wing lam vids...

[EddyGman]

I am interested in getting more information on the vids that Wing Lam offers. Particularly, I'd like to SEE some performance from him, or from the products they are offering. I've searched the site, but come up with nothing.

Anyone out there have any short clips or digitized video of what these things contain or Sifu Lam Something like a a couple of shorter clips would be great from either hung gar or shaolin performances (or best: of both...). I.e. something similar to what martialartsmart does for some of their vids, as well as other vendors and instructors.

And yes, I know there is an introductory vid, but this usually a big red flag in my book. When someone tries to sell you for a 'sample' or a catalog, I question how much they belive in the merits of what they are selling.

My intent is simple: I am looking to compare/contrast overall performance of Wing Lam with other practitioners I have seen, and determine if the video series is worth getting. Test drive before you buy!


Thanks in advance!

EG

[illusionfist]

Well, I've actually seen the sampler video that Wing Lam puts out and I have to say that it's pretty decent. If you are worried about them not standing behind their product, well I would suggest you actually watch the sampler video because you get an overall background of Wing Lam himself and the company and the reason why they do it.

As for the clips, there are clips of every single video he has on that tape. So for comparison purposes, i'd say it would do you some good.

Peace :D

[ngokfei]

Don't be so cheap. Spend the what $20.

My god, so many cheapsters today who want something for nothing.

personally have spent thousands in the last 15 years for various intersts.

If you aint' willing to spend $20 then how serious would it be for you to spend a $1000



:eek:

[Shaolinlueb]

i have the introduction to hung gfar tape and the lau gar form.... the 2nd hunggar tape. they show pretty good instruction and breakdown. good for practicing the form if you need to. if you want to learn the form from a vidoe, its all and good. i did but just for fun, i dont intend on performing it. but the videos are good.

[Brithlor]

Why spend 1000 dollars on junk?

It seems pretty clear why the original poster is asking...

[EddyGman]

Originally posted by ngokfei
Don't be so cheap. Spend the what $20.

My god, so many cheapsters today who want something for nothing.

personally have spent thousands in the last 15 years for various intersts.

If you aint' willing to spend $20 then how serious would it be for you to spend a $1000



:eek:

Perhaps you'd like to buy it for me? You obviously don't think $20 is anything, especially since you seem to not mind spending 'thousands' in the last 15 years for your 'intersts'...

so if you'd like to offer. :)

Hmmm... How much easier just to make a short clip on what you are offering...

Your assertion is that I am being 'cheap'. I dunno about you, but buying something that someone says is great, and not being able to see what it is before hand doesn't seem like the smartest thing to me.

Moreover, I HAVE seen many 'professionally produced' series of vids that are, basically, crappy.

Additionally, $20 is almost ONE of the tapes that I would get in a $1000 series AND would just be a duplication of materials that I would get anyway.

Lastly, buying something, just because it's under $20 is entirely not a reason to do so. Is this not basically an ADD for the videos that they are producing?

Ask yourself this question: why should I spend $20 for something that, in essense, I WOULD get for FREE if I came into the studio? If I were to study with someone in person, would I not be able to go to their school, see what they do, participate in their classes (more or less, even if it is by observation)?

By your assertion, if I didn't just foot over $100+ for a months worth of tuition at a school, just because YOU or anyone else for that matter thought it was great, I am cheap? This IS what you are explicitly stating... no?

AFAIK, what my original post was is that I would be able to see a quick sampler (short... I mean, a vid clip... not a video, or a series, etc., and not even a complete form... just a clip... you know, like there are of MANY OTHER PRACTITIONERS out there...) of him either doing Hung gar, shaolin, etc.

For a Technologically saavy sort of operation, this shouldn't be a hard request.

'Pay before you look' is a big red flag that can dup some people, and, with statements like this:

"personally have spent thousands in the last 15 years for various intersts."

Illusrate why some people end up spending thousands of $$$ for nothing productive.

I frankly am not that sort of person. I have not seen an educated response that invalidates my original request, or that manages to substantiate that I was at all inappropriate.

The only thing you have supported, in my view, is the ancedotal proverb that 'a fool and his money are easily parted.'

Thanks others for your more productive responses.

EG

[ngokfei]

Eddy

wow so much to say about nothing.

I buy a movie by reading the cover, I don't like it can I return it?

I see a box of cookies with a good package picture, I eat it and think its taste like s..t, can I take it back to the store?

Research is your best bet and listening to others opinions and experiences are all we had in the past when choosing a teacher. Most of my instructors didn't let us watch a class, a very modern thing that has gotten out of hand in my opinion. If I started teaching again I wouldn't let visitors and would probably charge for a demo (just like Tiger Kimof the Bronx) and we all know out of the many visitors to a school may 1 in 10 will join. Not because the school is bad just that there are alot of window shoppers out there with no intention to join. In reality most visitors are practicing MA from other schools just "spying", as I like to say.

$20 is $20 and a small investment to make. Hell I don't know you buy your own dam tape (cheap, cheap, cheap).

Would be alot of fun to ask a Hooker for a sample of the product or even just a short vid clip (>>>>>>>

good luck in your joruney

[EddyGman]

Originally posted by ngokfei
Eddy

wow so much to say about nothing.

??? Your point is? Oh, that's right. There IS no point to what you are saying. Mainly opinion. You're entitled, and that's fine.



I buy a movie by reading the cover, I don't like it can I return it?

I see a box of cookies with a good package picture, I eat it and think its taste like s..t, can I take it back to the store?

Hmmmm, well, if you make your decisions that way, that's fine by me. However, that's not how I work.

FYI: MANY people who are trying to sell something who HAVE a desire to sell their product AND believe in the merit of their product DO demo their stuff out.

It is usually those who have something to hide (i.e. their product sucks) that will NOT let you see what they do and want to have cash in hand before they do.

This is pretty pointless, as I get the picture that perhaps you are an impulsive shopper? I'm not. I rent a movie, read reviews, see clips, etc. and decide if it is worth it. A bag of cookies is what... $2? If they offered to send me their tape if I pay shipping, that'd work.

My point is that I've seen lots of people that are hung gar or shaolin or whatever practitioners. The fact that everyone SAYS they're great doesn't mean that they are. Sure, they may do their 'art' well, but do they know what they are doing? Are they good martial artists? Do their skills demonstrate a larger knowledge base, especially of more subtle principles?

Certainly, you would agree that just by seeing someone 'do what they do', you can tell a LOT about what they do and what they know.


Research is your best bet and listening to others opinions and experiences are all we had in the past when choosing a teacher.

Wow, you concede then that research is the best bet? Why... in fact... this is the INTENT of this request. Funny that NO ONE (including yourself...) seems to having anything but testimonials.


Most of my instructors didn't let us watch a class, a very modern thing that has gotten out of hand in my opinion. If I started teaching again I wouldn't let visitors and would probably charge for a demo (just like Tiger Kimof the Bronx) and we all know out of the many visitors to a school may 1 in 10 will join. Not because the school is bad just that there are alot of window shoppers out there with no intention to join. In reality most visitors are practicing MA from other schools just "spying", as I like to say.

So... what's your point here? What I can figure out is:

The people you deal with are either a) EXCEEDINGLY paranoid or b) exceedingly arrogant or c) both.

The reality is that, in the US, MOST people don't really CARE what you are doing, you're just doing something from another MA school.

We entertained people at our school a TON, and many from other martial arts schools around town. Most liked to see something different. Some wanted to argue. MOST couldn't relate to what we were doing. Many became new students b/c they needed to see either see that studying with us offered something to them. MANY others went on their way.

At first, I couldn't believe that my sifu was as open with these people or in demos with materials that we teach. Then I started to realize that unless someone actually BELIEVED in what they are doing, they don't pay much attention to it. Did it affect what they did? Nope. Not from the people I knew who were studying other systems, or were teachers of other systems, etc.

If you think people are going to sit around and learn all your secrets, I'm afraid you think of yourself more that most of them will.

Even if they do sit around and watch you, they are not going to get anything out of a demo, or just watching a class, or whatnot unless they are really skilled or pretty astute students. And, if they are, these are the people I WANT in my classes, b/c they are the funnest kind to have around.

Moreover, If they ARE stealing your materials by vid taping your entire forms, for instance, WITHOUT your permission or compensation then this is a real problem. We/I never allow vid taping or pictures in class/demos. If you are allowing pictures/video to be taken in these events, you are being just stupid. However, If you are assuming that if they watch a class they are getting all your materials, you are being naive.

I mean, really. I have students of 10 years who admit that each time they cover XYZ, they are finally getting it, or after covering it with our sifu, me, and someone else, it is finally becoming clear.

Do you really think that a person coming in 1, 2, 5 times is going to be able to do that?!?! Sheesh. You give people more credit than my experience does.

Keep in mind: Wing Lam *IS* selling his product, openly states that he/his Co. is interested in teaching to wide audiences AND this product is publicly available. I'm not asking for anything hidden or secret, just if there are samples of what he teaches in vid form, so some public demonstration, or something.

Gee, speaking of HG only, I've seen multiple vids of some pretty learned masters... they don't seem to be too worried about this?



$20 is $20 and a small investment to make. Hell I don't know you buy your own dam tape (cheap, cheap, cheap).

:confused: another fantastic assumpton: that this is an investment. I don't know this, do I? Lots of assumptions about me, but I still am not convinced that I am requesting anything inappropriate.

----------------------
For everyone else:

So, I take it there is no digitized vid out there of wing lam performing, or some of his students? Anything from a competition, public demo, or whatnot? I've seen other HG and SL practitioners out there. Some are impressive, others are... well... not. I'd still like to see if his approach is worth investing in. Thnx!

EG

[WanderingMonk]

No, there are not publicly available video clips that I know of. But, there is an alternative. Go to www.thekwoon.com and download some of the movies there.

The many of the guys behind the kwoon movies are Sifu Wing Lam's students. They showcase some of their skills in their independent movies, hence the motto "bad acting, good kung-fu". If you think his students displayed enough skills, then you might consider investigating further. If not, no need to waste time agruing on a MA board any further.

wm

[EddyGman]

Originally posted by WanderingMonk
No, there are not publicly available video clips that I know of. But, there is an alternative. Go to www.thekwoon.com and download some of the movies there.

The many of the guys behind the kwoon movies are Sifu Wing Lam's students. They showcase some of their skills in their independent movies, hence the motto "bad acting, good kung-fu". If you think his students displayed enough skills, then you might consider investigating further. If not, no need to waste time agruing on a MA board any further.

wm

Thanks! I've been to the site, and actually quite enjoyed it.

Oh, and Eric, thanks for the good discussion! I hope it didn't ruffle your feathers too much.

EG

[ngokfei]

Eddygman

no ruffled feathers here.

Yep we have different views on how to gain knowledge. I happen to of had to deal with the "Old World" schools. Strongly believe if individuals are giving away so much for "FREE" then its not worth that much in the first place. And also a flashy demo means nothing to me, knowledge of technique and principles is true MA.

Like I said good luck in your research.

[WanderingMonk]

Here's a run down of the Sifu Wing Lam's video instruction format. This was posted by Onassis in the www.thekwoon.com. I saw this post a while back and it took a while for me to track it down.

You can find the thread here
http://www.thekwoon.com/cgi-bin/wwwboard/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=1;t=248

wm

===== Onassis wrote: =============

I was an instructor for Lam Sifu and also his Shipping manager for Wing Lam Enterprises.

I can say for certain that the videos that HE does personally are allot better and that he was/is a pioneer in the field.

In the early 80's nobody but him offered as much material on any one style as he did. Ala Northern Shaolin and Hung Gar.

His format is simple,
1, show the form full speed
2. Then do about 10 moves, repeat the moves in this section 3 times. Once for background, once for hand placement and lastly for foot placement. Then the applications are done for that section
3. Repeat with subsequent sections untill the finish of the form.
4. Lastly follow with a slow mo of the entire set again.

- you can't ask for more than that.

. . .
====

[phoenix-eye]

I'll endorse Wing Lam's vids wholeheartedly, the format is as stated by wandering monk and is excellent for learning. You will, need correction from a sifu at some point as many small omissions and minor errors on your part will undoubtedly occur. I know from experience.......

My suggestion is to pick the style that you like and a beginner's form for $40. At least you will be investing in something of value that you can at least learn something from. You will find it impossible to learn anything substantive from a sampler tape.

You can then decide if the format works for you and is worth spending more on. If not, then at least you can persevere with the one tape and derive maximum value from it.

Only my 2 quid.....

Cheers
PE

[GeneChing]

...Wing Lam is my sifu and I worked on those videos so of course I'll say they're great.

As for a sample of his kung fu, the only thing that we have is on Shaolin Kung Fu 2000 (http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/vidshaolkun2.html), which is more than your $20 investment, but at least you'll get a few other masters too. Otherwise, why don't you just go their site and ask them instead of asking here? I'm sure they'll send you a free catalog.

[cha kuen]

I have seen some of his videos and they are alright. Nothing extraordinary but how many times do you see great stuff on tape?