Hey WC guys, can you help me out?

[IronFist]

I don't want to post the same thread twice in two different forums, so please take a look at my thread in the main forum and give me your input. It's about wrist alignment in WC punches versus wrist alignment in, uh, non-WC punches (meaning western boxing, karate, etc.)

Link (http://martial.best.vwh.net/forum/showthread.php?threadid=27383)

Thanks.

[Phil Redmond]

The number 3 picture you posted had the wrist out of alignment with the fist.
http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/theory.asp

[Phil Redmond]

Another example.

[KPM]

Hi Ironfist!

I read your post and looked at your examples on the other thread. Not "all" WCK guys use this alignment as you stated. This is hard to describe without being able to show it. In your initial picture 1: the alignment is still not correct. The alignment that you show for a lot of WCK guys with the wrist bent is definately not correct from a biomechanical standpoint, even if it is Yip Ching himself doing it! Good alignment at the wrist has a line through the middle of the bones of the forearm passing through the fist at a point just in front of the main knuckles. A line across the back of the forearm and the back of the hand is NOT straight, but also not as bent as you show in your picture 2.

Keith

[IronFist]

KPM, thanks for the reply. Most people seemed to not know what I was asking.

But when you refer to pictures, are you talking about the first pic I uploaded which had 1, 2, and 3 in it, or the second group of pics I uploaded seperately, which were individually numbered 1-4? I messed up and gave multiple pics the same number. Oops.


The alignment that you show for a lot of WCK guys with the wrist bent is definately not correct from a biomechanical standpoint

That's what I'm talking about! :)

Actually, if you could take a pic of your fist showing what you say is "correct" it would help me out a lot :)

Or maybe draw a pic.

[KPM]

Originally posted by EmptyCup
re: the thread you linked to
the bent-ness is there to add umph to the punch when it is aligned, or more accurately, as it is being aligned.


---I keep the wrist in the proper alignent at all times, ready to land the punch on any point during its outward progress. If it makes contact at "half" extension, it will be with the knuckles almost exclusively. But the wrist will still be in alignment for the best structural integrity. If it makes contact at "full" extension, then it will be with almost the entire surface of the fist. This is why Ironfist has the wrong idea when he shows the pic of himself punching the dummy frame in the second set of illustrations he posted. He is landing the strike at less than full extension but still trying to use the entire surface of the fist as the contact. This requires a large bend in the wrist, as he is showing...but this is a mistake from a biomechanical standpoint and leaves you prone to damaging your wrist. Another advantage to keeping the wrist aligned at all times and not "canting" it is that this allows you to "cut the line" more easily and deflect anything that may be coming into your center as your own strke goes out.....simultaneous defense and attack. This does not work as well with the wrist bent because it leaves the forearm at a different angle to the incoming strike.

Ironfist asked:
But when you refer to pictures, are you talking about the first pic I uploaded which had 1, 2, and 3 in it, or the second group of pics I uploaded seperately, which were individually numbered 1-4? I messed up and gave multiple pics the same number. Oops.

---The first set of pics you put up showing the different alignments.


Actually, if you could take a pic of your fist showing what you say is "correct" it would help me out a lot

---I'll see what I can do. :-)

---Another factor to consider that affects the contact surface and wrist alignment is the angle of the forearm and fist relative to the vertical. If a punch lands at mid-sternum level with close to full extension of the arm, then the fist is pretty much vertically oriented. However, if it lands above mid-sternum level there is an increasing amount of angling off of the vertical which allows the elbow to remain rotated inward towards the center. (The palm side of the fist points more to the ceiling, the back of the fist more to the floor). LIkewise, if it lands below mid-sternum level there is an increasing amount of angling off the vertical that results in the palm side facing more towards the floor and the back side more towards the ceiling. This angling is required in order to keep good wrist alignment and still hit with as "flat" a fist as possible. You can do the "wall test" to illustrate this for yourself. Stand in YGKYM in front of a wall so that when you extend your punch you are touching the wall with arm at nearly full extension. Place your fist on the centerline against the wall so that it is as "flat" as possible. Do it at your mid-sternum level and your fist should be vertical and you can visualize the line thru the bones of the forearm and thru the fist just off of the knuckles as I described before. Now do it at high and lower levels and see how the arm must follow an arc in order to maintain a maximized contact area with the wall. This is nothing magical or secretive, just good biomechanics! :-)

Keith