Fake Kung Fu?

[shenyingwu]

http://www.shengchikungfu.com/history.shtml

Studied this for a while(not at this school though), they have seven animals, bear tiger, mongoose, mantis, cobra, crane, dragon. They claim their art very pure and some are bold to say the most effective kung fu and art in general. This art feels like kenpo with an emphasis more on the japanese side then chinese. What do you guys think, are they legit chinese or did some white dude just take different arts, mixed it together, and named it something.

[old jong]

He looks honest to me!... (http://www.shengchikungfu.com/images/dashifu.jpg) :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Royal Dragon]

This smells very suspiciously like a piece I wrote for my school along time ago (When I was teaching), only VERY heavily modified.

It's like he took my piece expanded on it, re wrote it with his own stuff, and published it.

This for example is almost word for word from my original "What is Shaolin" page on my site.

Many think of the Shaolin temple as the beginning, and for most it was. What the Shaolin Temple was, was a melting pot for various strands of the original arts. It was a place of refuge, especially for those who had fought as soldiers. These "unshaved monks" as they were called, were allowed to live and train in the temple to avoid persecution. They blended their military arts with the bits and pieces of Law Hong Gung that were practiced in the temple.

The original is as follows, including my typo's:


Many think of the Shaolin temple as the beginning, and for most it was. What the Shaolin Temple was, was a melting pot for various styles of martialarts. It was a place of refuge and sanctuary, especially for ex military or those who had been bandits and then reformed. They were allowed to live and train in the temple to avoid persecution. They blended their military arts with the Louhan style that was practiced in the temple at the time.

[Royal Dragon]

Here's a link to thier forum

http://shoushu.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=65

[truewrestler]

lol @ geese

http://www.shengchikungfu.com/images/building.jpg

[Vash]

suxors!

[Indestructible]

Originally posted by shenyingwu
This art feels like kenpo with an emphasis more on the japanese side then chinese.

Ha, since when is soft, flowing focus and chi Japanese? There is already a thread debating Shou Shu here, just search for it. Its about (edit) 32+ pages long by now I think.

[anton]

Originally posted by Royal Dragon
This smells very suspiciously like a piece I wrote for my school along time ago (When I was teaching), only VERY heavily modified.

It's like he took my piece expanded on it, re wrote it with his own stuff, and published it.

This for example is almost word for word from my original "What is Shaolin" page on my site... Mate if they submitted that as a university essay, they'd get suspended for plagiarism! If I was you I would contact them about ripping off your piece.


Originally posted by old jong
He looks honest to me!... (http://www.shengchikungfu.com/images/dashifu.jpg) :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Of course he's legit, he's wearing a star trek uniform with the Shou Shu family crest on it. Don't you know, shou shu is not only linked with Wudan, Shaolin, Da Mo and triads, but also with a secret ancient order of western knights, descended from King Arthur himself who were the only ones to compile all the secret fighting arts of Europe into one deadly style. It also has links to the Russian mob and Italian mafia, the Masons, the Spanish Inquisition, and Alice (who invented a deadly style based on the creatures she encountered on her adventures in wonderland). All of these elements have well established historical links going back a bzillion years... all one has to know is where to look! However I can't point you in the right direction for sources as I have my own reasons, and if you are smart enough you will realise them yourselves.

[Royal Dragon]

You know, they changed it enough to where I don't think I could do anything.

Besides, I thought my original peice was junk anyway, that's why you don't see it on my site today.

[David Jamieson]

would someone just please go and cross hands with someone from teh orginaization already. that's the only way to tell i their fu is good or not.

Frankly, whining here about it makes the whiners look like little biotches with no cajones.

go box em. if they're good shut up, if they blow, post it here with your photographic proof.

why do people have to be so dang superficial anyway? how shallow can people get? just check these threads. Deep down, many of them are shallow.

cheers hny

[MasterKiller]

why do people have to be so dang superficial anyway? how shallow can people get? just check these threads. Deep down, many of them are shallow. Not with a bang, but a whimper....

[Royal Dragon]

But, but, but, but .......................................... :D

[shenyingwu]

Kinda depends on the fighter doesn't it? Most arts i've taken, when training for competition reverts to kickboxing so it kinda depends on the fighter(this includes trad. N. S. Kung Fu, Isshn Ryu, or just plain MT) Taekwondo on the otherhand remeaned its bouncy self. I did not question whether the art was effective but rather whether it really was kung fu. I personally think not, it doens't look like kung fu, doesn't feel like kung fu, and my friends(who speak chinese) have told me Shou shu refers to a massage parlor. But i with my limited knowledge of kung fu might have been easily mistaken. I put it on here to see if anyone could validate their history, or if anyone has heard of some art similar to this perhaps a derivative of some sort.

[Royal Dragon]

From reading thier forum, they look like Kempo, dressed up, and maybe some Akido. I'd have to see it to be sure though.

[Indestructible]

Originally posted by shenyingwu
my friends(who speak chinese) have told me Shou shu refers to a massage parlor.

Shou Shu can mean a lot of things depending if you're speaking Cantonese or Mandarin and the context you are using. The meaning that applies to us is Mandarin and loosely translated means "fighting way of the beasts". There is a character for Shou that means beast.

I've also heard "motorcycle man" and "hand arts". The most modern definition in one context is "surgery".

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by shenyingwu
Most arts i've taken, when training for competition reverts to kickboxing so it kinda depends on the fighter(this includes trad. N. S. Kung Fu, Isshn Ryu, or just plain MT)

No they don't. You can't "revert" to something you can't do. you may think it bears resemlances to kickboxing, but it isn't kickboxing in any way. If I get into the ring and start throwing tornado and butterfly kicks, am I reverting to kung fu?

[MasterKiller]

No they don't. You can't "revert" to something you can't do. you may think it bears resemlances to kickboxing, but it isn't kickboxing in any way. If I get into the ring and start throwing tornado and butterfly kicks, am I reverting to kung fu? Even though I've never had a piano lesson, I can still play "Chopsticks." Just because I've never had a lesson doesn't mean I'm not playing the piano, or even not playing "Chopsticks." My quality of play is a different matter alltogether.

Besides, it's not as if "kickboxing" is some peculiar style or anything. If anything, it's the barest form of any striking art. So, if you've ever trained in striking with kicks, you've got some kickboxing skills.

Kung Fu involves kicking, puncking, locking, and throwing. Kickboxing doesn't allow locking and throwing.

[SevenStar]

BS. The mechanics of the thai roundhouse are quite intricate. In addition, there's defensive strategy, differing footwork, etc. MT has throws. so, looking it it your way, I can punch, kick, throw and say I'm doing bare bones longfist.

and thai boxing does allows sweeps and throws. just not "big" throws, like over the hip throws. whether or not they are scored will depend on the organization.

[MasterKiller]

I don't consider Thai Boxing and kick boxing the same thing, but I could be wrong. Are MT rules that same as your standard Kickboxing match rules?

so, looking it it your way, I can punch, kick, throw and say I'm doing bare bones longfist.As long as you were relaxed while doing it, and didn't hop around, I suppose you could. When it comes down to it, there are only so many different ways you can fight.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
I don't consider Thai Boxing and kick boxing the same thing, but I could be wrong. Are MT rules that same as your standard Kickboxing match rules?

I agree. The same thing applies though. kung fu that's not using it's principles doesn't equal kickboxing. No to the rules question.

When it comes down to it, there are only so many different ways you can fight.

True. Good fighting transcends style.

[cerebus]

Shou Shu IS.......KEM/NPO!!!!!
Just don't go around tellin' everyone or or "Da Shifu" might beat "Da Doo Doo" outta ya'! :D :D :D

[Indestructible]

Originally posted by cerebus
Shou Shu IS.......KEM/NPO!!!!!
Just don't go around tellin' everyone or or "Da Shifu" might beat "Da Doo Doo" outta ya'! :D :D :D

Actually.... this is Kenpo
Kenpo Videos (http://www.akki.com/_videos/index.htm)

[Vash]

:rolleyes:

[shenyingwu]

Is that Kenpo part of the origianl kajukenbo like with gaylord and ed parker? I bet those vids are hype to get people to join

[cerebus]

Heh, heh. Looks more like Shou Shu to me! :D :D

[MonkeySlap Too]

I don't know about you guys, but I want to get me some of that 'swirling destruction.'

[cerebus]

Mmmm, yeah, me too! A nice, hot cuppa 'Swirling Destruction' would be nice right now. :D :D :D

[SifuAbel]

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Not this crap again!!!

Droan...........................ugh.

[cerebus]

Heh, heh! Yeah, Shou Shu, it's like a rash that JUST WON'T GO AWAY! :D :D :D

[SifuAbel]

Ok let me rephrase that.

"Oh no, not the crabs again!"

[Indestructible]

Originally posted by cerebus
Heh, heh! Yeah, Shou Shu, it's like a rash that JUST WON'T GO AWAY! :D :D :D

Funny, I was thinking that about you!:D

[cerebus]

Heh, heh. Well, I'm flattered you were thinkin' of me! That's sweet of ya'. :D :D

[Shou Shu Blue]

Cerebus we are always thinking about you. it just brightens our day when we see your posts. Single phrases, one word no matter we smile with anticipation for the next one liner.

i have to say that university education is paying off by the way. your use of the Kem/npo is growing on me. LOL

updated myself on the original 32 page thread for ya.

Salute,

SS Blue

[Royal Dragon]

I like Kenmpo myself.

[Shou Shu Blue]

The following is posted on the Shou Shu melange thread too.

I never thought i would return.

Salute,

let me see if i can not help at all. It has already been posted from previous parts of this thread.

One Shou Shu is the name our Da' Shifu gave the art in manderin is means Way of the Beast. to add fighting would add another charactor. It is not the name of what he was taught in China. He was taught 7 animals which are Xiong, Hu, You, BaHe, Tang, Fu, Long. There were only 5 individuals including Da' Shifu Moore Sr that graduated from the school that learned all 7 animals. He then named the style Shou Shu. Hence Moores Shou Shu. It has become a family art, the entire art is not taught to the public.

look for the Animal Chuan in buddhist history. might be the beast chuan i was told it is in their artwork.

If you look around at certain arts named after animals you will see the names i mentioned above.

if a student did not learn all 7 animals he only called it what he was taught. Just as any art from china that was a family art unless the family accepted you as one of their own you werent taught their art.

Some animals taught to Da' Shifu are not taught by other styles because of that styles master probably didnt see the practicality of it being taught or they didnt learn it. If a style didnt have the whole animal then it would have to draw from a different style to fill in the gaps.

Shou Shu is effective under pressure.

we are taught techs as a learning base, as our lessons progress we are encouraged to do reaction drills and mix our strikes while sparring. in turn its not the techniques we pay attention to in a fighting situation but the strikes we are taught from those techniques.


Salute,

SS Blue

[GeneChing]

Sensei Says by Patrick Blennerhassett
It’s time to admit most traditional martial arts are fake and don’t actually teach you how to fight (https://www.scmp.com/sport/martial-arts/kung-fu/article/3034175/its-time-admit-most-traditional-martial-arts-are-fake?utm_content=article&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR19MxqWZPFG9OhAdtfsGGITaL7YYMKz4pZ7nBA2i wrC1lRZaf9_13jbf1g#Echobox=1571882932)
Practising certain martial arts does not actually prepare you for an actual fight, and all the viral videos are finally exposing the so-called ‘kung fu fakery’
The real problem is regular people are being peddled traditional martial arts snake oil and are getting hurt or injured when they find themselves in a fight
Patrick Blennerhassett
Published: 10:00am, 24 Oct, 2019

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/d8/images/methode/2019/10/24/226aaa4c-f555-11e9-87ad-fce8e65242a6_image_hires_103120.JPG?itok=Iynr1x6L&v=1571884286
A tourist poses for a photo with the statue of Bruce Lee at the Avenue of Stars in Tsim Sha Tsui on the first day after its reopening. Photo: Sam Tsang

I still remember my first ice hockey fight. All the movies I’d watched as a kid, where highly choreographed fight scenes looked like expertly planned dance routines, had horribly lied to me. By the time I realised I was in a fight, at the tender age of 16, it was already half over and I’d taken three or four solid shots to the face and my jersey had been pulled well over my head, rendering me blind.
The experience was jarring: unfiltered chaos, blurred vision in one eye from an errant thumb poke, a ringing eardrum from getting punched in the side of the head, the taste of my own blood and swallowing a tooth. There was just disorganised, violent confusion with a skyrocketing heart rate and buckets of adrenaline.
I held my breath as my body went into shock and when it was over I threw up in the penalty box from exhaustion, even though the whole thing lasted less than 45 seconds.
After about a dozen or so, I started to get the hang of it and learned a few things: an actual fight is about survival. Fights do not happen in closed environments and any time to think is about the same amount of time it will take for your opponent to break your nose.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UvRavszvPY

In one fight, I remember getting my hand caught on my combatant’s shoulder pad. I took three off the chin before I realised his pads were tied to his body and I could use them to take him to the ground. In another tilt, the first punch I threw shattered one of my knuckles on my opponent’s visor and I had to learn how to be a southpaw in about two milliseconds. In one fight I ended up on the concrete ground at the rink as the trainer had forgotten to close the bench door because he was too busy watching the madness in front of him.
What I’m getting at here is that I’m pretty sure no dojo or tai chi master teaches this. There are martial arts you practice in a vacuum, and there is being in a fight. These are two very different things. By no means am I an expert pugilist, but I've been in enough altercations to know things like meditation and flow states will get your head kicked in during a real bout.
A fight is a visceral, primal experience and when you are fighting your physical doppelganger, you can get seriously hurt if you mess around even for a split second.
I’ve watched enough of the same videos I’m sure you all have where a wing chun or kung fu master gets quickly dismantled by a mixed martial artist. The morbid curiosity has got the best of me many times even though I know the storyline: MMA, which teaches people to fight, is a far cry from other traditional disciplines which are heavy on the artistry.
Still, I can’t help myself in watching these beat downs because I think it exposes an important fallacy floating around the martial arts world: that going to a couple of karate classes or learning moves from a wing chun master will help you in an actual fight, be it in a ring, octagon or out on the street.

continued next post

[GeneChing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW38khbabqc

While the recent documentary The Game Changers talks about former UFC fighter James Wilks’ experience in investigating plant-based diets, one part of the film stuck with me. Wilks remembers being young and getting into his first street fight after taking years of karate and getting rightly pummelled. It was a watershed moment for the fighter and it should ring true for many within the fighting world. You don’t know how ill-equipped you actually are against a much better fighter until you are brutally exposed in embarrassing fashion.
The important thing is not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Karate is great for things like self-confidence, discipline, meditation and various other life skills. Wing chun can teach you how to control your mind, regulate your breathing and helps with stretching and toning muscles. These disciplines work around relaxing and centering the psyche, which is incredibly beneficial for kids who have attention issues and adults who have anxiety and stress.
But the buck needs to stop there. Mixed martial artists, pioneered by Bruce Lee himself, have come on the scene as taking the best of various disciplines, from taekwondo to boxing, from jiu-jitsu to Muay Thai, and combining them with the purpose of teaching people how to fight, and more importantly, defend themselves properly from other fighters.

The kung fu fakery needs to stop. I don’t care about the fraudsters out there peddling themselves as invincible – watching them get exposed makes me giddy with glee. I’m worried about the kids and even adults being taught bogus lessons in various disciplines around the world. I had to learn how to fight the hard way, and luckily I escaped with nothing more than some nasty facial scars and a few horror stories. If I never raise my fists to fight again in my life, I will count it as a serious blessing.
Others aren’t as fortunate and have got seriously hurt or injured being peddled martial arts snake oil by false idols, and this is where this whole debate becomes anything but a laughing matter.

Thoughts everyone? :rolleyes:

[Jimbo]

Thoughts everyone? :rolleyes:

This guy hasn’t said anything in his article that hasn’t already been rehashed to death a million times already. I would agree that a lot of what’s in MA and how it’s taught in many MA schools isn’t going to help much in a real fight, but to make a sweeping statement that all MA and all MAists outside of MMA are ineffective frauds is stupid. It depends on how one is taught and how one is trained, and how it’s used in a given situation. It’s that simple. The article writer and whoever he got to back up his claims sounds bitter because he could not make it work for himself.

I dunno. I’m no great MA prodigy or anything, but I’ve been in a couple street fights as well as one life-or-death situation against 3 men, and my training never failed me but one time, and that one time it was actually me who failed myself. The incident I failed myself in was the one time I was slightly drunk and got sucker punched from the side. Even then, I wasn’t hurt. But it shouldn’t have happened in the first place. In that case, it was my own lack of awareness (and therefore my own dumb fault), and not my training. Also, way too many TMAists and MMAists and MMA hangers-on seem unable to distinguish between ‘street brawls’ and legitimate, unavoidable self-defense situations. Macho, chest-thumping street brawling is stupid. If you go around getting into street brawls because you think you should be able to kick anyone’s ‘arse’ because you’ve had some training, then you probably deserve to get “rightly pummeled” at some point. The guy should be glad he wasn’t shot, stabbed or stomped into a coma.

I freely admit that the fights I got into as a young man were stupid and avoidable. That sucker punch I got had been avoidable. The life and death struggle had not been; it happened very fast. In retrospect, had my radar been working in condition red, I would have seen the setup, but I didn’t (who is constantly in condition red, anyway?), and luckily things worked out in my favor, and it was due to my MA training and my will to survive. But my experiences differ from the author’s, so I guess that makes me a fraud. That’s OK; at least I’m still alive.

[GeneChing]

Wushu practitioner says martial arts show was parody of ‘fake masters’ (http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1195792.shtml)
Source: Global Times Published: 2020/7/27 18:43:40

https://www.globaltimes.cn/Portals/0/attachment/2020/2020-07-27/aa8942d9-a304-45a6-8d6f-11b57888f347.JPG
A self-proclaimed wushu (martial arts) master in Linyi, East China's Shandong Province, knocks down four opponents by waving a writing brush. Photo: Screenshot of a video posted by the Paper

A video clip showing a self-proclaimed wushu (martial arts) master knocking down four opponents by waving a writing brush has gone viral online. The "master" later explained that the match was actually a show satirizing so-called fake martial arts masters.

In the video of a wushu match in Linyi, East China's Shandong Province, posted by the Paper on Friday, He Weiyue, the wushu master, waved his writing brush and repeatedly KO'd four strong opponents, using exaggerated movements, voice and expressions.

The local wushu association published a statement on July 19 condemning the attention-seeking show, saying that they have launched an investigation into the illegally held hyped match.

He told media that the show was just a parody. "I was invited to perform a parody of those popular fake 'masters' and I performed as requested before the match."

He also added that as a wushu practitioner himself, he despises the so-called wushu masters. "I call myself master just to be ironic, just for fun, like a sketch show."

Netizens find it sarcastic that his attempt at irony failed. "It's so ironic that they don't punish the fake masters, but punish a comedian for being ironic," read one comment.

I'd like to see the vid.

Or maybe not...