Iron Body training?

[mantis7]

FT and anoyone else who can shed some answers to this

I have been exposed to alot of CMA styles and training methods but I have yet to fins any valid information in developing the IRon Body skill.

The only information I have been able to gleem is that it has to do with hei gung (sp) or some Chi gung training and Body beating conditioning.

I have alos seen an advertisment for WL iron body training kit. I am learn of videos and training in something new with out proper instruction as you can cause massive damage to oneself.

Ao if anyone can shed some light on this please PM me or post

Cheers
Vince

[Gold Horse Dragon]

Well, you could always use the Clint Eastwood/man with no name iron plate over the chest! :D
Seriously though...IBS involves a gradual conditioning of the body to withstand greater and greater forces...accentuate 'gradual'. Even western boxers have a form of IBS...IE. the medicine ball. Along with IBS is Hay Gong (Chi Kung) to increase the health and energy of the body, spirit and mind.
You need a qualified Sifu to learn it.
GHD

[GeneChing]

Officially speaking it's not recommended to learn Iron Body without a qualified teacher. However, if you're studying such esoteric methods, you should look at as much material as possible - knowlegde is power. Here's our Iron Body Kit (http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/tckprat102.html).

[WanderingMonk]

Once again, I drag out my favorite iron body site on the web.

http://home.comcast.net/~uechiryu/index.html

wm

[Lowlynobody]

Some styles have a type of 'iron shirt' buit into them that does not require hitting yourself with anything. It is a part of their power generation technique. When they strike iron shirt is in place. Take southern mantis, bak mei, and yau kung mun as prime examples of this.


Lowly

[Shaolinlueb]

dit dow by Wing Lam is really good for the training. my sifu has done a lot of it but he hasnt taught me anyhting yet. he has callasses on his knuckles.

[mantis7]

I thank you all for quick response. I have a few questions though
Is it reall ypossible to leanr iron body for a video?

also there is a Bak mei Sifu here In NY maybe I should look him up

I know this is an esoteric training but also I am very scientific person. I have some small fears about trying to train this with out the proper instructions. I have a strong anotaomical background and fear that it can cause internal damage if done incorrectly. I am not afriad of taking blows but I do fear causeing internal bleeding if done incorrectly.

Gene how valid, in all honestly, is Mr Tao's training concepts. I have seen the bags he is using but they seem rather small and would require a a partner.

Would I be better off building a spinning dummy to perform the body beating. with several arms on it so that it can strike the back as well as the front and a another one for the legs ?

thanks all in advance

Cheers
Victor

[Shaolinlueb]

well you start off with mung beans, those arent bad, then go to pebbles and then iron balls, so its not like you start off at the top.

[fiercest tiger]

For what its worth, this is what i was taught!

from one source i was told this:

Iron Body uses internal and external chi kung as well a iron filled jacket, you get beaten with a pole and you can die. the herbs for this training is 40,000 alone and are protected and extinct so ive been told.

another source:

I was taught that you train ur kung fu hard and beat yourself with things to you can handle more and more, make sure you have plenty of dit dar and pills.

FT

[Cung-Fu]

The monk Shi Goulin in NY has iron body training. But then so does any good Thai Boxing gym.

Karate styles that do sanchin kata has iron body, ie Goju, Uechi Ryu.

Even western boxing has a type of iron body, ie medicine ball.

This type of training isn't intrinsic to only CMA, most combative arts has it in one form or another.

Take your pick.

[GeneChing]

The small bags are for partner training. In some of Tao's methods, you have a partner clap the two small bags around your leg or arm. As for Tao's validity, he has some of the best breaks I've seen. I will say that I've seen him miss occasionally. But on the whole, he breaks in more different ways than anyone I've ever seen, breaking with all different parts of his anatomy, and some really weird breaks too. He demonstrates everything - it's all on his video. If you examine many of the so called 'iron body' methods that are available on the market, there is little evidence that the master actually breaks himself. Maybe they'll have one break, or a few variations on the same break ala Brian Grey (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=26942), but seldom do you see so many breaks done by one master. So the proof of GM Tao is in the pudding as they say. Check out his combat videos (http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/milpolvid.html) too, he's got some serious moves.

[ironmantis3]

When it comes to Iron Body, in respect to the CMA's, it is important to remember the strong relationship the CMA's have with Traditional Chinese Medicine. Understand that Chinese Kung Fu is not a art of fighting but rather an art of survival. Be that surviving in a battle field, a back alley, or simply disease and aging. When the old masters developed and perfected their arts they kept this ever in mind and it is even truer today. One is more likely to fall to the onset of disease than from the injury of battle. This approach is also consistant with iron body as well.

With so many videos and books out now, one can learn pretty much anything you wish with a little searching and a credit card. However, many of these videos are lacking in substance when it comes to the more important aspects of such training. Videos may show techniques with bags, sand, and other training devices but really the most important aspect of any iron body training is the chi gung meditation. It is here that many of the videos fall short as they place little or no emphasis on the meditation.

This is not only debilitating to the training, but down right dangerous. While in old China it was very dangerous at times and survival meant skill in fighting, the masters did not forget the health aspects of their training. In such dangerous times they could not afford to miss out on a month of training to an injury because they were careless. And so the methods of training iron body if done correctly are quit safe. But one needs to know proper methods and as intensity increases so to does the need for proper supervision increases.

In the early stages of the training it is best to simply practice the chi gung. There are many methods of this such as Hung's Iron Thread, Golden Bell, Iron Vest and so on. A personal favorite of mine the Stone Warrior exercise. A video on this can be purchased from Green Dragon Studios, however I am not sure of the production quality as I learned this from my sifu and not the video.

Now many of these are in the category of isotonic exercises. Stone Warrior for example, is a set of 21 exercises done with tension of the muscles. This tension is also the way of the karate Sanchin exercise. Now these types of exercise are very "yang" in character. Thus one should be sure to keep up with "yin" type of training such as Tai Chi and the like so as to maintain a balanced body.

Exercises such as the Iron Vest are a little more balance in nature but it is still good to maintain training on the internal aspects of CMA as well.

These exercise are the basics so to speak for more advance iron body work. The hitting and slamming of various body parts, while highly emphasized, is really more advanced and should be avoided without proper supervision. However many of these chi gung exercises are safe if done correctly and can be performed on your own. Take care to look from reputable sources as some videos feature incomplete exercises which could be potentially dangerous. If you are in the company of a knowledgable sifu, have him/her check it out and see what they think.

These exercises not only are good for iron body, but the tension of the muscles will also develop incredible explosive strength with dedicated training. After a few months you will notice a great increase in striking power and overall endurance. So these exercises are very important in that they will develop your body on multiple levels, they will prepare your body for the impact of the striking in more advance Iron Body training, and will improve your health level against illness in that it brings the Wei chi or Defensive chi to the surface through the tension of the muscles.

Later when performing more advanced training, do not forget the meditation as it helps to rebalance your chi after the intense training. This is wether training iron body, iron fist, palm, fingers and anything else. In fact, you may only spend around 20 or 30 minutes porforming actual hitting but the meditation may take up to an hour or more! The meditation is the key, so remember this when practicing.

Well anyway sorry so long, many of you probably already know all this but just thought I'd throw it out there in case anyone was interested. And since many of you are more knowlegeable on this than I am, please bring any incorrect statements to my attention as it will further my knowledge.

Stay healthy and train hard!

[ctoepker]

Most of the myths of Iron Body stuff can be traced a long way back. That doesn't make them true, just old.

You might find these interesting...

http://www.hunggar.org/his_sub3d.html

http://www.hunggar.org/his_manchu3.html#5


Sincerely,
Chris

[GeneChing]

...I might not learn directly from them, but I'd never ignore any available resource, including the internet, when doing this kind of research. The ironic thing is that many presume that finding a good teacher is easy. It's not. So you can wait around until Mr. Miyagi magically shows up and saves you from a butt kicking, or you can chose to avail yourself to what's out there. I can't say this enough - READ. Look at videos too. After you've familiarized yourself with these resources, you can better judge someone who might claim to be qualified. Otherwise, you're just as in the dark about a human teacher as you would be with a video or book. Worse actually, because you can close a book or turn off a video, but a bad teacher can really mess you up.

I also think that basic level iron body conditioning is pretty harmless. Most of the mung bean stuff really isn't so hard and you can get some benefit. Hitting beans isn't too much different than hitting a bag, and if your going to say I need a qualifed master to figure that out, well, that's just crazy talk. It's only on the higher levels that things get sensitive. For sand and steel, you should definately seek the advice of someone who's been there, someone who can break.