Shaolin/Naihanchi Similarities

[Vash]

Just a thought in passing . . .

In the Shaolin Special (2003), the was a "twisting power" exercise demonstrated. I can't think of the name off-hand, and I'm at school, away from my copy. Anyway, the hand positioning and side strike is very similar to the Isshinryu version of the twisting strike in Naihanchi kata, and, from a few of the videos of Shorinryu Naihanchi (and other Naihanchi kata influenced by Motobu Choki) the twist and strike are almost identical.

Any thoughts on this?

[Chinwoo-er]

I have thought of a similar idea between karate&jujistu and CMA. Not exactly the same question as you. But some simple answers as grounds for dicussion.

(1) The most obvious one: There is only a certain number of ways we can use our bodies. Afterall, all martial arts comes from 4 limbs and the things they are connected to. So similarity isn't hard to spot.

(2) Considering Shuri-te was influenced by Northern styles (Shaolin is basically shouting itself out here) , similarities there isn't hard to understand.

(3) My personal experience with Naihaichi (Shorinryu) seems to lead me to feel that it has very strong Chin-Na feel to it. Although definately having an okinawan flavour, the hand-to-hand grappling aspect of it feels more chinese to me than most other katas of karate.

[SevenStar]

Jujutsu? AFAIK, there's no concrete evidence that proves jujutsu came from China.

[Vash]

Originally posted by Chinwoo-er
I have thought of a similar idea between karate&jujistu and CMA. Not exactly the same question as you. But some simple answers as grounds for dicussion.

(1) The most obvious one: There is only a certain number of ways we can use our bodies. Afterall, all martial arts comes from 4 limbs and the things they are connected to. So similarity isn't hard to spot.



Indeed. But, as the OMA were influenced by CMA, I think drawing parallels here might help improve our understanding of kata applications in OMA.



(2) Considering Shuri-te was influenced by Northern styles (Shaolin is basically shouting itself out here) , similarities there isn't hard to understand.


*thumps forehead with palm-heel strike*

I, for some reason, always said "Shorinryu" = "Southern Shaolin."
Never considered Northern influences, despite many similarities.
But, since I have exactly 0 experience in the CMA, I'm not too disappointed in myself.



(3) My personal experience with Naihaichi (Shorinryu) seems to lead me to feel that it has very strong Chin-Na feel to it. Although definately having an okinawan flavour, the hand-to-hand grappling aspect of it feels more chinese to me than most other katas of karate.

That, I wouldn't know. Only knowledge I have of kung fu comes from reading. But, Naihanchi is one of my preferred forms, along with Chinto, as I like the controlling aspects along with rapid body shifts.

[X_plosion]

In Tang Soo Do, part of the stories you hear about Naihanchin is that before the Koreans adopted the form, the Okinawans got it from the Chinese. That could be the connection.

For what it's worth, some stories also go around the Tang Soo Do circles that the Northern Shaolin temple had a form similar to Naihanchin. I haven't seen this reputed form though, yet.

[Chinwoo-er]

7*, I never said anything about roots. I was saying I have made similar comparisons.

But if you really, Really, REALLY want to get argumentative, the fact that Tsu Fu went to Japan with 1000 others during the Qin dynasty could mean that they brought the martial arts of that time, known as "Shoubo" (Hand combat/wrestling) to japan. Hence, giving foundation to Jujitsu. Of course, that theory is really far fetched. But hey, not impossible completely.

Vash, to my understanding, Naha-te was influenced more by southern arts and Shuri-te was influenced more by northern arts. Comparatively speaking, Shuri-te stances are higher, movements are a little more mobile, etc. As opposed to Naha-te styles that places more emphasis on lower body foundation.

I can't seem to pinpoint the style that Naihaichi came from. Probably because Naihaichi was developed in Okinawa so long ago. As I said before, there is a distinct OMA taste to Naihaichi. Horse-stance leg sweeps and the whole kata moving sideways without turning, etc isn't very common in Northern CMA.