BJJ very briefly and have currently quit because my gf has come across the continent to spend a couple months with me and I could use the extra time. When she leaves or if she gets a job, I'm definitely taking it up again.

Yes bagua has grappling in it. To illustrate; there's no such thing as pure bagua, as the first generation practitioners all melded their present system with "bagua principles" to create combined arts. One of the largest branches (from which many of the methods I study comes from) is a bagua/shiao chiao combination. So obviously you're going to see alot of "grappling."

[Chang Style Novice]

I think I agree with Jaguar Wong, here. Grappling is any fighting technique that causes damage or control through continuous contact. IE: Grabbing someone to elbow them repeatedly is grappling, but the actual repeated elbows are not. How's that work for you guys?

_______________________
Powered by NymphoPop

[fmann]

Why not just say grappling is any technique utilizing control and manipulation on the ground or standing up?

grabbing and holding someone to setup strikes (e.g., thai clinching) = control
wrist lock = control and manipulation
arm bar = control and manipulation
throw = control (of the opponent's hips, body, etc. otherwise you can't throw), manipulation (of body position standing -> ground).

etc.

[toddbringewatt]

This is the preliminary stage of growth when the fruit is first forming on the vine. When the grappling reaches full maturity and is ready to be picked, we refer to it as simply "the grape".

"Bruce Leroy. That's who!"

[crumble]

How about grappling is "groundwork" and "non-percussive techniques that move the center of mass"?

That way simple sweeps and trapping of an arm or leg are not included, unless they are the kind that progressively lock the joints until the center of mass is effected. Throws of course are.

Kinda an academic exercise, but that's my two cents. :D

-crumble