Progressive chi sau drills

[Phil Redmond]

Though chi sau and fighting are very different here's an example of how a chi sau technique can be transposed to pre-contact use using progressive chi sau drills.
Click on the quicktime icon at the very bottom of this page.
http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/woodchi.asp#chi

[Ernie]

phil
any crossing hand situation in chi sau should be extended though progession , just extend the lines of attack
now as the lines get out to a certain range more possibilities come up elevation changes , broken rythem , progessive indirect and so on .
but in general anything connected should support a dis connected possibility , if your looking though a combat filter

chi sau of course offers alot more in the aspect of feeling but combativly speaking in the taking of lines and occupying of space and position it all streches out into the real world

isn't that the end goal after all

unless we plan to chi sau our opponents to death :D

[Keng Geng]

Originally posted by Phil Redmond
here's an example of how a chi sau technique can be transposed to pre-contact use using progressive chi sau drills.
That might work on the average joe, not on someone who is highly trained. The problem is right in the chi sau itself. The hand transition from the face on position to the side step has a huge hole. That's not chi sau. Chi sau is not a series of transitions from one position to another. It's using the force that's presented to you.

[Phil Redmond]

I don't know for sure but if you're whipping hand I'll be doing a seminar in Toronto in Feb. Anyone is welcome. Anyway, what you saw was bigger than life for instructional purposes. The hole you speak of can be as small as a pinhead.

[Keng Geng]

Originally posted by Phil Redmond
The hole you speak of can be as small as a pinhead. And my punch can knock anyone out.

[mun hung]

Originally posted by Keng Geng
Chi sau is not a series of transitions from one position to another. It's using the force that's presented to you.

I absolutely agree.

[Phil Redmond]

Keng Geng?
Semantics? Drills are used in many endeavors. Muscle memory is enhanced by doing drills. By drill I mean repetitive movement/technique. I don't mean that chi sau is pre-determined either, but you have to start some where or all you'll have is the flaling hands that some do in chi sau. You said that real combat has no drills? I did many combat drills in the Marine Corps before I went to Vietnam. Practice makes perfect.

[Phil Redmond]

A good example of a "drill" is the lop da exercise. It's done (drilled) over and over until it's second nature.

[Keng Geng]

Originally posted by Phil Redmond
Drills are used in many endeavors. Muscle memory is enhanced by doing drills. By drill I mean repetitive movement/technique. I don't mean that chi sau is pre-determined either, but you have to start some where or all you'll have is the flaling hands that some do in chi sau.I have no problems with drills - they are important. But drills are drills & chi sau is chi sau. What I saw did not exemplify chi sau. Even as a drill - the hole is still there.


You said that real combat has no drills? I didn't say that.

[reneritchie]

Dhira pointed me over to check out what the Straight Blast Gym folks were doing with progressive resistance training. Interesting stuff.

Good luck with the seminar, eh!

[Sandman2[Wing Chun]]

Originally posted by EmptyCup


My thread on this got deleted though I made sure it was following forum rules :rolleyes:



Actually, your thread did NOT get deleted. It (and another one) actually seem to have disapeared due to some sort of technical glitch in the forums, FYI.

If you ever have something that get's deleted, and you're not sure why, please ask about it as there may have been some sort of other problem going on at the time.

[Phil Redmond]

I sent ernie a clip of the technique in real time. Ask him if he thought there was a hole. Hopefully I can post more of them here.

[Ernie]

the clip i got from phil was striaght down the pipe , forward pressure under lop to pak da sequence , center was adheared to and the opponents position was taken , meaning real estate was being eaten up on every part of the motion .
no air space leaks ,

thanks for the clips phil , i've been sitting on my digital camcorder since i shot gary's dvd stuff , maybe i'll get off my butt and shot some stuff and send it your way
:)

[Phil Redmond]

sc_guy has offered to host clips of chi sau "drills" here. I've already sent him two clips of a trap from underneath using a lop.
My students Sifu Carmelino Guiao and our webmaster, Derek Davis are demonstrating. These are simply examples of possibilities I teach at a certain level. Hopefully people will post clips to show other possibilities.
Phil

[Shadowboxer]

Do you have the link to the clips you sent to sc_guy? Thanks and Happy New Year!

[Phil Redmond]

Texas eh? You must be one of Sifu Steve Cottrell's guys that I met at the tourney in Ohio. How's things? If you are who I think you are tell your Sifu I said Hello. He's a really good teacher and a great person. I hope to see him again at the next tournament. Send me your email addy. I send them to you. I have lots of them.
p.s. Happy New Year

[KenWingJitsu]

rene, I'll e-mail you and show you how we've taken that appoach and applied to it WC.

[Shadowboxer]

I'll send you a PM. I'll tell Sifu you said hello when I see him. As far as I know, we'll be back this year too. Things are OK down here. I need another vehicle so I can get back to training with my brothers/sisters. Sure wish I had a dummy and knew the form.
Thanks again.

[Phil Redmond]

Well it looks like this thread is dead. I've view and shared video clips with other outside of the forum. Anyone willing to view or share chi sau video clips please contact me at; sifu@wingchunkwoon.com