What's the TRUTH about Sonnon's style?

[Shinobi22]

I'd like the help of the board experts here on my first post. I tried posting this over on Sonnon's forum (http://www.circularstrengthmag.com/forum), but I didn't receive a satisfactory reply.

I'd like to know from REAL people and not paid endorsements people who have trained with Scott in his style of Russian martial art. Is this legit or is it just some composite of rehashed traditional martial arts with a scientific spin?

Don't get all in a huff. I'm not a troll, but I call it like I see it. Who here has actually seen Scott fight and who here has actually fought him? If he can't fight, then in my opinion it's all just smoke and mirrors.

I'd like to hear REAL practical applications people have made from personally studying under him, not any evangelical praises about a large vocabulary.

Last question. What can I learn from Scott that I can't learn from someone else and paying my annual dues for my library card? Is there ANYTHING unique about Scott's style, or is it all just repackaged?

I have to admit I'm getting quite annoyed with this Russian martial arts mystique with the special forces card played way too much, the no-touch psychic combat, Sombo wrestling (it's a fricking SPORT!), weird movement, contradictory breathing, faith healing, remote viewing, causing sleep, and of course pseudoscientific jargon everywhere. I'd like to know about hte MAN not the madness. What's the REAL story on the guy?

Flocks (and emphasizing FLOCKS) of his students talked about how hes the biggest baddass but none could answer how what he does is unique and what he could teach that an authentic master does not.

I respect candor and honesty which is why I do not wear gloves when I ask questions. I expect the same in return.

Domo,
Shinobi

[Merryprankster]

Despite the goofy beard, I have heard nothing but good things about Sonnon. I'd not confuse Sonnon's thing and what some other russian guy is teaching tough re: the psychic stuff.

As far as Sombo being a SPORT. Well, first and foremost, feel free to step up unarmed to an excellent (ie, placed in some hefty sized tournaments and beat some notables) wrestler/boxer/judoka sometime and see how you fare.

Secondly, Combat Sombo WAS developed for combat. It's rather well documented and well regulated as far as advancement and what not.

I can't really speak to anything else.

[Shinobi22]

I don't care if Scott was a world champ in a SPORT. I know a soccer world champ and he couldnt fight his way out of a brothel. Rules are rules. Can he fight when there's no ref to protect him, heh? That's the whole point. Oh Ive seen "combat sombo". It looks like pitiful daito ryu.

No Im not mixing him with others. On his own forum he talked about his upcoming dvds called "Shadow Work". He and all of these Russian martail arts "commandos" seem to elevate themselves to Yuri Geller status. I want to know if Scott can actually walk the walk, say when Randi's watching. ;)

[Merryprankster]

I don't care if Scott was a world champ in a SPORT. I know a soccer world champ and he couldnt fight his way out of a brothel. Rules are rules. Can he fight when there's no ref to protect him, heh? That's the whole point.

Not knowing anything about Scott, I couldn't tell you.

Again though, I urge you, in a no-rules environment to say, pick a fight with a member of the Iowa wrestling team perhaps. Your opinion on sport may change.

Or may not.

[Suntzu]

obviously the only answer you want to hear is that his stuff su(ks… his style sucks…… well his fashion sense isn't the best in the world that is for sure…I think the whole 'Russian Martial Art mystique' os you put it is no different than the whole 'ancient chinese secret'... the US SEAL team secret... etc... people want to identify with SOMETHING 'secret *shrug*... in my personal training i have adopted some of his protocols and solo movement training with some sucess i suppose... from some of his writings and videos i have had some "ah ha!"... moments... i would advise those who had a few extra $$$ laying around to invest in some of his videos( they are EXPENSIVE but i ain't mad at him )... as his stuff being re-hash... what isn't really... and if i could come across 'his' stuff in the library... someone point me in the direction... really... but i find videos easier to go back and review.....

[Shinobi22]

MP, I doubt that any wrestler would have a chance against a well trained martail artist on the street. I'm not talking about a four cornered ring.

Suntzu, I see you are just another Sonnon cronie since you even QUOTE him in your sig. Please. If you havent fought him you just dont know do you? Im not flaming you, but you havent answered my question have you.

Yes I think that I could go to the library and just flip through books on anatomy and physiology and tag those onto my tradition training to do what he did. Im looking for someone to explain what is unique that I could NOT do that.

[ShaolinTiger00]

the psychic stuff.

SYSTEMA.

[Suntzu]

the trolling quality has gone down hill in the new year.....

my understanding of the'psychic stuff'... was stuff pertaining to dealing with stress responses... projecting, i don't know, confidence(like "i know i can kick your azz so i'm not worried and it's written all over my face")... posture and the like.... or maybe chi-blasts migrated to Russia via the silk road *shrug*

[Merryprankster]

MP, I doubt that any wrestler would have a chance against a well trained martail artist on the street.

Well, there's only one way for you to find out, isn't there?

[Pork Chop]

LOL @ Suntzu = a Sonnon cronie

"What up cronie?"
"Bout to go chill wit my cronies and plot the overrun of the MA video industry.."
"Lock that sh*t down?"
"You know it... gonna do my cronie thang"

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Shinobi22
I don't care if Scott was a world champ in a SPORT. I know a soccer world champ and he couldnt fight his way out of a brothel. Rules are rules. Can he fight when there's no ref to protect him, heh? That's the whole point. Oh Ive seen "combat sombo". It looks like pitiful daito ryu.

Oh dear - There's the sport/combat thing again. If you think something that's trained for sport can't be used in a fight, go try them.

[Suntzu]

:D
did we make the best of thread....... that was masterful work....

[lkfmdc]

I am truly disappointed at the low level of trolling the forum has experienced lately, we need some real high quality trolls soon or this forum will become a place for educated and polite exchanges on serious subjects, oh the horror!!!!!!! :p

Sonnon isn't the one pitching the mind tricks BS, that is SYSTEMA, though some people in SYSTEMA say the mind tricks BS aside the actual technique is good... who knows really?

Sonnon IS one of the foremost authorities on Russian MARTIAL ART and Sambo is indeed MARTIAL ART. I suggest you find some former KGB Sambo guys and tell them how they are just puny sport players :eek:

Sonnon is also very skilled

I've only met the man in person twice, but I can tell you he is the real deal

[rogue]

Hi KKM!:D

[apoweyn]

Shinobi22,

Couple of things. (More like four actually.)

1) If you're going to claim that you're looking for an objective opinion on a given matter and that you're open to said opinions, putting a little frowny face next to your question has a way of making you look like you've already decided.

2) Dismissing anybody that says anything good about Sonnon only reinforces that fact. You wanted to hear from people with direct experience of Sonnon or his material. And then you berate someone for illustrating a direct experience of Sonnon or his material.

3) Anybody using a screen name connected with the dread ninja should probably be guarding their own glass house before berating everyone else for buying into mysticism.

4) Claiming that any 'well trained martail artist' could beat any grappler on the street is also buying into mysticism. See #3. If you want to convince this crowd, follow your own reasoning. How many wrestlers have you beaten on the street? How many boxers? Thai boxers? Judoka? Samboists?


Stuart B.

[Merryprankster]

I might also point out that you are prejudging Sonnon based on what you hear--and then berating those who have told you they've heard good things for not actually KNOWING because they haven't crossed his path.

[Pork Chop]

is martail related to retail?

[Ford Prefect]

I obviously know this is a troll post (and a poor one at that), but I'll answer for anyone genuinely interested.

I've never rolled with Scott or seen him fight, so I'll take it straight from a strength & conditioning POV. Scott does produce some unique material and a lot of Sonnon's material that is not unique is explained very well by Sonnon and could only increase one's understanding of it.

Personally, I like that he has brought back club swinging to the general internet public and his joint ROM stuff is excellent. I've purchased and viewed quite a bit of his material and I've always come away with new concepts or a new way of looking at old concepts.

Do I think his methods are the end-all, be-all? No. You could go through your life and athletic career with success and good health without Sonnon. (especially if you read a lot of other material) That being said, I think he could add a good deal to your repetoire depending on your goals.

He is definately over-hyped by the over-the-top marketting, but that type of marketting is just par for the course in this internet age. Nobody is going to stop by your site if you are being humble or even realistic about things. This same type of over-the-top marketing also ensnarls the weak-minded in some weird fantasy world, so that's why you see Sonnon fanboys, Pavel fanboys, Vunak fanboys, BJJ fanboys, etc etc.

[Shooter]

Scott and I have had some very heated differences in the past. I've never spent a dime on any of his materials, have never seen any of his videos, and have never trained with him. Just so you know I'm not a 'cronie' or a disciple.

I've never communicated with a more intuitive or selfless individual in my life.

Who cares how good his skillz are? (from all reports, very solid) I've seen first-hand what he's done for others, and it's beyond what most coaches are capable of. He's a coach's coach - someone who can make everyone their own, best coach and trainer. He helps people create positive internal dialogue through breath and movement, and shows them how to direct the positive energy which results from that. He uses martial art as a vehicle for people to develop personal greatness.

As a martial artist, Scott's got a depth that few people have the intelligence to fathom.

[Oso]

Nobody is going to stop by your site if you are being humble or even realistic about things.

{sobs gently into hunny pot}

[Oso]

Scott and I have had some very heated differences in the past. I've never spent a dime on any of his materials, have never seen any of his videos, and have never trained with him. Just so you know I'm not a 'cronie' or a disciple.

I've never communicated with a more intuitive or selfless individual in my life.

Who cares how good his skillz are? (from all reports, very solid) I've seen first-hand what he's done for others, and it's beyond what most coaches are capable of. He's a coach's coach - someone who can make everyone their own, best coach and trainer. He helps people create positive internal dialogue through breath and movement, and shows them how to direct the positive energy which results from that. He uses martial art as a vehicle for people to develop personal greatness.

As a martial artist, Scott's got a depth that few people have the intelligence to fathom.

dammmm...


I don't even know who Sonnan is but I'd say:

Thread Closed.




Shinobi22 = owned.

oh, wait...

Shinobi22 = own3d

that's not right, is it?

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Ford Prefect
I obviously know this is a troll post (and a poor one at that), but I'll answer for anyone genuinely interested.

I've never rolled with Scott or seen him fight, so I'll take it straight from a strength & conditioning POV. Scott does produce some unique material and a lot of Sonnon's material that is not unique is explained very well by Sonnon and could only increase one's understanding of it.

Personally, I like that he has brought back club swinging to the general internet public and his joint ROM stuff is excellent. I've purchased and viewed quite a bit of his material and I've always come away with new concepts or a new way of looking at old concepts.

Do I think his methods are the end-all, be-all? No. You could go through your life and athletic career with success and good health without Sonnon. (especially if you read a lot of other material) That being said, I think he could add a good deal to your repetoire depending on your goals.

He is definately over-hyped by the over-the-top marketting, but that type of marketting is just par for the course in this internet age. Nobody is going to stop by your site if you are being humble or even realistic about things. This same type of over-the-top marketing also ensnarls the weak-minded in some weird fantasy world, so that's why you see Sonnon fanboys, Pavel fanboys, Vunak fanboys, BJJ fanboys, etc etc.

Now that's a great post. I particularly like the last bit.

[joedoe]

Hey Serp, how have you been?

[Machine_Phantom]

hes a master who abandoned his padawans
is what i heard since i came here like on my first days on this forum
some guys told me: "see that guy, hes serp, he abandoned his padawan kid"
i thought like "daymn, son"

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Oso
Shinobi22 = own3d

that's not right, is it?

That's an acceptable spelling. You could also have said 0wN3d, 0wnd, or ownd.

If you want to be extra cool, you could even say pwnd.

[BentMonk]

I have not personally met Sonnon, but train with someone who has. What Sonnon brings to the table is legit by all accounts. His fight creds are easily available. His clubbells, Pavel's kettlebells, and the training behind them are great for any athletic training. I've been training with kettlebells for about 6 months, and have noticed dramatic strength improvements. Does this mean I've abandonded any other good training stuff? No. Does this mean that I think Sonnon is some kind of all knowing fitness guru? Nope. He's a good motivator with a solid background who is over hyped. The one major problem I have with the guy is that if you go to his forum and disagree with, or criticize ANYTHING there, you will be immediately banned. IMO anyone worth listening to should be able to handle opposing oppinions, constructive criticism, and even the occasional troll. :D

[rogue]

What's the deal with pwnd?

[bob10]

"I'd not confuse Sonnon's thing and what some other russian guy is teaching tough re: the psychic stuff."

What psychic stuff is that?