Cinnabar Palm”, or “Blow of deferred Death”?

[Unmatchable]

Someone on Jarek's board posted:

From the book by Jin Jing Zhong "Training Methods of 72 Arts of Shaolin" (Tanjin, 1934):
“Cinnabar palm” is the soft GONG FU, it trains the inner power and belongs to category YIN. This exercise is also called “The Palm of Plum Blossom”1 (MEI HUA ZHANG) and “Palm of Red Sand” (HONG SHA ZHANG).
…If you are in command of this GONG FU, you need not touch the enemy with hands. You make stroking movements or strike with a palm at some distance and the enemy is severely injured and will surely die in 10-15 days or even in several hours. Being in command of this GONG FU, you must not misuse it in any case. It is a manifestation of guile and ill intentions to use it secretly. It can be used only in extremity to defend your life or the life of your near relatives. Unfounded use of this skill is immoral and disapproved by specialists in WU SHU.”
See in detail here: http://www.kungfulibrary.com/gong-fu-e-magazine.htm

Is it possible in reality and if so, how can it be explained from the scientific point of view? It would be interesting to know if anybody is in command of this technique at the present time. Perhaps, somebody has some knowledge about it and he will be able to answer some questions at least.

P.S. One more resembling method - "One Finger of Chan Meditation". Here a blow is made with a forefinger at some distance, which results in injury of the inner organs or spasms of blood vessels (see ISSUE#2).
Link:http://www.kungfulibrary.com/

http://members.boardhost.com/xinyi/msg/9072.html

[Unmatchable]

Someone posted this on emptyflower:


There's a guy named Wilhelm Reich Who, started off as Sigmon Freud's assistant physician. Amoung other things he discovered an energy in the body called orgone which is Sexual energy. This is another word for Chi.

Long story short, later in his life he had some weird ideas, one of which was a cloud buster. This was an instrument which could break up clouds using this orgone energy. So Maybe Master Kit knows something we don't. Good to know he has western counterparts.

Just goes to show, anyone can fall off the deep end.

A picture of a cloud buster is on the left of this page.
http://www.orgone.org/"

[IronFist]

I have a book called "72 Consummate Arts of Shaolin" or something like that and I think it has something abou Cinnabar Palm. There's a lot of crazy stuff in that book. Thinks like training your palm by rubbing some sand together in your palms over a bucket of sand. Not hitting the sand, but just getting some of it between your hands and rubbing it or something. I dunno. It's supposed to let you hit people from far away. I haven't looked through that book in a long time, but like I said, there's some crazy stuff in it.

[anton]

Originally posted by IronFist
I have a book called "72 Consummate Arts of Shaolin" or something like that and I think it has something abou Cinnabar Palm. There's a lot of crazy stuff in that book. Thinks like training your palm by rubbing some sand together in your palms over a bucket of sand. Not hitting the sand, but just getting some of it between your hands and rubbing it or something. I dunno. It's supposed to let you hit people from far away. I haven't looked through that book in a long time, but like I said, there's some crazy stuff in it.

Yeah i've got that one too, it's pretty nutty in places. Recommends rubbing one's hands over some fine sand in a plate until one feels tired and increasing the distance b/w hands and sand. When you get up to rubbing your hands 1 foot above the sand and making it move you progress to "iron sand" then iron balls.

Here's a quote: 'A veteran of this Arts can let out Qi to generate "electricity" through his palms'... Hello StarWars :eek:

[Cung-Fu]

Sounds like total nonsense to me.

Although I have read some scientific papers on bio-energy emitted from the body, the amount doesn't even come close to causing people to "burst into flames"

[anton]

Originally posted by Cung-Fu
Sounds like total nonsense to me.

Although I have read some scientific papers on bio-energy emitted from the body, the amount doesn't even come close to causing people to "burst into flames"

Well to be fair (and I'm not suggesting that this is any more believable) there's nothing in this book about spontaeneous combustion. here's the quote detailing the effects:

"The main method of Cinnabar-Palm is that of directing inner Qito one's Palms, to cause the opponent to suffer from serious internal-organ injury. At first a manwho is beaten by the Cinnabar Palm does not find the case serious, but a few days later the bright red palm-marks will appear on his body....
...'Wu Xia Painting Collection' in Qing Dynasty states that Shu Yin, who learned the Arts from a Buddhist Monk for twelve years, was taught this consummate skill "Cinnabar-Palm" secretly. Had he touched his opponents' body with his palms, he would have broken the opponent's bones to pieces."

All errors are the original author's.

Sounds like BS to me too. Either way using scientific arguments against people who choose to believe this stuff is probably futile.

[Cung-Fu]

lol

I was being facetious.

[anton]

Originally posted by Cung-Fu
lol

I was being facetious.

heh... i was too tired to pick that up :D

[SaMantis]

Mmmm, Cinnabar ...


<heads to the mall>



;)

[Meat Shake]

Cinnabar sounds like a place with warm pastries and hard spirits.
:)

[old jong]

I don't know about "cinnabar" but I can tell you that if you eat too many "wunderbar" you will get sick and vomit all over the place!...:eek: ;)

[Meat Shake]

Wunderbar?
Sounds like pot brownies to me.
:)

[David Jamieson]

uh, you guys don't wanna be eating cinnabar. lol, it's mercury after all.

anyways, the training method has been confused with something else apparently, or the author has convoluted it with fantasy.

hummphh.

cheers

[old jong]

beuaaarrrk!... (http://www.cybercandy.co.uk/acatalog/696.jpg) :eek:

[Meat Shake]

Eesh...
Ill not be having any wunderbars.
Doesnt sound healthy, and the wrapper looks like a butterfinger with down syndrome.

[FatherDog]

You make stroking movements or strike with a palm at some distance and the enemy is severely injured and will surely die in 10-15 days or even in several hours. Being in command of this GONG FU, you must not misuse it in any case. It is a manifestation of guile and ill intentions to use it secretly. It can be used only in extremity to defend your life or the life of your near relatives.


How the **** would doing something that kills a guy hours or days later be used to "defend your life or the life of your near relatives [in extremity]"?

If it doesn't kill him for hours or days, then the only way it could be used to defend your life is on an opponent that isn't going to kill you for hours or days... what the hell kind of scenario is that?

[Meat Shake]

Fatherdog... you poor senile old man.
Have you forgotten that cinnabar palm also gives you esp? So when you have the ability to cinnabar palm someone, you also know who you need to cinnabar palm in advance.
Do I have to explain everything? :rolleyes:

[brothernumber9]

Several years ago I was watching an installment on PBS of Bill Moyers "Healing and the Mind". In it they were observing, confirming, and debunking alot of the fraud doctors in asia especially the ones that pull cancerous tissue out of the body with spiritual powers and thier bare hands. One of the segments concentrated on accupuncture and accupressure and focused on a practitioner in Taiwan. The guy was a bit chubby with a short sleeved collared shirt on, shorts, docker shoes, and no socks. He was describing how he meditated every day for at least one hour and that he could control his "chi" and cause his body temperature to rise inhumanly and could even focus the effect to specific regions of his body including his stomach and/or hands. The camera man was skeptical and was invited to touch the man's stomach and pulled his hand away saying it was burning. A little later on they went out onto the street where a newspaper was crumpled up and placed on the ground. The Taiwanese practitionor then focused for a moment, then held his hand out over the newspaper about an inch away from the newspaper and within a few seconds the paper was on fire. I don't know if it was a trick but I wish I could see it again, at the time it seemed unbeleivable to me and I haven't forgotten it since. Personally I don't believe hardly any incredulous claims unless I see it for myself. I didn't know much about circus trick doctors then and even less now. but if it was a trick then it was impressive in the least particularly since the filmers were skeptics also.

[Meat Shake]

Along with the debunking of cinnabar palm, empty force, ect...
One must take into consideration that we humans only understand the functioning of approximately 25% of our brains. We dont know what the rest does, supernatural or otherwise. So to completely debunk and disregard such abilities... seems as far fetched as the ideas themselves.

[SaMantis]

well, all spicy goodness aside, I think Cinnabar palm is the best idea ever. I mean, if I mastered it, I could just sit in my Lazy-Boy all day, killing people left and right, making them burst into flame! I wouldn't have to do all that pesky kung-fu stance training, either.

yeah. that rocks. :)

[Indestructible]

Originally posted by brothernumber9
Several years ago I was watching an installment on PBS of Bill Moyers "Healing and the Mind". .

Saw the same show. Even if its just a trick, its a darn good trick. I imagine using it at the bar. Hey baby, wanna touch my cold belly?

[Meat Shake]

"I imagine using it at the bar"

I can just imagine...
"yeah sweetie, if you think thats cool, wait till you see what else I can make hot..." :eek:

[Unmatchable]

No touch ko?:
http://www.geocities.com/uk_dbbai/knockouts1.html

Some systema clips:
http://www.russianmartialart.com/catalog/video/1bp.mpg
http://www.systemauk.com/video/camm1.mpg

[trilobite]

Oh good, I'm glad the Mullins board isn't the only place where this topic has been brought up. Sounds like a bunch of bull crap to me.:rolleyes:

[anton]

Originally posted by brothernumber9
The Taiwanese practitionor then focused for a moment, then held his hand out over the newspaper about an inch away from the newspaper and within a few seconds the paper was on fire. I don't know if it was a trick but I wish I could see it again, at the time it seemed unbeleivable to me and I haven't forgotten it since. Personally I don't believe hardly any incredulous claims unless I see it for myself. I didn't know much about circus trick doctors then and even less now. but if it was a trick then it was impressive in the least particularly since the filmers were skeptics also.

Yeah there was a doco about some Russian "superman" a couple of years back. He said he could generate electric sparks from his fingers. He demonstrated and used his finger to burn a line through a piece of paper... they did a closeup shot of his finger and you could see blue sparks jumping out of it... after wards the tip of his finger had a pretty serious looking burn on it... never figured out how he did that.
Other stuff this dude did:
He sat in an aquarium with no breathing equipment and held his breath for a stupidly long amount of time. Then he sat in a bathtub suspended over a fire, was the water boiled and got out with no burns. Then he pushed wires through his forearms and attached them to metal cables and pulled a train carriage uphill with them... Gotta give it to the guy... I'd probably watch this over David Copperfield any day.

[Mr Punch]

I saw that programme Bro9 saw and it was immense. It was a team of sceptical scientists who'd been making a lot of people look rather silly, but they could get nothing on this guy. He supposedly took 16 years just training that skill after his acupuncture training. Like has been said, I don't know if it was a hoax, but if it was it was one of the most convincing ones I've seen since claiming a lower primate as a president of a superpower!!!


Originally posted by Meat Shake

One must take into consideration that we humans only understand the functioning of approximately 25% of our brains. Yeah, but 11% of Americans between 16 and 24 couldn't identify their own country on a world map remember, together with 4% of Japanese and 4% of Britons... which added together with the number of people who can't tie their shoelaces without a flashlight, and those who have to label their arses and their elbows before they go to bed at night so they don't walk funny the next day... somewhat negates the 'we humans' premise to the also negatible 25% statement and the somewhat fuzzy definition of 'brains'!!! :eek: :D

Superhuman powers would assume that most of us can achieve human ones.:rolleyes:

[anton]

Originally posted by Mat
Superhuman powers would assume that most of us can achieve human ones.:rolleyes:

*yoink!... *snatches quote*

[Kymus]

Originally posted by SaMantis
well, all spicy goodness aside, I think Cinnabar palm is the best idea ever. I mean, if I mastered it, I could just sit in my Lazy-Boy all day, killing people left and right, making them burst into flame! I wouldn't have to do all that pesky kung-fu stance training, either.

yeah. that rocks. :)

and no finger prints, so you it's harder to be caught for killing stupid people :)

[IronFist]

I wonder if you could do Cinnibar Foot? Then you could do funny looking dances where you point your toes at people and they'd be like "haha, look at that guy's silly dance" and then they'd die a few days later.

Or Cinnabar Head? You'd be headbanging and killing people all around you.

[anton]

or Cinnabar... :eek:

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by IronFist
I have a book called "72 Consummate Arts of Shaolin" or something like that and I think it has something abou Cinnabar Palm. There's a lot of crazy stuff in that book. Thinks like training your palm by rubbing some sand together in your palms over a bucket of sand. Not hitting the sand, but just getting some of it between your hands and rubbing it or something. I dunno. It's supposed to let you hit people from far away. I haven't looked through that book in a long time, but like I said, there's some crazy stuff in it.

That technique is also referred to in the book "Kung Fu: history, philosophy and technique" and is referred to as the red sand palm.

[SevenStar]

the real delayed death touch is cinnabun. Buy a crapload of pastries from there, and gluttonly force feed your victim. They will die from sugar overload, clogged arteries or some other means.

[anton]

Originally posted by SevenStar
the real delayed death touch is cinnabun.

Wontcha have sum summa dis cinnabun..
is it worth it lemme work it....

arrgh
thanks a lot, nbow that song will haunt me in my sleep :(