Yo Iron, Fordperfect and anyone [Archive]

Arhat of Fury

12-30-2003, 09:02 PM

Do you think that due to genetics, some people may not be able to attain a 6 pack.

Reason I ask is I have been at this for over 10 years bulkin up and trimmin down tryin to retain some mass and gettin to a 6 pack, but I only get a 4 pack.

There seems to be this layer at the bottom of the stomach that just wont go away.

I've been training for over 3 years in conjuction with weights, kickboxing, cardio kickboxing, mountain bike riding and basket ball(not all at same time of course).

I've used mathematically portions of food, I've ate barely anything and I eat real healthy. It seems when I'm almost there, my body adapts to the training, even if I switch some things around and then resets to my normal bodyfat, which lies around 13.5% give or take, but its all on the bottom of the stomach.

Sorry for the run on, when I was training tonight , I was thinking about this?

any insight is appreciated.

Arhat

Cung-Fu

12-31-2003, 04:19 AM

Yes I think so.

Same thing with people who run miles on end and they are still a little chubby.

Ford Prefect

12-31-2003, 11:45 AM

Hey Arhat,

While there really isn't a genetic factor stopping anybody from obtaining a 6-pack, there sure are genetic factors that can make it a hell of lot harder for some people. Depending on body type and genetic disposition for storing fat in adipose tissue, it can be really hard for some people to lose that layer of fat over their abdominal wall. I'll link to a story for now since I'm busy at work. I'll write more later, but please read the article and the articles that are linked inside it (specifically the "Don't Diet" and "Running Man" ones) and come back with some questions.

http://www.t-mag.com/nation_articles/256beast.jsp

This guy is 100% for real.

IronFist

12-31-2003, 12:33 PM

Also don't forget that abdominal shape is a genetic factor. Ever notice how in some people's 6-packs the muscles are side by side, and in other people they are kind of staggered? That's not a results of training, that's just a result of how your muscle is shaped genetically.

I'm just trying to say that everyone's genetics are a bit different. Ford helped you more, tho. Read the articles he linked to, I'm sure they're good, too. (I'll read them when I have more time later).

Good luck.

Pork Chop

12-31-2003, 12:38 PM

Man...

That article's really got me wanting to look into the Fat Fast...

I remember the creator of it having a bad incident with glazed donuts that eventually took him off of it, but it seems like a good way to get some quick gains (losses), get some momentum going, and get some confidence to work for some more.

At least Fat Fast is pre-programmed; gives me some time to get over my laziness in logging my food & nutrition values- probably my biggest problem to date.

Arhat of Fury

12-31-2003, 01:30 PM

Those articles were very interesting and enlightening.

This definately opens my eyes to a new style of training and new rules to dieting. I'm also going to get more salmon into my diet. I'm not to keen on pill popping cause I look at the long haul. Do I want to pop a sleuth of pills at 50 yrs old. If I try to consume it naturally now then I can keep the same physique (somewhat) as I get older with no real wiening off period.

I am going to try this to see how it works. I like his approach to engery training workouts, with running the track for sprints instead of doing low intensity long period "fat burning" workouts.

I personally like training in the higher intensity workouts rather than the long haul low intensity.

Also, his do's and dont of combining fats and carbs was something new.(enzymatic breakdown maybe??)

One question I do have is,Is fat that has been there for a longer period of time, harder to get rid of.
Does fat burning observe the FIFO(fresh in fresh out) theory. Or is it a random thing?

Thanks

Arhat

Ford Prefect

12-31-2003, 03:02 PM

Not as far as I know. You may be predisposed to burn fat from some adipose tissue before others. Like you might burn more fat from your thighs than your stomach... Same goes for storing fat. In my experience, the place you are more predisposed to store fat is usally the last place the body goes to to burn it...

rubthebuddha

12-31-2003, 05:25 PM

stupid lovehandles. :mad:

Arhat of Fury

12-31-2003, 05:54 PM

thanks fordperfect.

rubthebuddha-lol

iron, I am curious to hear your thoughts?>?

Adipose and adipex..hmmmm....

IronFist

01-03-2004, 01:10 PM

I don't really know anything else that hasn't been said already. Ford knows more about this stuff than me, anyway.

Arhat of Fury

01-03-2004, 02:00 PM

Cool, well thanks for the input guys

Much appreciated.

blooming lotus

01-03-2004, 03:09 PM

giving oneself the excuse of pre-disposition is self-defeating. If your moma was fat, and your daddy was fat, and your granddaddy was fat, that does NOT give you any excuse to be fat! Live life without limits, live your ideal life as your ideal self and accept nothing to the opposite. It was recently said by the Abbot Shi Yong Xin, that confidence is paramount. Don't wonder if it's possible, know it is ...then find a way to make that statement true.

NO LIMIT!!!!!

IronFist

01-03-2004, 05:59 PM

^ Actually genetics play a pretty big role. I can maintain 8% bodyfat without much effort, but if someone told me I had to bulk up to 300lbs I couldn't do it. It's not a matter of will power or how much I would want to weigh 300lbs, it's a matter of my metabolism will not allow me to weigh that much.

Now, you're right in the fact that a lot of people blame genetics for the shape they're in when they're just being lazy, but it's not always true.

blooming lotus

01-03-2004, 06:38 PM

You "couldn't" ha? We don't do "can't" at our house. "Can't" doesn't exist.

("what about cannot...." says my daughter. lol, no it doesn't make a difference if you say it more politely) What you're really saying is wont. I'm sure if you changed your whole lifestyle, it would be doable.

You can do it jimmy...you can do it jimmy :eek:

rubthebuddha

01-04-2004, 01:23 AM

blooming lotus -- ironfist's metabolism is sickeningly fast. his arms would get tired before he ate enough food to gain that much weight. :D

truly, we'd probably have to inject fat into his body to get him to gain more than 10 lbs. either that, or we could give him a silicon belly implant. ;)

rubthebuddha

01-04-2004, 02:26 AM

two previous posts were removed cause a couple folks weren't playing nicely. i originally closed the thread, but then i just decided to be the despot and remove the naughty talk. both posters are indeed upstanding chaps, so don't worry about that.

now, you better all play nicely. this isn't the wing chun forum, so don't make me get sandman to moderate your asses. ;)

Toby

01-04-2004, 07:23 PM

What'd I miss? :( :D I like the funny stuff.

blooming lotus

01-04-2004, 07:59 PM

Originally posted by rubthebuddha
blooming lotus -- ironfist's metabolism is sickeningly fast. his arms would get tired before he ate enough food to gain that much weight. :D

truly, we'd probably have to inject fat into his body to get him to gain more than 10 lbs. either that, or we could give him a silicon belly implant. ;)

lol..
you guys are full-of-it...

In honesty though, my BMI rides between 16ish - 18.5ish.......overrange is another story, but when your adding internal practice...better 46 kgs of iron than 100 of rubber ;)

IronFist

01-04-2004, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by blooming lotus

lol..
you guys are full-of-it...

Um, no. Not everyone falls in the middle of the bell curve.

In honesty though, my BMI rides between 16ish - 18.5ish.......overrange is another story, but when your adding internal practice...better 46 kgs of iron than 100 of rubber ;)

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

You can't go by BMI. According to BMI I'm overweight. You've all seen my pics. I win. Thanks for playing.

blooming lotus

01-04-2004, 09:57 PM

Yup,............I saw them ....and I am doing no bul*sh*t private ego war with you ......

but if I was, right about now I would be RFLMFAO........

You're right though, BMI charts were created from a western medincinal psychology( which as far I as I a concerned is incomplete and uninformed), but I still can't condone overweightedness, you put presure on various systems (most westererns aren't even aware exist) unnccessarily comprimising performance ..............

(steeling for restraint) hm hm....You are wide open for some serious funny As*ed comments here ......but someone's gotta stay grown and besides, ... I hate being gnarly.
Cheers, love your work;)

Vash

01-04-2004, 11:11 PM

;)

FatherDog

01-04-2004, 11:18 PM

Originally posted by blooming lotus
Yup,............I saw them ....and I am doing no bul*sh*t private ego war with you ......

but if I was, right about now I would be RFLMFAO........

You're right though, BMI charts were created from a western medincinal psychology( which as far I as I a concerned is incomplete and uninformed), but I still can't condone overweightedness, you put presure on various systems (most westererns aren't even aware exist) unnccessarily comprimising performance ..............

(steeling for restraint) hm hm....You are wide open for some serious funny As*ed comments here ......but someone's gotta stay grown and besides, ... I hate being gnarly.
Cheers, love your work;)

:rolleyes:

IronFist

01-04-2004, 11:48 PM

Originally posted by blooming lotus
You're right though, BMI charts were created from a western medincinal psychology( which as far I as I a concerned is incomplete and uninformed),

They were created for normal, sedentary people. Not athletes.

but I still can't condone overweightedness, you put presure on various systems (most westererns aren't even aware exist) unnccessarily comprimising performance ..............

Yeah, in extreme cases being muscle bound is pretty unhealthy. What various systems are you speaking of that westerners aren't aware of? Off the top of my head, I'd say carrying around too much muscle would be overly taxing on the cardiovascular and nervous systems, and lets not forget the poor colon which must process all that extra food. And then if you want to make the argument of the muscles having to propel all that extra weight I'd even accept that. So far those are all things westerners are aware of. What else? Qi blockages and excess yang and heat from too much food metabolizing in the blood?

(steeling for restraint) hm hm....You are wide open for some serious funny As*ed comments here ......but someone's gotta stay grown and besides, ... I hate being gnarly.
Cheers, love your work;)

No, please, lets hear your "funny As*ed comments." If you can't prove me wrong with science and anatomy arguments, maybe you can at least get a good shot or two in with insults :D

blooming lotus

01-04-2004, 11:57 PM

You know what? I'm not even interested in proving you wrong, so I'm just going to hang my head in Shame

scotty1

01-05-2004, 06:30 AM

Cop out:) Better luck next time.

Vash

01-05-2004, 07:41 AM

I'm the only one who gets to hang my head in shame!

Pork Chop

01-05-2004, 08:12 AM

Man, if I didn't know any better, I'd say blooming lotus was a sifu of mine... tells you a little of why i'm finished with the tcmas...

Gotta agree with Iron, just because hard workouts and a "normal" diet keep you in real good shape, doesn't mean it works for everyone the same way. If I ate like Iron, my brother, or my dad, working out as often as them, I'd probably hit 300 pounds. In order just to stay under 200 I gotta eat like a rabbit.

IronFist

01-05-2004, 05:50 PM

Originally posted blooming lotus
You know what? I'm not even interested in proving you wrong, so I'm just going to hang my head in Shame

Why, cuz I'm right? :D

I try not to be a dick unless provoked.

If we could post pics here I'd post a nice "0wn3d" one, tho :D

Anyway, I don't care about being right as much as I care about correct information being posted.

Toby

01-05-2004, 07:36 PM

Why not just post the pics from the thread about you getting owned? :D

IronFist

01-05-2004, 10:10 PM

^ lol, I definately got owned in those pics. Especially the one where I'm getting rolled by my neck. Ouch.

rubthebuddha

01-05-2004, 11:01 PM

just cause someone had to do it:

ironfist (http://www.alcofielen.com/pics/forumpics/peopleSUCK/owned/ownedbaby.jpg) ;)

blooming lotus

01-09-2004, 03:11 AM

I'm honored, but really, I think Iron deserves it more because between you and I ..........................................

rubthebuddha

01-09-2004, 10:56 AM

:confused:

IronFist

01-09-2004, 04:00 PM

Yeah, wtf?

blooming lotus

01-09-2004, 05:02 PM

Well, It's something like this,.....

Getting a little sick of idiots riding this board with their egos blazing trying to claim their gungfu is good when to be honest dude from the photos I can tell you straight up, I saw gaps myself and would've have you owned. Was prepared to let it ride until I saw that owned pic ( unless that was for you comically at falling to the other dudes in which case I will appologise for being defensive).....and man, you're one of the better artists here ......

blooming lotus

01-09-2004, 05:04 PM

Vash

01-09-2004, 09:36 PM

BL

Once you get over yourself, things will probably be less bumpy.

Course, that's just cuz you'd stop bouncing over your head.

IronFist

01-09-2004, 10:00 PM

Getting a little sick of idiots riding this board with their egos blazing trying to claim their gungfu is good

Haha, no one talks about gung fu on this forum. It's all weight lifting and working out stuff. And I've never seen anyone here say they were good. :confused:

when to be honest dude from the photos I can tell you straight up, I saw gaps myself and would've have you owned

What gaps? You mean the gaps in your knowledge that cause you to think that a six-pack of abs is created through "several thousand ab excercises a day?"

Was prepared to let it ride until I saw that owned pic ( unless that was for you comically at falling to the other dudes in which case I will appologise for being defensive).....and man, you're one of the better artists here ......

Oh wait, are you talking about me getting beaten in the fights I posted pics of on the main forum? If so, when did the conversation switch over to that? No one is talking about fighting in this thread. :confused: Ok, see, usually a thread deals with a single topic. Um, this thread was talking about getting ripped abs, and then you started giving biologically incorrect advice, and then I called you on it, and then you got all defensive. So, another wtf? If you want to talk about how I'm a crappy fighter, start it's own thread in the proper forum. I won't disagree. Ohh, I suck. Me with my 2 months experience lost to people with years of experience. What did you expect?

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

blooming lotus

01-09-2004, 10:37 PM

No, this thread was talking about peoples limiting beliefs and some chick who wanted to loose weight but still go high cardio. (i' not checking again, but I'm pertty sho tat's what we wee talking about.

You know I never said that 1000 reps is gonna get you a six pack, its more like an eight pack and I would've said 3000 ( because that's what I do daily).

Before you rflao, I know how that sounds because by doing that you should technically be in an anaerobic state right, and what good is that to someone who wants to burn fat and gain endurance? :rolleyes:

As for you NOT saying your gungfu was good...fair enough ...I guess you didn't

as for getting over myself ...Vash,..............NEVER!!!!!! and dude................don't hate me caus I'm smart AND purty . No really, whose ego is it that says I'm wrong when I'm smarter and have more education than over 95% of people in my country? The definition of intellegence is asking more questions but I guess some people just aren't prepared to do that. I hate close mindedness and limitting thoughts.

Beauty is skin deep, and a good body is a bi-product of having it work to its best, but I did make a few dollars modelling not so far back. Before anyone jumps to conclusions, I know there are alot of folks with gungfu better than me, as someone not on the competition circuit, it's just hard to find is all., for the reason that gungfu is more than martial application. Hate me if you gotta....

IronFist

01-09-2004, 11:15 PM

Originally posted by blooming lotus
You know I never said that 1000 reps is gonna get you a six pack, its more like an eight pack and I would've said 3000 ( because that's what I do daily).

Before you rflao, I know how that sounds because by doing that you should technically be in an anaerobic state right, and what good is that to someone who wants to burn fat and gain endurance? :rolleyes:

Hmm, then how do you explain all the fat people who do 3000 or so reps of abs a day and don't lose any weight and are still fat?

I'll discuss physiological theory all day.

Toby

01-09-2004, 11:34 PM

Originally posted by blooming lotus
You know I never said that 1000 reps is gonna get you a six pack, its more like an eight pack and I would've said 3000 ( because that's what I do daily).

Before you rflao, I know how that sounds because by doing that you should technically be in an anaerobic state right, and what good is that to someone who wants to burn fat and gain endurance? :rolleyes:
3000 reps anaerobic? You've got it wrong. Anaerobic means "without oxygen". Gunna do 3000 reps without breathing?

blooming lotus

01-09-2004, 11:41 PM

Actually, anaerobis energy system is what kicks in when you work over long preiods and as for not breathing...pls see the benifits of cntrolled oxygen deprivation ala ninjitsu meditation techniques

and the guy is probably still fat cause he eats too any twinkies or something

Toby

01-09-2004, 11:43 PM

Sorry, you're very wrong. But from now on, I'll just try to take everyone else's advice and try to stop feeding the troll.

blooming lotus

01-09-2004, 11:47 PM

dude that's just disrespectful.
The only troll here is ignorance and your right cause I'm not playing either.

;)

blooming lotus

01-10-2004, 12:22 AM

but before I go.......

maybe I was wrong on the over a long period thing, unless your using different muscles in short intense bursts, which is why I said it's important to work your abs at different angles and speeds. Your right, It is oxygen deprivation, but I'm not wrong...I guess you just misinterperated what I said

Toby

01-10-2004, 12:27 AM

Originally posted by blooming lotus
maybe I was wrong ... but I'm not wrong ... I guess you just misinterperated what I said
Whatever ...

I didn't misinterpret anything. Tell me what I misunderstood about this:

Originally posted by blooming lotus
You know I never said that 1000 reps is gonna get you a six pack, its more like an eight pack and I would've said 3000 ( because that's what I do daily).

Before you rflao, I know how that sounds because by doing that you should technically be in an anaerobic state right, and what good is that to someone who wants to burn fat and gain endurance?

What I understood was you were saying that doing 3000 (or 1000) reps would be anaerobic exercise. Were you not saying that? I called that as wrong. Not wanting to get into (another) argument, just clarifying the meaning of anaerobic.

IronFist

01-10-2004, 12:37 AM

which is why I said it's important to work your abs at different angles and speeds

Um. Your muscles don't care what "angle" they're being worked from. Neither can they tell what angle they're being worked from. Either they're contracting or they're not. All or nothing. That's how a muscle works. The idea that you need to work muscles from different angles is left over from old, incorrect bodybuilding theory.

blooming lotus

01-10-2004, 12:37 AM

if you read the rest of the thread particulary where I was explaining how those reps should be executed, you'd know where the misinterpretation came from..cheers for pulling me up on it though ;)

stubbs

01-10-2004, 03:05 AM

BL, just out of curiosity can you post a pic of your 8 pack? i just wanna see what sort of mid section you can gain from 3000 ab exercises a day?

ironfist, im still relatively new to learning exercise science. i was under the impression angles do matter. i thought most strength was gained at whatever angle or ROM the muscle was worked at, or are you taking it purely from a bodybuilding prospective? are incline or decline bench presses any different to a flat bench press in this respect?

cheers,

stubbs
________
MASTURBATION FINGERING (http://www.****tube.com/categories/750/fingering/videos/1)

blooming lotus

01-10-2004, 03:27 AM

additionally certain iron body techniques specialise in this sort of energy storage and control, in fact I'm sure there was an e-zine article not so long ago describing how mindblowing it was that a little chinese man could turn any limb, muscle or part of from liquid to iron instantaniously. Please feel free to open your minds, there are many facts, tips, tricks and "secrets" out there that none of us have which improve our game and condradict our current knowledge. This Fact is comon knowledge ;)

Toby

01-10-2004, 06:36 AM

Originally posted by stubbs
ironfist, im still relatively new to learning exercise science. i was under the impression angles do matter. i thought most strength was gained at whatever angle or ROM the muscle was worked at, or are you taking it purely from a bodybuilding prospective? are incline or decline bench presses any different to a flat bench press in this respect?
Angles matter in that loads can have a different effect depending on where they are applied from. E.g. in your example, incline bench will transfer more work to your anterior deltoids (off your pectorals). Decline, I don't remember offhand exactly what it affects most. But flat, incline and decline don't work "upper" and "lower" pecs ;) differently. With the abdominal exercises, angles may matter insofar as which muscles are worked. The rectus abdominus isn't the only abdominal muscle. There's also internal and external obliques and the transverse abdominus. Also the group of muscles referred to as the hip flexors. Different angles will work each muscle differently. But at the end of the day, each individual muscle can't tell which angle it's being worked from. Like Iron said.

I know what you're talking about re the ROM and strength. Like when people do a quarter bench or squat as opposed to a full ROM. The effects are different, but only (if I understand correctly) in that you are talking about complex compound movements. E.g. Iron does full squats, I do powerlifting squats. He might have some stronger muscles in the hip or somewhere since I know I'd have difficulty in going all the way down with his weights, even though I squat more than him. With bench, you want to improve around your sticking point (typically fairly low down). At that point, you might need to concentrate on e.g. triceps and lats, whereas if you did 1/4 benches most of the weight will be lifted by your pectorals. Get what I'm saying? I suck at explaining it (and I'm probably wrong, anyway). Ask Ford.

Vash

01-10-2004, 06:53 AM

BL

Hello ignore list.

stubbs

01-10-2004, 09:08 AM

thanks vash! that clears a few things up.

how does ROM apply to ab and core strength? i've been doing pretty much nothing but crunches for my abs over the last couple of years after being told sit ups can be bad ( i can't remember why). last night i had a go at doing some sit ups in amongst some other core excercises and the sit ups were killing me. it was great! can someone remind me why sit ups were thought to be bad?
________
Lesbian Threesome (http://www.****tube.com/categories/745/threesome/videos/1)

IronFist

01-10-2004, 12:23 PM

Actually...

There is a difference between incline bench and flat bench. Technically speaking, the pectoral muscles have two heads. The "lower pecs," or Sternal head, and the "upper pecs," or Clavical head. Because these are seperate heads with their own insertion points, they can be targeted a little bit differently.

Now that that's been said, for any given muscle head, there is no difference in the angle that you work it at. Different angles may place more or less stress on it and therefore work it more or less, but the only thing the angle changes with regard to a particular muscle is the amount of stress placed on it.

For bench press, for example, the more inclined you get the more stress is placed on the anterior deltoids and the less stress is placed on the pecs. Within the pecs group, the more inclined you get the more work the Clavical head does and the less work the Sternal head does. But this is because those are two different heads within the same muscle.

With abs, there is only one head, so that's why you can't work upper or lower.

You probably already know this principle... your biceps have two heads. That's why they're called "biceps." Your triceps have three heads... "triceps."

The general rule is that for any muscle group with different heads, you can change the relative stress placed on each one. But for any given head, you cannot change the stress placed on different parts of it.

I pretty much already wrote a whole thread on this. Read this (http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=17790) and if you have anymore questions then ask.

blooming lotus

01-10-2004, 04:14 PM

VASH..............Ignore list? ......Like I've ever tried to pm or mail you idiot.

I could go back over some charts and explain further and even though you're slowly coming to undrestand aspects of what I' saying, this is getting tiring so I wont. Technical explaination aside, all I know is what my body does, what it looks like when it does it and what according to other peoples pics and clips recently posted, theirs do.
Why are so many people around here so freakin childish ?!?

Oh and Stubbs, about the pic...I'm sure you would...............I could get cute here guys but remember, this is all I do to the exclusion of everything else, besides study and work my business plans. This is no hobby, it's life. Hold your heads up and take it easy folks ;)

Vash

01-10-2004, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by stubbs
thanks vash! that clears a few things up.

Maybe you meant Iron Fist. I'm about the least helpful dude on this board.

And the fact that you insinuated that I helped you is insulting. I challenge you to a death match!

stubbs

01-11-2004, 02:05 PM

death match? pah! be a man and fight me in a thumb war! (best of 3 wins) :D

you did help me vash. i think i was assuming angle affected strength in the same way as ROM.

thanks for the info ironfist....im gonna read through your thread later on.

BL

Technical explaination aside, all I know is what my body does, what it looks like when it does it and what according to other peoples pics and clips recently posted, theirs do.

thats what i was hoping to do with your pic. just wanted to see if it would be worth me considering to do 3000 reps
________
Medical Marijuana (http://dispensaries.org/)

blooming lotus

01-11-2004, 02:35 PM

Look, I used to do a shiete load of abs with not so great results, then several yrs ago I came by an ab-rocker then an ab-doer ( created by john ab-do) and not only did I all of a sudden start getting results higher than any of my expectations, my whole way of understanding my core function changed. The abdoer is a seated piece of equipment but I use it at different inclines, declines and twisted angles planted by different vertebrae with diferrent amounts of resistence. For me, It was extremely hard to simulate these movements without first understanding it by using this machine and experimenting with different techniques. I also around the same time, discovered pilates, which again took my core stregth and flexibilty to a crazy new level and my body has never looked back. I was always at the top of fitness achievement prior, but this knowledge is irreplaceable, and I appologise if you're not undestanding the applications I'm describing......

I do have some snaps of my fab abs but A. I'd have to dig them out and B. Have you got any idea how much $$$ I get for pics like that.....Honestly, it's the kind of thing that gets me stalked...."excuse miss, U're so purty, can I touch you?" etc etc

I don't know, good luck with your workout :)

IronFist

01-11-2004, 04:50 PM

I've never seen a chick with an 8-pack.

B. Have you got any idea how much $$$ I get for pics like that.....Honestly, it's the kind of thing that gets me stalked...."excuse miss, U're so purty, can I touch you?" etc etc

lol. I guess you can't go to a beach then cuz someone might see your abs. Also it sounds like if you were to go to a beach you'd charge everyone to look at you. :rolleyes:

ComeToJesus

01-12-2004, 01:10 PM

I do have some snaps of my fab abs but A. I'd have to dig them out and B. Have you got any idea how much $$$ I get for pics like that.....Honestly, it's the kind of thing that gets me stalked...."excuse miss, U're so purty, can I touch you?" etc etc

Wow, that is one of the dumber things I've seen someone say/write.
I'm not saying what you've said in previous posts is dumb, but that there is a winner. Or should I say loser?
You've either got nothing, and are a fake, or you've got some issues.

EDIT: And what's all this talk about an "8" pack. There's no such thing.