Muhammed Ali vs Martial Artist

[Losttrak]

I have an acquaintance that doesnt believe this match ever occured. Anyone who has a link to any documentation/pics/vids?

[LeeCasebolt]

Hell, *I* don't believe that match ever happened. Unless you're thinking of his fight with Antonio Inoki, who was a Japanese pro wrestler with no jujitsu experience of which I am aware.

I've got clips of that fight, and let me tell you it is boring as hell.

Lee Casebolt

[Sho]

Antonio Inoki is half Brazilian, so maybe he knew some BJJ. :D

[Sho]

By the way, LeeCasebot, how did the match end?

[fiercest tiger]

Ali was standing up and Antonio was on the ground laying on his back kicking him.

worst fight ive seen!

not worth the time to watch it, he was scared Ali would punch the sh!t out of him.

FT:)

[LEGEND]

LOL...it was truly the worst fight ever! It was a fixed match agreed upon by both sides. They did it for the MONEY. A wierd stipulation was that INOKI was not allowed to grapple ALI. Why this happen I have no idea! But later years reveal that this was simply a money making scheme...the Japanese love it when AMERICAN IDOLs lose or end up tieing with their HEROEs. Hulk Hogan was paid millions to lose to MAEDA and others.

[Losttrak]

Woohoo Is there any source i can download those clips from boring or not?

[Chang Style Novice]

Was it really worse than the Dan Severn/Ken Shamrock "Superfight" that consisted of Severn walking counterclockwise in a circle for a half hour while Ken turned to face him?

"Worst pro fight ever"

Sounds like a great idea for a thread!

[JAZA]

I saw that fight, it was a show.
ALi was very good paided, the japanese guy on the ground in an undecorous position throwing kicks to Ali.

[LeeCasebolt]

Here's what I know of the fight...

Well, I *say* "know". Here's a compilation of what I've been told about the fight. It was an exhibition put on by a pro wrestler and a boxing promoter, so let's not kid ourselves about the amount of reliable information available.

Inoki's got a hardon for proving that pro wrestlers are the world's toughest fighters. Had it for decades, from when he started wrestling in the 60s (?), to his current role in promotions. As a "competitor", he lined up judo and karate champions for worked matches and, naturally, beat them in impressive fashion.

With this as a backdrop, Inoki got it in his head that the thing to do would be to have a match with the world heavyweight boxing champion, the colorful Muhammed Ali. My understanding is that, originally, Ali was supposed to do the job (that's take the fall, or lose the fight in carny parlance) so Inoki could look good to the hometown fans. As the fight approaches, Ali decides he's not laying down for some foreign fake fighter. Or his management decides that, I'm not too clear on this point. In any case, the deal is off unless it's a real fight.

Apparently, Inoki figured he could take the champ, given that he had some legitimate wrestling training and Ali had none, so he agreed. More time passes, and significant promotional work is done, and Ali (or his people) decide they won't fight unless the rules are changed to forbid Inoki from suplexing (throwing) or using submission holds. By this point, too much money is invested for Inoki and his people to cancel, so they agree.

The whole event is reputed to have been quite the spectacle. Boxer Chuck Wepner faced Andre the Giant in a worked bout on the undercard that I dearly wish I had a copy of. Judo and pro wrestling legend Gene LeBelle was signed as a special referee. The main event was a let down as Inoki spent the entire fight on his back, kicking at the legs of Ali for fifteen rounds of "action". Not as bad as Shamrock/Severn 2 (which permanently retired the "Worst Professional Fight Ever" title), but close. The fight was, I beleive, ruled a draw. I've heard varying reports as to the effectiveness of Inoki's kicks, from "none at all" to those who say Ali was never as mobile after this bout.

In short, somewhat interesting for historical reasons, but not much in the way of entertainment.

I don't know of any site that has clips of the fight; I got it on a cheap "champions of the martial arts" video that also had a few muay Thai fight clips and some psycho karateka fighting a bear. Trust me, it's not worth the $12.

Lee Casebolt

[OdderMensch]

some psycho karateka fighting a bear. Trust me, it's not worth the $12. :eek:

THAT almost sounds like it's worth 12 dollars, maybe I can dig around for it.

[guohuen]

The Gorilla Monsoon - Ali fight was much better. Monsoon picked Ali up and threw him out of the ring and Ali climbed back in and beat the cr@p out of him. Very dramatic.:p

[JAZA]

This is the site of the program, where I saw the fight.
They publish the videos on the site, I didn't search it but you can ask for it there.
Luck

http://www.tvndeportes.cl/seccion.asp?ids=114

[Dim Wit Mak]

I read somewhere that Muhammed Ali fought a martial artist who immediately got in the crab position and took Ali down with a scissors move. Can anyone tell me who the martial artist was, what his style was and the outcome of the fight?

[Ford Prefect]

Antonio Inoki. He was a wrestler/judoka who is still very big in Japan. He's promoter for Pride and Japan's pro-wrestling circuit. I'm not sure if he participates in pro-wrestling or not.

I think the outcome of the fight was a draw. Inoki basically butt-scooted the entire fight, so obviously Ali couldn't get to him while he was flat on his back. he fight was basically a sham.

Round-by-round:

http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~YF7M-ON/eari3.html

Rules:

http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~YF7M-ON/eari2.html

[truewrestler]

Rules were the biggest problem for this match. Especially after Ali's guys saw Inoki's sparring, they had a strong atttitude to threaten Inoki's side that they would boycott the match unless the restrictions are added with their requests. Inoki was forced to fight under a lot of restrictions.

Before the match, the rules weren't explained to the audience. If rules were recognized by the audience, the match might be evaluated in differently.

It was a problem that they didn't agree with the rules until the last minute, but more than that, the fact was that Inoki was not able to do much under these rules. So, they could not publically announce the rules

[truewrestler]

This is a better fight - Judoka (Gene LeBell ) vs Boxer (Milo Savage):

http://www.blackbeltmag.com/archives/blackbelt/1964/mayjun64/boxing/boxingvsjudo.html

...and it is even available on video at Gene's store:

http://www.genelebell.com/product.asp?i=20

[apoweyn]

Didn't Ali also do an exhibition bout with Joe Hess as well?

[Ford Prefect]

Truewrestler,

Not saying that what you posted is entirely incorrect, but please note that the site that little blurb is from is Japanese Pro-wrestling fan site where Inoki is a god.

Inoki couldn't lift and slam Ali but he could trip from the clinch. I've seen a lot of this fight (i didn't see the whole thing because it was impossible to remain interesting since it was so very boring), and Inoki basically just lied on his back from start to finish. It was a sham.

[MasterKiller]

I liked it when Rocky Balboa fought Hulk Hogan.

[truewrestler]

All I know is what I've heard and that site explains what I've heard over the years... along with the fact (right?) that the bout was initially supposed to be a work/prorasslin match

I have seen some video online and it looked like Inoki gave some decent kicks. Rules from that site: "Note: kicks regularly used in pro-wrestling are prohibited. However, when the wrestler's knees are on the ground or squatting down, he can use foot or legs to kick the opponent's legs"
Originally posted by Ford Prefect
Truewrestler,

Not saying that what you posted is entirely incorrect, but please note that the site that little blurb is from is Japanese Pro-wrestling fan site where Inoki is a god.

Inoki couldn't lift and slam Ali but he could trip from the clinch. I've seen a lot of this fight (i didn't see the whole thing because it was impossible to remain interesting since it was so very boring), and Inoki basically just lied on his back from start to finish. It was a sham.

[old jong]

I seen that Inoki/Ali "fight" It was a shame even if it was only an exibition match.
Inoki was on his back all the times and Ali was surely wondering what it was about!

Inoki is now Pride's official clown!...The one all bow before.. He is very good in his role because he certainly believes in himself a lot!...Looks like his ego is as big as his jaw! ;)

[truewrestler]

Ford Prefect, I don't see anything in the rules limiting takedowns.... except for maybe the grabbing ropes = ref break and start in middle

[Abstract]

i've heard of this fight but never saw it....i'm at work now so i can't watch any mpegs, but in this instance, does 'crab position' = Fred Ettish 'Fetal Fighting' position?:eek:

[norther practitioner]

There are some pics of it on that one link.

[truewrestler]

Originally posted by Abstract
i've heard of this fight but never saw it....i'm at work now so i can't watch any mpegs, but in this instance, does 'crab position' = Fred Ettish 'Fetal Fighting' position?:eek: ummmm....no, it means crab position (sitting on butt with one or both hands supporting you from behind)

[Ford Prefect]

Really? I could have sworn Inoki was barred from picking up Ali off the ground and slamming him. You are right. It was a work in it's original inception. I think Gene Lebelle was the ref in that fight too. heh!

[CaptinPickAxe]

Splashing Hands has stepping simalar looking to Muhammed Ali's stepping...

just thought you'd like to know

[truewrestler]

I thought there were more rules too Ford Perfect. I have seen this website before but never actually read through the rules :)

Anyways... regardless, I think we can only come to one conclusion: under modern MMA rules Inoki would have won the fight easily

[norther practitioner]

:rolleyes:


Anyways... regardless, I think we can only come to one conclusion: under modern MMA rules Inoki would have won the fight easily

Think what you will, but a couple solid punches from Ali could change that quick. It is one of those things to kind of look at, shrug your shoulders, and realize it was all about publicity.

[truewrestler]

lol, you on crack? :p Even with the crazy rules Inoki got Ali to the ground and went for a leg/foot lock but Ali grabbed the ropes which forced the fight to be stood up in the center.

Striker versus Grappler = Grappler wins 99% of the time

Have the last 10 years taught you nothing?

[norther practitioner]

:rolleyes:

Have the last 10 years taught you nothing?

Yeah, that grappling isn't the end all be all...

99%:rolleyes:

Grappling is good to know, and needs to be addressed but it isn't the "ultimate" thing ya know....

Or have you not seen someone actually get ktfo from a strike in the last 10 years.

[truewrestler]

Ok, I'll lower the bar.... would you favor Inoki to win under modern MMA rules?

[Dim Wit Mak]

Just wanted to thank everyone for the great information. I really learned a lot. I guess God gave me two ears, two eyes, and one mouth so I could spend four times as much time taking things in rather than spouting them out.

[truewrestler]

10 fingers (http://www.google.com)

:p

[GeneChing]

Enter to win KungFuMagazine.com's contest for ALI VS. INOKI: The Forgotten Fight that Inspired Mixed Martial Arts and Launched Sports Entertainment (ngfumagazine.com/sweepstakes-ali-vs-inoki.php) by Josh Gross! Contest ends 5:30 p.m. PST on 7/7/2016

[Jimbo]

Old thread I know, but someone said that Antonio Inoki is half-Brazilian. WRONG. He was originally from a well-off family in Yokohama that fell on hard times and emigrated to Brazil (as did many Japanese families) when he was young. What does "half-Brazilian" even mean, anyway? That's like saying "half-American".

I would rate the 1963 Gene LeBell/Milo Savage fight much higher than the Ali/Inoki "fight" in terms of inspiring "mixed martial arts fights" (in the U.S.). I did hear that after the Inoki match, Ali suffered hematomas in his legs from getting kicked there.

[wiz cool c]

Antonio Inoki won that fight even without allowing grappling. don't think that was a fixed fight, those kicks looked real and didn't look choreographed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5UdMnyms5E

[SteveLau]

Yep, I still remember having watched the video clip on local TV news. Unless there is proof shown, I will not say the fight was fixed. But it was a poor match. The rules of the fight largely dictated its outcome - boxer not allowed to use ground techniques, and the wrestler stays on the ground most of the times.




Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

[mickey]

Greetings,

There was no victor declared. Inoki did not try to take the fight to Ali. If he had done so, things could have been much different. Karl Gotch was in Inoki's corner and was pretty annoyed at Inoki's tactics. It is my opinion that Karl Gotch could have fought both men that evening and ruled. THAT would have been worth seeing.

mickey

[Jimbo]

Of course the match was real, not fixed, other than the fact that Inoki had a TON of restrictions placed on him beforehand. Basically, he was not allowed to do a lot of things. Thus on the rare occasion(s) when they went to the ground (with Ali looking totally helpless), referee Gene LeBell jumped in and broke them up. The rules were essentially in place to protect Ali. Inoki was clearly the bigger and stronger of the two, and I'm convinced that in a match that allowed both of them to play to their full strengths, Inoki would most likely have beaten Ali, fairly quickly. But Ali was an icon and, let's be real here, a cash cow for MANY people who needed to protect their income.

Most of the time, whenever wrestlers and boxers have been matched against each other, the wrestlers beat the boxers. Although I remember seeing a match back in the early '70s between a boxer and a wrestler, where the boxer quickly KO'd the wrestler. I don't know who they were, if they were top guys in their respective sports or not, or if the wrestler had a real amateur background or was strictly a pro wrestler. But mostly it goes to the wrestlers.

Prior to the Ali/Inoki fight, Ali was at a press conference in L.A., and heavyweight karate champion Joe Lewis, who had a wrestling background, was there. The subject of shooting in/taking down came up. Ali invited Lewis into the ring to demonstrate how he would take him down. Lewis faked a high punch, then shot in and (gently) took Ali down. Ali's people were nervous. They tried it a second time, same result, with Ali on his back. Even though Lewis was taking it easy, Ali's people pulled him off of Ali. Ali was surprised by Lewis's strength, noting that Lewis had weight trained. Grapplers in general tend to be stronger than most straight-up boxers anyway, due to the nature of their sport.

[mickey]

Greetings,



Prior to the Ali/Inoki fight, Ali was at a press conference in L.A., and heavyweight karate champion Joe Lewis, who had a wrestling background, was there. The subject of shooting in/taking down came up. Ali invited Lewis into the ring to demonstrate how he would take him down. Lewis faked a high punch, then shot in and (gently) took Ali down. Ali's people were nervous. They tried it a second time, same result, with Ali on his back. Even though Lewis was taking it easy, Ali's people pulled him off of Ali. Ali was surprised by Lewis's strength, noting that Lewis had weight trained. Grapplers in general tend to be stronger than most straight-up boxers anyway, due to the nature of their sport.

I would have LOVED to have seen that. A few years before that, Joe Frazier did something similar to Ali after Ali referred to Joe Frazier as "ignorant" during a commentary session on one of their fights. I remember that Joe Frazier had to be pulled off the guy. Even then, Ali did not learn the lesson.

mickey

[Jimbo]

Greetings,



I would have LOVED to have seen that. A few years before that, Joe Frazier did something similar to Ali after Ali referred to Joe Frazier as "ignorant" during a commentary session on one of their fights. I remember that Joe Frazier had to be pulled off the guy. Even then, Ali did not learn the lesson.

mickey

mickey,

Although he wasn't my favorite fighter to watch, IMO, Ali was a truly great fighter in an era of great fighters, *in the boxing ring*. However, in a mixed-style match, and most likely out on the street/out of his element, his skills didn't really adapt well and he seemed extremely out of place. Contrast him to people like George Foreman, Sonny Liston, etc., who he beat in the ring, but who had considerable street fighting experience even before boxing, and who would almost certainly have fared much better than Ali outside of an organized boxing bout.

Ali seemed well aware of that. I heard a story about Ali/Cassius Clay in his youth (probably pre-Olympics) in which a street fighter/bully kept bothering him to fight on the street. So one day, Ali finally invited the other kid to the boxing gym and basically said, 'We can do it in the ring'. If I remember correctly, Ali put on a boxing clinic and made a fool out of him, after which he never bothered Ali again. I think the story ended by Ali's trainer saying that Ali had taken a big chance, that the other kid would have demolished him in a street brawl, but that Ali was aware of that, and smart enough to know that in the boxing ring, he could run circles around the other kid and box his ears off. And that was enough to scare the other kid off him.

[GeneChing]

See our WINNERS: Ali vs. Inoki by Josh Gross (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?69611-WINNERS-Ali-vs-Inoki-by-Josh-Gross) thread.

[GeneChing]

http://beta.ems.ladbiblegroup.com/s3/content/808x455/f055d0515bf87a23375ff8d96a9dfbc6.png

3 days ago
Shaolin Monk Yi Long To Take Part In A Knockout Only Fight (http://www.sportbible.com/ufc/mma-shaolin-monk-yi-long-to-take-part-in-a-knockout-only-fight-20181123)
Ryan Sidle in UFC

Conor McGregor and Tenshin Nasukawa aren't the only ones that can move sports. Shaolin Monk Yi Long is set to face a Lethwei fighter named 'the most dangerous man in combat sports.'

Changing sports is all the rage these days with kickboxer Tenshin Nasukawa set to drop his kicking prowess in order to face Floyd Mayweather in the ring following on from Conor McGregor's own move into boxing and Usain Bolt's attempt at becoming a footballer.

However that's nothing compared to one kickboxer Yi Long. The Shaolin Monk's most recent kickboxing fight came against 7ft-2 super heavyweight Hong Man Choi, Long is a 5ft-10 middleweight, but resulted in the smaller man coming out on top.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=ERHJzb4yozE continued next post

[GeneChing]

As if that wasn't enough he is now set to face 'the most dangerous man in combat sports,' Dave Leduc.

Leduc is known by his impressive moniker for taking part in the Lethwei discipline, where Leduc is the king of the brutal sport.

Lethwei is known as the world's most brutal sport because the only way to win is by knockout and headbutts are allowed and there's no gloves. You either win by KOing your opponent inside five rounds or it's a draw.

Leduc is set to fight in his sport on December 9th but could next move to MAS to take on The Shaolin Monk, according to Muay Thai Authority.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmZOnlI0hSU
continued next post

[GeneChing]

All these crossover fights are hardly anything new. Muhammad Ali travelled to Japan to take on Antonio Inoki in a hybrid fight in the 1976.

Back in 1976 Ali travelled to Japan to face wrestler Antonio Inoki in a 'special rules' match that was essentially the beginning of MMA as a thing.

The pair fought in a 15 round fight that Ali initially thought was a professional wrestling style 'worked' match but soon found out was a legit contest.

Everyone will be hoping that whatever the rules of the Mayweather vs Nasukawa fight are it'll be a more interesting one than Ali and Inoki's match up, with the Japan Times describing it as, "The 15-round contest was pretty much a bore from start to finish. Ending in a draw, it proved once again that when an apple fights an orange, the results can only be a fruit salad."

http://beta.ems.ladbiblegroup.com/s3/content/c0c1c0025be1458bc8ec864c37a4f588.png
Inoki lands another kick on Muhammad Ali. Image: PA Images

The fight has become infamous for the image of the Japanese man lying on the ground and aiming kicks at the former Olympic champion whilst Ali, then the WBC and WBA heavyweight boxing champion, was only able to land six punches.

Inoki led the scorecards by three points, which seems very a small lead considering how much his opponent was actually able to do, but was docked three points during the fight so it ended a tie.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNY6qjFKrF8

The kicks that landed to Ali's leg led to bleeding and became infected, nearly leading to the American to have his leg amputated.

At the end of the fight fans were so unimpressed that the Nippon Budokan was littered with rubbish that the crowd had thrown towards the ring.

Had to cut this up to get all the vids in.

THREADS: Muhammed Ali vs Martial Artist (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?27442-Muhammed-Ali-vs-Martial-Artist)
Shaolin fighter Yi Long (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?57515-Shaolin-fighter-Yi-Long)

[GeneChing]

Pro-wrestler, politician and hostage negotiator Antonio Inoki dies at 79 (https://www.npr.org/2022/10/01/1126412128/pro-wrestler-politician-and-hostage-negotiator-antonio-inoki-dies-at-79)
October 1, 20224:01 PM ET
JULIANA KIM
https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2022/10/01/gettyimages-453894502-c8f5234bb52c04e9e26c21dad783dedd23cb83ad-s800-c85.webpFormer professional wrestler Antonio Inoki shouts at a press conference in Tokyo on August 21, 2014.
Yoshikazu Tsuno /AFP via Getty Images

Antonio Inoki was revered for never being afraid of a challenge — whether it was dueling heavyweight champion Muhammed Ali or negotiating the release of hostages with the Iraqi government. That's why he was often called "the fighting spirit that burns."

Inoki died at age 79 after battling a rare disease called amyloidosis, his company, New Japan Pro-Wrestling, announced on Saturday.

"His achievements, both in professional wrestling and the global community are without parallel and will never be forgotten," the professional wrestling group wrote in a statement.

Kanji "Antonio" Inoki was born in Yokohama, Japan in 1943 but spent most of his childhood in Brazil where his family relocated. There, Inoki found a passion for professional wrestling and took on the name "Antonio."

He was soon recruited by Rikidozan, one of the the most famous Japanese wrestlers of all time, and returned to Tokyo to join the Japanese Wrestling Association.

Inoki quickly became widely popular for his versatility and charisma in the ring. Years later, he went on to start his own wrestling company in 1972 called New Japan Pro-Wrestling.

Inoki's reached global fame in 1976 when he faced Muhammad Ali in a rare wrestler vs. boxer match in Tokyo. The match became credited for pioneering what is known today as mixed martial arts, where a fighter is allowed to use any style of combat.

https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2022/10/01/gettyimages-3240326-65fb10664a5bf639726e42d8c15aa131875664e2-s800-c85.webp
Heavyweight boxer Muhammad Ali fighting the champion Japanese wrestler Antonio Inoki at Budokan Hall in Tokyo in 1976.
Keystone/Getty Images

Off the ring, Inoki was known for his attempts to forge peace and diplomacy through sports.

In 1990, Inoki was instrumental in freeing 36 Japanese hostages held in Iraq.

During his lifetime, the late wrestler also made more than 30 trips to North Korea, serving as one of Japan's few links to the authoritarian regime. Most notably, Inoki organized two large sporting extravaganza — one in 1995 and another in 2014 — held in Pyongyang to garner international attention.

The first event, known as "Collision in Korea" drew nearly 380,000 spectators and was considered the biggest-pay-per-view in pro-wrestling history.

In 1998, Inoki retired as a wrestler and in 2010, he was inducted to the WWE Hall of Fame. He is technically considered WWE's first-ever Japanese world champion but that title is not yet recognized by the organization.

"Antonio Inoki was among the most respected men in sports-entertainment and a bona fide legend in his homeland," WWE wrote in a statement. "This passion for competition earned him the nickname "Moeru Toukon" amongst his peers, which translates to 'The fighting spirit that burns.'"


Muhammed-Ali-vs-Martial-Artist (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?27442-Muhammed-Ali-vs-Martial-Artist)
Martial-Arts-Politicians (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?65916-Martial-Arts-Politicians)
Professional-Wrestling (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?49901-Professional-Wrestling)