HARD-CORE 'DIRTY' FIGHTERS

[JKDVIGILANTE]

How many of you have had to deal with one of these guys? If you have,what were their most noteable 'cheap-shots'?

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J.L.B.

[Robinf]

What would be considered a cheap shot in a street fight?

[JKDVIGILANTE]

Robin, here are some examples: hidden razor-blades,sand or salt thrown in your eyes--home-made elbow spike apparatus under long sleeves, beating someone long after they have been knocked-out,etc...

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J.L.B.

[PeteB]

I know exactly what your talkin about. In my neighborhood, people are usually gettin beat after the fight is done. It could be because these punk ass kids don't like to fight one on one so it's usually multiple on one. Happened to my father when he was workin in the projects. Luckily, he can fight. Not a martial artist, but an all out streetfighter. Grabbed one of them and choked him out. Told the others to leave or he would kill the one he had. It worked. That's my dad (his fight was three on one).

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When man is born he is soft and weak; When man dies he becomes stiff and hard. Thus, the stiff and unyielding follow death; The soft and yielding follow life.

[This message has been edited by PeteB (edited 05-11-2000).]

[JKDVIGILANTE]

.........

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J.L.B.

[JKDVIGILANTE]

PeteB, THANK GOD someone in here knows where I am coming from! I am apparently a 'minority' in these discussions. People that haven't seen the 'dark-side' of society are in for a real treat. I am a 'nasty' customer to deal with---and I am a 'good guy'. I feel for those inexperienced people who aregoing to deal with my 'evil-twin' one day. The odds are not in their favor. This is the reason I have chosen to defend the innocent and the meek, whenever I can. Because, lets face it, some people just can't fight, and they are our best neighbors. I have taken my training to levels that would make most people shudder and cringe. What kind of people just stand and watch another human-being be violated? Most that's who. What the hell is life worth if we don't help one another? I have devoted my life to this. Love me or hate me, I'm not changing my beliefs for anyone.

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J.L.B.

[PeteB]

I know where your comin from. More than once I stopped things because I thought they were gettin outta hand. I would help people out there that couldn't defend themselves. It's gettin dangerous now though. Kids out here got box cutters and pistols. You hit one of them and they're quick to shoot. One of my friends was killed for 2 silver chains that hung around his neck. His girl had to see him die. He wasn't botherin anyone, not breakin up any fights. Just walkin with his girl. It's dangerous man. Be careful in your quest. You don't want to end up as a casualty.

[JKDVIGILANTE]

I was standing next to a guy that had been shot through the mouth with a .357, the only reason the guy killed him was because he was black. This is what 'tore-it' fore me. Oh, it gets better, the ****in' cops on the scene took his money and 'pocketed' it. No justice at all--even the cops didn't fu-kin' care. That's why I am the way I am.

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J.L.B.

[PeteB]

Cops pull me over for nothin. They always got the excuse that my tail light is out. So why do they ask if I have drugs and guns and then pat me down. Life is just f*cked up. Good people get hurt, bad people get away with the craziest sh*t. Where do you live? I live in Jersey. I can't say that there's racial killing around my way, considering 80% of the people that live in my town are Hispanic. The violence of the ghetto is real, and I know you know what I'm talkin about. It's good to find someone that I can talk to about these things. I try to teach in a realistic manner. When my teacher lets me teach I show the students only techniques that I have actually used on the streets (the ones that worked), or ones that I can apply relatively accurately when I fight with my friends (those matches are fun, some bruises. Still fun though). Do you teach?

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When man is born he is soft and weak; When man dies he becomes stiff and hard. Thus, the stiff and unyielding follow death; The soft and yielding follow life.

[This message has been edited by PeteB (edited 05-12-2000).]

[wisdom mind]

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[This message has been edited by wisdom mind (edited 05-15-2000).]

[JKDVIGILANTE]

PeteB: I live in florida(used to live in Flanders,NJ). As for teaching; no I don't---I wouldn't know what to call what I taught,'BRUTALITY 101' maybe? I would gladly teach anyone that needed the help though. So long as their intentions were good. I wouldn't want to help create a 'super-criminal'! That would truly suck! For his victims.

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J.L.B.

[JKDVIGILANTE]

Hey guys, check-out my latest topic in 'kungfu forum'. Let me know what you think.

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J.L.B.

JKDVIGILANTE,

Fight on my brother. I will sleep better at night knowing that you are out there defending weak ones such as myself /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

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Vince

[Morpheus]

Dirty fighting
The dirtiest fight trick I've ever seen is the one there's no defence against :- a star picket over the back of the neck of a bloke sitting down having a drink after 'winning' an argument. 3 days in intensive care. Take care.

[Red]

The worst thing I saw before I started kung fu was an old man being beaten by a big gang. I daren't go in to fight, I just ran home and called the police.
As I live in England, I guess the violence isn't so bad, but bad things still happen.
The worst thing I saw was my friend come into college and he was like all beaten up. I asked him what happened and he said that he was in the park at night with his girlfriend. A big group of guys came up behind him and smashed a bottle over his head, knocking him out cold. Then they smacked his girlfriends face a couple of times, breaking her jaw. Then they went back to him and even though he was unconcious they stomped on his face until his nose went completely flat.
I really ****ed me off that did. I feel that I should have been there to help or protect him.
He did get one of the guys back though in a pub. He was playing snooker then noticed one of the kids so he went up to him and broke the cue across his face! He got banned from the pub, but at least got a little revenge.

[willfu]

All I have to say on this subject is that if some one or some people are going to go there and put my life or one of my friends or families lives into danger. All rules are off. I would be ready and willing to fight just as if not more 'dirty' than anyone.

[JKDVIGILANTE]

JKDVIGILANTESAY:IN REALITY,the time is going to come when you will be; struck from behind or confronted by 2 thugs or MORE--you will have a gun in your face(HAMMER COCKED-BACK)---YOU WILL FIGHT SOMEONE MUUUUCH TOUGHER THAN YOU--you will see women get beaten like men(in public)---i personally, was attacked by a woman on crack(NOT COOL)--<----I WAS AT WORK!---> I JUST HUGGED HER AND HELD ON,the cops were rougher on her than I was.Now, don't Kung Fu practioners train to defend against specific attacks? If your goal is to be able to defend your life, you have to know and understand what 'lurks' out there in the real world. There is no defense for an attack to your back.period. But you can force yourself to fight even though you have been shot,stabbed,beaten badly etc....I know, I have.

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J.L.B.

[LeadWolf]

Well, where to start??... Let's start with this, there is no rules in a street fight. (i know, i have had my fair share of fight's) and anyone who get's in a street fight should know this. Look for the hidden weapon's, watch his/her body language, it's a tell tale sign... if you do not want to be beat after your out... don't go down.. it's simple.. I know you can't alway's keep from going down, but improvise.. use what ever you can get to help you win.. i have fought for my life many of time's... I grew up in the getto, better yet, I was a white kid in a mexican neiborhood... it was not the happiest time of my life but i survived.. learned how to defend my self and became a fighter.... on the street there is no fair or unfair fight... it's just a fight....

let me tell a little story here... I was about ten yr's when this happen.. I was at a friend's house and we where just hanging out... a car load of mexican's pulled up talking about being on there turf and stuff... we just blew them off and walked away... then we heard gun shot's going off... one of my friend's was shot three time's in the back... we all tried to dodge the bullet's the best we could... but another friend was hit in the back of his head.... the rest of us got away.... the next day we where at a park about a block away and they pulled up again.... this time we had some more freind's there with us...... none of the mexican's made it back to the car....

I know that it was not right... to take someone else's life.... but there is no rule's in the game of survival.....

[shawn28]

JKDVIGILANTE,

I agree with you we need to take the streets
from these **** punks out there. If I
see them sorry S.O.B'S out there jumping
on somebody I too will be helping that
person..Cops can't do much so its up to
the law obeiying citizens to step up
and start kicking some ass...

SM

[Slater_E]

sand. got sand thrown at my face once. I closed my eyes in time. but that was cruel. it's hard to fight when your eyes are screatched, bleeding, and watering and itching.
It wasn't really a fight, he was just being rude to a friend so I pushed him away. he nelt down and before I could tell what he was doing he flung sand at me. I got only a little bit and I could see enough to grab my firend and we ran. I didn't want to fight the guy.......he was a loser.
(bigger than me too hehe) /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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"In a fight, there is no second place."

[tigernoel]

Here are few rules in a street fight:

1 - Multiple opponents - attack the strongest first.

2 - Lay your life before your opponent - Attack with the intent to kill. This shows you mean business. Nothing is more frightening than a crazy man; or a man who has nothing to lose. Picture a Marine charging with a bayonet. Marines overcome larger forces due to the very fact they fight with utmost intensity.

3 - Fight dirtier. Destroy him/them.


This sounds extreme, but when your life is on the line, it makes perfect sense.

[Braden]

Uh... attack the strongest first?

Maybe if you have the initiative; which isn't likely in a self-defense situation.

As far as dirty fighting goes, I think the worst I've seen was a few years back. These two kids were beating the crap out of a single guy, I saw it from about a few blocks away, and only caught the end; so I really have no idea what was going on.

But the single kid was face-down on the ground, not unconscious, but not about to get up. The other two stood there for a second, then one of them reaches down and hauled the kid up by his hair so he could slam his knee into the kid's face a couple times.

It was just so brutal to watch the lull in the fight, and then see that guy decide for no apparent reason that he was going to disfigure the poor kid.

I sprinted for them as soon as I saw what was going on, but the two aggressors took off before I got there.

I'm not sure why it left such an impression on me, I've been personally involved in worse. I think maybe the fact that they were kids (maybe 14ish) and that it was so senseless.

But really, when I think about it... every self-defense situation I've ever been in has been "dirty" (well, ok, with the exception of the stupid fights I got into when I was a kid)... cause if the situation isn't dirty, you can pretty much always just swallow your pride and walk away from it.

I think sometimes that I live in a very different culture than most of the posters here. People seem to talk about bar fights and wrestling to the ground, and unsaid-rules in streetfights. These just aren't the kind of situations that I have found myself in, or that concern me.

I have had people shove me or my loved ones around in bars, call us names, spill their drinks on us, whatever. What's the point in letting that escalate to a fight? I would sooner just pick up and leave.

In my experience, a streetfight is when two kids ask you for the time in the busstop, and when you look down at your watch you feel a knife in your kidney.

Situations like that are always dirty.

[NorthernMantis]

JKDVIGILANTE,

I got to give you my respects man.To go through all that is a lot.But I do believe in fighting dirty though.

I live in florida too. what part do you live in.I know it's hard, since I'm hispanic I've encountered racism from more than one race here.Anyway I'm lucky to say I've never been through that but I've seen my friends gang up on one.I never hung out with anyone of them after that though.

You know a lot of people are too ungrateful now.There's lots of people arguing about what style is best and they haven't ever been in a real street fight(including me).Some need to read this to see how tuff things are out there.

Hey JKDVIGILANTE,thanks for the info.From now on I'll take my training to a whole new level.I am still a traditionalists thought and I'm also still a kid so I need some growing up to do.

peace out

[This message has been edited by NorthernMantis (edited 07-27-2000).]

[Hung Wai]

I don't think there is such a thing as dirty in a fight. I've seen people get stabbed, one being a friend of mine and it was for pure stupid ****. I agree with you JKDV, the world has some fu# up people in it, so I don't want to risk some really nasty **** happening to me. I will avoid a fight if I can, but if I can't, I will do whatever it takes to win. The only thing I find dirty is guys ganging up on one person, and this I think is more cowardly than dirty. I hate to see someone start **** and then go fight with all his friends cause he can't finish what he started.
P.S. good post

[yungak]

Deleted

[This message has been edited by yungak (edited 08-25-2000).]

[Crouching Tiger]

I was walking down an ally one night, and three punk teens started acting all tough - one guy starting flippin a few kicks at my head, guess he thought he was a black belt or something.

I just ran into him, and grabed his balls, lifted him up, and threw him back on the cement. His othrer boys just ran like hell.
I could have kicked him when he was down, but I was mercifull. That poor sucker learned a bad lesson that night.

[joehyer]

I like to consider myself a nice guy, who doe,s not suffer from egomania. I,ve suffered at the hands of people without respwct or honor. I,m 41 with alot of mileage. Those who come against me and those I love,I consider them most dangerous. nuff said!


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Joehyer

[joehyer]

P.S. my wife says I,ll sleep right through it. While she takes my Katana from its place over the bed & chops the mothers head off. What a gal.

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Joehyer