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Tru-MA
08-14-2000, 08:30 PM
Hey, guys what's up? I'm wondering what you would do against a baseball bat attack. Some idiots that were at my school in June said that they could beat up people with baseball bats and that made me think about the self-defense techniques that I have trained in. I have never trained in defending against a baseball bat with my bare fists, and I would look to using the environment as my weapon (well, actually I look to the environment whenever I am defending myself anyways) /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I'm just mad that one guy stated that all he would ever need is a baseball bat and a gun to defend himself (I'm mad because that guy is going to get himself killed in the streets one of these days using that logic, because he can't exactly tote around weapons like that in public). http://216.219.234.88/forum/roundtable/mad.gif So, seriously, what would you do to defend against a baseball bat attack with your bare fists and feet? http://216.219.234.88/forum/roundtable/confused.gif

LeviathanX
08-14-2000, 09:00 PM
You would actually defend against a baseball bat in a very similar way as you would against a knife, sword, or bo-staff. Don't pay attention to the bat, pay attention to the power source - the opponent's body.

It takes momemtum to swing a baseball bat, and there will therefore be a recoil time needed to swing the bat again. This is when you must strike.

Basically, you move in before the opponent starts to swing the bat, or you step back to avoid the first attack and move in as your opponents momentum goes past you.

It, as you might imagine, takes good timing, but there is no easy technique to deal with this type of situation.

If you are able to run... always run away first. Don't feel like you have to prove yourself in battle... it could land you in the hospital or in jail - it really isn't worth it if you can avoid it.

nospam
08-14-2000, 10:16 PM
I agree, when presented against a weapon, if possible leave, if not then..

A baseball bat, this is actually one of my fav weapons, sort of an offshoot of the do or broadsword. It can be employed in a similar fashion and is easier and less expensive to get practise 'bats' than swords.

Anyway, there is 2 primary bat attack angles, a wide arcing sweep (hi-middle-low)and an over-head strike. The trick or skill of defending against a bat is Timing. Most folk will swing once or twice in the air- sort of like firing a warning shot in the air. This is an excellent time to bum rush and take the dude down. Most attackers will think you are scared of the bat and naturally back away- indeed, most do.

This is critical IMNSHO. This initial opportunity is limited. Take it.

Depending on the distance between you and the attacker, the first swing can be deftly dodged (by moving back a little) and then quickly countered by assualting the attacker. I would go to engage the attacker by grappling and going for a take down while fighting for control of the weapon- this is having 2 things going on at the same time and takes practise or just take the person down.

Remember, no matter what happens, your attack has to be 110% committed, and if you get caught, keep going forward and into the attacker to lessen the impact of the swing. Then make your next couple of moves count. A bat is a distance weapon.

You want to wrap a shirt or jacket around your arm, if possible. This will lesson the impact. Place a tree, telephone, light post between you and your attacker and judge accordingly. Throw something (dirt/keys/shirt/shoe/stone) at the person immediately followed by your attack. It is important to gain control of and disrupt their balance.

I find the over head strike to be the best, as it is much more controllable during mid strike and is a stronger attack. Generally, a person will run at you with an over-head strike, which is good, as this lessens the amount of power generated in a swing. Move around- you never want to be motionless -and hopefully an opening presents itself, otherwise deflect as mucg with your arms (rolling them) and take the person down.

The best way to defend against a bat..or any weapon..practise. I would hate to encounter a weapon on the street prior to studying it in my kwoon!

Kung Lek
08-15-2000, 01:04 AM
Hi-

Of course will agree with the statements concerning if you have an out, take it.
This applies to any and all weapons that are turned on you.

i also agree that you shouldn't focus on the weapon but rather on the weilder of the weapon. particularly the arm that is handling the weapon.

the wrist, elbow and shoulder joint are the weak points or controllable points on someone swinging a bat. If you can control the elbow and wrist of the bat swinger you are halfway there.

Try not to block the arcing bat but rather step inside the swinger and take hold of the arm that controls the weapon, especially at the joints.
From there do what you can to take control of the situation.

peace

------------------
Kung Lek

JerryLove
08-15-2000, 01:43 AM
OK, this actually really depends on how the attacker wields the bat. If he swings it in arcs, defense is simple (maybe not easy, but simple), check the bat and close range.

Despite how many people feel a bat is like a sword or knife, it doesn't cut, cannot cleave, and has a definate and short threat range when swung (you cannot step inside a knifes range and be safe). You can safely encounter the bat, as long as you don't resist it in the outer half of the bat when it is within a power range on a swing.

The other option is that the person is more skilled, either with more swinging skills (can hit you point-blank through J-swings and the like) or is using the bat for it's hardness (thrusting, using it like a sap, etc). You will have to adapt your response to his fighting method, but defenses are pretty similar to if he was unarmed (for most arts).

Jerry

silentjohn
08-15-2000, 02:06 AM
I agree with everyone so far..

a note you might wanna take into consideration: the end of the bat will be traveling with much more force and speed than the end closest to your attacker's hand.

SO if you are fast enough, once they wind up, just step on in real close with a punch to bicep of bat wielding hand, or to the throat, or something like that /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif you get the idea. Getting in close really makes the bat a lot less effective in most people's hands.. unless they took escrima or something /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

jimmy23
08-15-2000, 03:47 AM
many excellent replies here,heres my two cents..
The only thing I would add is that one on one,this is an ideal time to shoot and go to ground.If theres more than one (youre probably dead meat but here goes)try to get in on one and keep him close,he may or may not shield you from the others attacks.

MonkeySlap Too
08-15-2000, 06:18 AM
I was agreeing until that shooting part. I have fought a bat weilding nut who did have friends.

Why in gods name would I shoot to the ground in that situation? I would have been killed. Bad advice.

I do however reccomend throwing your opponent, as this tends to take the fight out of your attackers.

jimmy23
08-15-2000, 10:20 AM
guess that i didnt make myself clear,only if its one on one do i advocate shooting.

yungak
08-22-2000, 03:57 PM
Deleted

[This message has been edited by yungak (edited 08-25-2000).]

8stepsifu
08-23-2000, 08:16 AM
If you have a group of guys after you with bats run! The last thing you want is to be circled by the pack. If you must fight run around until you find a good sized rock and pelt them with it. If you are in close enough to be hit by a swing, follow the momentum and get close to the opponent. Remeber that it usually takes two hands to swing to hit the guy in the nose/throat or hit him in the solar plexus. Disable him and get back to running. They can also hit you strait on. And just because your a MA doesn't mean you cant invest in pepper spray. Use the pepper spray to blind them and then kick their asses /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JerryLove
08-23-2000, 08:47 AM
Sorry, just had to respond.

> If you must fight run around until you find a good sized rock and pelt them with it.

Throw the rock at the group of guys with bats? OK, assuming you hit one and do damage, the rest kill you while you are bending over for rocks.

> If you are in close enough to be hit by a swing, follow the momentum and get close to the opponent.

I doubt you can move faster than the end of the bat. If you can, no advice anyone here puts out will matter, you can kill your opponents with impunity. It is also worth pointing out that the path of the swing does not lead to the opponent.

> Remeber that it usually takes two hands to swing to hit the guy in the nose/throat or hit him in the solar plexus.

That doesn't address the issue of closing range. Finally, punching range is where you *don't* want to be as it is the power area for the bat.

>Disable him and get back to running.

If you have disarmed him you now have a bat, of course, you haven't said how many people are in this gang (when did we start talking about groups with bats?)

> They can also hit you strait on. And just because your a MA doesn't mean you cant invest in pepper spray. Use the pepper spray to blind them and then kick their asses

Or a firearm, but that wasn't in the original question.

8stepsifu
08-24-2000, 05:05 AM
jerrylove, just because you are a wannabe doesn't mean you have to degrade good advice without offering up any of your own. He wanted protection from some guys with baseball bats. You can move faster than a baseball bat. What makes the baseball bat go? The rotation of the body. Body rotation is also needed to punch, yet people in most styles of martial arts still manage to sidestep and turn with the opponent to accomplish this. From actual streetfighting experience I know that running to gain distance and chucking rock works. (think Palestine) Its not macho, but its self preservation. There not going to whack you while your picking up rocks because you have created distance by running. My whole point was to be recourcefull. Cops use pepper spray for crowd control and thats what he needs to do.
"Punching range is where you "dont" want to be." Are you a moron? Of course you want to be close to the opponent so that he can't make use of his extention. Thats why people with less reach get closer to punch. You obviously know nothing about combat of any kind. Please leave the board to people who can actually offer advice.

Braden
08-24-2000, 05:06 AM
Fighting against bats is nothing like fighting against knives.

In most people's hands a bat is useless at close range, a knife is not because it's damage potential does not rely on momentum.

You gotta look out for those kid-sized aluminum bats though. That would be my weapon of choice, if I were the sort of person that had such things.

JerryLove
08-24-2000, 05:57 AM
Congradulations 8step, your personal "wannabe" comment has just graduated you from incompetent to jerk.

I offered up advice of my own, try reading the thread before opening your (virtual) mouth.

You cannot move your body faster than the end of the baseball bat. You may be fast enough to evade a bat (or punch) but that is accomplished by moving a shorter distance. The bat is the end of a lever about 5' long. Your 200lb body has no lever to accellerate it. The end of a bat is probibly moving around good pitch speed (say 75mph) the most you can hope to move your body is 20.


"running to gain distance" So, you are faster than every person in this imaginary gang? You must be, not one of them has stayed close enough to bonk you on the head when you bend over.

"From actual streetfighting experience"

You're own? I doubt it from the advice you are giving (wait, you didn't give any advice, guess you did the same thing you accused me of)

I never argued pepper spray was not useful. I just said it was beyond the scope of the question. You could just as easily said "run them over with your car" or "shoot them with your gun".
"Are you a moron?"

Real professional debate you offer up.

"Of course you want to be close to the opponent so that he can't make use of his extention."

Punching range is the sweet spot on the bat. You want to be much closer than that. Give a friend a bat, stand at punching range, see how much of a wallop that bat packs at that range.

"You obviously know nothing about combat of any kind. Please leave the board to people who can actually offer advice."

And your skills were learned from a crakerjack box. Go try boxing a guy with a baseball bat and tell me how it turned out when you get out of the hospital.

BTW, to everone else, sorry for the derigority statements, he started it ;-)

JerryLove
08-24-2000, 06:00 AM
Actually 8step, you kinda get your wish. I will be in the hospital the next 4-8 weeks (Bone Marrow Transplant). So unless there is an internet connection in the hospital, you get that long to spread the manure you call advice unchecked.

8stepsifu
08-24-2000, 07:41 AM
Now why would you tell me that? Does somebody want to be felt sorry for? Poor baby I guess you weren't an ignorant jerk after all. I stand by my comments and refuse to break them down for you even more. Most people understood what I was saying the first time, but your not here to understand, your here to **** on legs. Good riddance.

Qiman
08-24-2000, 07:51 AM
Curve balls and sliders with a good hard fast ball is the best way to beat a guy with a bat. Oh sorry, wrong sport. Yes you would need to close (fast) when they chamber to start the swing. If you can grab the bat with both hands use elbow strikes in close and dissarm the bandit.

Of course running would be my first effort.

JerryLove
08-24-2000, 07:54 AM
Ohh, fun with translations :-)

"Now why would you tell me that?"

To answer rather than translate, because I didn't want you to feel too unloved when I didn't respond the the drivel you would no doubt post.

"Does somebody want to be felt sorry for? Poor baby I guess you weren't an ignorant jerk after all."

Tranlation: Lacking anything informative, I will try to escilate the flame war. Plus I forgot who called who an ignorant jerk because I cannot read a thread.

"I stand by my comments and refuse to break them down for you even more."

Translation: Even though I never broke down or defended my comments, I cannot counter your points and so I will try to act smug and hope noone notices my opinions don't have a leg to stand on.

"Most people understood what I was saying the first time"

Tranlation: Even *I* don't know what I was thinking.

"but your not here to understand, your here to **** on legs."

Tranlation: I'm here to **** on legs and yours seems good since your leaving.

"Good riddance."

Tranlation: I'm hoping your ego is as fragile as mine and this will make you feel bad. I'm sure no one will think the worse of me.

JerryLove
08-24-2000, 07:59 AM
Qiman...

I agree, closing within the danger area of the bat (assuming it is held as a bat, see my original post) is the primary concern. I don't know that I agree about closing pre-swing. I don't know what method of closing you are suggesting, but it seems it would be safer to close following a swing. After the swing, it will take longer to recover and swing again. If you go in before the swing, I would be worried about getting caught.

Once you are in, I don't think I would worry about disarming the bat, just take them down and finish the fight. Of course, this perspective is from the way my art fights, I can see where some other arts (Thai Boxing for example) would be more interested in a disarm.

Jaguar Wong
08-24-2000, 08:29 PM
"If you must fight run around until you find a good sized rock and pelt them with it."

Yeah, but if he's good agaist the curve, or slider, then you don't have any hope of hitting them with the rock unless you've got a 90+ fastball. I won't even mention bunting.

http://216.219.234.88/forum/roundtable/tongue.gif I do apoligize, it seemed
like a good idea at the time.

------------------
Jaguar Wong
www.superaction.com (http://www.superaction.com)

jimmy23
08-25-2000, 01:13 AM
dam jerry hope it goes well for ya,thats some serious stuff there.good luk man.

HAMMERFIST
09-08-2000, 09:32 PM
I'm brand new to this forum & I don't know how you all feel about cross training. But, one cool thing about Fillipino MA's is some of their defense's against real or street weapons- with or without a Kali stick. More often without-in reality. If you can find a FMA instructor, get him to show you the baseball bat defenses. They are pretty easy to learn & do work if applied correctly. I personally don't feel the FMA's have a lot to offer in the striking or grappling ranges, but once again, the weapons techniques are pretty cool.
My 2 cents


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Those pine boards had it commin to them-besides, I'm not allowed to hit real people!!!

MasterKiller
08-02-2010, 08:38 PM
http://www.viddler.com/explore/Barstoolsports/videos/37/

Notice the kung fu kick right before shirtless gets whacked the 2nd time.

lkfmdc
08-02-2010, 08:44 PM
what was that exactly?

MasterKiller
08-02-2010, 08:50 PM
what was that exactly?

The sound of one head clanging.

lkfmdc
08-02-2010, 08:51 PM
drunken idiots screaming at random cars for no apparent reason, followed by irate driver crushing pin head with his bat? Am I close??

cerebus
08-02-2010, 09:06 PM
All I could think is that if they'd tried that **** here in Oakland, someone woulda shot their stupid azzes dead within the first couple of seconds...

lkfmdc
08-02-2010, 09:12 PM
All I could think is that if they'd tried that **** here in Oakland, someone woulda shot their stupid azzes dead within the first couple of seconds...

looked like Boston, maybe Philly?

bawang
08-03-2010, 06:58 AM
white people walking safely at night what kind of chinatown is this

darkie1973
08-22-2010, 03:20 PM
Whites can walk around safely in SF chinatown!? For the most part,...:D

SoCo KungFu
08-22-2010, 03:45 PM
There's a reason I drive a beat up truck. I'd have just hit the fuker.

Syn7
08-22-2010, 04:09 PM
that guy is lucky he got away at the end there... it was a close one... if he had ended up out of the car again he would have been hurt bad forsure... dude has giant balls though... to pull over and be like ALRIGHT THEN! and actually stick around long enough to have won that... but as soon as he lost his bat he was gone... smart move... just about didnt make it... personally, i wouldnt have done that unless i had to rescue someone or something... not out of pride or anger... like i said, the guy has giant cajones, but i dont think i respect his decision to engage at all... not worth the risk... pride is a weakness more often than a strength...


"Never hate your enemy, it clouds your judgement!"

Faruq
08-22-2010, 04:17 PM
I couldn't see the bat, but I sure recognized the sound of aluminum. I was wondering which Chinatown that was myself too.

MartialDev
08-22-2010, 07:35 PM
That was a serious bat fight! Here's another: http://tinyurl.com/dmv6n3

hskwarrior
08-22-2010, 09:58 PM
Whites can walk around safely in SF chinatown!? For the most part,...

i know i can :D

hskwarrior
08-22-2010, 09:59 PM
This thing happened in boston i believe

Dale Dugas
08-23-2010, 04:41 AM
It is Boston, and those idiots are lucky they did not p i s s off the freemasons who they were screaming and yelling in front of their door stop.

Public drunkenness is akin to mental retardation.

Dragonzbane76
08-23-2010, 04:45 AM
idiots one and all. The guy walking up on the car is what really got me. Just arrogant pieces of sh!t.

hskwarrior
08-23-2010, 07:25 AM
out here in SF...if that guy got on the hood of our cars like that......we'd just hit the gas and send his a$$ flying over the top.

but you saw the flags dale....thats awesome....i noticed that too. hahahaha

Hardwork108
08-23-2010, 11:13 PM
out here in SF...if that guy got on the hood of our cars like that......we'd just hit the gas and send his a$$ flying over the top.
I am surprised that the driver did not do that. I mean he had the guts to come out and face all of those guys at the same time, so it wouldn´t have been fear, or anything like that.

Hardwork108
08-23-2010, 11:15 PM
There's a reason I drive a beat up truck. I'd have just hit the fuker.

Why, what did your poor truck ever do to you?:confused:

:D

Hardwork108
08-23-2010, 11:19 PM
All I could think is that if they'd tried that **** here in Oakland, someone woulda shot their stupid azzes dead within the first couple of seconds...


I can´t even begin to describe to you what would have happened to these guys down here in Colombia. What I can say for sure though is that it would have made interesting viewing material....:D

MasterKiller
05-20-2014, 04:24 PM
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=31a_1400548188

GoldenBrain
05-20-2014, 04:43 PM
That's about as good as it gets right there. I get the feeling that the big man could have literally broken the smaller guy into itty bitty pieces, but instead he took the high road. ***applause***

Kellen Bassette
05-20-2014, 07:56 PM
Nice reflexes there....would've been cooler if he didn't drop the phone and kept on with his conversation though. :P

GeneChing
10-15-2015, 09:48 AM
But totally badass!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSvrIZKI8mk

rett2
10-17-2015, 11:41 AM
But totally badass!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSvrIZKI8mk

The interesting question is whether the numbers supplied are believable.

160 km/hr = 44.44 m/s

The distance is measured at 9.2 meters. The ball goes 9.2 meters in 0.2 s or 2/10 s. That's 1/10th of a second for normal reaction time and 1/10th of a second to draw the sword and strike. Sounds reasonable, and very impressive.

GeneChing
04-19-2019, 09:25 AM
She's my hero today.


A 300-pound Florida man in boxers was no match for a 65-year-old woman with a baseball bat (https://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article229407774.html)
BY HOWARD COHEN
APRIL 18, 2019 10:09 AM, UPDATED APRIL 18, 2019 01:23 PM

A 300-pound man in his underwear was no match for a 65-year-old woman armed with a baseball bat.

Not when the woman was a high school softball player — and still a feisty slugger.

In a video broadcast by WGFL CBS 4, Clarese Gainey told of how she saw a hefty 36-year-old Antonio Maurice Mosely trying to break into her car parked outside her Gainesville home on Sunday.

As Mosely tugged at the lime-green car door and pounded on its window in an attempt to break in, according to Alachua County deputies, Gainey said, “I grabbed my bat and I braced myself. I eased the door open.”

The barely dressed Mosely saw Gainey and charged at her, she told reporters.

And then ... “I took that bat and hit him upside the head like pi-yah!

“He said ‘Ow!’” Gainey said, smiling.

https://www.miamiherald.com/latest-news/prwf1/picture229409112/alternates/FREE_1140/Gainey%20bat%20cbs%20screengrab.jpg
Clarese Gainey, 65, shows WGFL CBS 4 reporters how she used a baseball bat to fend off accused burglar Antonio Mosely on April 14, 2019, in this screengrab. Screen grab WFGL CBS 4

Mosely was tracked down by a K9 and found hiding inside a mobile home nearby — this time wearing pants.

Gainey identified Mosely and quipped that it was good for Mosely that she didn’t have a gun because she would have shot him, WMC Action 5 News reported. “This right here,” she said clasping her trusty bat, “is my gun.”

https://www.miamiherald.com/latest-news/agg70m/picture229409127/alternates/FREE_1140/Antonio%20Mosely%20Alachua%20Jai_fitted.jpeg
Antonio Maurice Mosely’s booking photo on burglary charges on April 14, 2019. ALACHUA COUNTY JAIL

Mosely, who was previously charged with passing a forged document on April 5, according to court records, was booked into Alachua County Jail on Sunday on two counts of burglary — one of a dwelling, the other of an unoccupied vehicle — and drug possession. Detectives say he was found with cocaine. Bond on those charges is $15,000. He’s also being held on $5,000 bond on the earlier charge.