OT - George Bush, more reasons to hate him

[templefist]

RESUME: George W. Bush The White
House, USA


EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE

LAW ENFORCEMENT: I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine in 1976 for driving
under the influence of alcohol. I pled guilty, paid a fine, and had my
driver's license suspended for 30 days. My Texas driving record has been
"lost" and is not available.

MILITARY: I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. I refused to
take a drug test or answer any questions about my drug use. By joining the
Texas Air National Guard, I was able to avoid combat duty in Vietnam.

COLLEGE: I graduated from Yale University. I was a cheerleader.

PAST WORK EXPERIENCE:

I ran for US Congress and lost.

I began my career in the oil business in Midland, Texas in 1975. I bought an
oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas. The company went bankrupt
shortly after I sold all my stock.

I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land
using taxpayer money.


With the help of my father and our right-wing friends in the oil industry
(including Enron CEO Ken Lay), I was elected Governor of Texas.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR:

I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies, making
Texas the most polluted state in the Union.

During my tenure, Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most smog-ridden city
in America.


I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune of billions in
borrowed money.

I set the record for the most executions by any Governor in American
history..

With the help of my brother, the Governor of Florida, and my father's
appointments to the Supreme Court, I became President after losing by over
500,000 votes.


ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:

I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over one
billion dollars per week.


I spent the US surplus and effectively bankrupted the US Treasury.

I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in US history.


I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month
period.

I set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the US
stock market.

I am the first president in US history to enter office with a criminal
record.


I set the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one year period.

After taking-off the entire month of August, I presided over the worst
security failure in U.S. history.


I am supporting development of a nuclear "Tactical Bunker Buster," a WMD.


In my State Of The Union Address, I lied about our reasons for attacking
Iraq, then blamed the lies on our British friends.

I set the record for most campaign fundraising trips by a US president.


In my first year in office over 2-million Americans lost their jobs and that
trend continues every month.

I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.


I appointed more convicted criminals to administration than any president in
US history.

I set the record for least amount of press conferences than any president
since the advent of television.


I presided over the biggest energy crisis in US history and refused to
intervene when corruption involving the oil industry was revealed.

I presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history.


I have cut health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut in duty
benefits for active duty troops and their families -- in war time.

I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously
protest me in public venues (15 million people) shattering the record for
protest against any person in the history of mankind.


I've broken more international treaties than any president in US history.

I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any
administration in US history. My "poorest millionaire," Condoleeza Rice, has
a Chevron oil tanker named after her.


I am the first president in US history to order an unprovoked, preemptive
attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against
the will of the United Nations, the majority of US citizens, and the world
community.

I created the Ministry of Homeland Security, the largest bureaucracy in the
history of the United States government.


I am the first president in US history to have the United Nations remove the
US from the Human Rights Commission.

I withdrew the US from the World Court of Law.


I refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war" detainees) and
thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention.

I am the first president in history to refuse United Nations election
inspectors (during the 2002 US election).

I am the all-time US and world record-holder for receiving the most
corporate campaign donations.


My largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my best friends,
Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in US
history. My political party used the Enron private jets and corporate
attorneys to assure my success with the US Supreme Court during my election
decision. I have protected my friends at Enron and Halliburton against
investigation or prosecution. More time and money was spent investigating
the Monica Lewinsky affair than has been spent investigating one of the
biggest corporate rip-offs in history.

I garnered the most sympathy for the US after the World Trade Center attacks
and less than a year later made the US the most hated country in the world,
the largest failure of diplomacy in world history.


I am first president in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%) view
my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security.

I changed the US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded
government contracts.


I have so far failed to fulfill my pledge to bring Osama Bin Laden and
Saddam Hussein to justice.


RECORDS AND REFERENCES: All records of my tenure as Governor of Texas are
now in my father's library, sealed, and unavailable for public view.

All records of SEC investigations into my insider trading and my bankrupt
companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.


All records or minutes from meetings that I, or my Vice-president, attended
regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for
public review.

Please consider my experience when voting in 2004.

[Bluesman]

He has my vote :D , again :)

[Meat Shake]

He should be ****ed in the ass with a pineapple. I hate bush. His name doesnt even deserve to be capitalized.

[SanSoo Student]

I think Dubya bush is high half of the time he is in office, because we all know old habits die hard, and all this military campaign is a result of too much CounterStrike.

[shaolin kungfu]

yeah, but in his defence, counter strike is totally awesome.

[scotty1]

Hmm, I got this in an email the other day. I was going to post it to see what people made of it, whether they could refute the claims etc.

Some of them are quite obviously a bit loosely interpreted but most of them are presented as fact.

So what's the deal? Is it true?

[jjj]

Aftre reading this I am voting for Hillary!

j/k

[Bluesman]

Originally posted by scotty1
Hmm, I got this in an email the other day. I was going to post it to see what people made of it, whether they could refute the claims etc.

Some of them are quite obviously a bit loosely interpreted but most of them are presented as fact.

So what's the deal? Is it true?

You can always believe what you get in an e-mail as fact, correct?
The economy was in a nose dive the last year before he took office. Granted, I have lost over 70,000 dollars in my 401k but it is not due to anything he has done, or not done. In fact, I have gained back over 20,000 this year and the economy was red hot in the 3rd quarter.
He put together the overthrow of the Tailban. Just because, again, the world depends on the USA and Britian to defend freedom, some how they are always ungrateful. The U.N. watched as saddam broke treaty after treaty and laughed at it because france had told him that they would keep the USA from attacking. This led to war, in my opinion. Also, if the UN would now step in , as the right thing, and help the people of Iraq stabalize their country from the thugs, it would be a long way to help freedom come to Iraq. But the UN is a hollow shell of what it once was.
Now let's look at al gore. Joined the army as a reporter to get out of combat. bill clinton also avoided the draft and even wrote that he hated the Army but had been in the ROTC to keep his political carrier viable, his words, not mine.
al gore and bill clinton also got high. George Bush did not answer the question. Remember how bill lied about it?
So he got caught drunk driving. He swore off drinking after that.
What kind of shape would we be in if gore or clinton had been in office during this troubling time?
Do you forget that the Army wanted the A1 Abrams tank in Somalia so if it got into trouble it would have some armor? The Black Hawks that went down and the people that went to rescue them had no armor to protect them. This resulted in our men getting killed because clinton didn't like the tanks to be shown on TV to the world. Have you forgotten the two Heroes that voulunteered to protect the downed BlackHawk? They were snipers who had kept back the thugs untill their magazines were emptied. The pieces of sh1t thugs dragged their bodies through the streets and clinton pulled the armed forces out of Somalia. This gave proof to the rest of the world that the USA was a paper tiger, who when hit, would turn tail and run.

[lkfmdc]

As usual, the left side of the democratic party likes to distribute stuff that isn't exctly true but sounds really good

- "I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine in 1976 for driving
under the influence of alcohol. I pled guilty, paid a fine, and had my driver's license suspended for 30 days."

This opposed to, let's say, a certain Kennedy who got into a car crash while driving a mistress home, LEFT THE SCENE of a CRIME, and the woman died... People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones

- I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. I refused to take a drug test or answer any questions about my drug use. By joining the Texas Air National Guard, I was able to avoid combat duty in Vietnam.

As opposed to Clinton, who did NO military service and marched in anti-US rallies which were organized by communist party members...

- COLLEGE: I graduated from Yale University.

How many here graduated from Yale?

- I ran for US Congress and lost.

Most politicians run and lose many times.... any point to that?

- With the help of my father and our right-wing friends in the oil industry (including Enron CEO Ken Lay), I was elected Governor of Texas.

Anyone who knows anything about George Bush senior knows he was ANYTHING but right wing! ANd I guess no one remembers Anne Richards making a fool out of herself during the election and thus LOST the election more than Bush won it....


- I set the record for the most executions by any Governor in American history..

This only matters if you are opposed to the death penalty. Frankly, a lot of peope deserve to die, the snipers in MD as a prime example

- "With the help of my brother, the Governor of Florida, and my father's appointments to the Supreme Court, I became President after losing by over 500,000 votes"

It's called the electoral system, look it up. Bush didn't create it. Gore said before the election results that he believed in the system and would never question it. SOUR GRAPES

Five different indendent organizations have now re-examined the process in Florida, including 3 DEMOCRATIC groups, all have concluded that BUSH WON... now get on with your lives and stop making excuses

- "I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over one billion dollars per week.

Yeah, he invaded the country that supported and sheltered the @zz holes that attacked us on 9/11 and one of the most virulent dictatorships in modern history

- I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period.

Democratic truth twisting, the period was immediately following 9/11 and thus the real people to blame are the terrorists

- I set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the US stock market.

DITTO

- After taking-off the entire month of August, I presided over the worst security failure in U.S. history.

Maybe if Clinton had done more than shoot an ineffective missile ONCE at Al Queda in the 8 years he was president, 9/11 wouldn't have happened. But CLINTON chose to ignore the threat, and 9/11 was in the planning stages more than 5 years, meaning it was being planned during CLINTON's administration

- I am supporting development of a nuclear "Tactical Bunker Buster," a WMD.

BOO HOO, the US is developing weapons, what a tree hugger complaint. Maybe you aren't interested in war, but war is interested in you....

- In my State Of The Union Address, I lied about our reasons for attacking Iraq, then blamed the lies on our British friends.

NO EVIDENCE FOR THIS AT ALL

- I set the record for most campaign fundraising trips by a US president.

Translation = democratics who can't make the same amount of money are ****ed and complain, but of course, they would accept the money if it was offered to THEM

- In my first year in office over 2-million Americans lost their jobs and that trend continues every month.

TREND ENDED ABOUT 8 MONTHS AGO

- I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously protest me in public venues (15 million people) shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind.

TRANSLATION, rather than sitting with my thumb up my @zz like Clinton did, I attacked our enemies and ****ed off a lot of people, I AM DOING A GOOD JOB

- I've broken more international treaties than any president in US history.

CRAP, cite some

- I am the first president in US history to order an unprovoked, preemptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of US citizens, and the world community.

TRANSLATION, rather than sitting with my thumb up my @zz like Clinton did, I attacked our enemies and ****ed off a lot of people, I AM DOING A GOOD JOB

- I am the all-time US and world record-holder for receiving the most corporate campaign donations.

Translation = democratics who can't make the same amount of money are ****ed and complain, but of course, they would accept the money if it was offered to THEM


- My largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my best friends, Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in US history blah blah

TWO WORDS; white water....

[Souljah]

bluesman

I dont see why you focus so much on his economical impact on the world, why does that matter when he is also responsible for the pain and suffering of thousands.
You say he helped rid Afghanistan of the Taliban, do you forget it was a previous but similar American administration that helped get them in the first place? Same with Saddam. They put him in until he stopped doing what they wanted, then they tried getting him out.
Does economy really matter that much that people are willing to make 70% of the world suffer so that 30% live off their backs in relative luxury....?

These are just a rough outline of what I want to say - I want to start a OT thread again but Kung and Gene will probably close it.
I know I will get alot of people disagreeing with me. I welcome the debate.

[scotty1]

You can always believe what you get in an e-mail as fact, correct?

No - that's why I was asking. :rolleyes:

Interesting to hear the other perspective.

[lkfmdc]

- You say he helped rid Afghanistan of the Taliban, do you forget it was a previous but similar American administration that helped get them in the first place? Same with Saddam. They put him in until he stopped doing what they wanted, then they tried getting him out. -

The crap some people believe is frightening. Look up how Saddam and the Bathe party came to power, then look up how the Taliban ended up in power. Don't believe propoganda, look it up for yourself...

[Mutant]

gw bush s#cks!:mad:

[Golden Tiger]

I dont see why you focus so much on his economical impact on the world, why does that matter when he is also responsible for the pain and suffering of thousands.


Well, at least all those thousands found in the mass graves won't have to suffer anymore......

[Kristoffer]

Sho re va händer/ kuken vänder/ mellan dina tänder/

[lkfmdc]

For all those tree huggers who think that if we just "leave those Muslims alone" we'd have a nice, peaceful quiet world, I strongly suggest you get your hands on the BBC special about Muslim extremists....

They believe that if you don't follow THEIR interpretation of the Koran, you DESERVE TO DIE and that it is their mission to put the WHOLE WORLD UNDER THEIR CONTROL

The world belongs to Allah, and if you don't worship Allah (according to how they see it) you must go

[Mutant]

r/e muslim extremists; yes they are nuts and have to be dealt with harshly.... but that doenst change the fact gw bush is aweful. we need somebody who isnt a complete @sshole to deal with them and actually make headway without turning the entire world against us in the process.

[Bluesman]

Any extremist scares me. I don't care if they are Christian, Jewish or the worst....Democart :rolleyes:
This is not a Muslim bashing thread. Some have hi-jacked Islam for their on purposes.

[lkfmdc]

Reading always helps when you are trying to debate a subject

- "I strongly suggest you get your hands on the BBC special about Muslim extremists.... (IE EXTREMISTS)

They believe that if you don't follow THEIR (ie EXTREMISTS) interpretation of the Koran, you DESERVE TO DIE and that it is their mission to put the WHOLE WORLD UNDER THEIR CONTROL

The world belongs to Allah, and if you don't worship Allah (according to how they see it) (IE EXTEMISTS) you must go"


So no this isn't about "Muslims" it is about "Muslim extremists"

:rolleyes:

[Merryprankster]

I wish people would go look things up for themselves. We live in a world where any idiot can get what they think disseminated around the globe in a matter of minutes. It used to take a publisher, a hefty amount of capital and something relatively intelligent to say.

The need for critical thinking increases as information flow increases.

[jjj]

>gw bush is aweful

I am in awe of him also...

[Vash]

Extremists (Religious and Political [seems a bit superfluous to list
those as two separate institutions])

Those with No Opinions (don't care)

Those with Opinions, but not the balls to do anything about them
(Someone should fix this sh!t!)

Right-Wing Politicians

Left-Wing Politicians

Conservatives

Moderates

Liberals

Politicians (this won't get me elected)

Tree-Huggin' Hippies (Make Love, Not War)

Those who have the opportunity and ability to learn, yet refuse to
(what good is that dumb sh!t?)

The Lazy (know whatimsayin?)

The Zealots (there is no zealotry when one follows the path)

Those who believe what they are told without question
(Violence doesn't solve anything)

Those that question only to show their presumed intelligence



I think that covers pretty much everyone. Oh, and the elderly. And puppies. 'Specially the cute ones.

[Souljah]

The crap some people believe is frightening. Look up how Saddam and the Bathe party came to power, then look up how the Taliban ended up in power. Don't believe propoganda, look it up for yourself...

It is documented that Saddam was maintained and funded by the USA - in the hope of ridding them of the problems the Ayatola's In Iran were causing them at the time. He may have gotten in of his accord but he WAS armed to the teeth with American and British weapons.
And to the latter, mujahaddin, thats all I have to say.
Is this the false propaganda you mentioned I've been fed?


Well, at least all those thousands found in the mass graves won't have to suffer anymore......

I didnt say that Saddam and any other mass murderers weren't bad but you can still put the likes of Henry Kissenger on their level. George Bush has only bareley been in 5 minutes and already has unecessarily caused the deaths of tens of thousands.

[shaolin kungfu]

**** THE MAN! THE REVOLUTION IS AT HAND!!

[KC Elbows]

I think it's a bit of a catch-22. I do think the region we're messing in needs to get their act together, yet I also think we're imminently unqualified to do so. I think by alienating other nations from involvement, we give the enemy one convenient target that can be defeated, as opposed to no single target to be found aside from the whole of the civilized world. I think our country has made idiotic attempts to win the middle eastern world to our side through commercials about how great muslims say life is in the US, and failed to recognize that the real world experience some in that region have with us is our use of dictators to fight the soviets, and then our walking away as those dictators took command. I think that the people here that are willing to act are also willing to make concessions to big business that will just exacerbate problems in the region. I think the idea that any nation as a whole in the middle east will accept our armies as "liberators" except those we already support full on, was horribly naive of our leadership, as were our "post [traditional] war" plans, and I think the very people who had the capacity to act when others didn't are the same people who will most likely choose to put another puppet in place if the democracy doesn't work. The only up side I see to this is that eventually, the region will recognize that no other country has their interests at heart, and will pull themselves up by the bootstraps. This doesn't make our choices good.

As for the whole muslim fundamentalist issue, take away their poverty and you take away their suicide bombers and foot soldiers. Men will fight you to keep their religion, but not their poverty. Remember, it was poor white trash who set off a bomb in OK city. The whole muslim issue is a waste of thought, except to understand their religion. Rich muslims might say "kill the US", but without poor muslims and US shenanigans, I think you'd find mighty few muslims blowing themselves up. we'd probably have suicide christians were our positions reversed, answering to the fundamentalists in our camp, but because they've got the necessities of life covered, they don't blow up things too often.

In theory, I agree in the idea of stabilizing the region, but I just think we're politically incapable of doing so. Our military could probably take any region, but our politicians and policy can't keep them, irrespective of party, imo. We alone can only make an easy target and an easy rallying point for extremists. And we're doing a godawful job of involving anyone else, and the impression that leaves is that our interests prevent sharing authority, and that does not win faith in the whole program from Americans, from Iraqis, or from anyone else. For this to work, imo, it needs the support of more than Bush fans, more than Americans, and more than the west as a whole. And Bush only has Bush fans and a few others. Our military is great and disciplined and exemplary as far as conduct goes, but in present american politics, I doubt you'd find one party that could claim the same, and our politics are driving the show. That's what I think.

Also, I think people need to check their thesauruses and find out that terrorism and insurgency are not synonyms. Attacking military targets, however horrible the results, is not an act of terrorism. Ultimately, this kind of word game only makes war itself mean the same thing as terrorism, and then we're in trouble. Of course, it's just a propaganda game, using the t word. A woman here recently was accused of an act of terrorism by phoning in some threat to a school. I thought the sniper dude got that, too. I mean, how stupid do you have to be to think that, without that new charge, this guy was getting anything but a one way trip to death row? Are there really people out there going "Man, good thing they've got this terrorism charge, or that guy that shot all those people would be getting off scot free"?

/rant

[MonkeySlap Too]

Several of the 9/11 killers were not poor people. Poverty alone does not create zealous behavior. Thousands of hours of television shows showing you how the jews and the Christians are the source of all the worlds problems, followed by a Friday visit to the mosque where you are promised a bevy of virgins and little boys to f@ck in the afterlife - rinse and repeat for your whole life - can make you pretty crazy.

Imagine homicidal Pat Robertsons on every street corner...THAT is the Midle East my friends. Go ahead and read the Quran, and the sermons given every Friday in the Midle East, and by the way, here in the US - in Saudi financed Mosques and schools - and be afraid. Be VERY afraid. Because I don't think we have the courage as a nation to do what has to be done to stop this scourge of 'extremeism.'

[Bluesman]

You put your words together quite nicely, although I believe that the Germans and French are playing games by not allowing the UN to go in now. What they do not understand is that they have as big or bigger stake in what is going on in their backyard.

[KC Elbows]

I love this game, where we all post what we think based on information we all have but recognize is not even close to enough info to come up with a real picture, and then color it with the propaganda of our favorite faction. Here, I'll switch sides on my own post. Introducing CONSERVATIVE ELBOWS:

KC, you're undermining our troops by saying that we're incapable of doing this. And if other nations wanted in, they would have backed us in the UN, instead of taking part in political wrangling.

And why shouldn't Americans benefit? It was America that took the risk? I don't get that.:confused:

Also, lots of Iraqis have welcomed us, you just don't see that on the news, for obvious reasons.

You are right about the middle east needing to step up to the plate. That's why what is happening in Iraq is so important.

And muslims have been killing muslims long before the US was around.:rolleyes:

And again, I'm all for other countries getting behind the US's efforts, I'm sure our president is as well.

Naive leftist![This is slightly unfair, as in my original post, I didn't have my alter ego CONSERVATIVE ELBOWS to call a right wing fascist]

That's fun. I'd like to see Christopher M join in with an argument between Gnostic M and Calvinist M on the topic of salvation.

[KC Elbows]

Monkeyslap,

Which of the bombers were not poor? Just curious. And what does invading Iraq have to do with fighting muslim extremism that wouldn't have been better served by fighting it in just about any other muslim country, including saudi arabia, seeing as how Sadam Hussein is not a muslim extremist, nor his country exactly notable in support of terrorists? His country housed taliban, but didn't Pakistan?

Bluesman,

Oh, I agree that France and Germany have political games going on as well. What annoys me is the idea that we, or any payer, doesn't, especially in regards to this issue for us.

[MonkeySlap Too]

My memory is short, but I'm confident that both Atta and his buddy had good middle class incomes and families.

I think you'll find that poverty is not the driving factor here. It is part of it, but there are more complex issues at stake here. Including the fact that the world view taught in most of the middle East is like 13th century Europe - and we wouldn't like those people either, you dang heretics.

KC - I love taking the different points of view - but eventually I draw the line - it is NOT in my best interest to consider the feelings or views of someone actively waging war on me until they are rendered unable to continue waging war or are no more.

Then I can afford to wax philosophic. Then I can consider why I think ultimately this is a result of America inheriting the UK's bullsh!t - and willingly doing it.

I just keep thinking of the Carthaginians and all the trouble they cause us. No wait, they don't because there AREN'T any more Carthaginians...

[MonkeySlap Too]

Personally I agreed with V. Putin - Saddam was an @ss and a danger, but at least he wasn't a Muslim fanatic - he disliked them as much as we did.

[shaolin kungfu]

all this begs the question...

How can you have any putin if you dont eat your meat?

[Kristoffer]

it's better than ass marinade

[shaolin kungfu]

:D

[KC Elbows]

Monkeyslap, at some point, it ceases to be UK's bull**** anymore, and it becomes our bull****, with our own spin on it.

Really, I'm not saying to consider anyone's view. I'm saying that I think the present tactic is inane because of our very nature as a country, as you alluded before. In order to do what you are inferring, we would not only need to take Iraq and make it truly ours/friendly to an extreme, but then we would need to force fundamental changes in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, etc. and considering our involvement in Israel, the only way I see this happening is by force, except I don't see it, because we as a nation don't function that way. Perhaps the WWII generation or their like, a group who actually benefitted greatly from joining the military, where joining meant three square and opportunity, neither of which they necessarily would have gotten without; but the Americans you have today are a different people, with different advantages and disadvantages. To make a plan that requires an army you cannot hope to form is not good planning.

I really hope I'm incorrect about the planning, but it really, in some ways, seems like that's the plan- make a war that requires something we don't have. That doesn't lead to victory.

And as far as hate toward us, I agree that's a problem, but again, I never said "understand them" other than my comment about understanding the viewpoint of their religion, which someone has to in order to find ways to force diplomacy if the opportunity presents itself and/or conduct economic warfare in a muslim environment, which is a major off topic from the Iraqi issue, imo. Soldiers need not understand the enemies culture, spies and planners must.

Again, if it were primarily about terrorism, we wouldn't be invading Iraq, we'd be invading another middle eastern country, unless Iraq is just a staging point to reach bigger fish, in which case we're idiots for not engaging more allies to the task, because we cannot do it with just us and the UK, because we're not what we once were, nor should we be.

[KC Elbows]

Sorry monkey, didn't see your last post. I follow. Hussein's government did have that advantage for us, and was stable. That's why it seems to me that this either has nothing to do with muslim terrorists, or is part of a larger plan that involves the sudden resurrection of the WWII Americans. Which would be okay, except my grandfather would be pretty ****ed to have his rest disturbed by a republican.:D

[shaolin kungfu]

Poop is sexy

[trilobite]

Originally posted by shaolin kungfu
Poop is sexy

That belongs on LUE.

[Kristoffer]

**** that you racist! Don't talk down the poop muther****er

[CaptinPickAxe]

bush is an assbiting war-monger who is killing America's reputation. We went from the protectors of the world to well-funded terrorists. He's wasted billions and billions of dollars on 2 seperate wars that did not produce what he promised:
1. Osama Bin Laden
2. Saddam Hussien
If neither were apprehended, then what the **** were we fighting for? And why do I have to pay for this fine-tuned ****-up's war? Because of this ****bird, I have to pay more for school and earn less. All the Clinton and bush comparisons are irrelivant. Clinton didn't plunge our country into debt, he didn't needlessly start wars, and he didn't cheat (as bad?) to get into office.

Everyone sing it together.
(to the tune of "Proud to be an American")
I'm ashamed to be an American.
In a land that was built by slaves.
And I won't forget the men who fight
in a richman's war.
so I shamefully sit down
and pray for a better day.
when bush is outta office.
and we can mend our broken ties
GOD HELP THE USA!

[templefist]

I didnt write this, I just found it online and wanted to see what everyone thought of it especially these parts.


I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies, making Texas the most polluted state in the Union


During my tenure, Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most smog-ridden city in America


I set the record for the most executions by any Governor in American history.. This includes executing RETARDED people. He must find that job really hard as he is a "born again christian":rolleyes:


I set the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one year period. Before he was even in office we knew that the economy was going down the tubes, so why not take a ton of vacations? That should solve it.


I appointed more convicted criminals to administration than any president in US history. Does anyone know anything about this?


I set the record for least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television This is most likely because he talks like a 6th grader. You ever notice that in all his speeches that he always has the same "sh!t-eating" grin on? It always makes me laugh.


I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously protest me in public venues (15 million people) shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind. This kind of says something....that I am doing something WRONG.


I am the first president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the Human Rights Commission

I withdrew the US from the World Court of Law

I refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war" detainees) and thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention.

Somalia should not even be brought up as a point for any reason because:
A: It was not our war, we had no place being there
B: We Slaughtered THOUSANDS of men, women and children in our campain. Sure losing Americans in combat is sad, but think of how many lives were lost on the opposing side. Go America:rolleyes:

[trilobite]

*sings*

[Bluesman]

Originally posted by templefist
I didnt write this, I just found it online and wanted to see what everyone thought of it especially these parts.





This includes executing RETARDED people. He must find that job really hard as he is a "born again christian":rolleyes:
I was not aware that he was on a jury or was the judge that imposed the sentance. If he was not, then he was following the law.

Before he was even in office we knew that the economy was going down the tubes, so why not take a ton of vacations? That should solve it.

Does anyone know anything about this?

This is most likely because he talks like a 6th grader. You ever notice that in all his speeches that he always has the same "sh!t-eating" grin on? It always makes me laugh.

This kind of says something....that I am doing something WRONG.
He didn't make millions being stupid. And unlike gore, didn't ask for a recount for only the counties that he won. That really was stupid as it wasted what little time he had to challenge the count. gore should have known that it was going to be thrown out.





Somalia should not even be brought up as a point for any reason because:
A: It was not our war, we had no place being there
B: We Slaughtered THOUSANDS of men, women and children in our campain. Sure losing Americans in combat is sad, but think of how many lives were lost on the opposing side. Go America:rolleyes:
We were there to prevent the starvation of the people. George Herbert Walker Bush, the elder Bush, could not stand by as the rest of the world watch people dying from hunger. clinton, however, changed the objective to one of trying to capture the warlords. The milatary informed him that it was not over there for that mission and lack the tools. He did not let them have the Abrams. One of the things that could have saved us from losing those fine men. And running out of Somalia is one of the points that is used to attack the USA now.
Does anyone remember what country it was that tried to had over bin laden to the USA but clinton was scared to take him? Or that later he sent a few cruise missles into some empty tents in A***anstan? This just built bin laden up in some Arabs minds.
Hey, if you don't like Bush it is ok. I just think we would be in a world of hurt without him in office during the attacks. LOL, can you imagine bumper stickers with WWGD ? for gore? Our country may have been in one heck of a mess.

[Volcano Admim]

Bu$h sucks

[joedoe]

Originally posted by Bluesman

We were there to prevent the starvation of the people. George Herbert Walker Bush, the elder Bush, could not stand by as the rest of the world watch people dying from hunger. clinton, however, changed the objective to one of trying to capture the warlords. The milatary informed him that it was not over there for that mission and lack the tools. He did not let them have the Abrams. One of the things that could have saved us from losing those fine men. And running out of Somalia is one of the points that is used to attack the USA now.
Does anyone remember what country it was that tried to had over bin laden to the USA but clinton was scared to take him? Or that later he sent a few cruise missles into some empty tents in A***anstan? This just built bin laden up in some Arabs minds.
Hey, if you don't like Bush it is ok. I just think we would be in a world of hurt without him in office during the attacks. LOL, can you imagine bumper stickers with WWGD ? for gore? Our country may have been in one heck of a mess.

From what I read in the book Blackhawk Down, the streets in Mogadishu are so tight that even if they'd had the tanks they could not have completed the mission - that is why helicopters were used, and why the rescue mission took so long to get there.

[SanSoo Student]

I think that Bush doesn't have the right set of priorirties. I mean the war on terrorism starts by protect major water supplies, powe plants, and so forth. He could have saved billions of dollars if he didn't go to war. He could've used the money saved to actually not screw over the education system, I mean the future of this nation is already dumb enough with sufficent funds.

[Bluesman]

saddam was and is a dangerous man. His dislike of the free world is well known.
The war sent a message, strongly, that if you become a danger by being friendly with terrorists, then you will be removed.

[shaolin kungfu]

saddam was and is a dangerous man. His dislike of the free world is well known.

He liked us just fine when we were helping him.


The war sent a message, strongly, that if you become a danger by being friendly with terrorists, then you will be removed.

I think the war sent the message that it's ok to attack nations without any real proof of them doing anything against you. Difference of opinion i geuss.

[Souljah]

bush is an assbiting war-monger who is killing America's reputation. We went from the protectors of the world to well-funded terrorists.

Not really, the US has a looooong history of doing this sort of thing for "the better good of the world".

The whole "war on terrorism" and "we must fight (and bomb no doubt) until the enemy has been defeated" is a complete nonsense, there will always be opposers to the way you operate and people who so strongly disagree with you to the point that they are willing to fight by any means necessary. There is no "Defeating" the enemy, there is "defeating the enemy for now"
like pushing a bump down and having it pop up in another spot (a la tom&jerry).
The only real way to perhaps work towards an end is a comprimise - to change internally to meet needs instead of trying to externally obliterate people who dont agree with you or dont want to cohere with your 'economic vision'.

But like Bush Senior once said

"The American way of life is NOT up for negotiation."

How can we have any kind progress with this sort of attitude...?

[jun_erh]

Bush for president 2004

[Songshan]

You know It suprises me to see how many idiots that post and flame our president and this country. Noone here is perfect and has never made any mistakes in life. You live You learn. In such trying times and all these threats that threaten USA you are going to sit there and type complete nonsense?? What the hell planet do you come from? You have the freedom of speech because of all the soldiers that died in past times for you that made this country possible. I say to you, have you forgotten about 9/11? In times like today we should all be in unity as Americans. Not everyone is going to agree with decisions made by our political leaders, but the decisions made are well thought out and processed through our government. If you don't like our country then you can get the hell out.

[scotty1]

Nice attitude Songshan.

Lets imagine that you had a different administration, one that you didn't agree with, say a 'liberal' one. And their reaction to these 'troubling times' was to sit on their hands and do nothing, or whatever, just a course of action you didn't agree with. You would voice your opposition to that.

So then imagine that someone turned to you and said "Not everyone is going to agree with decisions made by our political leaders, but the decisions made are well thought out and processed through our government. If you don't like our country then you can get the hell out."

I suppose you would right? Like hell you would. You'd speak out against what you didn't agree with, it just so happens that you probably agree, more or less, with the Bush administration.

That argument is completely ridiculous, makes you look ridiculous for saying it and discourages people thinking independently of their government.

[chingei]

GOP Congress achieves major goals, builds up major animosity

Iraq funding, Medicare reform and abortion rights
Wednesday, November 26, 2003 Posted: 2:56 PM EST (1440 GMT)


WASHINGTON (AP) -- With Republicans in control, Congress in 2003 gave President Bush the money he asked for Iraq, voted the biggest changes in Medicare in four decades and narrowed abortion rights for the first time in 30 years.

All that came with limited Democratic support and at a level of partisan animosity that could complicate GOP efforts to further their agenda in the second year of the 108th Congress, when the focus will turn more to next fall's election.

Recapturing the Senate in the 2002 election gave Republicans control of both houses and the White House, and the party wielded that power to considerable effect.

In May the GOP pushed through a $330 billion tax cut package, the third in Bush's three years in office, that offered rebates and lower rates for families and new breaks for businesses and investors.

"Clearly, the tax cuts we enacted into law paved the way for a better economy," House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Illinois, said, pointing to recent economic growth numbers.

Earlier this month, despite some Democratic protests about the cost and direction of the operation in Iraq, Congress gave President Bush the $87 billion he sought to pay for military and rebuilding efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan. That came on top of a $62 billion package approved last April for the war in Iraq and the anti-terrorism campaign.

As lawmakers turn toward the 2004 election, the most notable legislative success may be the passage this week of a $395 billion bill bringing fundamental changes to Medicare, including a new prescription drug benefit for 40 million older and disabled Americans.

"That was absolutely huge," said Ohio Rep. Deborah Price, who chairs the House Republican Conference. "It was probably the hardest thing I've seen us do in the 11 years I've been in Congress, and probably one of the most significant in the long term."

With that accomplished, the House and Senate will try next month to complete work on a package lumping together all the unfinished spending bills for the 2004 budget year before adjourning for the year.

The Medicare victory was tempered by the failure of a GOP-crafted energy policy bill to clear the Senate. That bill is sure to be at the top of the agenda when Congress returns next year to deal with highway spending, efforts to rein in asbestos, class action and medical malpractice lawsuits, and a festering dispute over some of the president's judicial nominations.

With wide bipartisan support, Congress approved a five-year, $15 billion bill proposed by the president to combat AIDS in 14 African and Caribbean nations. Another $5.6 billion over 10 years was set aside to research and stockpile vaccines in response to the threat of bioterrorist attacks.

One of the more popular bills signed into law this year set up a federal "do-not-call" registry to block telemarketer calls. Another established a national Amber Alert program to help spread information about missing children. Yet another makes drug companies do research on proper dosages for medication given to children.

Far more controversial was legislation, signed into law by the president and now facing a court challenge, to ban what opponents refer to as partial birth abortion. It was the first federal restriction on abortion rights since the 1973 Supreme Court decision giving women the right to end pregnancies.

[chingei]

Originally posted by Souljah


The whole "war on terrorism" and "we must fight (and bomb no doubt) until the enemy has been defeated" is a complete nonsense. The only real way to perhaps work towards an end is a comprimise - to change internally

I'm sure some people would be thrilled to hear your views




---the terrorists!

(and they still want to kill you, no matter how much you want to appease them)

[jun_erh]

baghdad blogs (http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/)


Read it and also check out the links. Can't get much more direct than that.


ARE U STILL DOWN?

[scotty1]

I don't think a compromise is the way to deal with extremists.

By nature a compromise is a non-extreme course of action, and it takes both sides to agree to one. Can't see that happening.

[The Willow Sword]

We are ALL FU#KED ANYWAY. We are either gonna DIE of WAR PESTULENCE,,AIDS,,POLLUTION,,HOLOCOST,,,CAR ACCIDENT,,,,WALKING YOUR DOGGY,,,,HIGH CHOLESTEROL,,,,MUGGING,,,,RAPE,,,,,,OLD AGE,,,ETC......SO lets just all Have a drink and welcome the end when it comes and in the MEANTIME just live your lives the way we wanna live em.

Sh!t if you wanna be a criminal then be one,,eventually you will be caught and chewed up in to the system but even so you were HAPPY doing what you loved to do.

If you Wanna be a Politician that fuks the system to get more money then great,,you will eventually lose all that money and die a poor depressed alchoholic but you know what? YOU were at least HAPPY living your life the way you want.

If you want to be a pederast and join the clergy,,,,then may God be with you my son,,,SOon the little boys you a$$ raped will come forward and you wqill have to live in shame for the rest of your life,,but hey,,GOD AND JESUS will forgive you and you are assured a place in heavan.......

Lets here it for the priest pederasts kids. out of ALL these ways to live your life, Being a Priest AND a Pederast is the perfect way to live,,,you can serve GOD,,,,and fuk whomever and wherever you want, you are taken care of by the church,,,,,POLITICS doesnt matter since seperation of chuch and state laws, You are Forgiven no matter WHAT. Holy Sh!t HEll Fire im gonna go be a priest.
ta taaaaaa kids :rolleyes:


peace tws

[Vash]

I like it.

Now, soon's as I's is not a gimp no mo, I'm gonna go burn down the White House!!!

[Christopher M]

It doesn't matter if any of that is true.

It doesn't matter how much of an ass Bush is or isn't.

This is what matters:

There's an election coming up where people can either vote for Bush or someone else. People who allready hate Bush are still going to hate him after reading that. People who allready love Bush are still going to love him after reading that. The only people it can effect are those people who are neutral and trying to think critically about the issues at hand so they can vote for the person putting forth the best solutions. However, instead of showing how they have better solutions, people like the author of that article are content to try and show how Bush is or isn't an ass. This undermines their position. It says "We don't have any better solutions to put forth." And this says "Don't vote for us." And that says "Vote for Bush." The only thing they're making clear is that people other than Bush have nothing substantial or constructive to say. And that's a **** shame, because it isn't true. When Bush wins next election, whatever blame there is will be upon the hands of people who would rather spread inflammatory propaganda than offer constructive discussion about the very real problems which face our society.

We need less haters, people, less haters. If you're really sure you're right about being a hater, you're just like every other hater.

[Serpent]

Of course, the fundamental flaw with that reasoning, Chris, is that most Americans seem to be brainwashed by the sh!t they're spoon-fed and they're convinced that they are the greatest and Bush is the man. The large majority of opposition to Bush comes, here as everywhere else, from the rest of the world, and the rest of the world doesn't have a say in American elections. Of course, as he proved last time, Bush doesn't need to get voted in anyway - if he loses the vote he'll just steal office.

You (as in America) wants to be the great global power - OK, let the whole world vote for the leader of the US then. You can be d@mn sure Bush wouldn't be anywhere near the top of that poll!

[Vash]

There is a difference between the United States Federal Government and the American People. Well, there used to be. No, there used to be the idea of one being superior to the other, that is, the People over the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches.

Didn't work out, though.

Of those that vote, most are ill-informed. Of those that don't, they are the ones who seem to care most about America :confused:

Never been said before, huh?

To make a point:

Bush is a worthless human being, as is the majority of the government. And the People. And the World.

Nothing good anywhere, really. Not where there's more than three people.

[Christopher M]

Originally posted by Serpent
Of course, the fundamental flaw with that reasoning, Chris, is that most Americans seem to be brainwashed...

So far as that's true, I'm not sure how it's a flaw in my reasoning. Is the cure for brainwashing more brainwashing? Or is the cure for brainwashing the demonstration on just how empty the content of that brainwashing is by showing people what real discussion looks like? I guess I'm not an absolute pessimist about the human race yet, because I still believe it's the latter.


they're convinced that they are the greatest and Bush is the man.

Is that true? I keep hearing that Bush's popularity is at the lowest of any president, and how there has never been an [American] protest movement as large or as vocal as the anti-Bush one. I will freely admit I haven't researched those claims to see if they are true; are you suggesting they're not - that it's quite the contrary?

[Daredevil]

George Dubbya's Imperialism isn't anything new to those of in the Old World. We've seen our share of dictators and megalomaniacs so we know one when we see one. ****, we're stuck with the Italians in the same Union. =)

And, guys, we're seeing one.

I hope -- and actually trust -- the American people will make the right choice for the world as a whole when it comes the time to vote (though I'm sure being the new Rome appeals to a lot of you -- I can't blame you -- but America can be so much more than a pale imitation of an old tyranny).

[Bluesman]

I doubt if that makes you an expert.
It is my belief that President Bush is a good man and will again have my vote.
The french, and to a lesser extent the germans, should stop hindering the UN from going in and helping to stabalize the country of Iraq. If not , it going to come and bite us all in the @ss.
They are doing just what the terroists want them to do.

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

Actually the U.N. COULD do a decent job if the USA would stop abusing their veto right.
:D

Personally, I would get rid of the veto rights for EVERYBODY anyway, only that way could be have a proper consensus.

[joedoe]

Originally posted by Bluesman
I doubt if that makes you an expert.
It is my belief that President Bush is a good man and will again have my vote.
The french, and to a lesser extent the germans, should stop hindering the UN from going in and helping to stabalize the country of Iraq. If not , it going to come and bite us all in the @ss.
They are doing just what the terroists want them to do.

Don't take this as US bashing, but I find it amusing that the USA, Britain & Australia (and other members of the coalition of the willing) were happy to circumvent the UN to attack Iraq, but now they want to UN to assist in cleaning up the resulting mess? Kinda wanting both ways isn't it?

[old jong]

Wake me up if they find mass destruction weapons...Remember?...ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[shaolin kungfu]

HEY OJ!! WAKE UP!!!!!!!! THEY FOUND SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!












































































oh, nevermind, it was just a shoe.

[Vash]

We also found Weapons of Minimal Distraction. I think there were some rocks, and some slings, and stuff like that.

Maybe an empty shell casing. Or something hot and shiny.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Christopher M
Is that true? I keep hearing that Bush's popularity is at the lowest of any president, and how there has never been an [American] protest movement as large or as vocal as the anti-Bush one. I will freely admit I haven't researched those claims to see if they are true; are you suggesting they're not - that it's quite the contrary?

You tell me. I'd love to think that the American people were against Bush in a huge way. Why not recall him now like the Californians did to Gray Davis? Don't Americans love to shout about how they are allowed to bear arms in order to prevent their government from becoming a tyranny?

Look around yourselves, people. And look beyond your own borders, 'cos that affects you too. Remember 9/11.

Of course, if you wait till 2004 and then oust Bush with a vote then fair enough. But just think what he could do with another year in power. That's at least one more war! ;) Not to mention that the vote of the people doesn't seem to matter to him anyway, judging by the last election.

[Bluesman]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/13/elec04.poll.bush/
http://washingtontimes.com/national/20031013-105025-1820r.htm
http://www.msnbc.com/news/980026.asp?0cv=CB10
Posted by JoeDoe:
Don't take this as US bashing, but I find it amusing that the USA, Britain & Australia (and other members of the coalition of the willing) were happy to circumvent the UN to attack Iraq, but now they want to UN to assist in cleaning up the resulting mess? Kinda wanting both ways isn't it?

No, it is not. They were asked to take action then and it didn't and are asked to take action now and are not.
The USA as well as the other nations were wanting the UN to abide by it's resultions concerning Iraqi failue to co-operate . Had the UN threated to go in and force Iraq to comply with the UN resultions instead of france going behind the UN's back and telling Iraq that the USA would not attack , maybe the bloodshed would not have occured. No one knows what may have developed but france is no friend of the USA.
Anyone Recall that france also would not allow the USA to fly over its airspace to attack Qdaffi? The F-111 still did their job quite well but put their lives at risk due to the extreme duration of flight.

__________________

[Daredevil]

Originally posted by joedoe


Don't take this as US bashing, but I find it amusing that the USA, Britain & Australia (and other members of the coalition of the willing) were happy to circumvent the UN to attack Iraq, but now they want to UN to assist in cleaning up the resulting mess? Kinda wanting both ways isn't it?

Yeah, that's the thing that bugs me, personally.

Of course, it's not an easy situation. In some ways, it's our responsibility (as fellow humans and ones living in relative luxury) to help there. In some ways I like to think "the Americans started it, let them finish it", but the thought of American soldiers dying there to keep a tenous order doesn't appeal to me either.

Of course, the American argument seems to be that the UN should've been there in the first place, helping clean up the Saddam mess.

It's really a hard question and boils down to how each of us perceives our right to meddle in other countries' business. I believe a lot of the responsibility lies in the hands of citizens of those nations, even those under dictatorships. Many countries have thrown away those shackles without a devastating war from the outside. Besides, it's easy to sit here afar from their situation and claim to know what's wrong and what's right for them.

So, I feel the US has put the rest of the world in a very ****ty place by going to war against the consensus. Now the rest of us are morally obligated to help with the Iraq situation, but are by these very same good intentions being drawn into a situation we initially wished to avoid. That's ****ed up.

If it's global leaders the US government wants to become, they sure aren't acting very responsibly.

I hope folks don't take my points as too bashing of Americans, because that really isn't my point. I recognize the States as a true remaining global superpower and -- at the risk of sounding trite -- with that power comes certain responsibility.

[joedoe]

Originally posted by Bluesman
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/13/elec04.poll.bush/
http://washingtontimes.com/national/20031013-105025-1820r.htm
http://www.msnbc.com/news/980026.asp?0cv=CB10
Posted by JoeDoe:
Don't take this as US bashing, but I find it amusing that the USA, Britain & Australia (and other members of the coalition of the willing) were happy to circumvent the UN to attack Iraq, but now they want to UN to assist in cleaning up the resulting mess? Kinda wanting both ways isn't it?

No, it is not. They were asked to take action then and it didn't and are asked to take action now and are not.
The USA as well as the other nations were wanting the UN to abide by it's resultions concerning Iraqi failue to co-operate . Had the UN threated to go in and force Iraq to comply with the UN resultions instead of france going behind the UN's back and telling Iraq that the USA would not attack , maybe the bloodshed would not have occured. No one knows what may have developed but france is no friend of the USA.
Anyone Recall that france also would not allow the USA to fly over its airspace to attack Qdaffi? The F-111 still did their job quite well but put their lives at risk due to the extreme duration of flight.

__________________

I guess my POV is that if you decide to act without the consensus of the 'body', then should you expect support from the 'body' when you have completed those actions?

If I say to you "Hey, I think I will go knock down that wall over there" and you tell me that it might not be a good idea, but I go and do it anyway, do I then have the right to ask you to help me fix up the mess? I know that is oversimplification, but it does seem to me that action was taken without agreement of the UN, and now the UN is being asked to help clean up afterwards.

[Serpent]

So it was you that f@#$ed up my wall!? :mad:

Frankly, the US has created a whole new Vietnam in Iraq and they're desperately trying to get the rest of the world to dig them out. The US stated that the UN had become redundant, that it was a toothless tiger, etc. yet now it wants UN help? Too bad. Your bed, you lie in it.

[Serpent]

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush's approval rating -- which had declined in recent weeks -- moved back up, primarily due to big gains among men and among high-income Americans, according to a new CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll.


:rolleyes:

[joedoe]

Originally posted by Serpent
So it was you that f@#$ed up my wall!? :mad:

Frankly, the US has created a whole new Vietnam in Iraq and they're desperately trying to get the rest of the world to dig them out. The US stated that the UN had become redundant, that it was a toothless tiger, etc. yet now it wants UN help? Too bad. Your bed, you lie in it.

I know you told me it was a bad idea, but I thought I would do it anyway. Wanna help me rebuild it now? :D

[Souljah]

I'm sure some people would be thrilled to hear your views

Dont mock me chingi, can you even challenge my views instead of trying to ridicule me?
Plus you cut the statement short so it reads somewhat oddly



I dont think comprimise is the way to deal with extremists

I know it sounds like its impossible, but I dont think that bombing and hoping for the best is a very good solution either.
I dont think these terrorist networks would have arisen to the extent that they have if the middle east wasnt treated as a purely economical asset, there are people there, lives that are just pushed past and shoved aside to get to the [black] gold.

[Christopher M]

Originally posted by Serpent
You tell me. I'd love to think that the American people were against Bush in a huge way.

As I said, I really don't know for sure. I'm just trying to figure out which option you're endorsing. You seem to claim one moment that he didn't even have enough support before the war to legally win the election and the next moment that America so rabidly supports him that they're blind to anything else.

[chingei]

Originally posted by Serpent


You tell me. I'd love to think .

I'm sure you would.

[Young Gotti]

It is time for the Arab and Muslim peoples to raise up, and defend themselves against their oppressors.

That is, the united states. If it was'nt for the u.s., the Arab nations would have been democratic years ago. Islam is democratic, america is not. america only follows its own nose, if there is money to be earned. So democracy is a relative matter for them, as they often overthrow democratically elected leaders of independent nations.

Hypocracy is the one word to describe u.s. politics.

[chingei]

Originally posted by Souljah


Dont mock me chingi,

Consider yourself mocked. Your weak, defeatist attitude merits nothing more.


Criminals prefer weakness to strength in their would-be victims. People like you think that if you just make yourself weak enough, they'll love you and leave you alone. Good luck being eaten, quarry.

[chen zhen]

People like you think that if you just make yourself weak enough, they'll love you and leave you alone.

sounds like Israel.

[chingei]

Originally posted by Young Gotti
It is time for the Arab and Muslim peoples to raise up, and defend themselves against their oppressors.

That is, the united states. If it was'nt for the u.s., the Arab nations would have been democratic years ago. Islam is democratic, america is not. america only follows its own nose, if there is money to be earned. So democracy is a relative matter for them, as they often overthrow democratically elected leaders of independent nations.

Hypocracy is the one word to describe u.s. politics.

Another apologist for terrorists! **** you *******. **** you. The failed culture, failed ideology, and failed leadership in the arab world (most of the muslim world, really)have led (starting, oh a couple hundred years ago!) a great many good people to suffer the effects of privation. The choice was made to go backwards instead of forward. A tragic mistake, but don't look to cast blame elsewhere after such a choice has been made.

[chingei]

Originally posted by chen zhen


sounds like Israel.

Don't you have a "bus" to catch, osama?

[chingei]

Originally posted by Serpent


:rolleyes:

So, are you a woman living in poverty, or just a hypocrite?

[Hermit]

The failed culture,
Wtf? Failed in what way? Are you saying that fast-food & consumer -culture you have there is better than thousands of years old rich heritage? Oh yeah... i forgot. It kind of failed, since soon theres no cultrure left.

failed ideology
Hehe... so be rich, **** the poor, and me me ME is the world you want to live in?

failed leadership
lol. Can't even start with this one... :D

Hmm. Didnt read all the posts, so if you are just being ironic or trolling, ignore :)

[chingei]

Originally posted by Hermit

Wtf? Failed in what way? Are you saying that -culture you have there is better than thousands of years old rich heritage?

Rocks lay in the dirt for thousands of years doing nothing. Old doesn't mean **** unless you do something with it.

[chingei]

Originally posted by Hermit


Hehe... so be rich, **** the poor, and me me ME is the world you want to live in?



Do you really think the poor are better cared for in the arab world than out of it? Do you think they have better access to education and opportunity in the arab world than out of it? While we're at it, how do you think the opportunities for women and minority groups compare in the arab world and out of it? Public safety? Public health? Freedom of religion? Of speech? Participation in government?

[chingei]

Friday, November 28, 2003 Posted: 8:29 AM EST (1517 GMT)


BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- President Bush returned to Texas early Friday after making an unannounced visit to Baghdad to spend part of Thanksgiving Day with U.S. troops -- a trip that surprised not only the soldiers but also just about everyone else in the world.

Bush touched down in Waco, Texas, around 3:45 a.m. (4:45 a.m. EST) Friday, en route to his ranch in nearby Crawford. He had arrived at Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland several hours earlier.

His visit marked the first time a U.S. president had traveled to Iraq, and concern for Bush's safety kept the trip cloaked in secrecy. Even some members of the Secret Service were kept in the dark about it.

The trip came amid persistent insurgent attacks on U.S. troops in Iraq -- and less than a week after a cargo plane was struck by a missile and forced to land at the Baghdad airport.

Air Force One, with its lights turned off for security reasons, touched down at Baghdad International Airport at 5:31 p.m. (9:31 a.m. EST) and taxied to a remote corner of the airport.

Bush then went to a hangar where about 600 members of the 1st Armored Division and the 82nd Airborne Division had gathered.

The U.S. forces had been told that L. Paul Bremer, U.S. civilian administrator in Iraq, and Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, commander of coalition forces, would be attending the dinner. Sanchez, the coalition commander, did not learn of the trip until 72 hours beforehand.

As Bremer prepared to read a presidential proclamation to the troops, he said, "Let's see if we've got anybody more senior here who can read the president's Thanksgiving speech. Is there anybody back there who's more senior than I?"

Bush then emerged, misty-eyed and wearing a U.S. Army exercise jacket, to a roaring ovation.

The stunned and elated soldiers jumped to their feet, pumped their fists in the air, roared with delight and grabbed their cameras to snap photographs.

"I was just looking for a warm meal somewhere," Bush joked, and added: "I can't think of a finer group of folks to have dinner with."

Then the commander-in-chief got serious.

"You are defending the American people from danger and we are grateful. You are defeating the terrorists here in Iraq."

The insurgents in the country are "testing our will. They hope we will run," he said.

But, he said, "we did not charge hundreds of miles into the heart of Iraq, pay a bitter cost of casualties, defeat a ruthless dictator and liberate 25 million people only to retreat before a band of thugs and assassins."

That line prompted a standing ovation.

"We will prevail. We will stay until the job is done," he said.

Afterward, Bush mingled with soldiers and temporarily joined the servers on the food line to dish out sweet potatoes and corn.

"It gave us a little extra oomph," Spc. Talitha Williams, an Arkansas native assigned to the 1st Armored Division. "Maybe we can get through this."

"It felt good," said Spc. Juan Deloera, also with the 1st Armored Division. "It really boosted my morale."

"It helps a lot knowing that the commander-in-chief himself is going to come out here and make some of the same sacrifices away from his family, away from his home, to show that he is devoted and in the same position that we are," said Pvt. Patrick McFarland of the 1st Armored Division.

"That's where your mind is, on home this time of the year, and you think about your loved ones, your friends and things like that, and then you have the leader of our country come here and share dinner with us. It's actually very special," said Sgt. Robert Dunn, a Dallas native with the 1st Armored Division.

The president also went behind closed doors for two separate meetings with U.S. commanders and four members of the Iraq Governing Council. After being on the ground two-and-a-half hours, the president left Baghdad around 8 p.m. (noon EST).

[Hermit]

Do you really think the poor are better cared for in the arab world than out of it? Do you think they have better access to education and opportunity in the arab world than out of it? While we're at it, how do you think the opportunities for women and minority groups compare in the arab world and out of it? Public safety? Public health? Freedom of religion? Of speech? Participation in government?
I didnt say that the "arab world" is any way better than the rest. Hell, i think the whole world is ****ed. My intention was simply to point out, that you are very arrogant to look down on middle-east when you have major ideology-problems down there in US. (I assume youre from US, since your profile doesn't say.)

Freedom of speech? Freedom of religion? In USA? Dont make me laugh. Do you even know what these things mean?

Have you ever red about how things are done here in europe? Or in scandinavia? It's not perfect, but a lot better... well at least for time being.


Rocks lay in the dirt for thousands of years doing nothing. Old doesn't mean **** unless you do something with it.
Sorry to burst your little bubble here, but culture is tied with history. Period. And you dont have to DO anything with it. Does everything have to be "put in use" and make profit from? That is so materialism, and so USA. And so sad.

[Bluesman]

I'm speaking only for myself as an Amreican taxpayer. I wish the rest of the world would stop taking all the billions of our money each year. I wish the UN building was in france and let them pay for what it costs to run it and pay half of the dues. I wish that my Grandfather had not had to go to France to fight the Germans. I wish that my father had not spilled his blood on Saipan, leaving him without the full use of his right arm. Saipan had hand to hand combat where he told me that he beat to death two Japanese with his M1 Garand one night. And he also fought on Okinawa where the battle was so bad that he would not speak of it till the year he died. Everytime I would ask him about it, he would put his hands on his face and say it was bad. I thought that it was important that he speak of it. He finally did.
Out of 330 men, only 13 lived through both battles. He was in E company of the 105th, 27th Army ,along with D company, they took the worst of it. I wish that the rest of the world would be at least thankful for the USA.
OK my rant is over.
DareDevil,
I truly respect your views. You may differ, that's always ok, but you also show compassion. You also try to understand the other person's viewpoint which is rare for a vocal few on here.We Americans do some things in our own interest that creates bad things in other countries. That is fair to point them out. A lot of good is also done too. It does not make up for the bad. The end result never makes up for the method used.


Originally posted by Daredevil



Yeah, that's the thing that bugs me, personally.

Of course, it's not an easy situation. In some ways, it's our responsibility (as fellow humans and ones living in relative luxury) to help there. In some ways I like to think "the Americans started it, let them finish it", but the thought of American soldiers dying there to keep a tenous order doesn't appeal to me either.

Of course, the American argument seems to be that the UN should've been there in the first place, helping clean up the Saddam mess.

It's really a hard question and boils down to how each of us perceives our right to meddle in other countries' business. I believe a lot of the responsibility lies in the hands of citizens of those nations, even those under dictatorships. Many countries have thrown away those shackles without a devastating war from the outside. Besides, it's easy to sit here afar from their situation and claim to know what's wrong and what's right for them.

So, I feel the US has put the rest of the world in a very ****ty place by going to war against the consensus. Now the rest of us are morally obligated to help with the Iraq situation, but are by these very same good intentions being drawn into a situation we initially wished to avoid. That's ****ed up.

If it's global leaders the US government wants to become, they sure aren't acting very responsibly.

I hope folks don't take my points as too bashing of Americans, because that really isn't my point. I recognize the States as a true remaining global superpower and -- at the risk of sounding trite -- with that power comes certain responsibility.

[chingei]

Originally posted by Hermit


Freedom of speech? Freedom of religion? In USA? Dont make me laugh. Do you even know what these things mean?

Have you ever red about how things are done here in europe? Or in scandinavia? It's not perfect, but a lot better... well at least for time being.


Sorry to burst your little bubble here, but culture is tied with history. Period. And you dont have to DO anything with it. Does everything have to be "put in use" and make profit from? That is so materialism, and so USA. And so sad.

Go back to school kid. You have officially revealed yourself as too ignorant for consideration.

[chen zhen]

The failed culture

so a colonial nation less than 200 years old is richer in culture than the middle east, with its history going back over 5000 years?tell me in which ways.


The failed ideology

which ideology are we talking about? pan-arabism? nasserism? monarchism? islamism? theres too many to mention. yes, some of these failed. but american ideology has failed over 70 years ago, but it still lives on!


Do you really think the poor are better cared for in the arab world than out of it? Do you think they have better access to education and opportunity in the arab world than out of it? While we're at it, how do you think the opportunities for women and minority groups compare in the arab world and out of it? Public safety? Public health? Freedom of religion? Of speech? Participation in government?

according to recent statistics theres 35 million poor people in the US, including 14 million children. over 2 million people are in jail at this moment in the us, which includes over 50% blacks, hispanics, asians, and other minority groups. about 12% of all black males in the US is locked up at this moment.
about 100 billion pounds of food is wasted every year in the US, an amount estimated to be able to feed 700 million people in the developing world.
freedom of speech and ideology has also been cut down in the US since sept. 11, with the so-called patriotic laws.
participation in government in the US can really only be realised if you have enough wealth and recognition in the business world. i dont think the first ghetto-child youll find will have any chance to run for president.
american public health as an example? i must laugh. if u dont have money to pay the doctor, u can go screw yourself. and a health insurance is so expensive that its impossible for the beforementioned poor people to have any gain of it.
freedom of press? did u ever watch Fox News? LOL!!! even Iraqi tv was less biased.

i can go on and on, but it bores me. im glad i live in a real democracy and not a crooked one.

[Hermit]

Originally posted by chingei


Go back to school kid. You have officially revealed yourself as too ignorant for consideration.
Dont have to. I am in one. Though it probably is of higer degree than you will ever be in. Still id like to hear just what made me "too ignorant for consideration", I love intellectual debates :rolleyes:

[Hermit]

Thanks chen zhen.
Most of the things i wanted to say, but was too lazy to type :)

[Bluesman]

Bill Clinton was poor and pulled himself up by his bootstraps with no one giving him a handout. I respect him for that, not his politics.
There have been many who have been governors that were just farm workers, Joe Foss is one. Bob Dole grew up on a farm and went on to become the highest ranking Senator and ran for president. Ronald Reagen was the grandson of a poor Irishman.
So many times have people from other countries told me how they can not believe how we do not take advantage of what we have here. They tell me how they came here because of how great this country is. Are we perfect? Not by a long shot.

[chen zhen]

where did chingei go? he was here a minute ago..:D

scared lil ****er

[Hermit]

Originally posted by Bluesman
Bill Clinton was poor and pulled himself up by his bootstraps with no one giving him a handout. I respect him for that, not his politics.
There have been many who have been governors that were just farm workers, Joe Foss is one. Bob Dole grew up on a farm and went on to become the highest ranking Senator and ran for president. Ronald Reagen was the grandson of a poor Irishman.


You probably know how many political parties there are in USA, but guess what, most people there dont. They think its just the big two. Can you tell my why is that? Is it because the other parties are worse? Or is it because they don't have the money to advertise? Is it because they have bad ideas? Or is it because they never get to participate and tell their views in debates shown in media? And you talk about democracy :(

[Bluesman]

Posted by Chen zhen

according to recent statistics theres 35 million poor people in the US, including 14 million children. over 2 million people are in jail at this moment in the us, which includes over 50% blacks, hispanics, asians, and other minority groups

I think our poor would be rich in some countries. TVs, cars,etc. If you are poor, the goverment hands out welfare checks, free health care and housing. Maybe that is why we have "poor" people.

Whenever you have freedom, you have people that abuse it. They are called criminals. That is what jails are for. They can earn a two year post high school degree in skilled trades or earn their high school degree or continue it. Drug abuse is the cause of over half our crimes. Either from selling , using or stealing to pay for it. That is worthy of OT by itself. Also the prisoners have to be treated with respect or they can sue. They can not have vulgar or abusive language directed to them, they have to have clean colthes, good food, warm housing, free health care including dental. In short it is not as bad as you may think. Many are repeat offenders. Maybe if it was worse they would not be back.

[Bluesman]

Originally posted by Hermit


You probably know how many political parties there are in USA, but guess what, most people there dont. They think its just the big two. Can you tell my why is that? Is it because the other parties are worse? Or is it because they don't have the money to advertise? Is it because they have bad ideas? Or is it because they never get to participate and tell their views in debates shown in media? And you talk about democracy :(

If you can not make it in the big two then you go to one of the other ones.
You know what we have here that Russia doesn't? The communist party. What Germany doesn't ? The American Nazi Party. We also have the socialist party, the green party and my favorite, the all night party :D

[Hermit]

Originally posted by Bluesman


If you can not make it in the big two then you go to one of the other ones.
You know what we have here that Russia doesn't? The communist party. What Germany doesn't ? The American Nazi Party. We also have the socialist party, the green party and my favorite, the all night party :D

Yeah i know. But i meant it from the voters point of view. They dont.

[chingei]

Originally posted by Hermit

Dont have to. I am in one. Though it probably is of higer degree than you will ever be in.

Yep. Kindergarden has come a long way...

[chingei]

Originally posted by chen zhen
where did chingei go? he was here a minute ago..:D

scared lil ****er

Oh, excuse me for not hanging on your every word "sir", but I had to go eat a heapin' plate of left over turkey (with a side of natto and rice). Excuse me as well for not taking too seriously the words of a clown whose views of the US begin and end with an obsession with pretending to be African American. Why don't you skip on down to the local comic book shop? The next issue of 'Hateamerica Comic" where you get all your political views may be ready.

[NYerRoman]

Right on!
I am happy, actually estatic, to see people finally writing about this and making others wake up to the biggest fraud and threat to American democracy.

I feel less isolated and alone.
Thank you templefist.

[jun_erh]

young gotti- nice parody.


hermit chen zen- no one does that politically correct stuff anymore. that was the 90's get with the times.

[Hermit]

hermit chen zen- no one does that politically correct stuff anymore. that was the 90's get with the times.
Yeah, i know. I just like to fight the current, it keeps my mind in shape :p

[Souljah]

Consider yourself mocked. Your weak, defeatist attitude merits nothing more.

Criminals prefer weakness to strength in their would-be victims. People like you think that if you just make yourself weak enough, they'll love you and leave you alone. Good luck being eaten, quarry.

Thanks for the insight, not quite right though. But good one still.

[chen zhen]

Oh, excuse me for not hanging on your every word "sir", but I had to go eat a heapin' plate of left over turkey (with a side of natto and rice).

you think i give a f*ck what youre eating? did you remember to be thankful to the 10000 Iraqi civilians who sacrificed their lifes just so you could be 100% sure no-one would send you an anthrax letter, or drive in your car a little cheaper than you used to.



Excuse me as well for not taking too seriously the words of a clown whose views of the US begin and end with an obsession with pretending to be African American.

what? in which ways did i pretend to be african-american in that text?that is irrelevant and stupid to say.
i brought forward the issues of minorities in the US because u said that racism is a bigger problem in the arab world. to reflect your standpoint. but can you give any examples of more radical racism in arab countries than in the US? please do, back up what you say.
i wont even mention that you called me a clown, thats just idiotic.



Why don't you skip on down to the local comic book shop? The next issue of 'Hateamerica Comic" where you get all your political views may be ready.

dont expect me to laugh at that idiocy. try instead to make some points against what i said, that will make a real discussion more serious, instead of the usual "uuhh..um.. you b@stard!" kinda answer.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Christopher M


As I said, I really don't know for sure. I'm just trying to figure out which option you're endorsing. You seem to claim one moment that he didn't even have enough support before the war to legally win the election and the next moment that America so rabidly supports him that they're blind to anything else.

The two aren't mutually exclusive. Against the vote he got into power anyway and the American MTV attention span means that that seems long forgotten and now everyone there seems to be backing Bush and his campaign of Middle Eastern Crusades. 9/11 was the best thing that could have happened to Bush. Wag the dog?

[chingei]

Originally posted by Serpent

Against the vote he got into power anyway and the American MTV attention span means that that seems long forgotten


oy, this again. Perhaps it is you who has 'forgotten' how the US electoral system works, dope.:rolleyes:


Forgotten? How about gotten over?

[chingei]

Originally posted by chen zhen


? in which ways did i pretend to be african-american in that text?that is irrelevant and stupid to say.


Your very well established patterns of behavior and bias are entirely relevant to the interpretation of your remarks, clown.