The Best Combination of Martial Arts

[LeviathanX]

I've trained in the Korean martial art of Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan for 14 years, and I've delved into the following martial arts very superficially, but I think the best combination of martial arts would probably be:

Tang Soo Do - why? because of its devastating kicks, and sheer power and flexibility gained from training in it for a period of time - and it is more disciplined and focuses much more on the use of hand techniques than Tae Kwon Do. Advanced Tang Soo Do also incorporates some Southern and Northern style Kung-Fu.

Kung-Fu/Jeet Kune Do - why? the hand-work and use of double attacks at the same time, and the footwork involved is superior to most styles.

Capoeira - why? not for practical fighting maneuvers, but it greatly increases your upper body strength and flexibility and the acrobatic moves build up the legs and abs which enable you to do more powerful kicks when standing.

Jiu-Jitsu - ground-fighting is very necessary for practical purposes, and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu has proven itself to be the most viable in competition and on the street (more technique involved than wrestling and more practical than Judo or Akikdo).

What do you think?

[nospam]

Hi LeviathanX.

The 'best'? /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Anyways, kung fu and if you don't incorporate it, some other martial art that teaches ground work. But overall, it is more one's teacher and one's overall capacity to dig down deep and maintain a well greased machine.

BJJ, for the defence while on your back

wrestling, for superior takedowns and excellent for controlling a downed opponent. and great for stand up control which can go hand in hand with good striking

boxing or thai boxing, hardcore striking.

[Mojo]

I saw a photo of the man who originated Tang Soo Do performing what looked like Chen TaiChi.
He was on the ground doing the 'kick with splits' move.

[8stepsifu]

If you shop around you get many versions of the basics. Stick with one all the way. They all end up looking the same at the high levels anyway. you have angles, circles and the human body. The more efficient you get the more it looks the same. Pick an art that offers joint locks, throwing, punching, kicking, and groundfighting. The lesser the style the more you will need to shop around when your training is done. Some blackbelts have to leave their styles to further their training which I think is sad.

[LeviathanX]

Kwan Jang Nim Hwang Kee originated Tang Soo Do in 1947, and it is basically a combination of 60% Korean Tae Kyon (the traditional art that Tae Kwon Do was based on), 30% Northern Chinese martial arts, and 10% Southern Chinese martial arts.

At our school we also practice Hap Ki Do, which is basically Korean Jiu-Jitsu.

Mojo, do you happen to know where you saw that kick? Or could you describe it a little bit better?

Our most advanced traditonal aerial kick in Tang Soo Do is a flying split kick (two boards on each side broken simultaneously with a jumping inside-outside roundhouse kick, and a flying side kick). Of course, at demonstrations you see all sorts of crazy rising aerial moves.

[Mojo]

I saw it in an old 'Black Belt' mag.
I'll look around on the web to see if I can find a picture of the posture and post it.

[Mojo]

I couldn't find a picture so I'll try to describe it.
Sit on the ground in a hurdlers stretch with your left leg straight in front of you, toes up, bottom of foot facing forward.
Your left fist is in front of you in an uppercut position, fist below chest level.
your right fist is held just above and behind your left ear, back of fist facing upward.
I hope you can picture this.


[This message has been edited by Mojo (edited 08-16-2000).]

[Mojo]

I finally found a photo of the posture.

http://www.onehand.com/gifs/chnsnk.gif

[origenx]

Now I'd like to see a picture of someone actually breaking 2 boards doing that in the air!

[JerryLove]

Favored combination arts?

Boxing (or Thai Boxing)+ BJJ (if nothing else, the boxing lets you close to takedown)

Akido + Jujitsu + Kendo + Kempo

Pentjak Silat + Pagua + Hsing-I (you get a kind of Kuntao)

Boxing + Hsing-I + Pressure-point system (pure evil at punching range)

[MonkeySlap Too]

I'd like to see where the Northern Shaolin is in Moo Duk Kwan. Total opposites, and most probably untrue.

Hwang Kee has even asdmitted that he learned out of a book while working for the Japanese in a train station in Manchuria. The book was a Japanese Karate book.

I wish the Korean stylists would just be more honest. Even Korean historians shake thier heads at the BS these teachers spread.

[mild7]

what's the best combination of MA?
In my opinion:

For the handwork- boxing/wing chun.

For the kicks- any art that uses low stomp kicks, e.g. Wing Chun/Taijutsu etc.

For the grappling- BJJ/Judo/wrestling.

For the weapons- Taijutsu/Arnis.

For the 'street' moves- Taijitsu/Jujitsu

[MMA FIGHTER]

BJJ, Wrestling, and Muay Thai

[Crouching Tiger]

i'd say tiger claw, preying mantis, hsing i, and tai chi - why? because I studeid them all!

seriously though, the best combo or arts is street fighting expereince - go to the bar and watch others fight, maybe do some bouncing. This is the best way to learn FAST! Maybe once you can fight, then learn some kick-ass kung fu to learn more.

[Dragle]

Whatever combos are best for you.

I started with Karate, then Aikido and now a mixture of CMA. I like the praying mantis style of CMA so far because it mixes with my Aikido training a great deal and that is what I have the most experience in. I find CMA more friendly to improvisation and experimentation and tend to use techniques I've learned in those classes.
Someone has told me before that BJJ stuff is just the s#it and would be the ultimate. Same with many other styles.
I guess my point being it all depends on the person. How do you wish to fight? What is your body type? What is your attitude and philosophy of fighting? All of these questions can be answered differently by every person reading this, and so will be a personalized fighting system for that person.
Concentrate on what works for you, throw everything else out.

[vingtsunstudent]

have any of you guys heard the saying
'jack of all trades, master of none'
very apt for this ridiculous post.

[vingtsunstudent]

actually sorry guys
if you're that worried,better u combine 2 of my personal favorites-smith & wesson

[MMA FIGHTER]

Every martial art has a weakness. People cross train to minimize the holes in their styles. Intelligent fighters crosstrain. Those who don't will lose.

[vingtsunstudent]

mma fighter
BULL****!!!!!
if you honestly believe that then there is something wrong with either your choise of
school or the way you train(try training harder)
as nothing but a vt man i have worked the door at many clubs(including what was my towns worst)for several years not to mention the nights i've just gone out 4 fun i've never been defeated(i'm not being rude or arrogant because i'm sure there are bucket loads of people who could defeat me)
'there is no such thing as bad martial arts just bad martial artists'
every style is good it's just that some are better & you only get out of them what you put in.

[vingtsunstudent]

mma fighter
after going back & checking your choice of styles i must appologise. it is odvious you have chosen by far & away the world's most devastating styles.
long live the magazines that promote the sport of no holds barred fighting because without them i'm sure we would all be still blinded by inefective traditional styles that obviously have nothing to offer 4 the real world where there are so many rules to fight by.

[Tiger Mantis]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by vingtsunstudent:

long live the magazines that promote the sport of no holds barred fighting because without them i'm sure we would all be still blinded by inefective traditional styles that obviously have nothing to offer 4 the real world where there are so many rules to fight by.[/quote]
I can tell that vingtsunstudent is probably one of the few on this board that know what martial arts is about. when i first started kung fu at 13 yrs old, cross training wasnt heard of, except for jkd, but now its a fad and thats what it is, its a way for those that cant stick with something and put their heart into it to bounce around just as they always have but now its a cool thing to do...in ten years id like to see how many of you are still in the arts, and if you are will probably know as much as you do now being you dont try to dig deep inside to find out what martial arts is about. get mad, rant and rave all u want i rarely post, mostly check out the board for ****s and giggles, i spend more time working on what i know than talking about it-i just had to on this one later

[Master Po]

Tiger, sounds like your the one ranting and raving. I learn and train with Martial Artists who have been cross training for over 20 years. Obviously some people wont stay with it and some will, just like kung fu. Some people just cant handle training hard and some thrive on it.

You can defiantly get deep more then one art. I have been training boxing since high school but that doesn't mean I cant do BJJ. I never used to like western wrestling but after reallizing they have the best methods for controlling a clinch I have begun practicing. I can say I'm a much better fighter, and martial artist, having added those elements. They havn't hindered my boxing knowledge at all and they have improved my overall fighting skill.

You guys can train however you want though...

I dont feel a childish need to insult everyone who has a different opinion then mine.

[mild7]

Two things :
the saying "jack of all trades, master of none" does not really apply to street survival. The saying that has more relevance here is "never put all your eggs in one basket".
If say, you train all your life in one art for example Wing Chun, then some punk takes you to the ground and pounds your face to the pavement. Your Biu Jee is'nt going to do you much good there.
Anything can happen in the real world, weapons, grappling, striking. So you HAVE to crosstrain to improve your chances.

Another thing.. how can anyone say they are a Master of anything? How can you be a master of one? That's ****ing arrogant in my opinion. You're either a Jack of one or you're a Jack of all trades.
to be a Master you have to be ****ing good, what I mean by this is that you must have done the art since you were born and you're a ****ing old man and noone can touch you. Then you can say you're a master.

[vingtsunstudent]

hey fools so it's alright for u to push your cross training crap on us but as soon as we put foward our beliefs we're rude & arrogant & bound to lose fights. well you people can live in laa land & underestimate someone who practices 1 style all u want,that is just your opinion as to i have mine.
master po
Tiger, sounds like your the one ranting and raving.
I dont feel a childish need to insult everyone who has a different opinion then mine.
well contaticted my friend. also every art u
mentioned is a sport, now i'm not saying they don't have value(esp. bjj)but it's just a truth,ving tsuns reputation as a fighting art was forged on the streets & nowhere else.
we don't have tornaments because when we play someone will get hurt(again i'm not saying vt is the ultimate i'm just stating fact)
mild 7
no one claimed to be a master it is simply a saying just like i'm sure when u go to fight
u don't use eggs in a basket.
and if that is your amount of limited knowledge of ving tsun then again u are sadly mistaken. if anyone stayed with vt long enough & truly learnt to apply its priciples correctly they would be able to use it in all situations including the ground & against weapons.if you go through & read some of my other posts on other topics u will c & understand i have many friends who wrestle & with whom i have trained &always using my vt i have by using its
principles given as good as i got.as to weapons a friend of ours who has studied(and taught)filipino knife for over 10 years was so impressed with our principles & technics that he added them to his syllubus.
i must add that i really do enjoy these little arguements as at the moment i don't work & they are an excellent way of filling in time
so, thanx again
vts

[Master Po]

VTS,

What upset me about Tigermantis's post was not his opinion about what kung fu is about. It was his statment that people who train in more then one style wont stick with it. That is just false... although your right about it being a fad right now and there are many people who wont stick to it.

Still there are and always have been serious fighters who will. Just like karate was a fad in the 60's, kung fu in the 70's, ninja in the 80's, and BJJ in the 90's.

Anyway I dont underestimate anyone. Its not the style that will win the fight, it is the skills and attributes of the fighter.

BTW.. I dont know where your from, but around here boxing has quite a reputaion on the streets as well as in the ring.

[vingtsunstudent]

master po
i have no doubt as to the effectivness of any style or even someone who doesn't practice a style as i have met many a hard man who has never even trained, my objection is to the fact that most people who cross train are of the belief that if you don't you will lose & that's just plain rubbish in my opinion.
i to know many people who have cross trained all there lives & have not given up yet but i can also see where tiger is coming from because it is a sad fact that a lot of people leave one style and go to another because they either don't have the patience or willpower to gut it out & find its effectivness & i'm sure that this is the piont he was trying to make but then again maybe it wasn't.
best wishes in whatever your beliefs.
vts

[mild7]

VTS-
we are all entitled to believing whatever we want to. If you just want to learn Ving Tsun and that's that, that's fine. It is a good thing that you are training with wrestlers and other martial artists to improve your game.
But this clearly shows that you ARE crosstraining, my friend. This is basically what I'm trying to say, if you 'put all your eggs' in just your Ving Tsun class and not test it out, you're not going to be as good as you could be. This is the central principle behind cross-training.
It's true that by just learning one art you can learn all ranges of fighting, even Taekwondo. But every art has pros and cons, in TKD's case the punching sucks, grappling is limited and sucks as well.
You're kidding yourself if you believe Ving Tsun grappling is sufficient/effective compared to BJJ/wrestling/judo. Training with the Dragon pole and butterfly swords are'nt the same as sticks and knives, although they do have value and is a lot better than not training with any weapons at all.
Just My opinion.

[vingtsunstudent]

mild 7
yes i suppose i have cross-trained but let me explain 1. i think seeing what wrestling is about & trying my skills against this art is,in my opinion, not cross training.
2.being a bouncer i also did learn a couple holds, chokes & restraints but again i do not consider this cross training either.why, because when it came time to fight i only used ving tsun.to me contolling someone is not fighting it is just a way of staying out of court more often when you bounce for a living.
i know you will probably have a lot more to say & that's fine. but seen as you like to use sayings, here is one that is quite apt for our little meetings "lets agree to disagree"
thanx again & talk to u soon
vts

[vingtsunstudent]

mild7
sorry i forgot to reply to your last paragragh-well i'm a crazy guy & i guess i must just like to kid around.
your absolutly right why would i have any chance because it's a well known fact that all grapplers are masters & never **** themselves like other normal fighters when confronted with a violent situation( i presume you know there are a lot more factors to a fight than just physical ability)
also, yet again you are a little lost with your reference to weapons, there is a little word called 'improvisation'( my teacher whilst in hong kong hospitalised a guy with a machette using nothing more than a rolled up magazine)
i'm sure we'll talk soon
vts

[mild7]

Well, like I've said before, it does'nt really matter how you choose to train. If you find sticking to Ving Tsun is good enough for you, and you're kicking ass in fights then that's that.
But for me, I prefer to crosstrain. I like to be the very best I can be. I believe that crosstraining is the best way for the average person to reach his ultimate potential, and I have always believed this even before the crosstraining hype. My martial art choices clearly reflect this; while it is trendy to do the BJJ/wrestling/MT combo nowadays, I have learned TKD/kickboxing/aikido/judo/ninjitsu and I do take some flack from modern MMA'ers for this choice. It is mainly because I believe every art has it's good points, not just the ones that may work well in NHB.

In my opinion, Bruce Lee would never have been as good as he was(although he certainly was'nt invincible) if he had just stuck to Wing Chun.
Anyhow, regardng your comment on my liking of sayings, it was simply because you mentioned something like 'jack of all trades, master of none', a saying that I feel does not apply to the mutative potential of real streetfights.

So what is the purpose of all this? I myself do not know. I don't really care either.. stick to Ving Tsun if it makes you happy, it may be the right thing for you. Just as long as you can use it, it's served it's purpose.

[vingtsunstudent]

cool & well said
if you noticed my main problem was with the fact that someone stated 'if you don't cross train you will lose'(which i know wasn't you)
again i will agree that if crosstraining is your thing then by all means enjoy it.
i'm sorry about the 'sayings' thing as i know i started that off, the way it came out in my last post wan't meant to sound as if you are the one who started that.
good luck with your training & i hope to compare thoughts on other posts with you soon
vts

[yamato_damashii]

Cross-training wasn't done in your day, 20 years ago? 20 years ago, Yang Jwing Ming had already been teaching in the USA for 10 years. That's Northern Shaolin, Shaolin White Crane, AND Yang Taiji.

Cross-training is a traditional part of CMA; once a teaching license is obtained, a martial artist is expected to go out into the world and study other styles to learn how they work.
How many famous CHINESE sifu do you know who only do one style?

That being said, I still don't think I'd make BJJ one of my choices... Give me Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu, Kuk Sool Won, and Chen Taiji.

------------------
Jason C. Diederich
Pax Nobiscum

[This message has been edited by yamato_damashii (edited 08-28-2000).]

[oferikoh]

Hi,

One should consider Krav-Maga as a system (http://www.thesite.org/action/beginners_guide_to_the_martial_arts__krav_maga.htm l) to use on the street.

A few pro's of the sysem:
1. It is easy to learn
2. it has standing/throwing/ground techniques.
3. it is highly optimized for the day to day street life.

Ofer (9 year kravmaga student).

[lee-JKD]

boxing,taijutsu,jujutsu,jeet kune do. and muay thai sucks a boxer would beat a thai fighter

[HuangKaiVun]

For me, the "single" art of Northern Shaolin suffices. . . after having crosstrained in about 10 different things . . . and CONTINUING to pick up things here and there.

[GhostDog]

To the people saying that cross-training is a fad - look at any of the old-time martial artists. Most of the old karate masters have rankings in Judo and weaponry systems also.
I believe the whole "train in only one system" is based on money, and to keep students from trying different arts.

There is something to be said for sticking with an art, but if your art doesn't cover all of the facets of a fight, then you are doing yourself a disservice. For example, I teach BJJ, and though I sometimes teach stand-up striking, if one of my students wanted to really learn how to strike I would tell him which schools I thought were the best for his/her needs. I don't feel that this reflects badly on BJJ, just as I don't think it reflects badly on Wing Chun/Ving Tsun when their students take up BJJ. These people are smart, and I have a lot of admiration for them for going outside of their comfort zone.