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ketchup
01-03-2004, 06:51 AM
It is my understanding that chinese medicine proscribes against a raw goods diet, I believe it is said to weaken the spleen, among other things. What I don't understand is why a raw foods diet should be good for every other animal on the planet except humans. Why are we so different? Someone please explain. thanks-

vikinggoddess
01-03-2004, 10:35 AM
raw cold foods are harder to digest compared to cooked foods. however, in the summer and hot climates it's good to eat raw fruits, they help to cool the body. there are also some raw fruits that are specifically prescribed medicinally, for example pears for phlegm and heat in the lungs. many places you have to cook the foods or you will get parasites, the damage they enflict on the digestive system for sure weakens the spleen. i never have seen my chinese friends eat a fruit that wasn't peeled, never a vegetable that wasn't cooked.

why are raw foods okay for every other animal? maybe because they don't worry like humans do and they have no choice but to adapt to their environment. how many humans can survive if they have to camp out for a few months? how many can survive with out air conditioning? we also have too much worry, which is the emotion that depletes spleen qi. most people have bills to pay and get jobs, etc. animals don't, they just do fight or flight. americans also have a high pressure society and bad eating habits. here is my solution: turn off the propoganda machine (tv), stop thinking about money so much, and you will have more time to cook good foods, will have less to worry about and then you can eat more raw foods.

i heard a lecture once from a chinese herbalist who moved to america. she couldn't figure out why her formulas were no longer working as usual. as time passed she realized that american digestive systems were too weak to absorb the medicinal herbs. very smart lady, she started adding 3 digestive tonics/stimulants to all her formulas and they started working again. one of the herbs was Shan Zha, hawthorn, which is used to prevent food stagnation. i also now add this herb to every formula.

Repulsive Monkey
01-03-2004, 11:13 AM
Yes uncooked or raw and cold foods, can weaken the spleen if taken to excess, as the spleen works better with warm foods.
So as mentioned the spleen is weakened by the excess breaking down it has to go thru to digest it in the normal way. This doesn mean though that one should always avoid it as already mentioned some foods at the right time can be most beneficial.

blooming lotus
01-03-2004, 03:39 PM
Heat and food temperature, texture and consistency, water content, ph level ( general is fine, it doesn't take long to get very aware of this) etc is a very important part of metabolic function. Not just relating to produce. As artial artists and athletes, who else is consistently aware of this and eats and drinks accordingly? Sounds simple, but you'd be surprised the difference it makes and the amount of people who don't do this. ....

vikinggoddess
01-03-2004, 04:43 PM
You mean pay attention to foods as if they actually affect your body? It's a pity every corner grocery sells poison to the masses. What signs do you think martial artists and athletes pay attention too? Someone who knows Chinese medicine will look to bowel movements, frequency and texture, to get a good measure of one's overall digestive health/Spleeen Qi, which is also reflected in one's energy level and ability to build muscle tone and mass.

blooming lotus
01-03-2004, 06:19 PM
Nicely put....... your right, there is too much unnecceassary crap on the shelves passing itself off as food leading to a pattern of "convienient/ignorant" nutrional choices ...
and hey good link.

I've read on other threads recently that quite a few people on this board are outside of their healthy weight range and bmi. For the most part they're over, have low body fat and dense muscle. General imo, if you look good/feel good carry on . I believe they are still putting unneccessary stress on various systems as a direct consequence...what do you think about this? And what about the reverse side of that coin, ie underweightedness? I know this can be dangerous ground for interpretation but Check for instance alot of tagou temple monks or yogis meditating for years on end who have had little food and water avaiable at times but who's qi cultivation and possession (??) are way above average and always as high as embodiedly possible? Too much? Still making sense? When ( and only when) consistently and vigilantly cultivating on this level, the rest becomes placaebo no?

vikinggoddess
01-04-2004, 07:08 AM
Well you know that decreased caloric intake correlates with longevity in animal experiments. I think this phenomenon has been associated with telomere length. Telomere are the tips of the chromosomes and help maintain their integrity. The more cell divisions over time, the more telomere loss. For sure DNA is in the realm of the Chinese Kidney. A hereditary disease, or genetic anomology will yeild a Kidney essence deficiency.

For the highly muscled people, why do they have such muscle mass? Are they taking creatine, which taxes the anatomical kidneys. Are they taking protein powders daily? I would think this type of caloric intake will tax the anatomical kidney/ Chinese Kidney (which I think includes the DNA). Maybe the yogis already have some intuitive understanding about what is the right amount of food to eat. I don't pay too much attention much to biomedical standards as to what is average, etc. I don't like the US food triangle either. Remember the 4 food groups, what a joke? There is a mediteranian food pyramid one that looks better. I think a glass of red wine is even at the top of the pyramid too.

I don't know what you mean about placebo.

blooming lotus
01-04-2004, 03:06 PM
Some very good comments on kidney and dna correlation - I see your point and understand why it could be the chinese kidney. I think alot of the folks who are highly muscled are doing it naturally without supplements. I know alot of them have poor carbohydrate and fat choices but that aside, they also are huge on assisted resistance workouts like crazy weight regimes. I do see the kidney association but can you break it down in "gym jive" ?
If it comes back to kidney discipline this is unneccessary time and effort spent that while not more detrimental than at its base system, could be better used cultivating elsewhere right? Like more qigong for instance. Does that statement make sense to you?

As far as I'm concerned most alcohol is out and out poison but I am a big supporter of red wine. Mainly because of it's contribution to protein breakdown, heat stimulation and circulation and anti-oxident injection. Did somebody mention placaebo? I also use lemon and other acids pending what else dietary phase I'm in relating to carb intake and relating sugar etc as well as immediate fat viscosity and protein composition.

I am at the moment trying to find an alternative to the wine indefinately. I just don't enjoy alcohol in my body. From a chinese medicinal perspective, knowing the properties etc of wine, do you have suggestions? Like, drinking herbs maybe? It needs to be able to do all of the above. Soeties lemon juice just doesn''t cut it. I'm sure there is a better non-alcoholic choice, I just haven't had enough time to think on it long enough.

personal cheers for the time saver

( side note : You have no idea how good it is to ask a question, have some understand you, and be answered. Intelligence is tough like that):D

vikinggoddess
01-05-2004, 04:05 PM
Whatever joint injuries, like bursitis, that come from excessive weightlifting would fall under the category of damage to the tissues of the Kidney. Kidneys/ water element are associated w/ bones.

You could also say that the guys who are doing hard core weigh regimes are Liver Qi stagnant on a couple of levels, mentally for feeling such an overwhelming compulsion to spend so much time lifting at the gym, a contrived environment, and pysically because their flexibility usually declines with added bulk. Mental flexibility is a virtue of the wood element, whose Yin organ is the Liver. Sinews are the tissue of the wood element. You could say that pulled muscles and soft tissure injuries are local Liver Qi and potentially Liver blood stagnation (depending on the severity of the injury).

The one's who can't stop watching themselves in the mirror probably have more of a Metal imbalance, because vanity is considered a metal imbalance. You could say these people would do better too cultivate the virtues of non-attatchment and self-worth.

Hope this is what you were looking for. I'm not really sure what you mean by gym jive.

Wine is unique. You won't find a single drink to perfectly replace it.

aelward
01-08-2004, 11:50 AM
Just as different people have different constitutions and digestive strengths, it would be safe to assume that animals have stronger systems than we do. Humans have cooked foods for the last 30,000 years; animals eat raw foods regularly.

VikingGoddess:
Besides Shan Zha, what were the other two herbs that this herbalist was adding to her formulas?

vikinggoddess
01-08-2004, 01:09 PM
shen qu and i forget the other one. can't look it up because the library that had the video was looted/lost after my school went out of business. i think it was another herb in the anti-food stagnation category.