long pole training

[Falcor]

Me and my brother have the opportunity to get some long, 10 foot long poles of Chinese waxwood or rattan for a good price. It'll be tapered at one end (a rat-tail staff) so it's ideal for spear training I think.

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone knows of any good refernces for long pole training? I know that Chen TaiJi does it, and have seen Hsing I versions of the exercise, but they were in passing and i do not have them for reference. I remember reading about pole training in teh Journal of Asian Martial Arts a while back - maybe Baji related? Are there any good books or videos for this?

[WanderingMonk]

I believe you are refering to this article.

http://www.wutangcenter.com/wt/bajipigua2.htm

wm

[Falcor]

Thanks Wandering Monk. That's the one. I actually have the real magazine somewhere in my house.

Any recommendations on additional exercises/drills with the long pole? What about books or other articles (could be from any style - I don't really care as long as the purpose is the same)? Or videos? Thanks.

[Thundermudd]

Pole shaking exercises rock. Great way to test your body integration. Helluva work out too.
There was an article, think it was lat year in Tai Chi Magazine - look in their archives for pole training.

[count]

You should be using a heavier pole for training like iron wood. The wax wood poles ar for sparring. I think 10 foot is too short and too light but here is where you begin. Stand in a 60-40 backweighted stance. Make sure you are holding the pole correctly. The back hand is at the very end of the pole. Make sure to press the pole in back close to your dan tien in the hip area. The front hand should be at the balance point. If your pole is the correct size for you the should still be a slight bend in your front arm. Start tracing a circle in front of you about the size of a softball. Make sure you use whole body. You should see your dan tien rotate in the opposite direction of the way you are turning. Your front hand should be turning the pole so the pole is not only going around but is also twisting like a screw.

Once you get used to the motion, you and your brother face each other a make contact with the poles. Practice circling without losing contact with your brothers pole. If your motions are good you should feel like you can grab with the pole.

Do not think any book will explain the details from head to toe. The are too many subtlties and you must feel it.

Do this for at least a year than ask me what's next.:p

[RAF]

Well, let's give Gene a big plug for the Great article:

Kungfu Magazine 2003 September/October
Meet the Chief Priest of Wudang Mountain
by Buy this issue Now!


Tai Chi Long Pole
The Complete Thirteen Movement of Tai Chi Stick Form
By Li Shu Dong, pp.64-72.

Fully illustrated but don't know how much you cna learn from the pictures. Its a very good piece.
_________________________________________________
http://www.pacta.homestead.com/index8.html

I believe this was done last December but you might want to contact them. Chen Zheng Lei has this training out on a VCD but its all in Chinese.

The Pennsylvania Chen Taijiquan Assoc. presents:
Chen Zheng Lei and
Long Pole Training


Dec. 13 - 14
10am - 4pm

Topic:
Traditional Chen Long Pole

The 13 Posture Long Pole routine (shi san da gun) consists of 13 movements. THe routine is short and the choreography is easy to learn. The techniques may take a lifetime. Each posture has a combat application and lacks many "flowery" movemetns found in many staff forms. Among the techniques found in the routine are Nian (sticking to), Chan (to entwine), Jiao (to wind up), Lan (waist turning block), Pi (covering), Beng (to burst of), Tuo (drag), Gua (hanging up), Heng (to hit), Zha (jab or thrust), Dou (shake), Jia (holding up), and Tiao (to raise). Among the requirements are solid stances, a strong root, whole body movement, and the ability to issue energy (fa jing). The 13 action staff is practiced as a method for increasing the practitioners internal energy, ability to fajing and strength.

Long poles will be available for purchase at $75.

long poles may be purchased here,
without shipping fee, or at the door......

Taiji practitioners of all schools are welcome.

Grandmaster Chen Zhenglei is one of present-day China's "Ten Great Wushu Masters" and is also one of the "Four Great Jingangs (Warrior-Guardians)." He is the 19th generation lineage successor of the Chen Style and a native of the Chen Village, the origin of Taijiquan.

$220.00 for both days...
$145 for one day...........

Frank Shiery
1114 Easton Road,
Apt. Rear-D
Roslyn, Pa. 19001
Email: xiaojia1@yahoo.com
___________________________________________
Check out Herb Rich's site:

http://www.digidao.com/n13stck.htm
http://www.digidao.com/ntrain2.htm (dao gunzi pole training power)

_______________________________________
Or contact Mr. James Guo and find out when they are holding their next Da Qiang (Big Spear) tournament. They usually have seminars that may help.

http://www.bajimen.com/

Hope this helps you.

[Falcor]

Thanks folks for all the info. Count, I'm gonna look into the hard wood poles like you suggested.

RAF, Dang I missed that issue of KFGQ! But the sites you listed were very helpful.

A question: do other styles besides Hsing-I, Chen Taichi and Baji do long pole training? I've done web searchs and three hours that's basically the only styles that I found that explicitly state they do them. Or do other styles do them but just don't talk about it?

[RAF]

Falcor:

http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/bagua/machuanxu.html

If you scroll down to the discussion of weapons, Ma Chuan Xu has some interesting things to say about the long pole, bagua spear.

I have seen Sun Zhi Jun's bagua spear tape and many of the movements can be practiced as single movement exercises. I would guess that there is some long pole training that he, of course, doesn't discuss on the tape.

Yang's taijiquan has big pole training.

Later.

[ngokfei]

Long Pole is heavily emphasized in southern styles: Hung Ga, Wing Chun, CLF, etc.

Wing lam has a 2 person pole set.

Any one with a pole form available I think would have a section on how to use it (ie drills) before teaching the form.