Northern Shaolin is the best style- hands down

[shipalohan]

I have to say that Northern Shaolin kung fu is it. If you know n. shaolin kung fu you know everything because that is where it really started. There are throws, locks, strike, kicks, everything. Other kung fu styles just added to the shaolin regimen. If you learn n. shaolin then you can learn anything because it has everything.

P.s. and to the other posts traditional kung fu style were made in war, streets, competition etc. Not just in one.

[JHWSS]

I have been trainning in kung fu san soo for 2 years. My school just closed and san soo is kinda on the down side in my area, no one else is teaching it in my area. So me and a friend of mine that I trainned with have been looking around. We want to continue with kung fu and we called several schools about northern shaolin longfist. My buddy is sort of sketchy about it and thinnks it will take years to learn. I would just like to know what it is like, and how long it would take to be able to use it on the street and if it is just a lot of hand forms. Thanks.

[nospam]

Dat's strange...cause my momma done told me TKD RUleZ! ****ed ssssssskippy.

[The Whyzyrd]

Well, let's see. I studied Lung Jop Pai for six years. That is a northern shaolin kung fu style. Since then, I have been studying Hung Ga Kung Fu (almost two years now) which is a southern kung fu style.

I don't know if I would say that Northern Shaolin has it all. You are correct that NSKF has a lot. Lung Jop Pai has throws, locks, strikes, kicks, blocks, and takedowns. It works in both the long bridge (its primary range) and short bridge. It has elements of ba gua (sp) for ground routines. It has all of the primary weapons (pole, spear, kwan do, broadsword, long sword, even the garden hoe). It boasts straight line attacks and angular attacks and circular attacks. I even learned a form with one foot planted in one spot called a single flower form (I suppose in case I'm chained to a bench).

With all of that I find that the Hung Ga is a more effective system. The attacks are more direct and more efficient. The system itself is far more aggressive (no, it doesn't teach to go out and start fights - it teaches us that if we do get into a fight - finish it!)

The northern systems (from what little I know of them) tend to be more spiritual whereas the southern tend to be more aggressive. In Hung Ga we also have throws, locks, strikes, kicks, blocks, and takedowns. It works in both the long bridge and short bridge (its primary range). It has elements of ba gua (sp) for ground routines. It has all of the primary weapons (pole, spear, kwan do, broadsword, long sword - not the hoe). It boasts straight line attacks and angular attacks and circular attacks. It has all of the elements of Northern Shaolin Kung Fu.


Shipalohan, you said, "Other kung fu styles just added to the shaolin regimen." That's progress.

[HuangKaiVun]

I've studied Hung Ga and Northern Shaolin extensively.

For me, Northern Shaolin is it.

That's because Northern Shaolin has that circular spinning philosophy that gives you the flying mobility to run away, hit using your body's momentum, and fight multiple opponents at once.

I practice Wing Lam's Kuo Yu Cheong kung fu, and I've done some slight personal modifications to the sets to include everything that I've learned from other arts along the way. I can do this with the Northern Shaolin system, I can't always do this with other arts.

I didn't become an effective fighter until I started training Northern Shaolin.

[shipalohan]

How can the Hung-gar style be better? It originates from the northern shaolin temple. It is a combination of tiger and crane. A Tiger is a very agressive fighter that goes through oppponents when fighting. A crane redirects, and attacks and attacks untile the assaliant cannot do anything. A leopard fights close, he does not come to you you come to him when fighting, a snake is supple able to wrap itself around an opponent etc. A dragon is all the animals: the wings of the crane, ferociousness of a tiger etc. It is not necessary looking like the animal than acting like the animal.

[kenpoman]

"How can the Hung-gar style be better? It originates from the northern shaolin temple."

Isn't this akin to badmouthing a Japanese car considering the source is a Ford? If this is an acceptable argument, then I'd like to introduce Kalarypayat into the discussion....the origin of Northern Shaolin.

Cheers all.

[JHWSS]

Whyzyrd,
I agree with you about progress. Have you ever seen san soo?

Huangkaivun,

I shun you! You could not become an effective until you trainned in NS. Just with my boxing skills I could defend myself well against another fighter. It isnt always the style its the individual.

[HuangKaiVun]

NS works for my 5'4" 130 lb body against opponents a foot taller at at least 100 lbs heavier.

I can't say the same for boxing, HG, or any other art I've tried.

But if boxing works for you, go for it!

[8stepsifu]

Better than Tai Chi, Ba Gua, Hsing I,Praying Mantis CLF etc? I wouldn't say "THE" best, but its definately one of the better systems out there. /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

8Step Sifu

[shimera]

different styles work for different ppl. first i'd like to say shaolin kung fu period is superior, to other styles of kung fu and virtually all over MA... but then this is my opinion, and i doupt someone practicing karate would share it.

secondly southern is awsome, but the difference between northern and southern is not that drastic. so grow up.
and most importantly genius. shoalin kung fu started in the honan temple which is allmost vertically right in the middle of china maybe leaning a little toward south...

[kenpoman]

..."and i doupt someone practicing karate would share it."

You're right!

[shimera]

duh, of course i'm not so immature that i can't look at see someone else's point of view.

[totallyfrozen]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I have to say that Northern Shaolin kung fu is it. If you know n. shaolin kung fu you know everything because that is where it really started.[/quote]

Uh....ok. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

"There is only ONE karate"

[8stepsifu]

The myth of shaolin is that *poof* it was created overnight to perfection and the myth of bjj and modern mixed MA is that they are doing something new. Shaolin became the best out there for a long time. Now??? I think any one of the talkers here could kick the wushu posers around. Shaolin Style is very good and I think I remember hearing something about Master Sun's hardest fight being against a traditionally trained Shaolin figher. I have a little news for ya. Most of the awesome kung fu practitioners have a daoist attitude. That means they're happy go lucky and don't give a about much. Including ego building over the net. Shut up...practice...we may hear from you again when you develop some skill

8Step Sifu

[shimera]

i'm not trying to put you down or anything but that wass the shoddiest paragraph i've ever read. you threw enough idea's to fill 4 pages into 12 sentences... i could barely see the point you where trying to make. if you are going to share your opinion with us do it clearly plz so we can understand.

[8stepsifu]

sorry, thats how all my first drafts are. I'll actually read it before posting next time. /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

8Step Sifu

[Brad]

Ha! You all know modern longfist is best! Give me a room full of wires and I'll show you what real a real fighter can do! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[kenpoman]

'duh, of course i'm not so immature that i can't look at see someone else's point of view.'

You may look at someone else's point of view, but you already made up your mind as to what is superior...might as well not waste your time looking.

[shimera]

ok then, i believe that shoalin kung fu hands down is supier to all others. and if you train traditionally you will become a very very very skilled fighter.

[reemul]

There is no such style as Northern Shaolin Kung fu. Northern Shaolin kung fu is a global classification under which many systems that were developed at the Shaolin temple fell under such as: Northern shaolin Tiger, Northern Shaolin Mantis,....crane,....eagle, etc. If you were told otherwise then you were learning something less than Shaolin Kungfu.undefined

[LowFist]

Whats the point of arguing of the supieriority of on style as opposed to another, from any point of view every syle has advantages and disadvantages, why should pride get in the way of progress? If you all think each one of your individual styles are so much better than the next, why don't you take the time to share your views on the other styles and the possible explotation of weaknesses in order to lead to the progression of all styles. Martial Arts folks aren't a dime a dozen, why should pety pried divide what could be a tight knit community?

[reemul]

I not inerrested in the topic myself, just had to
correct the misunderstanding of Shaolin kung fu.http://wink

[LowFist]

i was just saying generally, nothin personal towards one person or another, but the entire group! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[beiquan]

there is indeed a style called "northern shaolin" kung fu, it was created by grandmaster ku yu cheung (gu ru zhang), one of the teachers at the nanjing guoshu institute in its early days, and includes techniques from shaolin, cha, tan tui, and other northern styles. he named the style bei shao lin or bak sil lum.

however, the term 'northern shaolin' is also commonly used, as you say, to refer to a bunch of different northern styles.

peace

[This message was edited by beiquan on 11-16-00 at 07:37 PM.]

[NorthernShaolin]

Besides Ch'a and Tan Tui styles, Northern Shaolin also contained techniques from Hua, Pao, Wah and Hung (Red) styles. Nothern Shaolin was named as such in honor of these northern shaolin styles. These styles are sometimes referred to as the Mother Styles of Nortyern Shaolin. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[jojitsu27]

Wing Chun Kung Fu has the short range power you need for a street fight. Wing Chun has the low kicks, parries based on physics and body structure (not strength), and is quicker and more aggressive than northern Kung Fu styles.
It is quicker because it is all linear, and we all know the quickest route to a target is a straight line not a circle. But in that linear movement it has amazing power because of its joint unity.
-jojitsu27

[reemul]

Apparently you don't know much abount the Northern Shaolin systems. The ones from the original Shaolin Temple in Honan.

[md1]

If you think NS is the best because it was 1st your wrong. the taoist style mu dong has been around longer than NSKF and besides it's not what you know it's whos first with the best that usually wins

[PingAnTu]

There is no best style!

[md1]

to say NSKF is best bcause it wsa 1st is wrong a style by the name MU DONG was around long before NS. besides it's not what you know but who's first with the best that usually wins. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[md1]

to say NSKF is best bcause it wsa 1st is wrong a style by the name MU DONG was around long before NS. besides it's not what you know but who's first with the best that usually wins. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[md1]

to say NSKF is best bcause it wsa 1st is wrong a style by the name MU DONG was around long before NS. besides it's not what you know but who's first with the best that usually wins. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif [/LIST]

[reemul]

"Northern Shaolin Kungfu", as a singular system, is nothing more than a weak *******ized conglomoration of the Northern animal systems, lacking the Depth of knowledge of its counter parts. Just another rip of the shaolin name.

[HuangKaiVun]

Anybody who says that Northern Shaolin is a *******ized system that lacks the depth of its counterparts clearly has never used Northern Shaolin in a combat situation or otherwise.

As far as the short-range stuff goes, it's all there it in Northern Shaolin. It's just not apparent in the sets to the untrained eye. All of the big motions can be shrunken down, and I need the long range stuff to take on the bigger opponents. This becomes especially important when fighting more than one big guy at once.

WC is also a very circular and complete art - it's just not apparent either. The top level WC guys I spar with don't really concern themselves with "circular" or "linear" - they just get to you efficiently without regard for philosophy.

According to insiders, Shaolin monks do agree that the "Northern Shaolin" as we know it today does have some roots from the Shaolin temple.

[doug maverick]

you can't live in new york cause if you did you would know that all those high kicks are useless right some of the chinese kung fu styles caim from shaolin but the were changed remmeber to meet the area if you got space and your not facing more then one attacker northern shaolin is the sh*t but one you got know space to kick and you have know claose range power your assed out brother.<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>ten tigers seak the moutain path [/quote]

[HuangKaiVun]

Northern Shaolin kicks can be shrunken down to small motions.

Having the capability to kick high is just as important as having the capability to kick low.

In closed arenas, the kicks of Northern Shaolin are very effective - though they need not come up over the waist.

[NorthernShaolin]

Reemul: You are confused between the shaolin system and the shaolin style. You need to reconize the differeces bewteen the two.

As to Northern Shaolin style, how effecient is it? Just go back in history. In the 1928 First National Championship of China was held in Nanking, where all styles were invited to fight in a no holds all out fight. The officials had to stop at the last 13 fighters because they feared the last matches would end up in deaths which would be counter productive of what the government was attempting to do, to promoted Chinese Martial arts in the country. The last 13 fighters were all Northern Shaolin masters andwere named China's top fighters. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[JerryLove]

And I know a MuayThai site talking about the NHB invitational in Thiland where MT dominated. And then there are the UFCs where BJJ dominates....

[kenpoman]

...and then there's my house where I dream and I wooop everybody's ass.

[reemul]

Northern Shaolin animal systems comprised the original set of Shaolin systems, which is what this is in referrence to.

In the monastary you did not pick and choose different systems, the masters chose you, and once accepted your life was spent mastering that particular system(yeah of course you may learn some things from other systems, but your primary study and quest for mastery was that of which was your masters.

Having said that, "Northern Shaolin kung fu" as a system is *******ized in that, because mastery was defined as "life devotion" by the monastary, meaning it will take the rest of your life to master that one system, to say you mastered them all and formed one system called "Northern Shaolin Kungfu" goes against the monastary's definition of mastery, hence it is a *******ized
version developed by non-masters on the outside, looking in.

Whether it is effective in fighting or not, is not in question.

As for the fight in 1928, I call B.S. During the time frame in question the Shaolin animal masters (in particular) were quietly leaving the country. At this time persecution of Shaolin families had begun and it would have been suicide to show up at such an event. Also performing, which fighting for public specticle clearly is, goes against Buddhist precepts.

Just because someone holds a tournament inviting
the best of all styles or systems doesn't mean they will all show up.

[HuangKaiVun]

At the Honan Shaolin Temple, many renegade fighters came to the temple seeking refuge. These renegades imparted their knowledge to Shaolin kung fu.

Chinese emperors also sent their top men to Shaolin to train. This continues to the present day, where Red China sends its top military guys to Shaoliin to learn the art. Doubtless, the monks and soldiers learned things from each other (as they do today).

Shaolin masters often took travels to learn about the world. Today, the Shaolin monks practice Western Boxing, San Da, and other forms of "modern" fighting such that they can expand their styles.

The REAL picture of Shaolin kung fu ("Northern Shaolin" as well as the Temple styles) is of an art that is constantly expanding and willing to improve itself at any point.

So if Northern Shaolin is a "*******ization", so is the original Shaolin kung fu - the ultimate "*******" style. Not coincidentally, they resemble each other strongly (according to the Shaolin monks themselves).

To me, there's nothing wrong with that.

[reemul]

As I said, the masters left during the 1930's
The temple today is nothing more than a monument
to what it once was. The most you can expect to learn is contemporary Wushu, and the Chinese gov. is well aware of this. If it wasn't for the gov. the Shaolin masters would still be there.

[baochui]

Hello All,

To me, it comes down to the individual and his or her willingness to accept that one must be open minded to the other methods of fighting. IF one's system is Authentic (and not a modern abomination formed from egomania...), it should have, in principle, the tools to deal with ANY other system; i.e., we do not kick high, BUT we train with the understanding that some do and do it very well... One does not have to be a "grappler" (or whatever) to beat the same, but it sure helps to be aware that all systems pose a potential threat and to have a basic understanding of how the opponent functions. There is either in essence of, or the ability to deal with, all manner of attack in ANY authentic system: it may not be easily seen, but the potential is there. In any basic "impacting-based" art, is the means to deal with a "grappling-based" art, and visa-versa...it just takes time, patience, and an open mind to eventually figure this out.

Are the Northern systems effective, of course. But, in potential, not any more or any less than any other authentic system...just my view.

Respectfully, Baochui

[kfstudent]

north shaolin is not the best style. it is very demanding and takes a long time to learn and even longer to get even halfway effective with it unless you are a natural and highly adept at flowing fighting skills to begin with.
Ku Yu Cheong was agreat master and was a contemporary and teacher of other great masters.
Ku Yu Cheong was so good that aspects of his north shaolin were absorbed into other arts that are also quite formiddable. The Northen victory style of choy li fut being one of them as the founder of that system tam sam was a contemporary and student of Ku Yu Cheong.
Wing Chun is and has always been a distillation of the shaolin boxing methods and in itself it has become a highly effective and formiddable art.
Hung Gar also has it's foundations with the kung fu of the henan temple, this is quite clear and it is recognized by the simplicity that the kung fu of the "alleged" fukien temple was transplanted from the henan temple.
animal styles were derived to mirror the fighting and defensive tactics and spirit of animals into teh human form.
The shaolin would as reemul has stated take a student and give them one style that suited them. that means a student would enter the temple and be observed by many of the masters there and one would decide to take the student often dependent on teh students body form and other factors such as character traits attitude and so on.
large framed individuals were favoured for tiger, light and thin framed for crane, medium could fit either and other animals were given were required. there were all kinds of mitigating factors involved in who was taught what and why were they taught it. The monk Gim see was a Tiger Master and that was the art he gave Hung Hei Gwun who in turn handed that down after adding crane from his wife all the way down to wong fei hung who in turn handed the art to Lam Tsai Wing who really was the one who brought the art of Hung Gar as we know it know to the public and out of the family lineages.
north shaolin is a beautiful art, as beautiful and powerful as any and moreso than some.
it is unwise to deride a style that is notthe same as yours and it is just as unwise to hold your style up as the best. It is better to be fully aware as much as is possible of the skills of other arts and to see them and learn from them when you get the opportunity to do so.

[HuangKaiVun]

Well said, kfstudent.

I don't know a single person in real life other than myself who has embraced NS.

I've had occasional students, but none of them have had the talent and perserverance to stick with this demanding art.

[kenpoman]

Isn't the topic of this thread akin to asking what the best language is?
Perhaps what the best color is?
Maybe even a question about the best number?

[Bastet]

for a while i thought that 3 was the best, but after studying 7, i have come to the conclusion that it is definitely the best. Some might say that 3 came before 7 so it must be better, others will say that 7 is only a *******ised blend of 3 & 4. But i KNOW that 7 is the best (even though i havent had any experience with the other numbers) - although my friend can do some amazing things with 9.

blessed be,
a.

[Bastet]

for a while i thought that 3 was the best, but after studying 7, i have come to the conclusion that it is definitely the best. Some might say that 3 came before 7 so it must be better, others will say that 7 is only a *******ised blend of 3 & 4. But i KNOW that 7 is the best (even though i havent had any experience with the other numbers) - although my friend can do some amazing things with 9.

http://flowerkitty.tripod.com/smile/devil.gif

blessed be,
a.

[Vankuen]

One thing that really gets me sometimes is the narrow mindedness of many martial artists and gung fu men in particular. Being a lover of chinese martial arts, I find myself usually biased towards its techniques. However the main concern here is about oneself. The main factor in determining the overall usefullness of ones gung fu is oneself. Not the style. Every single style of gung fu once had a purpose, and at one point in time had proven itself to be effective, or else it wouldnt have survived this long to make it to this modern age. Bottom line, your skills get better because you make them better. It is only you that can do this, nothing or no one else can.

[CannonFist]

There is definitely some strong points in Northern Shaolin. One that I think is significant is the fact that Northern Shaolin is not a specialized art, they have long range, short range, grappling, all kinds of animal styles etc. However it is also this generalization that many Northern practitioners are not great fighters in a short time as compared to other more specialaized arts. However in the long term Norther Shaolin is an advantage because the practitioner has gone through all the methods and can specialized in the method that suits him/her. A more specialized art like WIng Chun may produce a great fighter in a short time with simple short range technqiues of chain punching, deflecting, and charging in but this is limiting when the wing chun guy wants to add versatility and include kicks. In summary, I think that Northern Shaolin provides a good overall foundation.

[Chris McKinley]

What about when your hands are up?

[Kairo]

WHY DO PEOPLE NEVER CONSIDER THE HANDS IN A MEDIUM HEIGHT POSITION?
YOU INCONSIDERATE MONSTERS!

[joedoe]

Serious reply:
It is not the style, but the practitioner that makes a good fighter. After all, there are only so many ways you can kick/punch/lock/throw etc.

Frivolous reply:
I much prefer the number 9. It has a much nicer look and feel to it, and if you are talking dollars I prefer 9 of them to, let's say 3.

And I definitely think the middle hands position is superior because it is symbolic of the yin/yang - balance. If your hands are too high, there is a yang imbalance (hence why you get robbed in this position). Too low and there is a yin imbalance (hence you get called a wanker). In the middle is perfect.

[prana]

That is because hands in the middle depicts the infamous KF od the great Goktipus. Legend has it that his style has the minute subtlety derived from practising the Northern 5 star praying aunties. He then went on to train his middle finger to accomodate the balance with the index finger.

He now practices his martial arts whereby close combats involves the use of his two fingers amongts other things with a quick jerking motion in the middle section to reveal a white weapon so destructive, it will make you sick. This, all without hitting you.

This is the ultimate kung fu.

However I am sad to say, the art of Goktipus is fast diminishing. See thread here (http://forum.kungfuonline.com/1/OpenTopic?q=Y&a=tpc&s=126197291&f=196199028&m=245197139&p=8)

Legend also states that Goktipus has the capability to expanding his combat numbers, just like Shiva with multiple arms. In fact, once the matter was so serious, Goktipus released a guard so big, he threatened to release the big guns, the northern style suited warriors.

I think it was witnessed somewhere that he released an almighty "Owwwowow this hurts" before abolishing an entire army of 10.

Absolutely amazing. long live the Goktipus Monster Northern Finger Puller.

Breathe till there is no breath...

[prana]

7 another more votes

Breathe till there is no breath...

[Fish of Fury]

yeah man, 7 rocks. anyone who says different doesn't know nothin'

[Shaolin Temple]

Look for goktimus/ego maximus/bestallstyle/calmguru/5 star praying mantis/mercilessfighter...he is the best person to talk to. he is an expert in all styles especially northern.

Hey everybody, the @rsehole have started new threads in other discussions!!!

For those of you who are out there and are beginning to get annoyed with this arsehole...there's only so much a monk can tolerate...Amitabha...check Muhammed's reply in

http://forum.kungfuonline.com/1/OpenTopic?q=Y&a=tpc&s=126197291&f=196199028&m=71919378 21

http://forum.kungfuonline.com/1/OpenTopic?q=Y&a=tpc&s=126197291&f=196199028&m=8891902621&p=5

http://forum.kungfuonline.com/1/OpenTopic?q=Y&a=tpc&s=126197291&f=196199028&m=8891902621&p=6

and Goose's reply in:
http://forum.kungfuonline.com/1/OpenTopic?q=Y&a=tpc&s=126197291&f=196199028&m=8891 902621&p=3

Which Shaolin is authentic. North or South.
As Sifu would say...there is no permanence and there should not be any discrimination.
The point is therefore, who cares.
The more Shaolin there are, the better. Be civilized and chivalrous in your behaviour. As martial artists, we are supposed to not forget that we learn this art to help others and ourselves in times of need...not be a thug!!!
Amitabha.