Knight vs. Samurai (interesting article)

[neigung]

http://www.thehaca.com/essays/knightvs.htm

[Ikken Hisatsu]

interesting read, and as he says there really is no way to compare the two because of so many variables. there is no doubt that a knights warhorse was larger and more ferocious than that of a samurais, and medieval knights were great horsemen. on the other hand, samurais were adept archers and so in a battle field situation were more flexible than knights. Another interesting question- who would win, a medieval european army, or a japanese army of the same period? The japanese were superb archers, but English longbowmen were also trained from childhood and their bows were of incredible quality. Japanese armies didn't have much in the way of polearms to crush horses and men, however their spearmanship surpassed the average peasant armed with a crude spear by miles. and while an army of europe would generally be far huger, the samurai were known for their ferocity and bravery in battle, and as a whole the japanese armies were far braver in the face of adversity. It would most definitely be an interesting thing to watch.

[Liokault]

If you are talking one on one as oposed to armies the knight would wipe the floor with the samurai every time.

the knight had armour that a katana would not have touched, would have been much bigger, would have constantly fought battles (remember that at the hight of what we think of as the samurai they would have been been at peace for 200 years), would have been at least as good with a sword as a samurai.

Also I seem to remember a historical document linked here last time that this was discused that basicaly said that early european traders who went to japan were not particulaly imperesed with the sword play thay saw. This would have been at a time when every gentleman would have had sword lessions.

[KC Elbows]

Armour is only useful if your opponent does not have the opportunity to circumvent it. One on one battle completely eradicates the advantage of heavy armor.

I question the validity of heavy cav in a one on one battle having any advantage on a more lightly armored foe. Manueverability suddenly comes into play much more, and knights were not meant for such in anything but grail stories. A fighter in heavy armor is highly susceptible to more manueverable foes.

As for the assessment of sword work of one group being analyzed by another, not very reliable. I wonder if the samurai, who also had sword lessons, would have been flattering toward european swordwork in text intended for japanese eyes? Really, battle is a more reliable account, and since there was none, it's somewhat moot.

I think that the knight would lose because he was not meant for that type of battle. I think that, likewise, in full warfare, the knight would win, because he would be fulfilling his role perfectly with no unnecessary added functions added on to his role as heavy cav.

Anyway, I heard both cultures didn't really catalogue and systematize their fighting methods until after they were obsolete due to guns. Is this not true?

[Ikken Hisatsu]

Originally posted by KC Elbows
Armour is only useful if your opponent does not have the opportunity to circumvent it. One on one battle completely eradicates the advantage of heavy armor.

false. the correct has kicked you way out of her building and slammed the door on your ass. a knights armour was designed so that slashing attacks were inneffective, while also allowing them to fight well- knights armour is nowhere near as heavy as we are led to believe, and since knights for the most part were lords, they could afford the best crafted armour available. not to mention that knights themselves were very powerful men and trained their whole lives to fight in this kind of armour. they studied greco roman wrestling and fencing, and to be honest I think they were probably more accomplished swordsmen than the japanese, as they devoted far more time to swordplay and actual battle than samurai did.

[Kristoffer]

wow, u are dumb

[Kristoffer]

The knight would crush those puny rise throwers

[Ging Mo Fighter]

Originally posted by EmptyCup
the japanese would have killed the white man the way they have killed them in cars and electronics :eek:

But white man invented cars, and most consumer electronics
not to mention the main principles of electricity and electrical science as well

(sorry just ****es me off when asians are racist, without understanding that the majority of there economies relies upon the discoveries, creativity and needs of "white man" and "white culture")

[Mr Punch]

LOL at the challenges issued in this thread... you brave champions offering to fight on behalf of the samurai and the knights!? God****it, there are some wierdos round here!!!:D

Dunno where you folks are getting the idea that the samurai didn't actually fight... Or that the Tokugawa Shogunate was the pinnacle of samurai culture. It is widely known as the pinnacle of samurai philosophy, tempered or weakened (depending on your POV) by a couple of hundred years of peace, but hell, the Shogunate had to persuade them that fighting wasn't such a good idea somehow, given that they had been slaughtering each other en masse for the previous 7 centuries since Shotoku Taishi, through Kamakura, through Heike and Genji, to Nobunaga's armies... didn't fight!? To sum it up:
Fat Freddy's Cat
You're -
full -
of -
****!:D :D :D

Read the ****ing article for chrissakes already... which period of knight are you talking about, and which period of samurai...

then you can factor in points such as the best samurai swordsmiths' blades being tested on the best armourer's helmets... before you start wittering on like an old woman about the invincibility of knights' armour...

and such as the samurai cutting style being based largely on aiming for the joints in the armour, much like later knights' own dagger styles...

plus the people criticizing the later samurai sword practice being traders, not being swordsmen.

I've no idea who would win, but I have some idea that some of you have less of an idea of the difference between your arse and a hole in the ground. :D

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by Ging Mo Fighter


But white man invented cars, and most consumer electronics
not to mention the main principles of electricity and electrical science as well

(sorry just ****es me off when asians are racist, without understanding that the majority of there economies relies upon the discoveries, creativity and needs of "white man" and "white culture") You're so dumb you're hurting what's left of the head you've just forced me to cut off.

:eek:

In fact you're so dumb, you don't even get a :D !

[Ging Mo Fighter]

yeah, nice argument

whats that? oh yeah you didn't give one

[Ging Mo Fighter]

I could have said something like

blah blah blah "nuke" blah blah blah Japan

now is "white man" so weak?

but I didn't :)

[Liokault]

Read the ****ing article for chrissakes already... which period of knight are you talking about, and which period of samurai...

Indeed this is the main problem with any argument, but anyway why stop the fun?


then you can factor in points such as the best samurai swordsmiths' blades being tested on the best armourer's helmets... before you start wittering on like an old woman about the invincibility of knights' armour...

Are you telling me that a samurai sword will cut though a metal helmet? Unless the helmet shatters the blade is not going to make much more than a deep scratch on the steel no matter how fine or sharp the blade (unless infanatly fine and shape but thats silly)







plus the people criticizing the later samurai sword practice being traders, not being swordsmen.


Yes they were traders but they would have also been gentelmen and as such would have been proficiant with several differant kinds of sword play.



It should also be noted that samurai is a class of person not a term denoting a sword master (or weapon master). Not all samurai would have joined a school to learn sword play.

Also that the importance of the sword came quite laye in the history of the samurai. Origionaly the weapon of the samurai was the bow (of uneven halfs so it could be used on horse back). The bow was very hard to master so only the samurai had time to learn, and as such proficency with the bow came to be a kind of status symbol. Latter when the carrying of swords was banned to all but samurai class this became the status symbol.

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by Ging Mo Fighter
I could have said something like

blah blah blah "nuke" blah blah blah Japan

now is "white man" so weak?

but I didn't :) And you'd still be a *****. Oh, wait... etc...

I'm not going to 'argue' with you for the same reason that I don't talk to my fridge, or say, the vegetables I'm about to eat.

But by all means, keep coming back with your superior retorts. Then I won't need to provide evidence of you being such a *****. :eek:

[Vash]

Mat,

Why would you want to eat Ging Mo Fighter? That's just silly.

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by Liokault
Are you telling me that a samurai sword will cut though a metal helmet? Unless the helmet shatters the blade is not going to make much more than a deep scratch on the steel no matter how fine or sharp the blade (unless infanatly fine and shape but thats silly)Yep, that's what I'm telling you: kabutowari douzo (http://www.shinkendo.com/kabuto.html) That's a pretty deep scratch!!! :eek:

Yes they were traders but they would have also been gentelmen and as such would have been proficiant with several differant kinds of sword play.Traders are gentlemen?! You've obviously never been to Birmingham! lol :D

I'm afraid, the period when any traders were sword-proficient gentlemen was way after the period when knights were a fighting force. Don't have a net resource handy, but try the first chapter of Eric Hobsbawm's 'Industry and Empire'.


It should also be noted that samurai is a class of person not a term denoting a sword master (or weapon master). Not all samurai would have joined a school to learn sword play. Yep, were it correct or relevant, it should indeed be so noted.

Samurai 'schools' arguably started in the eleventh century with daito ryu and other aikijujutsu schools (which also extensively taught weapon skills); I say arguably, cos somebody did in fact point out to me that all records of this particular school's origin were lost when some castle or other went up in the 19th century. Specific sword schools started with the likes of Yagyu Munenori, Musashi's contemporary (16th C). Before then, sword skills were passed on privately, not in schools at all, and were largely KISS techniques, to be refined in battle.

In fact Musashi always complained about the establishment of large scale schools, preferring to keep the one-to-one tradition and bemoaning large schools' mass teaching.

As for relevance, when were samurai referred to as masters of weapons? And also, were the knights masters of weapons?! I daresay the ones who weren't religious fanatics were often rich inbred French chancers (not that French is an insult of course... :eek: :D ... where is Crimson Pheonix these days...?!)


Also that the importance of the sword came quite laye in the history of the samurai. Origionaly the weapon of the samurai was the bow (of uneven halfs so it could be used on horse back). The bow was very hard to master so only the samurai had time to learn, and as such proficency with the bow came to be a kind of status symbol. Latter when the carrying of swords was banned to all but samurai class this became the status symbol. The samurai of the correct has sliced clean thru your helmet and is kicking your head towards your mom.

From the same article: "During the Kamakura Era, there were many famous swordsmiths (such as Masamune, Muramasa and Sadamune) producing excellent blades. Resultantly, stories and legends arose regarding a nihonto's ability to cut through not only stone, but demons as well!" Legends, but it is fairly obvious that the nihonto had already reached a pretty good level, and one can only assume they weren't given to just any old mug who knew which end to hold. The Kamakura era, incidentally started in 1192. The samurai class was initiated by Shotku Taishi the 800s if I remember rightly, along with the country Japan. Which doesn't make 'late in the history of the samurai'.

Also BTW, I've used both early Tokugawa swords and a 13th C one, and much as I admit I'm no expert on swords, the 13th C one was far superior in balance, weight, and durability.

I still don't know if the knight would have won. I've never worn 70 pounds of armour or swung a ******* sword, or learned the formidable array of techniques and tricks that they used, but I would love to :D.



BTW, however said that knights were much bigger than Japanese people has obviously never visited a 12th C English castle, or a 16th C English manor house... I don't know when Europeans started outstripping SE Asians in height, but I suspect in the last 150-200 years with the onset of industrialization of farming.

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by Vash
Mat,

Why would you want to eat Ging Mo Fighter? That's just silly. Underneath this plain old yet strangly superior calm and ultimately sensible and correct godlike exterior of boyish good looks and charm, I am indeed 'just silly'. But unfortunately, you appear to have me beaten hands down on that front.

[Kristoffer]

since spellin is a sign of intelligence I challenge anyone here to respond to me in swedish. ****ers

[Kristoffer]

:D

[Chinwoo-er]

Oh come on, everyone knows that the Chinese is going own BOTH the samurai and the knights.
Why ?

Cause THEY HAVE KUNG FU !!!!!

Bwahahahahahahaha

~holds hand over ears and screams~
"I don't hear you ! I don't hear you ! I don't hear you ! ...~

[KC Elbows]

Originally posted by Ikken Hisatsu


false. the correct has kicked you way out of her building and slammed the door on your ass. a knights armour was designed so that slashing attacks were inneffective, while also allowing them to fight well- knights armour is nowhere near as heavy as we are led to believe, and since knights for the most part were lords, they could afford the best crafted armour available. not to mention that knights themselves were very powerful men and trained their whole lives to fight in this kind of armour. they studied greco roman wrestling and fencing, and to be honest I think they were probably more accomplished swordsmen than the japanese, as they devoted far more time to swordplay and actual battle than samurai did.

So, you've worn authentic western armour? I found it cumbersome, but then, I only tried three suits, and I was no expert. As for their heaviness, there are more than a few known cases of knights drowning in them. And the knights that fought most were those who needed land, and so their riches are often exaggerated. It's not a reality that all western armour was fine in quality at all.

No matter how much you train in armour, it does nothing but minimize the disadvantages of said armour, and loss of mobility is one such weakness. If mounted cavalry were not so effective, there would have been no good reason for the knight's armour. That's what it was designed for. As for the training time and battle comments, are you suggesting that japan was a place of utter peace? I didn't think so.

"The correct" doesn't have anything to do with "versus" threads. Try to keep that in mind. Also, don't you feel that giving the correct her own building is a little silly? It seems the correct has taken your metaphor, spread butter all over it, and played Last Tango in Paris for all to enjoy.

In warfare, mobility usually meant victory. Samurai are more mobile, so one on one, the samurai has that edge. The armor makes it more difficult, but hardly impossible, considering what other posters have mentioned regarding the samurai blades geared for attacking the joints. Regardless, if the knight is toppled, the knight is dead against mobile opponents. It was the knight's charge that was to be feared, not the knights milling about individually. If the knight connects, the knight wins, but he carries a slower weapon, has much lower mobility, and so is less likely to connect. One on one combat with armored knights is the stuff of King Arthur stories, not reality. educated nobles knew to charge, and then cut down the battered remnants.

As for the training regimen, all knights did not have a standard regimen during the period when they were most at war. In both japan and europe, last I knew, documenting fighting methods usually came when those methods crossed over into hobbydom, and out of urgent usage. I could be wrong, but that seemed to be the consensus last I read up on it.

[Liokault]

Mat

Hineno style black lacquer helmet (dated 1573-1602). Would a lacquer helmet be metal? I am not sure but the helmet cutting demo was deeply rediculouse! The gash in the helm was 13 cm but with the curvature of the helmet how far would the blade really have gone into the guys head though that?

More damage would have been done to the guys neck vertabre being crushed rather than from any cutting. Thats if you can get a guy to sit on the floor and brace his head to replicat this test.


I'm afraid, the period when any traders were sword-proficient gentlemen was way after the period when knights were a fighting force. Don't have a net resource handy, but try the first chapter of Eric Hobsbawm's 'Industry and Empire'.


Indeed the periods are differant but this example was as close as I could get to people from the 2 cultures.



In fact Musashi always complained about the establishment of large scale schools, preferring to keep the one-to-one tradition and bemoaning large schools' mass teaching.

So what Mushashi and you are saying is that the standard of training amoungst samurai was varied? glad you agree with me.


As for your other points.

I did not say that samurai did not use swords in the same period that they used bows, I said that the bow was the status symbol.

As for how big europeans were at this time! I think that the aristocracy that made up most of the knights had as much food as they liked and as such were bigger than you might imagian.
Also the profesional soldiers would have been picked for being big guys and would have mostly been heavly built 6foot plus guys.

Who was the Russian tzar who had a regiment of giants, most of whom were close to 7 foot?

[Merryprankster]

A lacquered helmet is basically varnished leather.

Not even close to a metal helmet.

I find the arguments about Samurai vs. Knights on the battle field similar to the arguments about Horse Cavalry vs. Tanks. Both the Polish Cavalry and the U.S. Cavalry argued that tanks, with their low speed and inability to maneuver were no match for horsemen. We all know how that turned out--keep in mind I'm talking about VERY primitive tanks--and those were still way better than horse

In short, there is NO comparison. On the battle field, with a similar sized army, assuming that each side was competent in their respective methods, the western army wins 99% of the time. Samurai were no match for western mounted heavy cavalry. Japanese armies had no answer for western tactics because, with the relative scarcity of metal, they never had to deal with it.

Individually, who knows? As armies, not even in the same league.

[SifuAbel]

Are you talking guns vs. spears?

[SifuAbel]

OMG! Can this thread get any more retarded?

You know who would win? I'll tell you, The Miami Dolphins.

And if not the Dolphins then the Cowboys.

Or Maybe even Homer Simpson.

[Liokault]

OMG! Can this thread get any more retarded?

Can anything get anymore retarded than one internet nerd calling another internet nerd retarded?

[SifuAbel]

I guess this is just a giant cluster**** of nerdisms.


Sing it, people!!

Miami Dolphins, Miami Dolphins
Miami Dolphins #1


Miami Dolphins, Miami Dolphins
Miami Dolphins #1

[Liokault]

Miami Dolphins? What is this Miami Dolphins? Are you a sea wolrd fan or something?

[KC Elbows]

Originally posted by Liokault
Mat
As for how big europeans were at this time! I think that the aristocracy that made up most of the knights had as much food as they liked and as such were bigger than you might imagian.
Also the profesional soldiers would have been picked for being big guys and would have mostly been heavly built 6foot plus guys.

Who was the Russian tzar who had a regiment of giants, most of whom were close to 7 foot?

I think you'll find the vast majority of authentic armour from the periods in question to be well under 6'.

[Christopher M]

http://www.thehaca.com/Videos/NTCvids/testingbladesandmaterials.htm

[Ging Mo Fighter]

4 inventions vs 4000

im so beat....

*****.

[KC Elbows]

Christopher M. just made me want to BBQ.

[Chang Style Novice]

I dunno about Knights vs. Samurai, but I do know that Inspector Gadget would kick the sh!t out of the 6 Million Dollar Man.

And that is about as relevant to any of our current martial practice as knights and samurai.

[Ging Mo Fighter]

Originally posted by EmptyCup
those fours were the PILLARS that upheld all other inventions. They were important in ushering in the age of invention and science.

EC = 1 GMF = 0

Then they lost the ball?

the English took over nearly ALL of the world

they raped pillaged and destroyed and that was withing 200 years so they are superior

first man in space : white

first man on the moon : white

first man on mars : most probably white

oh yeah, most composers : white aryans
inventer of antibiotics (biggest medical achievment to date) : white

Top UFC fighters : white

language you are speaking : english

richest man in the world : white

most powerful nation on earth : mostly white

inventer of the nuclear bomb : white

inventer of stealth technology : white

inventer of democracy : white

Best Actors all white

Best sports : created by whites

I could go on...

ging mo fighter : 999999 EmptyCup : 1

[Archangel]

Wow... Look what this thread turned into; this is truly disgusting.

[Ging Mo Fighter]

how did the clock, compass, gunpowder helped China when the english decided they wanted to turn it into a massive opium den?

white people ushered in the most powerful society on earth, that of the Western world

all white martial artists should have as much respect in their own vast and impressive history as they do have respect for their asian counterparts

[Toby]

GMF, I hope for your sake that your sifu and sigung don't read these forums :eek:. That's some bad attitude you're showing :mad:.

[DragonzRage]

Ging Ho Mo Fighter

I pity you. You are obviously someone with one hell of an identity crisis going on. You train in a style that would have you prance around in silk pajamas imitating animals and burning incense when you should be riding around on a horse wearing a white sheet over your head and burning crosses. Maybe you can start a new KKKung-fu style and be the Grand Dragon Master. As an Asian, I must confess my great fondness of a couple white man inventions you forgot to mention: boxing and wrestling. In fact, I'd love to use both of them to cave your face in you closet racist little $hit.

[Mr Punch]

Tanks vs Cavalry, true, and good analogy so en masse prob Knights over Samurai. I was talking one on one, and I still don't know.

Height of Knights; check suits of armour, clothes, tombstones, doorways, from virtually any period before the mid eighteenth century. You're still wrong! are we having fun yet?! :D

Dolphins vs Homer... Homer for entertainment value, dolphins for the length and versatility of their *****es... oh Miami Dolphins!? :eek:

Sword vs helmet... the kabutowari was also often against iron helmets... plus most helmets had some kind of decoration which good give the blade purchase (and much armour too). Chris M that site rocks! :D

Gung Ho Mo vs the rest of KFM... like I said let him post, you don't even have to answer, and he'll prove himself to be the ***** that he is.

edit: since when has ***** been a rude word? I can understand it censoring *****, except when it occurs in a sentence with Mo in it.

[Liokault]

On the height of europeans.

I culled this from Sword forum internatonal.

"For the record, I am reposting the results of a study, The Anglo-Saxon Cemetery at Empingham II, Rutland, by Jane R. Timby, PhD., Oxbow Monograph 70, 1996.

On page 26, she has a table , "Table 9 Distribution of adult stature (cms)" which shows that they found 27 adult male skeletons with a Mean height of 174cm (5'9") and a Range of 161cm - 185cm (5'4" - 6'1") and 30 adult female skeletons with a Mean height of 164cm (5'5") and a 152cm - 179cm (5'0" - 5'10"). For reference, they include the mean heights for 5 other sites and for modern British adults which are all but one over 170cm (5'7") for men and right around 160cm (5"3") for women for the sites and 174cm and 161cm for modern men and women, respectively (5'9" and 5'4"). The largest number of adults, over half, were in the 18 - 25 year old category and there were only 3, one man and 2 women over 45 years old. This does not speak well for the life expectancy of the time and place."


So of the 27 tested the height was 5'5 to 6'1....not so differant to today?

These guys were just normal folks as well.

Also from the same site.

"In An Invitation to Old English and Anglo-Saxon England (a book that I highly recommend for anyone who wants to learn a little Old English the fun way), the heights 6'4" and 6'6" are given for two male skeletons in some cemetary or another. I read it and went one before doing a sort of mental double-take."


And also from the same site.

[Ging Mo Fighter]

didn't know i said anything racist?

infact i was countering the racism that someone pasted earlier

saying that japs will beat "white people" - "as usual"

get your facts straight before laying down accusations you dumb seppos

[Archangel]

EC,

It was you that brought race into this and the first one to use the term "superiority" when talking about products. Joking or not, don't tell me you haven't realised that using that word will pi$$ a lot of people off.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by SifuAbel
I guess this is just a giant cluster**** of nerdisms.


Sing it, people!!

Miami Dolphins, Miami Dolphins
Miami Dolphins #1


Miami Dolphins, Miami Dolphins
Miami Dolphins #1 Maybe a Shula-coached Dolphins team with the No-Name Defense could win, but the current Wanstedt incarnation would probably choke in the last 2 minutes of the battle.

[kwaichang kaned]

Liokaults right.

People think that the medieval european knight was short because of the armour that survives in stately homes and castles to this day.

Infact that amour is only for show and could never survive a real battle basically it was a way to say "look how wealthy i am" it was never intended tto be worn.

But to cut the cost of making the armour it was made a couple of inches smaller all round giving the impression that the person who wore it was small.

Nobility well infact well feed and exercise so the average height of a knight wasn't much different to that of a normal man today.

Good armour as worn by nobility was made to measure to improve movement and get a good fit (otherwise a strike to the helmet would be like putting a bucket on your head and smacking it with a shovel) with an average weight of around 90-100lbs but this was distributed fairly evenly around the body infact an
infantry soldier today carries more weight in his bergan.

So well made armour did very little to limit the movement (although the field of vision was limited by the helmet) but this sort of quality was very very expensive. A good suit of amour anda well made sword would cost a lord the equivilent of the purchase price of an 3bedroom house in todays market.

This is why when ever knights fought each other .They would rather take a fellow knight hostage for the ransom their family would pay to have them returned than kill them on the feild.Their lifestyle were very expensive .Particularly if they were on campaign (men ,horses to feed etc)

This has all been gleaned from various books ,documentries etc i have read/watched.Im no expert!!

[Ford Prefect]

Knights don't get much respect from the martial arts community, but truth be told they had rather extensive fencing schools that covered the sword, pole-ax, spear, etc. They also had a quite evolved martial arts training regimen that was comprised mostly of wrestling, submission type holds/joint locks, and dirty tricks. They fought often both on the battlefield and in the tourney jousts and grand melee's, and they were backed up by the english long bow in battle. I wouldn't know "who's better" and I doubt that anybody could provide a valid argument either way. I do know that the knights were badasses though. Strong, tough, well-trained, and well-practiced.

[MasterKiller]

I saw an SCA guy with a wooden sword beat a TKD teacher with a wooden katana once. The TKD teacher kept dropping his katana.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
I saw an SCA guy with a wooden sword beat a TKD teacher with a wooden katana once. The TKD teacher kept dropping his katana.

Yeah, but he was TKD. For this test to be objective, he must study Iado or Bushido or something like that. Jeez, MK, can't you come up with reliable arguments? :D

[stimulant]

Im not so sure about the knights, but a lot of english bow men were around 6' (many bigger), as they need to be big powerful men to draw the strong back on the Long bow (arrows could pierce armour from over a mile away!). some of the bows were 6' in height themselves.

but knights horses were the best. Shire horse (biggest and strongest breed of horse in the world) were breed to be the mounts of knights. They had to be strong to hold the barding (horse covering / horse armour) and the weight of the knights and their armour and weapons.

kights were good....but too slow in all that armour and not enough mobility in my mind to beat a samurai.

[Liokault]

Shire horses are massive (we have a few round here) but are not aggresive atall. I wonder just how far shires are from war horses?

[KC Elbows]

Ever see Lipazahners(spelling way off there). There's a troup of them that travelled the country two years ago, they still are trained in all the combat moves(kicks and such). They were pretty amazing horses.

[Ging Mo Fighter]

i've got no fixation on race until you brought it up

[kwaichang kaned]

Stim,

the optimum range of an english long bow was around 300 yrds,nowhere near a mile and at that range it could not pierce armour.
Not to suggest that a bow couldn't pierce armour.it could but at a shorter distance and the arrow had to carry a particular type of bodkin. Also the arrow had to strike at a 90 degree angle to pierce armour. Thats why plate armour late in the 1300's started to become curved on the breastplate.Then arrow blows were deflected away.

Infact the longbowmen were trained to aim for gaps in the armour.a good bowman could put an arrow through the eye slits in an helmet at 50-100yrds.These men were exceptionally strong.they had to be the bows had a pull of around 180-200lbs.The equivilent of lifting a grown man with one arm. with a fire rate of 10-12 arrows a minute.Each one accurate. thats no mean feat!

The horses a knight rode was called a destrider.(shire horses were a later introduction from .....hollywood because they looked the nearest thing)desended from Norman warhorses they tended to be quite squat and broad which made them strong .

OK open your books at page 47 and copy chapters 3 and 4
(steps off lecturn)

[anton]

Originally posted by Ging Mo Fighter


first man in space : white

A purely political stunt. At the time there were many other scientific achievements that the money could have been spent on.


first man on the moon : white
The American equivalent of the above example. Same cmments apply. Similarly, millions were spent on the development of the "space pen", while the russians just used a pencil.


first man on mars : most probably white
really not sure what you base this on. A manned mission to Mars is still some time away.


oh yeah, most composers : white aryans
Correction: Most composers of Western music = Westerners.... duh who would've guessed.


inventer of democracy : white
Several modern historians are questioning all the things said to have originated in Greece. It seems that while the Greeks were the first to formalise many things, they actually borrowed much from eastern/middle-eastern civilisations.


Best Actors all white
Best actors... this is subjective. Most popular actor does not mean best actor


Best sports : created by whites
Soccer, probably the most popular ball-game int eh world is said to have originated in China.



ging mo fighter : 999999 EmptyCup : 1
GMF = racist


Emptycup was talking about products produced by different countries (in a clearly joking tone). This thread is about military strategies produced by different countries. Both things evolved largely as a result of economic developments, local environments and historaical accidents. One can compare them without having recourse to racial comparisons. When people start to make comparisons of races based on a number of extremely diverse factors (scientific superiority, musical superiority, fighting ability, acting ability etc...) the only possible implicit argument is that one race is superior to another. Clearly an argument that is necessarily racist. This is confirmed by the use categorisations such as "Aryan" (perhaps innocent when used by itself, but in the current context clearly telling of the true opinions of the individual).


Also whoever posted implying that the word "superior" is racist - that's pure bs. When not used in the context of race, the word is not loaded at all. If I say Japanese cars and stereos are superior to those made in America, but inferior to European-made ones, there is nothing necessarily racist in my comment.

[anton]

Originally posted by EmptyCup
- the Greeks did not invent the Pythagoran Thereom or Pi. Egyptians had that for the Pyramids created 3600 BCE (though some say 10 500 BCE). The Greeks also made their maps off earlier Sumerian/Mesopotamian seafaring maps. They were not the first seafarers. Their myths were also based on Mesopotamian deities/pantheon.
There's a good book about this stuff... I think it's called somehting like The Shape of Ancient Thought... or something like that.



P.S.

anton is my alter-ego :D [/B]
Actually I am a mass hallucination. A figment of YOUR imaginations, brought about by years of repressed memories of traumatic childhood events. :D.

[Archangel]

Empty Cup,

I did misquote you; you never used the term superior (too manu vodka tonics I guess). But let's go back to your original statement.

"the japanese would have killed the white man the way they have killed them in cars and electronics"

If you would have said American or European the statement would have been fine. You instead use the term "white man" which obviously did have a racial intonation joking or not and will rub people the wrong way.

[Ging Mo Fighter]

agreed, im glad someone else agrees with me

[Archangel]

GMF,

Don't think that I am taking your side on this. Empty Flowers "joke" about products was certainly in bad taste and confrontational but your rebuttal was just blatantly racist. I have to ask you... what in the h e l l were you thinking when you wrote that?

[Ging Mo Fighter]

I dont remember saying anything racist at all, I was just proving you wrong, in which case you are lashing out by calling me "racist"

on a partially similar line, you can quote me in saying "you are an ass wipe" end quote. :D

[Ging Mo Fighter]

yeah ok ass wipe :D

p.s. I stand by all previous comments i've made as being both true and honest, including the one about you being an ass wipe :cool:

[Robbie]

Originally posted by anton
[/b]
The American equivalent of the above example. Same cmments apply. Similarly, millions were spent on the development of the "space pen", while the russians just used a pencil.


Urban Myth
And do you know how dangerous a piece of graphite from a broken pencil tip could be in space?

[joedoe]

Originally posted by Robbie


Urban Myth
And do you know how dangerous a piece of graphite from a broken pencil tip could be in space?

It could poke your eye out? :D

[Liokault]

Is there going to be a billion dollar mars pen project?

[stimulant]

if there really do send some people to mars (4 years there, 4 years back, plus time there), can I nominate all of shaolin-do?

[Liokault]

I dont think that a man will walk on mars in my lifetime.....but a pen that could write on mars, now that would be a sight to behold!

Anyway back to the thread.

Would a mars pen be mightier than a samurai sword?

[anton]

Originally posted by Ging Mo Fighter
yeah ok ass wipe :D

p.s. I stand by all previous comments i've made as being both true and honest,

I, for one, don't doubt it and won't argue with most of them (apart from the one about music and acting). Its the contention underlying the comments that's making people uncomfortable.

[diego]

Originally posted by Ging Mo Fighter


But white man invented cars, and most consumer electronics
not to mention the main principles of electricity and electrical science as well

(sorry just ****es me off when asians are racist, without understanding that the majority of there economies relies upon the discoveries, creativity and needs of "white man" and "white culture")

yah but if the asians invented shiat they would have used principals of yin/yang and our earth wouldn't be so pollutted!.

score for the yellowskins:o

[KC Elbows]

http://www.airtoons.com/toons.php?toon=12

:D

[Whoseyourdaddy]

ahh who gives a crap, every culture has contributed to modern society (except the japanesse). Well, i never considered Japan the most original culture...i mean, b4 they were copying Westerners they were copying the Chinesse. I even heard the the Martial arts of Japan, including Kendo, evolved off of Kung-Fu, and that the katana was just an enhanced version of a Chinesse sword.

Ohh, and for the guy that said the Chinesse invented the printing press, thats wrong. The printing press was invented by Johannes Gutenburg during the Renassance, but..... to defend your point, he was influenced by Chinesse inventions. (i beleive the clock and the compass are wrong too,) You are thinking about the stamp, which was invented by the Chinesse, and how the crap did u forget to put down that the chinesse invented paper.

Well, contrary to popular belief, the knights used a pretty advanced fighting method, and the movements of a knight were very similar to that of a Kendoist.
If you are interested in how knights fought, here are a bunch of videos. A group that specializes in recreating the fighting methods of the knights of late medieval/early renasiance, by looking at historical fighting manuals that still exist today.

http://www.thearma.org/Videos/TPVideos.htm

Well, who would win in a fight, the Kinght or the Samurai? Not sure, i read the article. You heard of John Clements (also the guy that wrote the article), about a decade ago he entered an open weapons martial arts tornoment using the Longsword techniques the Knights used, most of the people there were Kendoists. Many of the competitors were overconfindent that their Eastern Martial arts were better then anything this guy knew. When the tornement started, John Clements took the floor and won 1st place. Everyone was shocked. I know its not much, but this is probably as close as we'll get to Knights vs samurai argument.

Of course, this was without armor, so im not sure if the knights armor in battle will be a will be an advantage or a disadvantage, and im pretty sure the katana is an all around better weapon. So who would win.............?

ahh screw it, just get a Ninja and he'll kick both of their asses.

[Liokault]

Originally posted by Whoseyourdaddy
ahh who gives a crap, every culture has contributed to modern society (except the japanesse). Well, i never considered Japan the most original culture...i mean, b4 they were copying Westerners they were copying the Chinesse.

Nope, the contribution that the Jap made was taking a good idea and making it work on a big scale.

Cars that start every day, are cheep and last more than 1 year are a jap invention.....who cares that they didn't invent the first car.


Originally posted by Whoseyourdaddy
Ohh, and for the guy that said the Chinesse invented the printing press, thats wrong. The printing press was invented by Johannes Gutenburg during the Renassance, but..... to defend your point, he was influenced by Chinesse inventions. (i beleive the clock and the compass are wrong too,) You are thinking about the stamp,

Wrong again

See the chinese were the oposite of the Japs.

They invent a a clock that works.....way before anyone else......but they can not see a use for it as china is a "perfect" society and the only time that matters is the emporers....and he dont need a clock to regulate him.

Same with the printing press. They invent it, then are to turned into them selfs to see a use.

Same with tons of things, like gun powder (they invent the first canon, but mostly make fireworks) even exploration.....they sent a big expedition right along the coast of africa (some say at other times they even went to america) that could have made them much richer and given them a proper empire, but they decided that what was out side of china was below them and could be of no worth.........so we Brits took most of it over, then turned the Chinese into opium addicts because we knew the worth of trade and expantion.


For most of civilised history china was way in the lead but they they lost the plot and it has taken them 100's of years just to get back into the game.

[Whoseyourdaddy]

Whoa whoa whoa, first off, everyone makes cars better then americans, hahahah, not just the japaneesse, I admit, the Japanesse are good at reliability , just like Italian cars are fast and German cars are excellent at handling and sweedish cars are good at safety etc.....but whats your point? Lets face it, EVREYONE makes better cars then america, so its not really a big innovation. Cars and cellphones are not america's strong point. We are much more stronger with computers, space, medicine, etc.

Cars that last more than a year a japanesse invention? hahahah, thats funny, ohh, and the Ford Model T, first marketable car for everyone and a very reliable car, even to this day. way b4 japanesse even knew how to make a car.....jebus

Well, take a computer for example, no matter what brand u buy it from, (european, american, japaneese) most of the parts in it are american designed, including the processor itself (intel). NOt to mention the whole software is designed by Microsoft. Last i checked, computers are more advanced then cars. I guess Dells (american company) being the known as the best and most reliable computers out there helps too. I mean, dont exagerate with the car thing, americans cars, on average, last about 120,000 miles. Toyota/Mercedes, about 150,000 miles, its not a huge leap.

And how the hell do u invent exploration, lots of cultures have explored the seas......(vikings, egyptians, native americans....)mankind has been exploring the seas ever since we all looked like monkeys. lol

Listen, the Printing Press was invented by Gutenburg, its just about in EVERY history book, what are u talking about...
And, your making it sound like im anti-chinesse, for yoru information I am part chinesse and love chinesse culture, i know they've played a big role in modern society, and im proud of that. but im not going to see historical innacuracies and not say anything, unless every history book is lying to me, the printing press was invented by Gutenburg, end of story, look it up if u dont believe me.

[Whoseyourdaddy]

you know what?? now that i think about it, i could care less who invented what...

The only reason why i posted here is because i wanted to know who would win in a fight...

An Knight or a samurai or a zulu monkey or a rabbi? HUH?!!! who would win, seriously

[apoweyn]

It's an unanswerable question. And computers should probably generate an error message (accompanied by a loud buzzing noise) every time someone types in any variation on the X vs. Y question.

[Whoseyourdaddy]

your silly......You should have answered Zulu monkey.....

[Liokault]

Originally posted by Whoseyourdaddy

Cars that last more than a year a japanesse invention? hahahah, thats funny, ohh, and the Ford Model T, first marketable car for everyone and a very reliable car, even to this day. way b4 japanesse even knew how to make a car.....jebus

..... americans cars, on average, last about 120,000 miles. Toyota/Mercedes, about 150,000 miles, its not a huge leap.

And how the hell do u invent exploration, lots of cultures have explored the seas......(vikings, egyptians, native americans....)mankind has been exploring the seas ever since we all looked like monkeys. lol

Listen, the Printing Press was invented by Gutenburg, its just about in EVERY history book, what are u talking about...



American cars only last 120000 miles because jap they have to compete with jap cars....its the same the world over guy. I am sure that amerian car manufacturers would be only to happy to produce huge tanks that did not have to last much more than a year as the customer is encouraged to trade in every year.

LOL then 20 odd years ago people started buying hondas that lasted 10 years with out seeing a garage, started every morining, could do 45 mpg ans were small enough to parek anywhere......and they did it cheaper than US cars.....good bye US car industry (infact lots of world wide car industrys).



P.S History of the printing press. (http://www.dotprint.com/fgen/history1.htm)


China = 1041ad

Germany = 1436 ad

[Whoseyourdaddy]

Originally posted by Liokault







P.S History of the printing press. (http://www.dotprint.com/fgen/history1.htm)


China = 1041ad

Germany = 1436 ad

Wow. i read it and it was intersting, i guess that means u are right concerning the printing press. I guess i'll have to get a new history professor.....(although if you want to make an argument dont pick out bits and pieces of what i said, u didnt comment about the exploration or computers)

but......

dude, i was talking about Americas domination in the computer market, the car was invented a hundred years ago!

Computers, Space > Cars, Cd players

btw, open up your Japanesse cellphone, CDplayers, or other electronics, and see how many of the parts their are American designed....who is building off who? The Ps3 for example, will be powered by an Intel processor when it comes out

andamerica didnt even invent the car!! and No your wrong, america had to compete with the world, not just Japan. Euro cars were already producing cars 10 times more reliable the US cars before Japan knew how to make one. and plus Plus, GM motors, is the highest selling car company in the world, so when u say every car company is falling, that is also false. and plus,everyone knows american cars suck!! when did i disagree with u on this!!

Japan was never trying to beat america, it was trying to beat Mercedes, the most reliable car on the market at the time your thinking about. To this very day, Toyota, the most reliable Japanese car on the market, is no more reliable then a Mercedes. And ive driven both, and dude, Mercedes handle a hell of a lot better then anything Toyota has produced. Also, Saturn, and American company, has just as good of a reputation as Toyota, the only problem is their cars are ugly

Another thing I would like to point out is that NOT all Japanesse cars are reliable. Japanesse Sports Cars break down no better then an American Sports cars, not to mention they are hell of a lot more expensive, the Corvette, is the fastest car in its class, and is much cheaper then anything Japan has near that speed. Their reliable cars such as the Camry or Civic are not very fast for their class...and if u wanted to soup them up, (using parts and body kits made by non-japanesse companies btw) the reliability goes WAY Downnnn.

[Liokault]

Ok, first of all, if you make huge posts I will only pick out a few parts to reply to.....if I feel like replying atall.

1/ Its only you talking about computers.....its like your suprised that America is good at anything.......of so you make good computers. BTW and getting back to how you started this, America didn't invent computers, they just took a good idea and ran with it......like the jap's are so good at doing.

2/ My cellphone is not japenese. But all 3 upgrades that I have put on my currant PC have been from a jap company.

3/ GM can produce as many cars as it like. Now what it would REALLY like is to make a profit on each one.....which it cant.

4/ Merc's are indeed good cars and may match toyotas for reliability but how do they compair on price?

5/ Corvette may well be the fastest car in its class.....sadly out side of america, where roads have corners instead of just a grid work of straights the corvette inability to go round said corners at any form of speed stopped it selling in any numbers.....plus its ugly, go compair one to a TVR tuscan (or any TVR) or lotus elise.

[Whoseyourdaddy]

Ok, now we are getting somewhere, and making more sense.

1) No, i didnt say that just because im surprised that America is good at anything, be honest, how much sense does that make? im just making a point that computers are more advanced then cars, i thought u were going to reply to it, so i kept saying it until u did, which u finally did. If america didnt invent the computer, who did? There was an idea something that was similar to a computer in Germany b4 the computer was made.....but thats it. all it could do was compute numbers, did not pioneer to what we now know is a computer. Which also, because of America, it turned in the PC, not germany.

2) Name of company please? and what did u upgrade? i know Nvidiia makes upgrades for graphics cards, but that is an American company. Also, putting upgrades made by a Japanese company was your choice, so i dont see a point.

3) Actually, the numbers were based on cars sold....which are highest.

4)your right, they are a hell of a lot more expensive, but they have other advantages, first off many people think they look better, they are generallly safer, they handle better, and their fast cars still fairly reliable, though toyota cant say the same thing for its sports cars. Also, Satuns, are on average cheaper, even without those silly tariffs.

5) Of course its ugly compared to those cars, why would i compare it to Euro Exotics. its still a lot cheaper then those. Those brit cars u mentioned are worse in reliability then american cars, the elise is slow as hell for its ridiculous price.

[ironmantis3]

LoL! This is rich! I'd like to personnally thank the two of you for giving me something to do on a real boring day at work. Now I'd like to comment.

1)What difference does it make which is more advanced. One is works based on physical mechanics the other is an electronic device. But I will say a computer is used in everything now days including cars so maybe...

2)I live in Japan and the computers you can buy here are American made for the most part.

3)I don't care about number of cars sold cuz I just would like to be able to afford one!

4)I had a '71 Ford that was stipped down and rebuilt for drag racing that smoked just about everything American, Japanese, Portugese or Vietnamese it didn't matter. But my friend '71 454 Corvette Stingray was the fastest car in town. However as I said I live in Japan and Toyota Soarer comes stock model V6 Twin Turbo. I've seen one ez pushing 230 k/h. Thats about 150 m/h. And it was still accelerating. I didn't get to see what it topped off at cuz we were too busy getting away from the Japanese police. Illegal night racing is not just some stereotype, its big time here!
This particular night there were about 100 cars.

5)As far as car reliability goes. Japanese cars sold in the US are different than Japanese cars sold in Japan. Different legal requirements as well as different driving conditions exist. Not all roads in Japan are all curvy however many of the straight one do have many lights. So mostly its stop and go here. More so than in the U.S. And cars get much less driving on them cuz most things here are so close. In America there are zoning restrictions keeping stores and such away from homes. Here its not so strict. Everything is very close. A lot like in those old Godzilla movies, LoL! Its like this, my '94 Toyota Curren has about 65,000 kilometers on it. That's like 40,000 miles. Name a ten year old car you've seen in the states with less than 90,000 or even 100,000 miles on it. So the driving here is very different. And I should also say that the highest speed limit I have seen here was 80 k/h. That's like 45 or 50 m/h. And that's a rarity. The average is 40 k/h. Around 20-25 m/h.

But back on the original topic. Who cares about a Knight vs Samurai. It was obvious the guy who wrote the article was a little bias. Besides, a chinese warrior beat samurai in many duals. And all those different blades he said a knight had exerience against, the Chinese had that and more. Look at all the things we use in Kungfu. Lets see what his armor does against a bowl and chopsticks, but seriously though...
And don't forget that the Europeans did have a tough time against the Indians even with their firearms. So the real question is who would win? A kung fu choppin' Chinaman or a whooping tamahawk throwing Indian?

[Whoseyourdaddy]

Originally posted by ironmantis3


But back on the original topic. Who cares about a Knight vs Samurai. It was obvious the guy who wrote the article was a little bias. Besides, a chinese warrior beat samurai in many duals. And all those different blades he said a knight had exerience against, the Chinese had that and more. Look at all the things we use in Kungfu. Lets see what his armor does against a bowl and chopsticks, but seriously though...
And don't forget that the Europeans did have a tough time against the Indians even with their firearms. So the real question is who would win? A kung fu choppin' Chinaman or a whooping tamahawk throwing Indian?

Yeah, well, it seems that China has better martial arts styles then anything Japan has produced. More techniques, greater variety of weapons, and more acrobatic.

Some history teacher told me that the Indians did a lot better against the Americans the the Chinesse did against the Brits. Is this true? cause im not sure...

if it is, my money is on the tamahawk throwing Indian.

[norther practitioner]

Yeah, well, it seems that China has better martial arts styles then anything Japan has produced. More techniques, greater variety of weapons, and more acrobatic

What makes them better, more weapons, acrobatics, # of techs....

or the people...


or the effectiveness

How long until someone is effective..


Read through the boards some.

[Whoseyourdaddy]

Originally posted by norther practitioner


What makes them better, more weapons, acrobatics, # of techs....

or the people...


or the effectiveness

How long until someone is effective..


Read through the boards some.

What? A ninja will kill all!!! You know why, cause he knows ninjitsu......which makes him fly through the air like superman! Im serious.....

[Liokault]

Originally posted by Whoseyourdaddy

If america didnt invent the computer, who did? There was an idea something that was similar to a computer in Germany b4 the computer was made.....but thats it. all it could do was compute numbers, did not pioneer to what we now know is a computer.


LOL all ANY computer does is compute numbers

The British invented the computer in its modern incarnation.....all the Americans did was put it in the form of the PC and sell it.



Originally posted by Whoseyourdaddy

2) Name of company please? and what did u upgrade? i know Nvidiia makes upgrades for graphics cards, but that is an American company. Also, putting upgrades made by a Japanese company was your choice, so i dont see a point.

Sony


Originally posted by Whoseyourdaddy

3) Actually, the numbers were based on cars sold....which are highest.

No point selling cars if you are not making a profit on them.






Originally posted by Whoseyourdaddy

5) Of course its ugly compared to those cars, why would i compare it to Euro Exotics. its still a lot cheaper then those. Those brit cars u mentioned are worse in reliability then american cars, the elise is slow as hell for its ridiculous price.

Well as I am a "Euro" they are not Exotic to me. Elise is really common and TVR if fairly common over here. As for relative reliability.....well Yank cars have a poor reputation over here and thats all I have to go on as you see so few purly Ameican cars.

The elise is less than half the price of the Corvette you mentioned and even though it is not as fast its ability to go round corners makes it much more desirable. TVR range from much cheaper to about the same price as the Corvette and tend to be a bit faster.

[Whoseyourdaddy]

Originally posted by Liokault



LOL all ANY computer does is compute numbers

The British invented the computer in its modern incarnation.....all the Americans did was put it in the form of the PC and sell it.






nononono, the English tried to invent the electronic calculator, The British guy Charles Babbage, left his work with the caluculator unfinished. A calculotor is not a computer....If the british invented first computer, I could go all the way back in time and say that the Abucus was the first computer (which, could be a interesting argument)

The Americans invented the computer as we perceive it today. In 1942, John P. Eckert, an American, invented the modern computer, which could do more then simply add and subtract. The Americans took the idea of the calculator and made it into the Computer. It was a huge leap for its time, not a simple rehash of the same invention that was slightly more reliable. (Kinda like the TVR compared to the Corvette, its still the same **** invention all over again)

[rubthebuddha]

FYI -- american cars are NOT as good as toyota, and neither are most german cars. porsche tops the list, but they only sell 55,000 cars per year. toyota sells more than 1.8 million. that's a little more difficult to do quality control, but yet, they still do it.

read up if you want a clue. jd power does the most extensive auto surveys, so you should start with them (http://money.cnn.com/2003/07/08/pf/autos/bc.autos.durability/?cnn=yes).

[Liokault]

And yet in the UK in 1941 we built Colossus, the first "real" electronic computer.

Also Babbage did indeed invent ineffect a computer. Just one on a VERY small scale, but one that uses the principles that are still true today.

AND you still seem to be kind of confused about what computers really do.....they are in effect just maths machines, they just add up data and subtract data and multiply data........just like did calculators.

Computer history (http://www.cyberstreet.com/hcs/museum/chron.htm)

I am not going to post anymore on this thread as you (Whoseyourdaddy) do not seem to be making any real point.....and are really contradicting your self.

[Whoseyourdaddy]

Originally posted by rubthebuddha
FYI -- american cars are NOT as good as toyota, [/URL].

When have I said American cars are better then Japanesse cars???(actually, if u scroll up, I said multiple times that they are not), I said that Japans Sports Cars, although still well-made, dont live up to the quality of their Compact and Luxery cars..

[Kuen]

A 15th century knights armor can withstand a shot from a .45 caliber handgun and although it would be dented enough to serously damage the wearer there is no penetration.

Samurai wore armor too, of leather and chain mail and big unwieldy helmets

Slicing through the metal of a knights helmet for a test is rediculous since it is the shape of the helmet which gives it it's strength more so than the thickness of the metal.

Knights where versed in a wider variety of weapons than the Samurai. Such as crossbows, long bows (150lb pull no less), daggers, halbreds, pikes, spears and firearms. Knights also practiced grappling and ground fighting while in armor and usually with a mizericore which is a long dagger made to slip between gaps in armor. The knight had enemies from multiple cultures, met multiple fighting styles and borrowed some from each. The Samurai were big fish in a little pond using their skills on each other and the peasentry.

[rubthebuddha]

WYD,

1. i wasn't specifically addressing you. if i wished to, i would have put your name or initials in the message like i did in this one. the term FYI means "for your information," or to serve for informational purposes for anyone reading.
2. the spelling of "whoseyourdaddy" is a question asking, "to what person does this 'your daddy' belong?" try again next time with "who'syourdaddy"

[Whoseyourdaddy]

Originally posted by rubthebuddha
WYD,

1. i wasn't specifically addressing you. if i wished to, i would have put your name or initials in the message like i did in this one. the term FYI means "for your information," or to serve for informational purposes for anyone reading.
2. the spelling of "whoseyourdaddy" is a question asking, "to what person does this 'your daddy' belong?" try again next time with "who'syourdaddy"

1. ahh i see, i wasnt entirely sure myself, that why i wanted to clear that up, simple misunderstanding.
2. or better yet, like many people who make their forums names, perhaps I grammatically misused on purpose. hmmm.......interesting

[Liokault]

Originally posted by Whoseyourdaddy


1. ahh i see, i wasnt entirely sure myself, that why i wanted to clear that up, simple misunderstanding.
2. or better yet, like many people who make their forums names, perhaps I grammatically misused on purpose. hmmm.......interesting


Interesting in what way? Definatly not in the standard way, which would imply that it would holds someones interest.

[Whoseyourdaddy]

Originally posted by Kuen
A 15th century knights armor can withstand a shot from a .45 caliber handgun and although it would be dented enough to serously damage the wearer there is no penetration.



Are you sure? (this is by no means an attack, just seeing if u can confirm this) After all it was recorded in the battles betwwen the Mongols and the Knights that the Mongol defeated the Knights (well, everyone) using their superiors archery on horse skills (something the Europeans never had), circling around them or retreating and shooting them from behind (mongol horses, though smaller, were faster) Some battles were one without the Knights raising a single sword. Of course, at this time almost all Knights wore chainmail, im not sure if the Mongols would have pierced through full plate armor.

[Whoseyourdaddy]

Originally posted by Liokault



Interesting in what way? Definatly not in the standard way, which would imply that it would holds someones interest.

You again? Ok, i figured it out....you simply want to disagree with everything I say for the sole purpose of driving me insane (well, its working)... for Gods sake, i cant even talk to someone else without u attacking me....arghh!

[Liokault]

:rolleyes: No wyd I only disagree when you are being stupid.

If you look at This thread (forums.swordforum.chttp://om/showthread.php?threadid=14280&highlight=bullet+withstand)

You will see that the question of guns v arnour is not straight forwards.

There is evidance that breats plates were shot with black powder hand guns from 1400's (it says in the text....I have only ever seen spanish conquestidor era armour with shot proof before) as proof of there capabilities.