Question for the grapplers on Vale Tudo positions

[taijiquan_student]

I had a sparring session with a friend who does BJJ and Muay Thai and Boxing for stand-up. He's a relative beginner (though I suck too). We just did what I normally do in our taiji school's sanshou (sparring) class, which he says is the same thing as Brazilian Vale Tudo. Basically anything goes, except the eyes and groin. Anyway, after our session, he said "sh!t, I need to talk to my teacher about striking on the ground". Whenever we would go to the ground he would look for an armbar or something or be in a more sport-oriented position, and I would nail him a few times in the face/head, we'd give each other a look of "it's over", and we'd stand back up.

He went to his BJJ class that night, and he talked about it with his instructor who showed him some Vale Tudo positions that are modifications of the more sport-oriented BJJ positions that are supposed to guard against strikes. My question to guys like MP and others is: what are these modified guards and mounts and such that they use in Vale Tudo that guard more effectively against strikes? Is there a website that shows the positions?

Thanks a bunch.:)

[WanderingMonk]

You are trying to get some head up, so you can keep on beating your friend, aren't you? I like your style :)

wm

[taijiquan_student]

Hahaha, I guess so. But I also want to try them out on the ground with my teacher and see how he deals with them. He always ends up pounding me on the ground.

I'll actually be training with my friend again tomorrow (I think we're making it a weekly thing), so when he busts out the Vale Tudo guards and whatnot we'll see what happens, assuming we go to the ground.

[Brad Souders]

Two big points you must remember with sport BJJ

1. No strikes

2. They have a gi

When you modify BJJ to fit a "vale tudo" type style you need to learn more control over your opponent's body. When he is in your guard keeping the head tight to you to not allow strikes, contolling the wrist when he makes spacem and learning to use your hips to aviod full blown shots.

Grappling with strikes is a whole different game. But in a way it sharpens your game when you take away the strikes. You learn when to hit submissions, make them work to get the job done, and remember in all positions strikes can be use to set submissions up.

I'm not sure of any websites that show specific changes. It's more of your own learning feel then anything. On the ground keep yourself tighter to him allow no space to strike when your open and use feel over sight.

Brad Souders

[taijiquan_student]

Cool, man. That makes sense. If anything interesting happens today in our sparring session I'll post the details.

[ShaolinTiger00]

what are these modified guards and mounts and such that they use in Vale Tudo that guard more effectively against strikes?

this isn't a very easy question to reply to in text. some things need to be seen to understand better.

it's all about control.

[Merryprankster]

From the bottom, there are two "basic" ideas and endless variations on that theme.

either keep the guy in close so that he has no room to strike with authority, OR, use the guard to keep him at a distance.

I use my forearms and shins to block punches, which then directly translates into wrist control. It feeds my open guard, which I use to attack.

If he does get space, start slipping with your upper body while moving your hips as hard as you can to get him off balance--forwards, backwards, etc.

[MasterKiller]

this isn't a very easy question to reply to in text. some things need to be seen to understand better.When are you grapplers going to learn that describing something in vague, style-specific lingo on a message board is worth at least three hours of live training?

[Ford Prefect]

Yeah, you can go 100 different directions with this one. Sport BJJ and Vale tudo are definately two different animals and most sport bjj will get tooled on pretty quickly once you incorporate strikes. I know I did. Like ST said, it can all be broken down to control. Everything, especially on the bottom is a lot tighter. You're either controlling wrists, pulling the opponent tight to you, or getting smacked... hard. Mario Sperry has some real good tapes. Just keep training though. It'll eventually come.

[Merryprankster]

IMO, the adaptation isn't that hard. Or, at least, it hasn't been for me....and I've spent a significant amount of time on the bottom in MMA sparring, unfortunately :D

[ShaolinTiger00]

Mario Sperry has some real good tapes.

I own them. (Vale Tudo I)

santa dropped off bjj tape sets/series this year.

Mario Sperry Vale Tudo I
Mario Sperry Master Series I
Mario Sperry Submission Grappling I
Pedro Carvalho advanced BJJ I

[Brad Souders]

You must be porking Mrs. Clause for that kind of gift.

[Merryprankster]

She's just as nice, but hotter.

Never mind.

[ShaolinTiger00]

ugh.. don't mention pork. I just came back from 2 weeks @ my mother in law's Cuban household in Miami.

Lechon, masitas de puerco, cuban sandwiches

no mas! *waves off the plate*

[truewrestler]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00


I own them. (Vale Tudo I)

santa dropped off bjj tape sets/series this year.

Mario Sperry Vale Tudo I
Mario Sperry Master Series I
Mario Sperry Submission Grappling I
Pedro Carvalho advanced BJJ I Good lord... isn't that nearly $1000? (if legit :p)

[ShaolinTiger00]

TW, it isn't nice to ask Santa how much he paid for the gifts..

;)

*flirts w/ MP's fiance when he's not around* :D

[LEGEND]

"what are these modified guards and mounts and such that they use in Vale Tudo that guard more effectively against strikes? Is there a website that shows the positions?"

From the guard I hold on to dear LIFE! If the opponent has a guard on me...I try to keep my face down in his chest...u might have seen instructional clips where BJJ guys pass the guard by getting a descent posture etc...but they alwayz expose the head for strikes. A good example would be watching Merry Prankster MMA clip...he kept his head and face down and used his arms to block punches...www.apoweyn.net...

[Water Dragon]

mmmmm, lechon y flan

[Knifefighter]

Here are just a few basic Vale Tudo Guard variations:

Close guard- Hips out to the one side. On same side bring knee and elbow together to trap opponent’s arm. Use same side hand against opponent’s head to defend head butts. Other side hand controls at opponent’s bicep.

Medium range guard- Hands on opponent’s triceps, knees in biceps.

Medium/longer range guard- same as medium range guard, but hips are lifted into the air.

Long range guard- Both hands hold one of opponent’s wrists; feet push opponent’s body back and/or kick to face.