Tiger/Crane

[cerebus]

Here's something I've been wondering about for awhile. In Northern Chinese Kung Fu, the set Tan Tui is sometimes practiced as a style in and of itself containing kicks, strikes, sweeps, throws & joint locks. Apparently this was not (and is not) uncommon in China (I've heard it said that some of the top fighters in the old days were Tan Tui stylists), even though many here in the U.S. look upon Tan Tui as being a basic or foundational set. I have also heard of Southern style practitioners training only one set (specifically Tiger/Crane) as a system in itself. It seems to me that this could be a very viable method of training. All the techniques that one might need seem to be found within the set (taking into account that, when actually fighting, you will only use a small number of techniques that you know very well). What are people's thoughts on this?

[David Jamieson]

Well, I think that many kungfu practitioners have one or two sets that they use continuously while they only maintain the rest just to be mindful of them.

I myself practice only a couple of sets with regular frequency. The rest I just practice once in a while in order to remember them.

I also break down the sets I have and extrapolate techniques that way as well. These extrapolations become drills and forms unto themselves when you take it out of a set and drill it.

cheers

[WanderingMonk]

Kung Lek,

This topic remind me a question that I asked you a while back and your reply wasn't too clear or maybe my question wasn't pharse clearly. so, I am going to ask again.

I read you know black tiger school's version of tiger & crane form. How different is the black tiger's version from the hung gar's fuhok ("tiger and crane double shape")? did they start as the same form?

thanks.

wm

[David Jamieson]

Hi WM-

In the black tiger I learned, the tiger / crane is two forms, one tiger, one crane, each is played by one person and it is a matching set.

I understand that there is a two man matching set for tiger crane in some lineages of hung gar as well, but I am uncertain if it is same as the two sets from black tiger.

cheers

[WanderingMonk]

Originally posted by cerebus
Here's something I've been wondering about for awhile. In Northern Chinese Kung Fu, the set Tan Tui is sometimes practiced as a style in and of itself containing kicks, strikes, sweeps, throws & joint locks. Apparently this was not (and is not) uncommon in China (I've heard it said that some of the top fighters in the old days were Tan Tui stylists), even though many here in the U.S. look upon Tan Tui as being a basic or foundational set. I have also heard of Southern style practitioners training only one set (specifically Tiger/Crane) as a system in itself. It seems to me that this could be a very viable method of training. All the techniques that one might need seem to be found within the set (taking into account that, when actually fighting, you will only use a small number of techniques that you know very well). What are people's thoughts on this?

Cerebus,

I am going to act as a parrot:

SC_guy wrote that any good system should really have about three sets. 1. basic, 2. intermediate, 3.advanced.

SC_guy also wrote elsewhere that he had 30 forms from Long fists and in his early day it was really frustrating. He didn't want to spend the time to do all thirty forms, but if he didn't he would forget them. But, if he did, he couldn't get good at applying the techniques.

One day, GM Chang told him that form was to teach the basics. If you want to learn advance stuff, you have to practice the techniques and only the techniques. Then, GM Chang demonstrate one of the SC's form and then applied the technique in the form. In the application, the stance was actually different from the form. After that, SC_guy stop worrying about forms.

By the way, fuhok (tiger and crane, intermediate) has about 100+ postures/techniques and taming tiger set (foundation set) has also 100+ technique/postures. In some karate system, each of these two forms would be a system all to itself.

so, to answer your question, you need a technique that you practice one thousand times and can apply under almost any circumstance and not one thousand technique for one thousand circumstance. But, the beauty of a system with one thousand technique, you have plenty of selection to choose from to find the one that's best for you.

wm

[WanderingMonk]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
Hi WM-

In the black tiger I learned, the tiger / crane is two forms, one tiger, one crane, each is played by one person and it is a matching set.

I understand that there is a two man matching set for tiger crane in some lineages of hung gar as well, but I am uncertain if it is same as the two sets from black tiger.

cheers
Hi Kung Lek,

got it. thanks.

wm