When running has lost it's effect...

[IronFist]

Haha, not me! My max run is still less than most of your guys' warmup runs :)

Ok. I have a friend who runs a lot. Like around 5-10 miles a day. Her diet is good, too. But she always complains that she can't lose any more weight. She's a wee bit thick and wants to come down to the next level. You guys know of anything that would do this? I mean she's already running like 10 miles a day so she's in good cardio shape, but if that's not burning enough calories what else is there?

She has a trainer at Bally's but I'm not placing much faith in that :D

So you guys have any like "super calorie burning aerobic exercise programs?"

No thermogenics, and no kettlebells. Please keep it bw and cardio-only.

[Cung-Fu]

Liposuction or stomach staple if she is really overweight. :D

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by IronFist
Ok. I have a friend who runs a lot. Like around 5-10 miles a day. Her diet is good, too. But she always complains that she can't lose any more weight. She's a wee bit thick and wants to come down to the next level. You guys know of anything that would do this? I mean she's already running like 10 miles a day so she's in good cardio shape, but if that's not burning enough calories what else is there?.

http://stephenholtfitness.com/guest_articles/interval_training_for_fat_loss.htm

[IronFist]

^ Anything I don't have to pay for?

[fa_jing]

HIT is known to burn fat faster than Long-slow-distance training. Have her check out some of the articles at cbass.com and also, she needs to control the calories better. Have her figure out where the hidden calories are. Maybe she likes bread or something. There's also all this "carbo-loading" stuff still floating around out there in the running world. Believe me with that much work that she's putting in, she must be eating extra calories somewhere.

[IronFist]

I dunno dude... unless she's lying about what she's eating or something...

Anyway, what are you referring to when you say "HIT?" Cuz whenever I hear that I think of that bull**** superslow stuff that I think is also called "HIT." You know, where you take like 30 seconds to do each portion of an exercise and you only do 1 rep total?

I assume you're talking about some other type of HIT.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by IronFist
^ Anything I don't have to pay for?

Uh, what? Nothing in that article asked you to buy anything.

[travelsbyknight]

She needs to run faster shorter distances. Running ten miles a day isn't healthy. She is screwing up her hips and knees right now. In the future she might have a lot of joint problems.

It might not be that she can't lose weight. Everyones' bodies are shaped differently. Just because someone is super thin...doesn't mean he or she is healthy. And just because someone is thick...doesn't mean he or she is unhealthy. Not everyone can get their bodies to look like Paris Hilton's. Tell her to accept the way she looks because it sounds to me that she's doing all the right stuff to be healthy.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by IronFist
I dunno dude... unless she's lying about what she's eating or something...

Anyway, what are you referring to when you say "HIT?" Cuz whenever I hear that I think of that bull**** superslow stuff that I think is also called "HIT." You know, where you take like 30 seconds to do each portion of an exercise and you only do 1 rep total?

I assume you're talking about some other type of HIT.

High Intensity Interval Training. Read the article I posted; it goes into detail on why that works better for fat loss than LSD - Long Slow Distance running.

Then go to http://www.trainforstrength.com/Endurance1.shtml , which is a bit more clear about specific interval programs.

[rubthebuddha]

i'd suggest getting her doing some moderate strength work to help burn the excess, along with the HIIT. have her do one of scrapper's workouts on www.trainforstrength.com. my girlfriend did scrapper1 with me, pushups were on her knees, and aside from pullups (no bar, so we did cable row), and it was one of the best workouts she's ever had. she can probably squat more than me max, but the 144 pushups (pyramids up to 12) had her anterior deltoids hurting for around a week (she did knee pushups).

anyhoo, get her some basic muscle elsewhere in her body to burn up fat as well, and try the HIIT.

[Ka]

Agreed High Intensity,but just get her to do sprints(assuming she enjoys her running),****lek style,Hill or stair runs.
Medi ball work
Burpees (cause its great to see women do these)and other assorted jumping excerises.
http://www.warriorforce.com/articles/warriorarticle1.html
Skipping
Basic Boxing or MT classes.
Its endless really because its about intensity.
Then there's the Diet....

[fa_jing]

oops, yeah it's HIIT. But I've heard that exercise is only 20% of a diet, anyway. Have her run in the morning on an empty stomach, no more than a banana, and no carbs after 3 pm. That will work for anybody.

[IronFist]

So what's this I hear about Tabata something or other?

Is it like, run really hard for 20 seconds, then slower for 10 seconds, repeat ad nauseum?

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by IronFist
So what's this I hear about Tabata something or other?

Is it like, run really hard for 20 seconds, then slower for 10 seconds, repeat ad nauseum?

Dude, read the links I posted.

It's all right there.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by IronFist
Haha, not me! My max run is still less than most of your guys' warmup runs :)

Ok. I have a friend who runs a lot..............
So you guys have any like "super calorie burning aerobic exercise programs?"

No thermogenics, and no kettlebells. Please keep it bw and cardio-only.

sure...
For starters, walking instead of running will help, don't mix sugar and complex carbs for a lean lithe torso and incorperate some callisthenics (like pilates). Do these things and pounds will melt. I also do several thousand ab excercises a day, with navel to spine concentrating on different angles at different speeds for about 200 reps each set.....of each section. I am normally known for my abs and this definately works. Also spine articulation before,during and after makes a good difference. Wish her luck. ;)

[mickey]

Ironfist,

There was an article in Muscle Media 2000 that talked about the use of high intensity sprints in a short period of time. She should also cut back on the frequency of such runs and focus on gaining some muscle mass. This echoes some of the previous posts.

Someone has to tell her that the cut and deisel look of competitive bodybuilders is the result of starvation and is not good for the body (male or female). She can also bring about menopause sooner (fat stores estrogen: I read that somewhere).

mickey

[IronFist]

Originally posted by blooming lotus


sure...
For starters, walking instead of running will help,

How do you figure?


I also do several thousand ab excercises a day, with navel to spine concentrating on different angles at different speeds for about 200 reps each set.....of each section. I am normally known for my abs and this definately works.

I guarantee you that if you have ripped abs it is not because of your "thousand" ab exercises that you do each day. Muscle definition comes from low body fat and big enough muscles to see. Doing high reps, especially reps into the thousands, does absolutely nothing to make a muscle bigger and absolutely nothing to change the way a muscle looks. It also doesn't burn enough fat to even bother with.

Once again, muscle definition is a result of low body fat. Look at the pics I posted. My abs are definately ripped and I haven't done an ab exercise in years (other than heavy benching, squatting, and deadlifting). This proves that you can have ripped abs without doing ab exercises, much less thousands of reps of them.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by mickey
Someone has to tell her that the cut and deisel look of competitive bodybuilders is the result of starvation and is not good for the body (male or female). She can also bring about menopause sooner (fat stores estrogen: I read that somewhere).


Thanks mickey. She doesn't want to be shredded like a bodybuilder or anything, tho. Just a little less "thick."

[blooming lotus]

I am not getting into a big discussion on the validity of what I posted. I did that class too and am well aware of what you're saying. Proof is in the pudding and whatever ********..20+YRS OF FITNESS INDUTSRY EXP...12ISH MA...HIGHEST NATIONAL MARKS IN SCIENCE..OLYMPIC QUALIFIING RUNNER FATHER..EX-MODEL AND TO BE QUITE HONEST...DON'T GIVE A PERSONAL **** IF SHE ISNT HAPPY WITH HER BODY OR EVER IS!


.just sharing what I know.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
Wish her luck. ;)


Originally posted by blooming lotus
DON'T GIVE A PERSONAL **** IF SHE ISNT HAPPY WITH HER BODY OR EVER IS!

Whoa... Bi-polar much?

[fa_jing]

BL - lots of people do hi-rep ab work and get great abs from it. Including some pro athletes. But it is not necessary, the same muscle mass and density can be gained from low rep heavy ab work, which usually consists of specialized exercises. That along with calorie control, and overall exercise taxing the system, but not necessarily emphasizing the body part in question, can produce the same aesthetic result. I think that's what Ironfist meant to say.

[mickey]

Ironfist,

I am shocked that I did not think of this sooner.

The answer is YOGA. Yoga would really do it for her.

It works wonders better than wonder bread.


mickey

[IronFist]

^ Yoga's good for developing muscular control but I'm not sure how many calories it burns.

Actually, Yoga is something I'm interested in learning more about.

[mickey]

Ironfist,

I took up Hatha yoga as a college elective. I found that it opens up the energy pathways, making the body more efficient in its energy expenditures and requirements. It also improves all of the processes of the body. I have seen people that seem to have a set build "restructure" their bodies via the slimming down process that yoga offers. It tends to generate an internal body heat.

While I would recommend Hatha Yoga, have her explore the various types to see what she would gravitate to.

As far as the muscle building aspect, there is some; but it is more of a coordinated, integrated, strength development that bodybuilding does not offer. This is a feature that Matt furey offers with his bodyweight exercises. The popularity of Matt Furey's bodyweight exercises, in time, will bring more people to yoga because it is more complete.


mickey

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by IronFist




Whoa... Bi-polar much?

lol...snapped ha....you'll just have to sue me....

Really good luck to her but don't ride me about me about it, I care ...but not that much...

good suggestion on the yoga but I'm still saying pilates....I was a big advocate for matt furey a while back, its just that my system is better :D

[rubthebuddha]

IF -- mickey is right (how could he be wrong with such a great product named after him ;)). yoga, particularly hatha, would be a fantastic answer.

the only piece of gear required for yoga is a floor, so no gear purchases are required, and it's something she could do long after her body decides it no longer likes to run. it'll also help her health, posture, etc. as she ages.

****, why aren't we all doing yoga? :mad:

[Ford Prefect]

I gotta agree with those on here who recommended HIIT. Long sustained effort aerobic exercise isn't the best way to lose fat by far. Long sustained endurance activities are fed primarily through through aerobic pathways meaning that the muscles get their energy from chemical reactions involving oxygen (ie their breathing) Some fat is burned for energy, but fatloss from LSE activities usually comes from a calorie deficit in the recovery after a workout.

Sprints and other high intensity exercises go right to the source to burn fat. Their fast, intense nature means that the body is getting it's energy via anaerobic means (ie sugar/glycogen stores in the muscles) When the muscles run out of glycogen deposits, it dips directly into fat stores to get energy to perform the activity. After all, fat is just stored glycogen. So not only do you actively burn fat to complete the workout, but you also burn fat during recovery because of the caloric deficit created by such intense activity.

I know you like Thibadeau, so check out his Running Man article for t-mag:

http://www.t-mag.com/nation_articles/251run2.html

[IronFist]

Thanks for the info, Ford. I'll look over that article.

[FatherDog]

I'm always gratified when Ford agrees with me. It means I've probably got something right. :D

[blooming lotus]

I dont think you boys understand what I'm suggesting she do and how she should carry it out. To work out this way is worth three of what your describing. By using full body isometric contractions under short bursts of varied speed and intesity at varied anlges then alternate that with bull body isometric hyper - extensions also at varied speeds length angles and directions...addd oxygen saturation vs deprivation alternatively and you have a rapid fitness and flexibilty increase for a start and you also get maximum density like serious iron core density...you will burn fat extreely quickly doing this and if it's your gooal to rip up..providing your recoverery eats are monitored ............You will no doubt about it, achieve that in a very short period of time. Triple your workout in less time...I challenge you to try it, come back after 30 days and tell me you ( and evry one else) haven't noticed the iprovement. Time is not nesseccary here proving each uscle group has been worked while stretched and contracted, stretched back out and allowed to settle at as any angles/heights/lengths etc as you're up for.

[Ford Prefect]

I think I will try that in the future. Maybe I'll start next time I get sand kicked in my face and my girl stolen by the beach bully. Thanks for the tip, Charles Atlas.

Just giving you a hard time. While posing/isometrics should be part of every bodybuilder's and pretty-boy's routine, it isn't the optimal way of "getting ripped". That's more of the smoke and mirrors, all show and no go way. I think most here prefer the methods that will get you strong and healthy and look it rather than just looking it.

[blooming lotus]

come on ford, just 'cause it looks pretty doesn't mean it's not functional..........of course ontop of that you would have your boxing, footwork, grappling throws and takedowns, stance training etc.....I'm telling you it's the sublte differences that makes the difference from a good working body to a great one in any situation. Who's Charles Freakin Atlas anyway?

Defensive?...... weren't we just talking about a chick who wanted to lose weight? Look, I was hospitalised some yrs back for being too slim...They made me put on 21kgs, I got out did this and lost the bulk of it in 6 -9 wks, the safety of which is debateable, but nothing but sweet smelling sweat inside my hair... ...

you know what, dont try it but speaks for itself I think.......

[Ford Prefect]

Blooming,

I have 6% bodyfat and am already pretty strong and obviously have a good deal of definition. All this with the goal of making myself strong and healthy. I lift heavy weights. I run, bike, and swim long distances and through series of short sprints to work different areas of respiratory health. I do high repition calesthenics to premote endurance. I swing kettlebells and leverage bars for general conditioning.

I don't need some trick to make me look good, since I already do and I'm in great health and strong too.

Charles Atlas was a famous bodybuilder in the 50's and the guy who introduced routines like yours to the American public. His most famous add was a guy on a beach with a girl, and the guy gets bullied and his girl stolen. He sends away for Mr Atlas's routine, and shows up all ripped to shreds to steal his girl back.

Dynamic tension and isometric routines do work. By "work", I mean they will help bring about definition through nervous system stimulation and by making your muscles appear denser because of the high fiber recruitment and tension involved in completing them. People may laugh, but posing like bodybuilders do on stage is HARD work-out. It will burn calories and give visible results.

What is won't do is make you much stronger. Nor will it premote joint strength and health. Nor will it premote cardio vascular health. Nor will it premote strength and endurance through a larger range of motion. Obviously it would for people coming off inactivity, but for anybody already in any sort of decent shape, it won't. This is why I say that people here are concerned with being strong and healthy with a good look coming as a side effect rather than looking strong and healthy but not really being it. All show and no go.

Sorry, but science has backed me up on this. There were numerous studies done on routines like this both here in America and in the Soviet Union because it was so popular back in the 60's. It was found to be grossly incomplete for the reasons I mentioned.

[blooming lotus]

Ford

If you have read any my earlier posts you would have read that I absolutely concur. Looking good is a bi-product of a having a body that works. I still don't think you understand what I am saying. Of course this would not be the total sum of your workout, but the extra aspects would pend your individual needs and objectives. AS far as endurance, My father was the fastest man in his country over 20 (??) miles and I have also claim to long distance and endurance achievements myself. I have been extremely privilged to grow up with his knowledge and have been lucky enough to have trained proffessionally with him since I was very little, as is my now 10yr old daughter having trained with me all her life. I am extremely densed muscled and unexpectedly strong for a little chick, stronger (and more skilled) than most people I meet ( although body fat is up jus' a little ...have been in illness recovery and giving myself a well deserved break). In normal times I work out up to 12 hrs every day and am passionate about making my body work to the absolute best of my knowledge with the information I have ( its my vocation, my life study even) . I have studied ( as most of us have, either personally or formally and amongst many other things) various aspects of health, fitness,biomechanics,energy systems ( particulary fat burning) and nutrition. It is very rare that I meet someone who has something to teach me in reguard to this. Not to discredit you because I'm sure you have alot of knowledge yourself, but I'm not wrong ford...sorry

[Ford Prefect]

OK, BL. Maybe you should bring your findings to Olympic and professional sports trainers. You can become a rich man and trainer of champions. Don't forget to read research from the past 40 years though. That could be embarassing.

[blooming lotus]

I have actually seriously considered doing that...:o :D
I'd love to talk tech with bio-scientists.....(considering my IQ''s 10 points + higher than their average)....
I had a great business plan for a mentoring clinic come training institute or a new fangled health and fitness system available to the public for the first time (as course submmission while studying business mgt) and have no doubt I could be a competitive olympic athlete....but ego aside ,what's the point? I don't even see the point in competeion...I jus wanna train



( I guess that's why I don't instruct anymore, I'm kind of selfish that way)

but on another note...... time consuming training is good motivation to create long lasting, high revenued solid business plans that look after themselves with as little paper work as possible.....( translation, the long dollar)....more time to train and study...no "work" neccessary.....not that I'm materialistic, but a girls gotta live :D

[Ford Prefect]

lol!

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
I have actually seriously considered doing that...:o :D
I'd love to talk tech with bio-scientists.....(considering my IQ''s 10 points + higher than their average)....
I had a great business plan for a mentoring clinic come training institute or a new fangled health and fitness system available to the public for the first time (as course submmission while studying business mgt) and have no doubt I could be a competitive olympic athlete....but ego aside ,what's the point? I don't even see the point in competeion...I jus wanna train



( I guess that's why I don't instruct anymore, I'm kind of selfish that way)

but on another note...... time consuming training is good motivation to create long lasting, high revenued solid business plans that look after themselves with as little paper work as possible.....( translation, the long dollar)....more time to train and study...no "work" neccessary.....not that I'm materialistic, but a girls gotta live :D

I'm just gonna go over here and laugh hysterically for a while now, mmmkay?

[Volcano Admim]

*puts on Ryu mask*

Hey... you... man
stop disrespecting that lady!! :mad: