realistic defense vs. drag down bear hug

[soundofwater]

I have scanned this forum and found a few posts on bear hugs but have a specific question for a particular and not uncommon situation:

Strong and quick bear hug from rear, arms are outside. Attacker quickly drops his weight, buries his head in your back to avoid elbow strikes, and blocks your leg at the ankle from behind and pulls you to the ground, hoping to land you on your side, but will accept pulling you down on top of him to beat you on the ground with excellent ground work.

This happens very quickly and at most you have one move to react to his one move of the initial grab. He does not try to pick you up, he merely wants to bring you to the ground quickly.

What counter move is possible in this situation which will prevent you from going down to the ground? Even a small person can "drag" down a larger person by pulling them backwards and downwards with their body weight along the weak axis of their stance. If you are not convinced of this, try it! :) To make your response reasonable, assume your opponent is bigger, stronger, and highly motivated (robbery, jealousy, whatever).

Please, no comments about being asleep or not letting someone get behind you etc. since there are many situations that might allow this type of attack (ATM line, you really are asleep ;), multiple opponents, etc.). Also, no multiple move techniques which require the attacker to stand by idly while you work him over.

You get whatever you could do in a fraction of a second before he can drag you down. Also, you, of course, don't know what he plans and shouldn't assume he won't pick you up etc. before he drags you down. Assume you have no knife in your hand, death ray gun, or superpowers.

One good workable move which could be executed by a smaller opponent which prevents you from going down...

Suggestions?

[mantisben]

Originally posted by soundofwater
...
Strong and quick bear hug from rear, arms are outside.
...
Who's arms are outside? Mine or the huggers?

[darksands]

Well, my hands are on the outside, I reach behind my back and grab his peaches and when I fall to my side, I steal the peach.

[18elders]

lets say he gets you to the ground, if your hands are on the outside they are free and you can use them, he can't use his if he keeps you in the hold. when i trained in ju jitsu the easiest thing was to take your free hand or hands and grab hold of one or 2 of their fingers and break them, he will let go.

[soundofwater]

Attacker's arms are firmly around your body with your arms free.
You get one move to prevent him from dragging/slamming you down; please, no discussion about what to do AFTER hitting the ground!

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Interesting question. Since I don't have a readily available answer I would have to say, for now, that you may have to accept that you are going to the ground and attempt to take control of the situation and drop in a way that puts you in a favorable position. I guess it's along the lines of 18elders reply although that's not the answer you want.

You can't expect to be able to resist every attack. Sometimes you have to go with it, minimizing the damage until you can regain control. That's what conditioning and moving away from a punch are for. Some punches are gonna get through.

This is what I call Situation Based Applications. What I do (apparently you do this also) is take a situation, then go through my forms looking for an answer to that particular problem. I've come up with apps for moves that weren't easily recognized. This way you begin to build a database of responses to particular situations. This came from my Kenpo background where all the techniques you learned were responses to specific attacks (front bear hug, rear bear hug, arms free, arms pinned, etc.). Since the Kenpo training was a long time ago I don't recall the routine for the rear, arms free bear hug. Actually I could look it up since I still have all my notes and books but I would rather give a Wah Lum response.

Actually I do recall that the Kenpo technique was a side step and hammerfist to the groin but like darksands response it's not appropriate in this situation since opponent is crouched and the groin is not within reach.

[soundofwater]

Yes, I tend to break things down situationally.

In reference to having to go down and THEN fight, it means you must be able to work from a position on the ground, where your back is probably to your opponent (and he may be mounting or choking etc. very quickly as you hit the ground), and maybe after having been slammed on your side.

This immediately eliminates all standing techniques involving punching, kicking, throwing, etc. and puts you in a vulnerable position on the ground with limited mobility, especially bad in a multiple opponent situation.

In any situation except one-on-one where you are much better than your opponent on the ground (since you are starting in a bad position and which would be presumptious to assume) this could mean a very undesirable outcome.

So it is imperative that you avoid going down to improve your chances of surviving the attack.

Anyone else have a move or idea?

[SevenStar]

As soon as he grabs you, sink your weight. take your left foot and place it behind him. you will of course have to do this before he traps one of your legs. bend forward, grabbing his legs behind the knees and stand up, twisting to the left with your waist as you do so.

[SevenStar]

here's another.

thrust your hips backward into his stomach, creating some space. Bend foward, grab one of his legs and stand up, yanking his leg out from under him. once he's on the gounrd, kick him, run, etc.

[SevenStar]

you can always try that one you see on tv all the time - if he's your height, use your head to butt the bridge of his nose. Then use elbows.

[mantis108]

Well, here's my take:

There are a few things you can try as followed.

1) Rolling knee bar would be the first thing that comes to mind. But it takes more practice and may or may be suitable for street defense. In a sport situation, it is most ideal.

2) There is also a way to do an arm bar from that position as well as taking the guy to the ground. You don't have to go to the ground but it's very effective. However, this requires that he didn't have a very tight hug and you have relatively more time (by distractions or whatever) to fish for his arm. Again it may not be idea for the street situation but it has lots of great followups; so it is IMHO the most fun to play with.

3) There is a "traditional" kung fu way found in the opening sequence of Gongliquan (Conditioning fist). It is to quickly elbow the crook of the elbow (the inside) of the opponent perferrably on the side that his leg blocking is. This would loosen up the grip especially when the right point on the crook of the elbow is hit. The followup in the form is to extend your arm over your head and backwards grabbing his neck and throw him over. This I believe is what the Shuai Chiao folks call "bowing". The problem with this is that you will need tons of practice to make it perfect. It is not the one minute self defense trick thing. But that's kung fu for you. ;) Depending on the situation you don't have to combine the elbow break with the throw.

4) You could also do stomp the blocking in step and back kick to the groin. But then your arms are outside so this is not really ideal for distance and control. so the move may not be very effective. I am not sure if side stepping and hammer fist to the groin would work in this case since he is sticking close and his arms are in the way unlike the other way which he has your arms within his hug.

Just a few thoughts to share.

Mantis108

[soundofwater]

"As soon as he grabs you, sink your weight. take your left foot and place it behind him. you will of course have to do this before he traps one of your legs. bend forward, grabbing his legs behind the knees and stand up, twisting to the left with your waist as you do so."


Could you clarify this move? When you move your left foot and place it behind him do you mean a slight movement to the inside then behind hooking with the front of your ankle to the back of his ankle (or from the outside hooking his ankle the same way) or do you mean bring your whole leg all the way around behind him?

If the latter (bringing entire leg around so that you are now "behind" him), this is very difficult (impossible) when faced with a strong hug and very little time.

If the former, it isn't clear to me how you would grab both of his legs and twist him backwards.

[soundofwater]

"here's another.

thrust your hips backward into his stomach, creating some space. Bend foward, grab one of his legs and stand up, yanking his leg out from under him. once he's on the gounrd, kick him, run, etc."


The old Fred Flintstone move, eh? I did manage to pull this off one time when I was 11 against my 9 year old brother on a concrete floor and got a good whuppin' from my dad since I gave my brother a concussion.

I have tried this as an adult with adults who are bigger and usually can't seem to lean forward to grab the leg because of the grip and the almost immediate pull backwards and downwards, since it is a "sacrifice" style takedown.

This is the "best" solution I have seen so far, though. Structurally, however, it doesn't seem reliable enough to pull off.

[soundofwater]

"Well, here's my take:

There are a few things you can try as followed.

1) Rolling knee bar would be the first thing that comes to mind. But it takes more practice and may or may be suitable for street defense. In a sport situation, it is most ideal.

2) There is also a way to do an arm bar from that position as well as taking the guy to the ground. You don't have to go to the ground but it's very effective. However, this requires that he didn't have a very tight hug and you have relatively more time (by distractions or whatever) to fish for his arm. Again it may not be idea for the street situation but it has lots of great followups; so it is IMHO the most fun to play with.

3) There is a "traditional" kung fu way found in the opening sequence of Gongliquan (Conditioning fist). It is to quickly elbow the crook of the elbow (the inside) of the opponent perferrably on the side that his leg blocking is. This would loosen up the grip especially when the right point on the crook of the elbow is hit. The followup in the form is to extend your arm over your head and backwards grabbing his neck and throw him over. This I believe is what the Shuai Chiao folks call "bowing". The problem with this is that you will need tons of practice to make it perfect. It is not the one minute self defense trick thing. But that's kung fu for you. Depending on the situation you don't have to combine the elbow break with the throw.

4) You could also do stomp the blocking in step and back kick to the groin. But then your arms are outside so this is not really ideal for distance and control. so the move may not be very effective. I am not sure if side stepping and hammer fist to the groin would work in this case since he is sticking close and his arms are in the way unlike the other way which he has your arms within his hug.

Just a few thoughts to share.

Mantis108"



1) This takes you down with him, so doesn't qualify

2) As you state, won't work against strong, motivated grip, and takes too long

3) This would be "upper body control leg blocking" in SC, but the caveat is that his head in buried in your back to avoid being elbowed and it is very difficult to get your arm over and around his neck quickly enough, especially before going down since he is sacrificing, and often cannot be done at all (try it! :) )

4) Any striking, of which you would only get one at best, still will probably not prevent the "sacrifice" throw to the ground, and violates the premise of not going down with him.

[BeiTangLang]

[i].

Anyone else have a move or idea? [/B]

Ummm,..Don't turn your back on a possible opponent?? :D

BTW,..just because I'm on the ground, don't assume that I cannot hit you or kick you.

Just some thoughts.

[SevenStar]

yeah, I can clarify. Actually, I just found a site that has all of the things I mentioned and also a variation of the "bowing" technique that was mentioned. It's a US hand to hand manual. Scroll down to the bear hgug defense section. He doesn't twist his waist the way that I do, but you will get the idea.

http://ejmas.com/jnc/jncart_FM21-150d_1000.htm

[MantisifuFW]

Greetings,

I have enjoyed this topic both because of the subject under consideration, (takedowns of any kind), and for the construction of the argument presented by it's originator.

Please understand, I was teaching throwing and Dae Tong, (Chinese Groundfighting), twenty years ago when karateka and thai boxers laughed at me so I am a fan and an advocate of exactly the kinds of tactics under consideration and fully endorse their effectiveness in the right setting. So, my comments are not intended to disparage anyone on any side of this discussion.

a) The argument has been framed that the grappler has gotten into prefect position for the takedown without the Tanglang practitioner being able to even take a step. At the same time the presenter says that the grappler is not held by the same rules, to quote:

"Also, no multiple move techniques which require the attacker to stand by idly while you work him over". Exactly what the presented arguement requires the Tanglang practitioner to do.

b) The argument continues that the Tanglang practitioner cannot talk about the difficulty of getting someone into this perfect takedown position, ala Shamrock punching Gracie (the ultimate grappler in his day), in the eye with a single clumsy and arguably weak punch that nonetheless reduced the grappling legend to clinging ineffectively to his opponent for the rest of the match and thanking god the Shamrock did not continue the pummeling with close range strikes.

c) Notwithstanding the proven effectiveness of such a single even poorly executed strike the arguement comes to the conclusion the originator had in mind in the beginning concerning the effectiveness of whatever strikes the Tanglang practitioner would make. :

"Any striking, of which you would only get one at best, still will probably not prevent the "sacrifice" throw to the ground... "

Now to my response to the technique:

It is an excellent takedown and one that I teach but is not the best version of it from a tactical point of view. It requires that I pin both arms, get my head braced into the back and block his ankle before I effect my throw. The perfect timing and effort required for this to work is far too difficult against a good fighter.

When I have used similar takedowns I did not even pin the arms. The takedown does not require this to be effective. I just get my arms around the waist of the opponent as I slip beneath his punch for example, hide my head for a split second in the small of the other's back and use my forward leg to block both of his heels as I fall to the ground and moved immediately into finishing techniques, (either choke, dislocation or striking).

This question being set forth here could be done with any throw or takedown and could be asked, "If an opponent is:

1. able to move into perfect position to effect a throwing technique (insert any kind) and...

2. has stabilized his position to the degree necessary for his technique to work well,...

3. has either effectively blocked the opponent's ability to maneuver, (or has already broken the opponent's balance)...

4. and done everything possible to minimize his vulnerablity to counters,...

can he be defeated?"

Provision 1:
Oh, also in the split second left to the opponent has to strike from a disadvantaged position, we assume already that it will not be effective.

Just in case though, as further help for the grappler...

Provision 2:
Also, you cannot fight from the ground even if you both fall down because the grappler slips on a bananna peal that he did not see at the ATM, falls before he is ready and hits his head on the concrete because he will also fall perfectly and not be injured even if he weighs 120lbs and the person that falls on top of him is a muscular 240lbs because he will finish the monster with "excellent groundwork".


The question is does a correctly executed takedown work?

The answer is, yes.


Most techniques of real martial systems can work if they are set up properly.

A great topic soundofwater. I look forward to more technical discussions!

Steve Cottrell

[18elders]

i agree with BTL, your not going to do anything on your feet if he tackles you the same time as he gets the hug on you. Why rule out going to the ground?? It is like being sucker punched, your not going to block it but you better react to the next move.

[soundofwater]

Originally posted by SevenStar
yeah, I can clarify. Actually, I just found a site that has all of the things I mentioned and also a variation of the "bowing" technique that was mentioned. It's a US hand to hand manual. Scroll down to the bear hgug defense section. He doesn't twist his waist the way that I do, but you will get the idea.

http://ejmas.com/jnc/jncart_FM21-150d_1000.htm

Thanks for the visual reference. Although some of these moves are a bit unrealistic or can be easily countered, the ankle grab warrants additional review.

[soundofwater]

Originally posted by MantisifuFW
Greetings,

I have enjoyed this topic both because of the subject under consideration, (takedowns of any kind), and for the construction of the argument presented by it's originator.

Please understand, I was teaching throwing and Dae Tong, (Chinese Groundfighting), twenty years ago when karateka and thai boxers laughed at me so I am a fan and an advocate of exactly the kinds of tactics under consideration and fully endorse their effectiveness in the right setting. So, my comments are not intended to disparage anyone on any side of this discussion.

a) The argument has been framed that the grappler has gotten into prefect position for the takedown without the Tanglang practitioner being able to even take a step. At the same time the presenter says that the grappler is not held by the same rules, to quote:

"Also, no multiple move techniques which require the attacker to stand by idly while you work him over". Exactly what the presented arguement requires the Tanglang practitioner to do.

b) The argument continues that the Tanglang practitioner cannot talk about the difficulty of getting someone into this perfect takedown position, ala Shamrock punching Gracie (the ultimate grappler in his day), in the eye with a single clumsy and arguably weak punch that nonetheless reduced the grappling legend to clinging ineffectively to his opponent for the rest of the match and thanking god the Shamrock did not continue the pummeling with close range strikes.

c) Notwithstanding the proven effectiveness of such a single even poorly executed strike the arguement comes to the conclusion the originator had in mind in the beginning concerning the effectiveness of whatever strikes the Tanglang practitioner would make. :

"Any striking, of which you would only get one at best, still will probably not prevent the "sacrifice" throw to the ground... "

Now to my response to the technique:

It is an excellent takedown and one that I teach but is not the best version of it from a tactical point of view. It requires that I pin both arms, get my head braced into the back and block his ankle before I effect my throw. The perfect timing and effort required for this to work is far too difficult against a good fighter.

When I have used similar takedowns I did not even pin the arms. The takedown does not require this to be effective. I just get my arms around the waist of the opponent as I slip beneath his punch for example, hide my head for a split second in the small of the other's back and use my forward leg to block both of his heels as I fall to the ground and moved immediately into finishing techniques, (either choke, dislocation or striking).

This question being set forth here could be done with any throw or takedown and could be asked, "If an opponent is:

1. able to move into perfect position to effect a throwing technique (insert any kind) and...

2. has stabilized his position to the degree necessary for his technique to work well,...

3. has either effectively blocked the opponent's ability to maneuver, (or has already broken the opponent's balance)...

4. and done everything possible to minimize his vulnerablity to counters,...

can he be defeated?"

Provision 1:
Oh, also in the split second left to the opponent has to strike from a disadvantaged position, we assume already that it will not be effective.

Just in case though, as further help for the grappler...

Provision 2:
Also, you cannot fight from the ground even if you both fall down because the grappler slips on a bananna peal that he did not see at the ATM, falls before he is ready and hits his head on the concrete because he will also fall perfectly and not be injured even if he weighs 120lbs and the person that falls on top of him is a muscular 240lbs because he will finish the monster with "excellent groundwork".


The question is does a correctly executed takedown work?

The answer is, yes.


Most techniques of real martial systems can work if they are set up properly.

A great topic soundofwater. I look forward to more technical discussions!

Steve Cottrell


Not to hit every point, and thanks for the last comment, but I will respond to a couple...

1) Although I was initially unclear, my intention was that the attacker did NOT have the defender's arms pinned and therefore your restatement of the attack is fundamentally what I intended.

2) I wanted to avoid a discussion on whether someone is a good fighter IF he allows someone else to get into this position in the first place, since all of fighting usually results in someone "losing" who didn't plan on it, for whatever reason. I wanted to strictly discuss a countermove, not the worthiness of the participants or the situation that might allow this attack.

3) I agree that a perfectly executed move should work perfectly, but to assume the attacker executes poorly or that one cannot be defeated is not an assumption than I would make for myself (not that you are doing this, either :)). BUT, most (all?) moves have a counter move some point during their execution. And, of course, at some time it is too late for any countermove.

And by the same reasoning, a perfect countermove works every time! :) So, since it is impossible to judge the fitness and skill level of the participants, and for training's sake, I always assume a faster, stronger, more skilled attacker in perfect position and try to determine, technically, what single move I might make to continue the fight with me still in it.

4) I am not against going to the ground, it is just one more step in the fight process which, as the defender, I may not want someone to force me into for various situational reasons.

Thanks for a great response on this topic! :)

[mickey]

Hello soundofwater,


1- sink to give yourself time

2- grab the fingers(1 or 2) of his left hand with your righthand and hyperextend them.

3- twist them counterclockwise while circling your left arm undeer his left. Your body should naturally turn with this.

4- continue to circle the arm under until the opponents arm is folded upward into an inverted V -- careful if your partner is tight this can dislocate. Your should be standing behind your opponent now.

5- Grab his throat with your left hand (still under his arm)and rip.

Time allowed to execute once fingers are hyperextended and twisting-- less than 1 second.

I hope this helps,

mickey

[soundofwater]

Originally posted by mickey
Hello soundofwater,


1- sink to give yourself time

2- grab the fingers(1 or 2) of his left hand with your righthand and hyperextend them.

3- twist them counterclockwise while circling your left arm undeer his left. Your body should naturally turn with this.

4- continue to circle the arm under until the opponents arm is folded upward into an inverted V -- careful if your partner is tight this can dislocate. Your should be standing behind your opponent now.

5- Grab his throat with your left hand (still under his arm)and rip.

Time allowed to execute once fingers are hyperextended and twisting-- less than 1 second.





I hope this helps,

mickey


My experience with this is that if you try to sink your weight you 1) may not sink very far if the person is strong and wants to pick you up or hold you there and 2) it only facilitates his pulling you backwards and down since that is the direction you are already going! :)

[mickey]

Hi soundofwater,

There is no "ideal" response that will work every time. I thought you were looking for options. The best thing is to get a few partners of different builds and explore the scenario. You may find common elements that may form a template towards developing good technical responses.

mickey

[soundofwater]

Originally posted by mickey
Hi soundofwater,

There is no "ideal" response that will work every time. I thought you were looking for options. The best thing is to get a few partners of different builds and explore the scenario. You may find common elements that may form a template towards developing good technical responses.

mickey

Yes, I was looking for "options" but I have found that many times there is time to train only for the high percentage move, and that it needs to be automated knowledge, i.e. something that can be done to give me more time to execute a subsequent counter or attack.

Perhaps similar to what to do immediately if someone gets you into a choke, for instance. Once you have established a quick position that prevents an immediate loss of the fight, you may have time to execute additional moves to subsequently win it.

So not so much an ideal or "always works" technique, but more of a first response triage move to save the patient! :)

[mickey]

soundofwater,

Then you would have to get some partners and work on it. That really is the only way. Also, pay attention to your mental state. That alone has saved lives.

Take care,

mickey

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by soundofwater


Perhaps similar to what to do immediately if someone gets you into a choke, for instance. Once you have established a quick position that prevents an immediate loss of the fight, you may have time to execute additional moves to subsequently win it.



That's a different situation. You can grab his arm and pull down to help stop the choke. It's alot harder to stop someone fron taking your balance if they control your center. That said, the things listed here work. Drill them. being able to do them instantaneously is what will be your saving grace.

[Mantis9]

Okay, we have a theoretical fight were I (gasp!) fail in all preventative responses up until the point my opponent is facing my back, arms well wrapped around my trunk, has his face tucked into my back to prevent elbows, headbutts, and any like striking efforts. Also, he's a good technician; bigger and stronger than me.

First of all: ouch! I am a sad, sad man.

Well, this problem (if I've articulated it correctly) presented is looking for a technical solution that hangs its hopes on the idea that I can make a simple initial move without relying on my strength, speed (in the athletic sense), or leverage. However, once I execute this maneuver with theoretical perfection :( all subsequent maneuvers that I may choose to execute with (why not if we're talking theoretically still) flawlessness can include one, two, or all the uses of strength, speed, and leverage.;)

Right? I'm I setting up a straw man? Correct me if I'm wrong.

I've read this on a few post and believe its the right idea, namely engaging my antagonist's hands and creating space to effectively continue to make my play. Since my opponent position is what it is, he only leaves his arms exposed to engagement. At least, the only part of his body I can engage where I have a chance to effect the outcome or not play into his devices.

So, I shrug my shoulders, curve my back, and push down with both arms directly into the gap of his gripping hands. Also, I attempt to set one foot between his and plant the other in front.

The reasons are as follow:

The shoulder shrug and back curve make an iota of space, creating the possiblity of slip. Pushing down with my arms should , at least, make the hugger's grip more tenuous because his strength is engaged in pulling my trunk to a cinch horizontally and mine is heading vertically. For example, to pull two strong magnets apart, you could try pulling in direct opposition to their force, but it would be much easier to slide them perpendicularly apart. The feet thing is for stability and all gravy, if he hasn't housted me yet.

To tie this in to PM, an alternate 'creative' application from the opening movement of 7*'s Fan Che sets could be the above. That were I referenced the concept from anyway.

Thanks for the opportunity. Be gentle. :D

Mantis9

[Shadowboxer]

Headbutt and strike the groin immediately when the bear hug has been sensed. Wrap a foot around his and drop your weight by sitting down on that leg trying to break it. You drop your center down (beneath his) and also into him at an angle.
In Aikido, I learned the one seven * referenced that has you step behind quickly and pick them up. It can be done, but you have to practice to make it work. We also practiced just realxing/sinking in response to someone trying to pick you up. It's tricky at first because your natural tendency is to fight it. You can also slip behind with both feet and instead of picking up you trap the foot, then create some body jing with a sharp quick torquing of your hips to disrupt their balance and to create space...add to this striking any openings along the way. How quickly you can move your body with balance was the focus, not moving the other person.
If they control your arms with the bearhug, you can still trap theirs and take a small step forward turn and bow for a hip throw. You have to be under their center though. Shin scrape, foot stomp, headbutt, groin strike are all good for leading his mind for a moment away from what you want to do.

[Merryprankster]

Hand control then hip heist.

The stand-up is the single most effective escape from the bottom of the referee's position in folkstyle (U.S. College/High School) wrestling. What I just said isn't important as it's rife with terminology.

What IS important is that those executing the stand up find themselves in EXACTLY the same position you are describing.

An experienced opponent will use a palm to palm grip to control your hips, with all their fingers together, tight. They will also have their hips in close to you. This allows them to control your hips with body to body pressure in the bear hug. It increases their attack options as well.

Since your assailant requires both grip and hip control to effectively use this attack, it's your job to get rid of it. Otherwise, you are going to have a hard time doing anything. You can choose to eliminate these controls either directly or indirectly. I prefer the direct route, and I do not like pain compliance. Pain compliance is less effective on those who are in an altered state or just plain tough SOB's.

Breaking fingers for instance, won't necessarily force a person to let go. You may just **** them off. Plenty of athletes play hurt. This is no different.

I do not like groin shots/grabs here either. You ever try to grab anything through snug jeans? It's not easy. I don't doubt that it CAN work--however, you're hoping the guy lets go because it hurts. Not my preferred tactic.

1. Get two on one control of his top grip hand. Put one hand on his wrist and squeeze his fingers together with your other hand, hard. This will severely weaken his grip so you can peel it off.

2. Drop your weight. As you drop your weight, you want to push on his hand so his arm is extended and explode your hips out and away from him. This will help with the grip break as it will be your whole body against his grip. When you do this, your upper shoulders/back of the neck area will be leaning on him for support. This slows him down and keeps him from following your hips to try and re-grip.

3. KEEP YOUR GRIP!!! You've isolated one arm now and he will have problems regripping. In the event that you have failed to get your weight on him and he tries to go BACKWARDS so you fall, you're hanging on his arm. Also....

4. You're going to be turning so your chest faces the SAME SIDE as the arm you have as you break the grip. Use your weight on his body as the pivot point to turn on. KEEP YOUR GRIP AND PEEL HIS ARM AWAY. As much of your weight as practicable should be on his arm and it should be as extended as possible. This is going to weight that whole side of his body down, restricting his movement

5. You should be out. You should also have his arm. You have MANY follow-up options from here.

This is just one way, and one I prefer--partly because of my familiarity with it, and partly because I really believe in using tools other than pain compliance to escape these types of situations. I'm not suggesting that other methods DON'T work. I'm just offerring one way that has worked very well for wrestlers--who find themselves in this situation all the time.

And yes, this will work on somebody stronger and bigger than you. Like anything else, you just have to practice it! I was a 160 lbs wrestler in high school and we had a 125 lber who used to stand-up and escape like this from me all the time.

[Knifefighter]

MP has just described in great detail the single most effective escape from this position.

[mantisben]

There is soo much good advice in MerryPrankster's post, I don't know what to include from MerryPrankster's post to comment on. It is all good.

Although I agree that breaking someone's fingers in a fight is not a "show-stopper", I think that breaking someones fingers is in the "direction" of bring things to a close. Broken fingers hurt. Also, it may be more difficult for someone to strike you with the hand with broken fingers.

Still, after reading MerryPranksters post, I HAVE to say that his post is the voice of experience. I could TOTALLY see his solution to the situation that - to me at first - seemed almost impossible to get out of.

Excellent post. Excellent solution.

THANK YOU MERRYPRANKSTER!