Tan Tui/Tam Tui Origins

[mickey]

Greetings All,

Since we are still discussing Tan Tui on this forum, I thought it would be nice to discuss its origins.

12 line origin:

1- Monk from Longtan(Dragon Pond or Lake?) Temple developed it.Therefore called Tan (pond) legs.

2-Disgraced Shaolin student from the Tan family developed it to uphold family honor. (submitted by rik). Therefore accepted by shaolin and called Tan Family Kick. A face saving measure.

10 line version:

1- African referred to as Mo Kun Lun. Apparently adept with his kicking methods.

2- Chamir Cha Chuan origin to include origin of Tan Tui.

Wah Lum version:

Based on the movements of the ape.(from an Inside Kung Fu article)

[mickey]

Ape Theory:

I think the Wah Lum Ape origin may deserve some looking at.

Pi Kua practitioners seem to acknowledge a kinship with Tan Tui, some going as far as saying that it comes from them. Pi Kua as strongly related, if not coming from, Dong Pei, a style based on the actions of the ape.

I have also learned through this forum and others that when the Praying Mantis System was being developed, the Dong Pei style was predominant there and may have had influence. There have been some mantis practitioners of Praying Mantis that have studied Pi Kua to get a little closer to the well of their practice.

When I observe the style of White Crane, Hop Gar, and Lama. I see a more spectral version of Tan Tui. These styles also include the movements of the ape in their fighting.

Theory: These styles, and maybe Tan Tui, developed from a core mother style based on the Ape.

mickey

[mickey]

Restatement of theory:

Tan Tui developed from a mother style based on the movements of the ape; a style responsible that was used as a springboard for the development of Dong Pei, Pi Kua, Praying Mantis, White Crane, Hop Gar and Lama.

mickey

[Shaolinlueb]

i thought tan tui was developed by chinese moslems?

[mickey]

Hello shaolinlueb,

The 10 line origins represent the Muslim version. I have seen the term Blackamoor in reference to the Mo Kun Lun story: suggesting that this person was a Muslim (this Blackamoor reference was in a 1983 article by Alexander Co that was featured in Inside Kung fu).

mickey

[rik]

.................................................. ..
Disgraced Shaolin student from the Tan family developed it to uphold family honor. A face saving measure.
.................................................. .....
:-))))


Our history goes some thing like this.
A 10 section set was developed sometime during the 1700’s (Qing Dynasty). A lay student named Tan Xing trained at Shaolin briefly but left on bad terms or without permission. Eventually he returned to Shaolin and introduced this form to the monks who made certain changes to the form, added two sections and named the set after him. However it is not clear if Tan developed it or had mastered a set from his family style during his time away.

r.

[mickey]

Hello rik,

Thank you for sharing.

mickey

[rik]

According to this legend, when Tan returned to Shaolin the monks were impressed with his
improvement and adpted this set as a result.
The story concludes, with, "From then it was used as a fundamental form for all beginners at Shaolin".

My feeling this story suggusts that Tan was not the creator of Shaolin Tan tui but rather the person that brought it to Shaolin.

re: the What do/don't you consider...thread
In my mind 12 section Tan Tui is one of the bench marks.

[mickey]

Hello rik,

My thinking is that Tan Tui may be much older than people realize; much older than the various origins associated with it. I think it is ancestral to the long fist systems. And as longer more "complex" forms developed, lost its importance.

mickey

[MasterKiller]

Tan Tui comes from the Cha system, and Cha is one of the mother styles of Shaolin, so I believe that Tan Tui is older than some people are speculating.

[stimulant]

here's a good site with tan tui history

any comments people?


www.mubai.cc/articles/art26.htm

[mickey]

Hi Stimulant,

That is the history of Cha Chuan that was expanded to include the 10 line Tan Tui. The Kun Lun story was originally associated with it. The reason for the change I do not Know. The first time that I saw that Chamir version was in "Ten Routine Spring Leg" by the late Ma Zhenbang.

mickey

[rik]

Hi Simulant,

There are a number of inaccuracies in that account the principle one being that tan tui's
"origins lie with the Hui people."

r.

[NorthernShaolin]

stimulant,


Go here.
http://www.taklamakan.org/uighur-l/archive/6_5_1.html

This was a discussion on the question of Chamir's history and if he really existed during the time period that most people claim and if he really did exist, was he really a Hui Moslem.

The discussion covers topics like exactly where did the Hui people live during what specific time period and even discusses the different word usage as we use them today compaired to the past.

[norther practitioner]

Thanks again NS...

I don't know if this will be something solved really... So much of the transmitions of things like this gets skewed through time. We don't know if somewhere along the lines of 5 generations ago someone got the story wrong, or jokingly made something up, and as usual with many stories like this, it ends up being embelished.