Hard southern styles: are they worth it?

[Jet Johnson]

Before I came to America, I practiced Northern Shaolin for 5 years. After a nine year hiatus, I took up Hung Gar in order to develop power and balance out my skills. After three years of Hung Gar, I started developing joint problems; I paid it no attention, thinking it was just "growing pains." A few months later, I was unable to hold a Horse Stance for more than a minute without feeling unbearable pain. I was forced to quit, since I did not want my Shr Fu to have to train me differently from everyone else. That was a sad, but necessary day.
I have no regrets at having taken up Hung gar, since it taught me to unlock more power. But at the same time, the damage it caused my body will probably last for the rest of my life. I've found out, though, that I am not the only one like this. I've heard of students, and masters of hard southern styles that have damaged their bodies to the point of being cripple in their old age. And I'm not sure there's any liniment or Dit Dat Jow out there potent enough to prevent that from happening.
I'm not dismissing hard southern styles, I am just pointing out that if you feel your body may not be able to sustain the long term ramifications of this type of training, think twice about embarking on that journey.

[jmd161]

Jet Johnson,


I understand what you are saying but i would'nt be quick to blame the art.There are factors that could've caused your problems.

1.You could've been pushing yourself too hard to get the stance down?

2.You could've been doing the stance wrong puting to much stress on your joints?

I also came from a Northern Shaolin background.On top of that i'm a big guy that already had a bad knee.I was always having problems with my knees.But after a yr of which i did nothing more than standing in horse stance for up to an hour.I have'nt had anymore problems with my knees since then.It's 4 yrs later and my knees are still doing fine.

Alot of people do horse stance training wrong.They don't line the knees up with the toes or lean to much forward and don't keep their back up straight.My sifu is in his mid 50's and he has no problem with his knees and still does the deep horse stances.

So there could've been other reasons whay you developed knee problems.I had surgery on my knee many yrs ago and never did rehab it.I was having joint pain problems with it when the weather changed.But since training with my sifu on proper horse stance i have no pain anymore in my knee.I've even taken a kick to that knee while in a deep horse stance from my sifu without any problems.


jeff:)

[hasayfu]

I can attest that Hung Gar done properly will not cause body damage. In fact it should make you stronger. Look to Chiu Wai (http://www.hunggar.republika.pl/mistrzang.html) as a role model. He is a pure Hung Gar man. I believe he is 71 in the pictures on this page. I hosted him for a week. I can tell you he is not showing any signs of body damage. His father was doing Hung Gar to age 100. He worked out the morning he died.

I also look to Lum Jo. SiGung is 93 and still doing Hung Gar. When I had Dim Sum with him and we walked to the restaurant, his steps were effortless and I found myself almost jogging to keep up.

That said, I see a lot of Hung Gar schools in the states that do what I term Shaw Bros Kung Fu. They do not adhere to the basic principles of TCMA and this is very bad for the body.

Sorry to hear about your knees. It's terrible to have to go through life with that. I have a bad knee and lower back from my TKD days. (The 30lbs I added over the year doesn't help either LOL) I don't blame the system, just my mis-placed enthusiasm and too many MA movies.

[David Jamieson]

inconsistent or incorrect practice will cause problems.

improper diet and lifestyle can also greatly hinder you health wise.

find a balance and know your limit. you will grow with time and practice in any skill. be diligent in how you "feel" your body both statically and in motion. there is always time to correct bad habits at any point in your life.

always ask the questions that you need to ask.

cheers

[Gold Horse Dragon]

Southern styles being hard is a misperception. Having also taken Tai Chi and Ba Gua, I can assure you their training is no less difficult or 'hard' if you prefer to use that term (if taught as the martial art it is) than the southern style I do. Correct training is correct training and wrong training is wrong training. I have seen Tai Chi guys with knee and back problems caused by incorrect training (barring accicents).

GHD

[Cody]

In agreement with the others. Any of the martial arts I have studied have aided my health immeasureably. I wasn't ready for isometrics for a long time, and I didn't do them. When I was ready, that improved me beyond my dreams. I also agree that the hard/soft division is misleading. There is plenty of softness in Hung Ga; without it, one's destroys the body instead of building it up. Maybe that's what happened to you. And, yes, it could be there are other causes involved, such as an illness which has been progressing in the background. Arthritis can be sneaky.

I overcame illness and handicap, within reason. Any downfall I have suffered has been due to being attacked, not the work itself.

Done properly, martial arts study heals and strengthens, and helps to make one more aware of one's limits before causing injury because you become more body aware.

I am sorry that you are in such pain. I certainly know that situation well.

Cody

[supergabey]

I'll have to attest to the beneficial values of hung gar as well. My uncle visited in his 80's and was healthier and spry than everyone in my family really. :) Also now that I been studying, my knee problems have all but vanished. I used to be unable to sit in a car too long due to a motorocycle accident. My kneecap is still loose tho. :(

[TenTigers]

I think the fact that your teacher in Hung-Ga calls himself Shr-fu is a clue. Mixing terninology of different dialects might indicate a less than traditional system.

[neit]

dunno, i only studied hung gar for a short time but i never felt any pains. i still practice the "arm-swinging" techniques every day and find they always leave me feeling stronger, yet looser and more relaxed. i find them especially useful before and after free-weights, rowing, or my kendo practice. i'll even just do them after work or school just to kinda work the kinks out.

[neit]

oh also like supergabey my knee problems have vanished. my physiotherapist gave me some boring exercises to strenthen my muscles and tendons(in order to relieve stress upon by rough cartilage) but i neglected them. luckily using low stances such as horse-stance does the same job.