Chin Na ground fighting book

[PHILBERT]

I remember last week reading a thread somewhere about a book about Chin Na and ground fighting written by studnets of Dr Yang, Jwing-Ming. I was on Amazon before and found this book

Chin Na in Ground Fighting: Principles, Theory and Submission Holds for All Martial Styles (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1886969663/qid=1070254305/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/002-1314254-0504009?v=glance&s=books)

While Dr Yang, Jwing-Ming is not listed as an author, his company, YMAA Publications is listed as the publisher. It was published in 2003, and I remember some people on the forum here asking about it.

I have seen this book too btw at the local martial arts shop, though I didn't pick it up and look at it, but I think I am gonna go check it out when I get around to it. Has anyone here read it? What is your opinion of it?

[Cung-Fu]

I saw it at my local Barnes and Noble. Didn't pick it up though.

I think when it comes to ground fighting BJJ is probably more specialized.

I will let you know next time I go to B&N.

[Meat Shake]

Bought it a while ago. Great book. Lots of interesting submissions, although it wouldnt be that good if you have no ground fighting experience. Doesnt teach the flow of things quite the way BJJ does.
Excellent break downs of mechanical advantage, why certain positionings work, ect.
Great pressure point diagrams and descriptions as well.

[Oso]

naw, no way...everyone know kung fu ain't got no ground game.











































.

[Stranger]

In Liang Shou-yu's book on Fastwrestling, he states that the groundfighting chapter is based on Judo. I have not yet seen the book mentioned in this thread, but I wonder if it just an expansion on this idea of blending judo and Chin Na.

[truewrestler]

I noticed that book at the store this past weekend but didn't take a look at it.

[PHILBERT]

*burp* (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0870409247/qid=1070298428//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i0_xgl14/102-5462252-5861740?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)

[Oso]

but since judo comes from jujitsu and jujitsu comes from kung fu.....

[Meat Shake]

Whatever the case may be, It has a lot of nice post throw standing controls, which is what Ive been looking for. I like to be able to tie people up once they hit the ground. :)
Jesus Im sick today... :(

[shaolinarab]

Originally posted by PHILBERT


philbert,

that's actually one of the first kung fu books i ever came across in my library nearly 10 years ago. from what i remember it was very interesting. the style was similar to bjj in that both players seek to fight on the ground. in the case of the kung fu style, most of the techniques shown were such that no matter if the attacker punched or kicked, the defender would usually do some sort of dropkick or leg trapping technique that would bring the attacker to the ground. pretty cool stuff, in addition to the section on iron shin training and stuff. i think i will try to find it in my library again :)

[Skummer]

It just so happens that I wrote a mini-review of this book a while back. It can be found here...

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6439

[ngokfei]

great book. As of date really nothing has come out of china specifically on a ground fighting styles besides Day Tong and Fukien Dog Boxing but again they emphasize take downs and striking and not really submissions.

Come from eagle claw and even though we have alot of qin na and take downs the submissions on the ground are very limited.

Studdied Jiu Jitsu, Judo, Swai Jiao and wrestling to fill in this gap.

[David Jamieson]

Yang Jwing Ming is also notably a translator of a great deal of chinese martial arts literature.

So, not all the books he has out are styles he himself does. But rather it is his greatest contribution that he is presenting these materials for the non-chinese speaking world.

I am uncertain of which style Yang has most of, but I think it is White crane style that he himself does as well as Shaolin.

cheers

[PHILBERT]

Kung Lek, as well as Taiji. I think his 3 are Taiji, Crane and Long Fist. His books on Bagua and Hsing-I were with other people's help. Great books none the less from what little I read of each, but he had other instructors help with the writing.

[No_Know]

I would think you need a reference. I would have said Shaolin Chin-Na too (a book and Analysis of Shao Lin Chin Na (a book)).

SevenStar I wonder what you thought to think it's not necessarily a good thing relating to ground fighting.

I do not consider the material in the book Shao Lin Chin Na to be a style itself. I thought of it as a least common denominator. Because not all fall at jointlocks (which unspokenly includes momentum, redirection, positioning, foundation (not merely stance), needing the rightmoment--reading the adversary).

One called Void Boxing, you do not need a system nor style to study for groundfighting with JKD and Wing Chun. Wing Chun moves of the body with targeting of wrists and limbs at close to joints with punches or palm strikes should interfere with some lloimb grabs. Footwork training with being pushed from different angles should help you stay up more-so than without.

For on your back you keep Wing Chun center line theory. When on your back without arms. You might use wiggle. Use sacks filled-ish or get someone to keep you down to train wiggle (Hips high, knees higher could be a direction.

With whomever you work be aware that the effort shifts with weight and use of weight. Also there is a shifting order to tactics as some know the standard progressions and wait to intercede.

Wing Chun footwork (perhaps stance if you are well practiced) to keep up.

JKD put yourself in awkward on the ground position them figure for yourself a way out.

Add rolling tumbling and kip (golden? carp) and (Black Dragon Coils Around Pillar) and sit on the ground and get-up fast away from an object representing opponent (like sit on the floor toss a raquetball/basketball...(bouncy ball) at a wall (far away at first as you get quicker sit/lay closer to the wall) The ball comming back is the person comming to you. if you are standing when the ball gets back to you, they just tried to tackle~ you again~. when you come up raise a knee or lift a leg to interrupt the supposed rush should you get back to your feet/knees~.

[Ren Blade]

Master Yang Jwing Ming's core style is the Southern White Crane. Northern Long Fist and Yang Tai Chi compliments his Crane.

Chin Na is only one part of a whole Chinese Martial Art style. Chin Na is transferable to the ground. Principles, concepts and understanding is how one will be able to fight if fallen to the ground with their opponent.

Jujutsu came from Chin Na.

in the Yuan dynasty, in the year 1312 A.D., the monk Da Zhi came to the Shaolin Temple from Japan. After he studied Shaolin martial arts (bare hands and staff) for nearly 13 years (1324 A.D.), he returned to Japan and spread Shaolin Gongfu to Japanese martial arts society. Later, in 1335 A.D. another Buddhist monk named Shao Yuan came to Shaolin from Japan. He mastered calligraphy, painting, Chan theory (i.e., Ren), and Shaolin Gongfu during his stay. He returned to Japan in 1347 A.D., and was considered and regarded a ¡§Country Spirit¡¨ by the Japanese people. This confirms that Shaolin martial techniques were imported into Japan for at least seven hundred years. (http://www.ymaaschool.com/articles/tradition/stories/110803b.php)

[lkfmdc]

well, if it's in a YJM book, it MUST be true :rolleyes:

[WanderingMonk]

Coach Ross deseve a 3 out 10 for that troll post.

[lkfmdc]

Dude, first off, it is an accepted practice that if you want to "confirm" something, you need more than just some guy's say so in a book with no references

Where did Yang get this info from? Any historical documents to back up the claim? Any other sources we can refer to?

Additionally, Yang is a man who printed a "history" based upon a TV Soap Opera in the past, ie he has a spotted track record

[WanderingMonk]

Originally posted by lkfmdc
[B]Dude, first off, it is an accepted practice that if you want to "confirm" something, you need more than just some guy's say so in a book with no references


True. But in his article, he specifically wrote the account about the Japanese monk is from "Shaolin Temple Record". Now, how would you want to cite this source since it is not published by a publisher house and probably is Shaolin temple's own record? Well, if you are a historian and you are writing a biography of Washington, and somehow got Washingtons diary (if he kept one), could you just cite you got it from Washington's diary, or do you have to jump through a lot of hoops?

second, all he wrote was that some japanese monk did visit Shaolin and study there and return to Japan. This is not uncommon in those days and there were many cultural exchanges that are recorded. I don't have any account I can give you off hand, but he is not making some extrordinary claim.

All he wrote was a Japanese monk studied some Chinese MA went back to Japan. There's an implication that CMA might have influenced JMA, but he made no concerete assertion, but nor can you prove it might not influence Japanese arts in those day, hence it is a wash.
One of those



Where did Yang get this info from? Any historical documents to back up the claim? Any other sources we can refer to?


I'll do some digging and see if I can come up with something.



Additionally, Yang is a man who printed a "history" based upon a TV Soap Opera in the past, ie he has a spotted track record

That's new, but I also remember a Mr. Ross cited one Dr. Yang in one of Mr. Ross's article on Chinese kung-fu. Does this implied Mr. Ross was relying on inaccurate information or inaccurate source? What have the world comes to?

wm

[lkfmdc]

My view on Yang Jwing Ming is that he should stick to what he knows. What he knows he knows well. But he always over steps himself and at times outright steals or insults other lineages and methods...

For his Hsing Yi book, he creatively "borrowed" things from a well know Taiwan based Hsing Yi teacher's book. Without his permission and without citing him. I guess Yang figured since the original was in Chinese and he had translated it, no big deal, except one that person's students is HERE in the US and was PIZZ-eD off!!!!

Yang has very good Fukien White Crane, why he thinks that also makes him an expert on Tibetan White Crane is anyone's guess. He personally told me he was going to put out a book on Tibetan White Crane once. I thought that was pretty crazy. Then some friends of his told him it was probably not a good idea to mess with some members of the Pak Hok Athletic Association

Yang settled on putting some "info" on Tibetan White Crane in his Fukien White Crane book. He made our grandmaster a Shaolin monk and had him living in Shaolin about 100 years before he was born.

I happened to see Sifu Yang after the book was published and I asked him directly, where did you get that stuff, it is ALL incorrect. He rattled off something in Mandarin that I didn't recognize so I asked him what that was. He told me it was a TV Soap Opera he used to watch in Taiwan!!!! No, I am NOT kidding you...

I asked him if he thought that a TV Soap Opera might not be the best source of "facts" and he just starred at me...

So, I respect much of his stuff, he's a great martial artist. But some of his books are really an issue in our community

[WanderingMonk]

Originally posted by lkfmdc


So, I respect much of his stuff, he's a great martial artist. But some of his books are really an issue in our community [/B]

I certainly hope Dr. Yang know that Tibetan Crane and Fujian Crane are not related, but I was not privy to the conversation, so I am not going to comment.

This Japanese monks account will be a lot easier to clear up if their monk names in kanji/chinese character are posted.

wm

[lkfmdc]

on one level I think he understands they are different but he seems to also fall for the old "everything is Shaolin" nonsense ....