Rock bottom squats.....

[Suntzu]

... are sooo cool..... i made all the excuses in the book... hips not flexible enuff.... ankles not flexible enuff.... but i needed to try...... so i took the weight of the bar and gave it a shot..... still not pushing up mad weight.... takes like almost 5 reps to find my groove.... i lose my balance every once in a while.... my form is not perfect just yet... but its going to happen sooner or later.... haven't worked them in to a complete workout yet.... i just go to the basement crank out a few rep to try and find the groove..... i'll take pictures oneday and you guys can laugh at the sissy weight i'm pushing and tell me how aweful my form is......... overhead squats are next.....maybe..... i want to be knocking out The Bear by sometime this summer.....

[Ford Prefect]

Haha! Dude, try overhead squats with just the bar at first. They are no joke.

[Suntzu]

i've played with it.... my form sucked SO bad it was doing more harm than good..... i can't wait to stroll up in the gym and throw up a few bears....... or maybe just my back yard.....

[fa_jing]

Try full front squats. You'll like them.

[Suntzu]

i could always go 'below parallel with front squats...... my biggest issue with them is bar placement......not much room up here on these skinny shoulders.... i like the squats where you 'cradle' the bar.... sorry don't know the name for them.....

[Ford Prefect]

Zerchers...

[Suntzu]

yeah.... those.... i don't do enough of those but i like them.....

[Arhat of Fury]

going past paralel(sp) contributes to bad knee joints. I would keep it light.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Arhat of Fury
going past paralel(sp) contributes to bad knee joints. I would keep it light.

Why do you say that?

[Arhat of Fury]

myself and a couple of buddies are living examples. Also, just talking to numerous atheletes pro& canadian football players and amature basketball basketball players. Mine got better over time. I always thought to myself when people told me this that "whatever, they're just doing them with improper form and going to balls out" but it still happens. I'm sure that a bunch of books say that if you do them right, you'll be ok(I've even read this).

Trainers at the gym(not the best source) say that thats the way their training told them. They even have their clients going only to 90 degress on push downs(tri-ceps) with the cable. I still go past with this cause I havent had any problems.

[Suntzu]

well (http://www.alteredtime.com/images/Barrios_5_10k/I%20SEE%20THE%20LIGHT.jpg)

read (http://www.cbass.com/Squats.htm)

and

read (http://www.exrx.net/ExInfo/Squats.html)

[fa_jing]

re front squats: have you tried the setup where you cross your arms, shoulders underneath of the bar and hands on top? I think this is easier than the Olympic-style rack.

[Arhat of Fury]

I'm not here to press my point but that genleman in the article will feel it as soon as he stops squatting.

Either way, I've learned from experience. If you all think they are right for you, then by all means, do what you feel is right.

[Ford Prefect]

My knees used to give me problems on and off, and I have one nagging knee injury that rears its ugly head every so often. Up until recently, I squatted strictly power style (a wide stance; only going parallel) because I had read all the studies about knee injuries, and I didn't want to risk it since I already had intermittent knee problems.

Then I started reading some old Russian literature regarding knee strength and olympic lifters, so I started toying around with full front squats and back squats. I liked them and just started an olympic routine 2 weeks ago. My knees haven't felt so good for years. They feel like they did when I was 18.

[Arhat of Fury]

again, you will feel it even more than you did before when you stop.

Good luck guys

[Ford Prefect]

That's nice of you to predict Arhat, but it's BS. My nagging knee injury was from hindu squats, yet many people I know personally and on the net have recieved great results in endurance and knee strength from performing this exercise. I've attempted to try them again a few times only to re-aggrivate the injury. Using your logic, they will all hurt themselves eventually because I did, which obviously isn't the case.

A friendly warning is appreciated especially when it is based off personal experience, but to say the everybody hurts themselves doing something because you and some of your friends did is pretty rediculous.

[Arhat of Fury]

didnt mean to come off in an absolute way. It was more of a friendly warning.

When I said contributes, this is what I meant.

By doing squats to the floor, you begin to slowly stretch out your Tendons and those couple of times one may not observe perfect form(lets face it on the last reps of some sets, one may be too tired to hold everything perfect) you will stretch them even more, making the knee tendons,joins loose thus contributing to bad knees. Especially in conjuction with kung fu and san shou.

Again, just a friendly warning.

[Ford Prefect]

Fair enough. ;)

[IronFist]

How'd you hurt your knee doing Hindu Squats? People always talk about how they rehabed their knee with those.

[Ford Prefect]

Dunno. I used to do 100's of them either in circuits or all in a row. I think maybe I pushed it too far once when I was too tired. My knee kind of had a sharp shooting pain and then it was very sore for weeks after. It was so bad at times that I could barely do stairs because of the pain. I'd have to lean on the railing and swing myself up or down. The pain would eventually subside and I'd try them again only to reaggrivate the injury and be out another 2-4 weeks waiting for the soreness to once again subside. After doing that 4 times, I just gave up on them even though they used to be a staple of my workouts.

[Pork Chop]

I screwed up my knees with hindus a few years back, so I can kinda back up Ford's experience with 'em. I think I was trying to do them on my tippie toes and put the stress in a funky place.

I know if I do duck walks, frog jumps, squat jacks/jumps, hindus, weighted squats, or any kind of deep knee bend too low it makes my knees sore- which then makes stairs, jump rope, and getting out of my car absolute he11; but I still try to do all of the above as deep as I can go.

I try to take it easy when I can, but I don't see how developing strength in a reduced range of motion will really help me functionally.

[Arhat of Fury]

Just thinking the other night and if you all like doing rock bottom squats, you could always do paralel squats and then lunges. When I do lunges, I find that if I step forward and way out to the side, It will hit the outside of the quads like a mofo. Plus you will hit your but muscles and hamstring, just like rock bottoms.

Just my .02, this is what I went to after my knees hard starting hurting and have been doing them for 3 years with no complaints.

Good Luck

[fa_jing]

regarding Hindu squats, if you haven't already messed up your knees, what will help is using a brisk upswing of the arms to assist you through those bottom few inches of motion. They are fun and gave me good GPP, but I haven't done them in months - pistols are more fun, though they do bother my knees some. 2 kettlebell C & J is even more fun.

[IronFist]

I do Hindu squats like how Matt Furey says to do them, rolling up onto the toes and using arm momentum along with this at the bottom of the movement. Do you think I'm in danger? Not that I could actually do hundreds of them, but still. I've heard of people doign 500-1000 (supposedly) in a row a couple times a week. Is that bad?

You guys could also try box squatting. Just get a box that is at the right height for you (the one I use gets my thighs at just barely below parallel, like maybe 1 degree). If you've never done them before, box squats are tough as a mofo. Well, not really. What I mean by that is, if you can squat x lbs doing normal squats, doing that same weight for box squats I would estimate is like 20% harder. Give it a try. You'll see.

[Arhat of Fury]

box squats=awesome, I use the flat bench in the gym. Put it underneath me perpendicular. With lighter weights I sit down very softly and then get back up, with heavier weights I will go down right before I touch the bench as to not provoke any spine injuries.

[IronFist]

Dude sometimes when I get tired I sit there for a few seconds before I go back up :D

[Arhat of Fury]

LOL- I find myslef doing that sometimes too.

[Ford Prefect]

Yeah. Box squats are great for the posterior chain. Nothing nails my hams and glutes better.

Iron,

Like I said, I know plenty people personally and on the net that have never had a problem with hindu squats like I did. I have no idea what happenned. I used to be huge into BWE stuff and did them a lot with no problems. Every saturday I even ran a BWE fitness class for my roomates and girlfriend. It got so popular that other people from my appartment building starting coming and we had to move it outside to a field so we could fit everybody. Then one day, I felt that sharp shooting pain and that was the end of that.

[fa_jing]

arhat - they say it's dangerous to do box-squats on the bench because your ass might slip or something.

[Ford Prefect]

Some people say it's dangerous to do box squats period because of the compression of disks caused by sitting on an unyielding srufance with a large amount of weight on your back. Much like everything including rock-bottoms and hindu's, the poteintial for injury is there.

[Arhat of Fury]

to piggyback on what ford said,
This is why I only sit with light weights and go down and barely touch(right before) with heavier weights.

Sitting requires perfect form, something I can only achieve with light weights.

I do this to control the weight through all aspects of movement.
When I bench I only go heavy enough so on the last rep, I bring the bar down and set it on my chest and count one thousand 1, then blast it to the sky. I hate bouncing and I hate watching garbage lifters.